Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12676 alt.alien.visitors:11000 sci.skeptic:34037 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!aplcen.apl.jhu.edu!uars_mag!roelle From: roelle@uars_mag.jhuapl.edu (Curtis Roelle) Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: Sender: news@aplcen.apl.jhu.edu (USENET News System) Organization: Johns Hopkins University References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <69301@cup.portal.com> <69354@cup.portal.com> Date: 12 Nov 92 21:03:42 GMT Lines: 8 John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >... Her name is Sharula and that is the same name as a star >in the Scorpius (sometimes called Scorpio) constellation. ^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Scoropio is not a constellation; it is an astrological sign. We realize you are unable to distinguish between astrology and astronomy John, as well as your other problem with fantasy V. reality. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!ukma!news From: uk01719@nx28.mik.uky.edu (Tracy D. Kilroy) Subject: Re: Bill Clinton and UFOs? References: <1dp7qoINNlh8@clover.csv.warwick.ac.uk> <1992Nov11.140037.25069@netcom.com> Nntp-Posting-Host: nx28.mik.uky.edu Message-ID: Organization: University Of Kentucky, Dept. of Math Sciences X-Path: nx28.mik.uky.edu!uk01719 Sender: news@ms.uky.edu (USENET News System) Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 23:25:32 GMT Lines: 16 In <1992Nov11.140037.25069@netcom.com> rkrouse@netcom.com (Robert K. Rouse) writes: | President Carter said that he saw a UFO with some other people |but skeptics say that he saw Venus. Ronald Regan said that he |saw a UFO from Air Force One but no one took it seriously because |Regan often said things that didn't make sense. I was informed that Carter asked some government officials for the records of UFO research to be released but his request came back denied, and they would not even let him see any documents they had. Tracy University of Kentucky uk01719@mik.uky.edu Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!news.cs.indiana.edu!umn.edu!staff.tc.umn.edu!gslars From: gslars@staff.tc.umn.edu () Subject: Re: Bill Clinton and UFOs? Message-ID: <1992Nov12.235958.21692@news2.cis.umn.edu> Sender: news@news2.cis.umn.edu (Usenet News Administration) Nntp-Posting-Host: staff.tc.umn.edu Organization: University of Minnesota References: <1dr8h8INNavk@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> <1992Nov12.041403.16826@netcom.com> <1992Nov12.152620.8391@odin.corp.sgi.com> Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 23:59:58 GMT Lines: 17 In article <1992Nov12.152620.8391@odin.corp.sgi.com> rodb@slugo.corp.sgi.com (Rod Beckwith) writes: > >Mabye the Authors of the FAQ could put together a PETITION for all >interested in this group, possibly others, to send to Pres-elect Clinton. >What do you all think? I think a lot of this depends on whether the president is even "in the loop" so to speak. If presidents are routinely given what the government knows about UFOs, then it would take a major briefing session with him, which probably hasn't occurred yet. My own guess is that they are only partly privy to what's going on. They're given enough disinformation to convice them that secrecy is essential at all costs. But it would have to be information that's consistent between administrations. But what happens when the president gets too pushy for hard facts and first-hand knowledge? Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!linac!att!bu.edu!dartvax!kip-sn-73.dartmouth.edu!Dr.Death From: Dr.Death@kip-sn-73.dartmouth.edu (Dr. Death) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: HUH? Message-ID: <1992Nov12.232901.4967@dartvax.dartmouth.edu> Date: 12 Nov 92 23:29:01 GMT Sender: news@dartvax.dartmouth.edu (The News Manager) Organization: X-had-King-Killed Lines: 1 X-Xxmessage-Id: X-Xxdate: Thu, 12 Nov 92 17:28:31 GMT X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d11 HUH? Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!linac!att!bu.edu!dartvax!kip-sn-73.dartmouth.edu!Dr.Death From: Dr.Death@kip-sn-73.dartmouth.edu (Dr. Death) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: HUH? Message-ID: <1992Nov12.233103.5155@dartvax.dartmouth.edu> Date: 12 Nov 92 23:31:03 GMT Sender: news@dartvax.dartmouth.edu (The News Manager) Organization: X-had-King-Killed Lines: 1 X-Xxmessage-Id: X-Xxdate: Thu, 12 Nov 92 17:30:25 GMT X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d11 HUH? Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!darwin.sura.net!jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu!fmsrl7!lynx!zia.aoc.nrao.edu!pharden From: pharden@zia.aoc.nrao.edu (Paul Harden) Subject: Re: NASA SETI Efforts Message-ID: <1992Nov12.222608.20648@zia.aoc.nrao.edu> Organization: National Radio Astronomy Observatory, Socorro NM Distribution: usa Date: Thu, 12 Nov 92 22:26:08 GMT Lines: 41 Steve Gilbert (sgil@netcom.com) writes, in part: >the NASA SETI initiative that was due to start scanning the sky for >radio signals from other stars. ... Yesterday, in the current >edition of 'Science News', I saw an article that implied that the >program had, in fact, started. It specifically mentioned that the >Arecibo radio telescope and the VLA were involved. ^^^^^^^^^^^ The above cited article appears in SCIENCE NEWS, November 17, 1992, Vol. 142, No. 19, page 317 entitled *Is there anybody out there?* The article specifically mentions Arecibo, and to a lesser extent Parkes Radio Telescope in Australia. IT DOES NOT SPECIFICALLY MENTION THE VLA ... and for good reason: the VLA is not engaged in SETI research, nor involved with the NASA SETI effort in any way. The VLA (Very Large Array) radio telescope is a National Radio Astronomy Observatory facility located near Socorro, New Mexico. It consists of 27 88-ft. diameter dish antennas forming a wye (Y) configuration. Each leg of the wye is about 12-mi. long. We are currently in the A-configuration, meaning we are employing the full 12-mile lengths of the arms, yielding a field of view of a few tenths of an arcsecond. This extremely narrow field of view, combined with the nature of the electronics and data processing techniques, makes the VLA unsuitable for a general sky survey. Scientists and astronomers from around the world submit proposals to use the VLA instrument, and observing time is granted based on the merit of the proposal. SETI requests are considered with the same scrutiny as anyother experiment proposal. There have been very few proposals for SETI work over the past 10 years, due primarily to the unsuitability of the VLA for this type of work. Paul Harden (pharden@nrao.edu) National Radio Astronomy Observatory Socorro, New Mexico 87801 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!rsoft!mindlink!a3241 From: Gregory_Nouch@mindlink.bc.ca (Gregory Nouch) Subject: UFO's Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 04:54:05 GMT Message-ID: <17420@mindlink.bc.ca> Sender: news@deep.rsoft.bc.ca (Usenet) Lines: 25 Here it is loud and clear! I won't go wandering around the subject i'll stick to it and get straight to the point. I think 99% of what you guys supspect to think are aliens are false alarms or a hoax created by someone to get a quick laugh. There's so many possibilities on what they could be. I think most of the reports on UFO's being sighted are most lickley "Top Secret" aircraft tests from the gouverment. If you look at it most of the sightings are all in 1 area. I mean people think aliens are stalking the area, there's also a possibility that there's one guy in the area that made a habit of hoaxing people. I'm not narrow minded or anything, I have my 100% beleifs that were not the only place in the galaxy with living organisms on it. I just think we as humans need more proof then we already have. I just want to make one thing clear. I'm not saying that there is no E.T's visiting our planet. I'm just saying in my own humble opinion that it's unlickly. I know some people in this area will get a little jumpy over what I said I just wanted to express my own opinion. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12683 alt.alien.visitors:11007 sci.skeptic:34064 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Space Craft From Other Plants Message-ID: <69419@cup.portal.com> Date: Thu, 12 Nov 92 21:43:56 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Nov11.151619.21039@engage.pko.dec.com> Lines: 4 Dear People: I am surprised that a person made the observation about us giving contellations and planets names. Kelvin Rowe says his space friends don't refer to planets by names but by their orbit. John Winston. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12684 alt.alien.visitors:11008 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Pee Wee's Pyramid Message-ID: <69420@cup.portal.com> Date: Thu, 12 Nov 92 21:51:49 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <64264@cup.portal.com> <69280@cup.portal.com> <69355@cup.portal.com> <97306@netnews.upenn.edu> Lines: 3 Dear Pyramid Folks: Remember these conventional scientist aren't planning to leave till May of 1993. John Winston. Xref: icaen alt.conspiracy:19883 alt.alien.visitors:11009 alt.conspiracy.jfk:3812 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!ukma!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!cleveland.Freenet.Edu!aq817 From: aq817@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Steve Crocker) Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy.jfk Subject: Re: JFK and BUSH Date: 13 Nov 1992 06:29:32 GMT Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA) Lines: 336 Message-ID: <1dvi0dINN6u8@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu Had a copy of the following article on my disk and thought it would be relevant. -Steve Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1991 20:15:34 CDT Reply-To: Rich Winkel Sender: Activists Mailing List From: Rich Winkel Subject: George Bush and the Kennedy Murder The following article was written by Paul Kangas for the Realist. The Kennedy Assassination The Nixon-Bush Connection? By Paul Kangas A newly discovered FBI document reveals that George Bush was directly involved in the 1963 murder of President John Kennedy. The document places Bush working with the now-famous CIA agent, Felix Rodriguez, recruiting right-wing Cuban exiles for the invasion of Cuba. It was Bush's CIA job to organize the Cuban community in Miami for the invasion. The Cubans were trained as marksmen by the CIA. Bush at that time lived in Texas. Hopping from Houston to Miami weekly, Bush spent 1960 and '61 recruiting Cubans in Miami for the invasion. That is how he met Felix Rodriguez. You may remember Rodriguez as the _Iran-contra_ CIA agent who received the first phone call telling the world the CIA plane flown by Gene Hasenfus had crashed in Nicaragua. As soon as Rodriguez heard that the plane crashed, he called his long-time CIA supervisor, George Bush. Bush denied being in the _contra_ loop, but investigators recently obtained copies of Oliver North's diary, which documents Bush's role as a CIA supervisor of the _contra_ supply network. In 1988 Bush told Congress he knew nothing about the illegal supply flights until 1987, yet North's diary shows Bush at the first planning meeting Aug. 6, 1985. Bush's "official" log placed him somewhere else. Such double sets of logs are intended to hide Bush's real role in the CIA; to provide him with "plausible deniability." The problem is, it fell apart because too many people, like North and Rodriguez, have kept records that show Bush's CIA role back to the 1961 invasion of Cuba. (_Source: The Washington Post, 7/10/90_). That is exactly how evidence was uncovered placing George Bush working with Felix Rodriguez when JFK was killed. A memo from FBI head J. Edgar Hoover was found, stating that, "Mr. George Bush of the CIA had been briefed on November 23rd, 1963 about the reaction of anti-Castro Cuban exiles in Miami to the assassination of President Kennedy. (_Source: The Nation, 8/13/88_). On the day of the assassination Bush was in Texas, but he denies knowing exactly where he was. Since he had been the supervisor for the secret Cuban teams, headed by former Cuban police commander Felix Rodriguez, since 1960, it is likely Bush was also in Dallas in 1963. Several of the Cubans he was supervising as dirty-tricks teams for Nixon, were photographed in the Zagruder film. In 1959 Rodriguez was a top cop in the Cuban government under Batista. When Batista was overthrown and fled to Miami, Rodriguez went with him, along with Frank Sturgis and Rafael Quintero. Officially, Rodriguez didn't join the CIA until 1967, after the CIA invasion of Cuba, in which he participated, and the assassination of JFK. But records recently uncovered show he actually joined the CIA in 1961 for the invasion of Cuba when he was recruited by George Bush. That is how Rodriguez claims he became a "close personal friend of Bush." Then "officially" Rodriguez claims he quit the CIA in 1976, just after he was sent to prison for his role in the Watergate burglary. However, according to _Rolling Stone_ reporters Kohn & Monks (11/3/88), Rodriguez still goes to CIA headquarters monthly to receive assignments and have his blue 1987 bulletproof Cadillac serviced. Rodriguez was asked by a _Rolling Stone_ reporter where he was the day JFK was shot, and claims he can't remember. George Bush claims he never worked for the CIA until he was appointed director by former Warren Commission director and then President Jerry Ford, in 1976. Logic suggests that is highly unlikely. Of course, Bush has a company duty to deny being in the CIA. The CIA is a secret organization. No one ever admits to being a member. The truth is that Bush has been a top CIA official since before the 1961 invasion of Cuba, working with Felix Rodriguez. Bush may deny his actual role in the CIA in 1959, but there are records in the files of Rodriguez and others involved in the Bay of Pigs invasion of Cuba that expose Bush's role. The corporations would not put somebody in charge of all the state secrets held by the CIA unless he was experienced and well trained in the CIA. (_Source: Project Censored Report, Feb 1989, Dr Carl Jensen, Sonoma State College_). Recently I interviewed former CIA liaison officer L. Fletcher Prouty. He is a consultant for the excellent new movie on how the CIA killed JFK, being made by Oliver Stone. He told me that one of the projects he did for the CIA was in 1961 to deliver US Navy ships from a Navy ship yard to the CIA agents in Guatemala planning the invasion of Cuba. He said he delivered three ships to a CIA agent named George Bush, who had the 3 ships painted to look like they were civilian ships. That CIA agent then named the 3 ships after: his wife, his home town and his oil company. He named the ships: Barbara, Houston & Zapata. Any book on the history of the Bay of Pigs will prove the names of those 3 ships. Again, this is more finger prints of George Bush's involvement in the Bay of Pigs invasion. Yet Bush denies his role in this great adventure. Why would Bush be so shy about his role in this war? What is the secret? Is there something dirty about this war that Bush & Nixon don't want the public to know about? Answer: Yes there is. The same people involved in the Bay of Pigs were the people involved in the Watergate burglary. Why was the Watergate burgalarized [sic]? The CIA was trying to plug up a possible news leak. They were trying to stop the Democrats from publishing the photos of Hunt & Sturgis under arrest for the murder of JFK. May 7, 1977, SF Chronicle. Presently, there is a law suit attempting to force the government to release the records about the Bay of Pigs invasion. Why are those documents still secret? Why are they locked in the National Archives along with all the photos from [the] Dallas assassination of JFK? Why are the 4000 hours of Watergate tapes in which Nixon is babbling about the mysterious connections between the Bay of Pigs, Dallas and Watergate also being sealed in the National Archives? Is it because all three incidents are connected? Yes. We must demand the secret files on these 3 cases be released now. For a copy of the petition to release the files, please write to: Paul Kangas, private investigator, POB 422644, SF, Ca 94142. Thanks to Oliver Stone's blockbuster new movie on JFK there is now sufficient national movement to reopen all these cases. The White House fears Stone's new movie so much that they have hired more CIA journalists to slander the movie & Stone. Don't fall for it. Every serious investigator now agrees that Oswald did not shoot JFK. That James Earl Ray did not shoot Dr. Martin Luther King and that Sirhan Sirhan did not shoot Robert Kennedy. These cases must be reopened so that Sirhan and Ray can be set free. The only bar that keeps Sirhan in prison is the tremendous anti-arab racism in Americans: in both blacks & whites. According to a biography of Richard Nixon, his close personal and political ties with the Bush family go back to 1941 when Nixon claims he read an ad in an L A. newspaper, placed by a wealthy group of businessmen, led by Preston Bush, the father of George Bush. They wanted a young, malleable candidate to run for Congress. Nixon applied for the position and won the job. Nixon became a mouthpiece for the Bush group. (_Source: Freedom Magazine, 1986, L.F. Prouty_). In fact, Preston Bush is credited with creating the winning ticket of Eisenhower-Nixon in 1952.(_Source: George Bush, F. Green, Hipocrene, 1988_). Newly discovered FBI documents prove that Jack Ruby has been an employee of Richard Nixon since 1947. That that [sic] FBI document Ruby is listed as working as a spy & hit man for Nixon. On Nov. 22, 63 Ruby was seen by a women who knew him well, Julian Ann Mercer, approximately an hour before the arrival of JFK's motorcade, unloading a man carrying a rifle in a case at the Grassy Knoll from his car. Ruby later was seen on national TV killing a witness who could link Nixon & Bush to the killing of JFK: Oswald. _On the Trail of the Assassins_, Garrison, p xiii. Richard Nixon was Vice President from 1952 until 1960. In fact. Nixon was given credit for planning _Operation 40_, the secret 1961 invasion of Cuba, during his 1959 campaign for President After Batista was kicked out by the starving people of Cuba, and Fidel Castro came to power, Castro began telling American corporations they would have to pay Cuban employees decent wages. Even worse, Pepsi Cola was told it would now have to pay world market prices for Cuban sugar. Pepsi, Ford Motor Co., Standard Oil and the Mafia drug dealers decided Fidel had to be removed since his policies of requiring corporations to pay market wages was hurting their profits. So the corporations asked then Vice-President Nixon to remove Fidel. Nixon promised he would, just as soon as he'd won the 1960 elections against some underdog, an unknown Democrat named John Kennedy. It would be an easy victory for Nixon. The polls had Nixon winning by a landslide. Besides, Kennedy was a Catholic, and Americans would no more elect a Catholic President than they would elect a woman, a black or a Jew. This was 1959. Nixon told Pepsi, Standard Oil and other corporations who lost property given back to the farmers of Cuba, that if they would help him win, he would authorize an invasion to remove Castro. To further impress contributors to his campaign, then Vice-President Nixon asked the CIA to create _Operation 40_, a secret plan to invade Cuba, just as soon as he won. The CIA pul Texas millionaire and CIA agent George Bush in charge of recruiting Cuban exiles into the CIA's invasion army. Bush was working with another Texas oilman, Jack Crichton, to help him with the invasion. A fellow Texan, Air Force General Charles Cabel, was asked to coordinate the air cover for the invasion. Most of the CIA leadership around the invasion of Cuba seems to have been people from Texas. A whole Texan branch of the CIA is based in the oil business. If we trace Bush's background in the Texas oil business we discover his two partners in the oil-barge leasing business: Texan Robert Mosbacher and Texan James Baker. Mosbacher is now Secretary of Commerce and Baker is Secretary of State, the same job Dulles held when JFK was killed. (Source: _Common Cause magazine_, 3-4/90). On the Watergate tapes, June 23, 1972, referred to in the media as the "smoking gun" conversation, Nixon and his Chief of Staff, H.R. Haldeman, discussed how to stop the FBI investigation into the CIA Watergate burglary. They were worried that the investigation would expose their conection to "the Bay of Pigs thing." Haldeman, in his book _The Ends of Power_, reveals that Nixon always used code words when talking about the 1963 murder of JFK. Haldeman said Nixon would always refer to the assassination as "the Bay of Pigs." On that transcript we find Nixon discussing the role of George Bush's partner, Robert Mosbacher, as one of the Texas fundraisers for Nixon. On the tapes Nixon keeps refering to the "Cubans" and the "Texans." The "Texans" were Bush, Mosbacher and Baker. This is another direct link between Bush and evidence linking Nixon and Bush to the Kennedy assassination. In the same discussion Nixon links "the Cubans," "the Texans," "Helms," "Hunt," "Bernard Barker," Robert "Mosbacher" and "the Bay of Pigs." Over and over on the Watergate tapes, these names come up around the discussion of the photos from Dallas that Nixon was trying to obtain when he ordered the CIA to burglarize the Watergate. (_Source: Three Men and a Barge", Teresa Riordan, Common Cause magazine, March/April 1990, and San Francisco Chronicle, May 7,1977, interview with Frank Sturgis in which he stated that "the reason we burglarized the Watergate was because Nixon was interested in stopping news leaking related to the photos of our role in the assassination of President John Kennedy."_) After Nixon's landslide victory in 1972, he knew he had to centralize all power into the White House to keep his faction in power, not only to hold power, but to prevent the media from digging into how he secretly shot his way into the White House, just like Hitler shot his way into control of Germany. The first thing Nixon did was to demand signed resignations of his entire government. "Eliminate everyone," he told John Ehrlichman about reappointment, "except George Bush. Bush will do anything for our cause." (Source: _Pledging Allegiance_, Sidney Blumenthal.) The reason why Bush will 'do anything" is because his hands have as much of Kennedy's blood on them as do Nixon's, Hunt's, Sturgis's, Felix Rodriguez's and Gerald Ford's. This White House gang fears that if the public ever realizes how they shot their wav into power it could set off a spark that would destroy their fragile fraud and land them in jail. Other famous Watergate members of the CIA invasion that Bush recruited were Frank Sturgis, E. Howard Hunt, Bernard Barker and Rafael Quintero. Quintero has said publicly that if he ever told what he knew about Dallas and the Bay of Pigs, "It would be the biggest scandal ever to rock the nation." Meanwhile, in 1960, Preston Bush was running Nixon's campaign. Nixon was sent to South Vietnam to assure the French- connection government there that if France pulled out, the U.S. would step in to protect the drug trade from the GoIden Triangle. (_Source: Fronrtline, 1988, "Guns. Drugs and the CIA"; Alexander Cockburn. "Cocaine, the CIA and Air America," S.F. Examiner, Feb. 2, '91; The Politics of Heroin in Southeast Asia, Alfred McCoy, 1972._) In 1959, Vice President Nixon was flying all over the world, acting just like presidential material. It was an easy race for Nixon. Congressman Jerry Ford was doing a great job fundraising for Nixon, as was George Bush. The rich loved Nixon. The media picked up every bone Nixon tossed out to them. The biggest problem was that Nixon was afraid to speak openly of his plan to invade Cuba. The plan was a secret. No sense in alerting Cuba to the coming invasion. But Kennedy was taking a harder line on Cuba than Nixon, because Kennedy was not aware of the corporate/CIA planned invasion. Nixon lost the 1960 race by the smallest margin in history. At first Bush, Nixon, Cabel and Hunt decided to just go ahead with the invasion, without informing President Kennedy. Then, at the last second, at 4 a.m., just two hours before the invasion was set to go, General Cabel called JFK and asked for permission to provide U.S. air cover for the CIA invasion. Kennedy said no. The CIA was furious with JFK but decided to go ahead with their private invasion anyway. Due to poor intelligence, the CIA landed at the worst possible beach. A swamp. The invasion failed. The CIA lost 15 of its best men, killed, with another 1100 in Cuban prisons. It was the worst single blow the CIA ever suffered. (_Source: F. Howard Hunt, Give Us This Day._) Bush, Nixon and Hunt blamed Cabel for asking Kennedy and blamed Kennedy for saying no. They were livid with anger. Nixon's corporate sponsors ordered JFK to make any deal necessary to recover the 1100 CIA agents imprisoned in Cuba. JFK did. Once the CIA had its well-trained Cubans back, they decided to continue the invasion of Cuba just as soon as they could get rid of that S.O.B. Kennedy. The 1964 election was fast approaching. Nixon was running against Kennedy again. Bush, Ford and Nixon knew that they had to get rid of JFK now, or else the Kennedy clan, with Robert and Ted in the wings, could control the White House until 1984. They decided not to wait until '84 to get back in the White House. The Cuban teams of "shooters" began following Kennedy from city to city looking for a window of opportunity to shoot from. They came close in Chicago, but couldn't get the cooperation of Mayor Daley. But in Dallas they had an ace. The mayor was the brother of General Cabel, whom the CIA blamed for the failure of the invasion. The general prevailed on his brother, Earl, and the motorcade was changed to pass the grassy knoll at 7 m.p.h. Hunt and Sturgis shot JFK from the grassy knoll. They were arrested, photographed and seen by 15 witnesses. But the media turned a blind eye to the photos, and for 25 years the world has been searching for the truth. On the day JFK was murdered, Nixon, Hunt and some of the Watergate crew were photographed in Dallas, as were a group of Cubans, one holding an umbrella up, like a signal, next to the President's limo just as Kennedy was shot. The Cubans can be seen holding up the signal umbrella in the Zapruder film and dozens of stills taken during the assassination. After the murder they can be seen calmly walking away. Nixon denied he was in Dallas that day, but new photos and stories prove he was there. Nixon claimed to the FBI he couldn't remember where he was when JFK was killed. (_Source: FBI memo, Feb. 23, 1964, published in Coup d'etat in America, Weberman & Canfield_). Bush, too, claims he can't remember where he was. Jack Anderson did a TV special in 1988 proving beyond any shadow of doubt that two of the tramps arrested in Dallas behind the grassy knoll were Hunt and Sturgis. After the murder, former Vice President Nixon asked President Lyndon Johnson to appoint Nixon's friend, former FBI agent Jerry Ford, to run the Warren Commission. Nixon also asked LBJ to appoint Nixon's long-time supporter, Judge Earl Warren, to head the Commission. LBJ agreed. Ford interviewed all the witnesses and decided which ones would be heard and which ones eliminated. It is no coincidence that Nixon selected Ford as his Vice President after Spiro Agnew was ousted. When Nixon himself got busted in the Watergate scandal, Earl Warren offered to set up another special commission if it would help get him out of trouble again. Ford, of course, pardoned Nixon for the Watergate burglary but Nixon is still not out of the woods. There are 4000 hours of Watergate tape. On the June 23, 1972, discussions with John Ehrlichman and Haldeman there is clear evidence that Nixon is openly "confessing" to hiring Hunt to kill JFK. That is why the Watergate "investigation" went into secret session after Congress heard some of the tapes. This is why only 12 hours of 4000 hours have been released to the public. Did Congress realize that Nixon and Bush had openly discussed killing JFK for stopping the air cover for the Bay of Pigs invasion of Cuba? Remember, Nixon taped virtually every discussion he had with anyone in his inner circle, including Bush, in order to blackmail people later. There is a photo of Bush reporting to Nixon in the White House in 1968. It will be interesting to see what they were talking about on that day, when the full 4000 hours are finally released. The key to unlocking the secrets behind the 1963 murder of JFK is hidden in the 3988 hours of unreleased White House tapes. Bush was in Dallas the day Reagan was shot. (_Source: George Bush, F. Green, 1988._) That must have given Bush a flashback to November 22,1963. Paul Kangas is a private investigator in California. This article is reprinted from _The Realist_ with permission. -STeve Xref: icaen alt.postmodern:4165 alt.sci.physics.new-theories:2284 alt.alien.visitors:11010 Newsgroups: alt.postmodern,alt.sci.physics.new-theories,alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!news.Brown.EDU!noc.near.net!mv!world!kibo From: kibo@world.std.com (James "Kibo" Parry) Subject: Re: ALTERNATIVE Comet Rendezvous Mission Message-ID: Followup-To: alt.flame,alt.religion.kibology,misc.test,alt.sex Organization: Two rooms filled with typography, in downtown Boston References: <1992Nov11.202141.2275@cnsvax.uwec.edu> Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 04:58:37 GMT Lines: 66 In article <1992Nov11.202141.2275@cnsvax.uwec.edu> mcelwre@cnsvax.uwec.edu writes: > The Russians have spacecraft called "COSMOSPHERES", > which were originally built and used for "Star Wars" defense. > They are spherical in shape, Gee, mom, the Russians have invented balloons. I'm scared. > with "Psycho-energetic Range Finding" (PRF) which tunes-in to > the actual atomic signature of an object or target. I hear that banks like to have atomic signatures on checks--it's so hard to forge handwriting that small. > The 3rd-generation JUMBO Cosmospheres occupy more volume > than the Hindenburg blimp, The Hindenburg was not a blimp. The Goodyear Columbia is a blimp. The Hindenburg was a Zeppelin. My sofa occupies more volume than the Hindenburg, mainly because the Hindenburg was destroyed. > [Many of them are armed with > charged-particle beam weapons, neutron beam weapons, and/or > microwave brain-scrambling equipment!] Yes, I see you've actually witnessed the effects of these first-hand. Poor guy. Now you're doomed to posting and reposting and reposting and reposting the same fucking halfwit articles over and over to random groups like alt.postmodern. Wise up, pal. You can't get away with posting tepid babble to random groups unless your name ends in "ibo" or begins with "Matt". > The 3rd-generation JUMBO COSMOSPHERES were first > deployed in April 1981, in parallel with the first U.S. Space > Shuttle Mission. They significantly INTERFERED with that > mission, in ways which were successfully COVERED-UP by NASA > using techniques similar to those shown in the movie > "Capricorn I". Next you're going to tell me that "Total Recall" was real, too. > Dr. Beter predicted what he called the "RETIREMENT" of > Leonid Brezhnev ONE WEEK BEFORE Brezhnev "died". [Note that > the word "retirement" was used for the TERMINATION OF > REPLICANTS in the 1982 movie "Blade Runner".] Okay, I got the name of the Phil Dick work wrong. But *next* you're going to tell me that "The Hitch-Hiker's Guide The The Galaxy" is real. > The paragraph quoted above might also give a clue to > confused meteorologists about how lightning is generated in > clouds. Uh, I hate to tell you this, but they figured this out quite long ago, and they're quite happy with the normal, scientific explanation. > UN-altered REPRODUCTION and DISSEMINATION of this > IMPORTANT Information is ENCOURAGED and I like to eat WORMS. Seriously, either (a) get some new material instead of reposting it every couple of weeks, or (b) try to decide what groups to post to, okay? -- K. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12685 alt.alien.visitors:11011 sci.skeptic:34067 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!caen!spool.mu.edu!agate!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!gatech!news.byu.edu!eff!world!kibo From: kibo@world.std.com (James "Kibo" Parry) Subject: Re: Space Craft Without Pants Message-ID: Organization: Two rooms filled with typography, in downtown Boston References: <1992Nov11.151619.21039@engage.pko.dec.com> <69419@cup.portal.com> Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 06:56:07 GMT Lines: 9 In article <69419@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >Dear People: I am surprised that a person made the observation about >us giving contellations and planets names. Kelvin Rowe says his >space friends don't refer to planets by names but by their orbit. But how do they refer to the orbits--by name? -- K. Xref: icaen sci.skeptic:34069 alt.paranormal:5993 alt.alien.visitors:11012 Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!news.acns.nwu.edu!nucsrl!ddsw1!gagme!gagme!pv From: pv@gagme.chi.il.us (Paul Vader) Subject: Re: Jeane Dixon Predicts Bush Victory Message-ID: <1992Nov12.183139.29533@gagme.chi.il.us> Originator: pv@gagme Lines: 9 Sender: usenet@serveme.chi.il.us Organization: Inline Software Creations References: Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 18:31:39 GMT Rolf Manne writes: >I read somewhere about a proposed astrological service for determining >the sex of unborn children: You send me 50 dollars and some pertinent >information about the time of conception, etc. and I will tell you the sex >of the child. If I am wrong you get your money back. If they offer double your money back, go for it. PV -- Paul Vader systems analyst, rollerblader, hell's cavenewt, pv@gagme.chi.il.us FOAF, vindicated liberal democrat Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!newsserver.pixel.kodak.com!laidbak!tellab5!obdient!amiserv!amiganet!handsome From: handsome@amiganet.chi.il.us (Nick Molinari) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Wake up to reality Message-ID: Date: 12 Nov 92 18:02:23 GMT References: <1992Nov9.200538.9849@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu> Organization: Amiga Network Information Systems Lines: 28 In article <1992Nov9.200538.9849@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu>, corleyj@helium.gas.uug.arizona.edu (Jason D Corley ) writes: >In article <1992Nov9.093748.1@woods.ulowell.edu> stancad@woods.ulowell.edu write >s: >>Wake up everybody! This is the real world...there are no UFOs or Big Foot or >>any other screwed up anomaly like those. What is the use of a newsgroup like >>this anyway. Ok, so it has success (judging from the number of people posting), > >>but that only shows that there are a lot of crazy people out there. >> >>E.T. (HaHaHa) > Seems to me people just wanna know what we're doing on this big rock and how we got here..... Some turn to religion,some to science,some to their inner selves.... I tend to think it's a combination of the three.... Or maybe it was just a chance roll of the cosmic dice and we're here for no reason.... Sure there crazy people but ya have to sift through alot of sand to get a few gold nuggets..... >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Now maybe you'll keep your stinkiness to yourself.... R.H. I've had it up to here with the likes of you people.... >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!decwrl!pa.dec.com!nntpd2.cxo.dec.com!willee.enet.dec.com!fretts From: fretts@willee.enet.dec.com (Carole Fretts) Subject: Re: From: nmt@NSA Message-ID: <1992Nov13.133607.14021@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com> Sender: usenet@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com (USENET News System) Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation References: <1dh6ipINNcnn@darkstar.UCSC.EDU> Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 13:33:49 GMT Lines: 6 >In article <1dh6ipINNcnn@darkstar.UCSC.EDU>, lestat@cats.ucsc.edu (Lestat de Lioncourt) writes... Are you the *real* Lestat de Lioncourt, the love of my life? ;^) Carole Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!spool.mu.edu!agate!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!cleveland.Freenet.Edu!cc203 From: cc203@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (David R. Stepien) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: VCR Alert Date: 13 Nov 1992 14:40:39 GMT Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA) Lines: 5 Message-ID: <1e0ep7INN71a@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> Reply-To: cc203@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (David R. Stepien) NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu Tonight on Sightings is an episode on Crop Circles. Looks like we'll get to see what our old friend Colin Andrews has been up to lately! David Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12691 alt.alien.visitors:11016 sci.skeptic:34082 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!nntp1.radiomail.net!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: <69441@cup.portal.com> Date: Fri, 13 Nov 92 06:21:39 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <69301@cup.portal.com> <69354@cup.portal.com> Lines: 7 Dear People: You flamers are really sharp. My compliments to you for keeping me on the straight and narrow. I did some material last night about the use of Vertual Reality with our space ships we are sending to other planets. I had dream last night that warned me not to insult or talk about anything or anybody or they would sue me so from now on out I'm going to be a good boy. John Winston. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12692 alt.alien.visitors:11017 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!nntp1.radiomail.net!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Pee Wee's Pyramid Message-ID: <69442@cup.portal.com> Date: Fri, 13 Nov 92 06:26:35 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <64264@cup.portal.com> <69280@cup.portal.com> <69355@cup.portal.com> <97306@netnews.upenn.edu> <69420@cup.portal.com> Lines: 4 Dear Folks: It seems like the flames are getting worse. Maybe I had better slack off a little bit. From now on out I'm going to be a good boy. John Winston Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!nntp1.radiomail.net!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Bigfootf spaceman? Message-ID: <69443@cup.portal.com> Date: Fri, 13 Nov 92 06:29:13 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <69357@cup.portal.com> Lines: 3 Dear Big Foot Lovers: I believe I have said all I care to about Big Foot so if you will please take this selection away. John Winston Xref: icaen sci.skeptic:34084 alt.paranormal:5994 alt.alien.visitors:11019 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!linac!att!bu.edu!dartvax!fluent!fluent!bd From: bd@fluent@dartmouth.EDU (Brice Dowaliby) Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Innumeracy (Was: Re: Jeane Dixon Predicts Bush Victory) Message-ID: Date: 13 Nov 92 13:18:25 GMT References: <1992Nov10.160643.6464@walter.bellcore.com> <1992Nov11.194952.19765@rosevax.rosemount.com> Sender: bd@fluent@dartmouth.EDU (Brice Dowaliby) Reply-To: bd%fluent@dartmouth.EDU Distribution: usa Organization: Fluent Inc., Lebanon NH Lines: 20 In-Reply-To: grante@aquarius.rosemount.com's message of Wed, 11 Nov 1992 19:49:52 GMT grante@aquarius.rosemount.com (Grant Edwards) writes: >I heard an education expert interviewed on public radio a while back. >She was a proponent of outcome based educate (OBE). She talked about >the high rate of illiteracy and innumeracy in graduates of the the >present educational system. She then stated that with new methods >like OBE, and hard work, and commitment from parents "everybody could >be above average." She wasn't ripping off Garrison Kiellor's joke >either, she was dead serious. Was that illiteracy, innumeracy, or just sloppy speech? Since it's obvious (to me, at least) that she meant everyone could be above the current average, what's the big deal? ^^^^^^^ -- Brice Dowaliby, Fluent Inc., 10 Cavendish Court, Lebanon, NH 03766 bd%fluent@dartmouth.edu I don't speak for them, they don't speak for me DoD # 0698 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!acd4!TEFS1!gvb From: gvb@TEFS1.acd.com () Subject: Re: Re^2: alien info.wanted Message-ID: <1992Nov13.123019.5346@acd4.acd.com> Sender: news@acd4.acd.com (USENET News System) Organization: Applied Computing Devices, Inc., Terre Haute IN References: <1992Nov12.143445.27182@tellab5.tellabs.com> <1992Nov12.194151.11936@odin.corp.sgi.com> Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 12:30:19 GMT Lines: 30 In article <1992Nov12.194151.11936@odin.corp.sgi.com> rodb@slugo.corp.sgi.com (Rod Beckwith) writes: > >>Is it a ufology requirement that one know nothing of elementary >astronomy? > >Is it an astronomy requirement that one be a pompous ass? > >Rod > >-- >Rod Beckwith |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ >Datacom I/S |"The great obstacle of progress is not ignorance, >rodb@corp.sgi.com|but the illusion of knowledge." > |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Rod, If Jeff was being a PA, I am sure this message would qualify you. I really don't think injecting a little reality into this group qualifies one as a PA. Gregg "The REAL Pompous Ass Guy" Brown (Just ask Don or Jeff P.!) -- Gregg Brown: Serious about UFO Sighting and Abduction Research 812-442-5354 (10am - 5pm EST) or e-mail me at gvb@acd4.acd.com All information will be strictly confidential. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!usc!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!The-Star.honeywell.com!umn.edu!lynx!apsicc.aps.edu!jim From: jim@apsicc.aps.edu (frost...) Subject: Re: Bill Clinton and UFOs? Message-ID: <13NOV199209585648@apsicc.aps.edu> Date: Fri, 13 Nov 92 16:58:00 GMT Organization: Albuquerque Public Schools - Career Enrichment Center References: <1dp7qoINNlh8@clover.csv.warwick.ac.uk> News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41 Lines: 28 In article , uk01719@nx28.mik.uky.edu (Tracy D. Kilroy) writes... >In <1992Nov11.140037.25069@netcom.com> rkrouse@netcom.com (Robert K. Rouse) writes: >| President Carter said that he saw a UFO with some other people >|but skeptics say that he saw Venus. Ronald Regan said that he >|saw a UFO from Air Force One but no one took it seriously because >|Regan often said things that didn't make sense. > > I was informed that Carter asked some government officials for the >records of UFO research to be released but his request came back denied, >and they would not even let him see any documents they had. > >Tracy >University of Kentucky >uk01719@mik.uky.edu > > > ====================================================================== Tracy, Remember too that President Carter also severly whacked that vicious swimming attack rabbit with a paddle before it could possibly take a bite out of a boat and hurt anyone. Jim 8-)[ ====================================================================== We are rapidly ascending through prosperity to poverty... Twain Internet: jim@apsicc.aps.edu Albuquerque Public Schools - Instructional System Manager ====================================================================== Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!news.service.uci.edu!ucivax!megatek!max From: max@megatek.com (Max Elliot) Subject: Re: Re^2: alien info.wanted Message-ID: <1992Nov13.171848.6359@megatek.com> Organization: Megatek Corporation, San Diego, California References: <1992Nov12.194151.11936@odin.corp.sgi.com> Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 17:18:48 GMT Lines: 34 From article <1992Nov12.194151.11936@odin.corp.sgi.com>, by rodb@slugo.corp.sgi.com (Rod Beckwith): > >>Is it a ufology requirement that one know nothing of elementary > astronomy? > > Is it an astronomy requirement that one be a pompous ass? > > Rod > > -- > Rod Beckwith |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ > Datacom I/S |"The great obstacle of progress is not ignorance, > rodb@corp.sgi.com|but the illusion of knowledge." > |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Whoa! That's a little harsh Rod! Maybe it is you who deserves the title you so lightly place. That person was right on the button. SO many of the references to constellations, and other astronomical quantities in this group are TOTALLY BOGUS. It is important that it be made clear. If someone says something utterly and obviously wrong like 'Alpha Centauri, on the other side of the Galaxy', they should be ROASTED. I am sick of all this 'from the constellation XYZ' baloney. It was recently stated that constellations are simply 2D projections of stars in 3D space which are not necessarily near to each other AT ALL. Saying a group of aliens is from some given constellation is exactly equivalent to saying that they are from 'this arm of the galaxy', NOTHING MORE. I posted once that is was one thing to assert some theory based on experience or even opinion, but TOTALLY another thing to butt heads with plain, proven facts. Please let those of us who have a little real, scientific, fact-based info, share that with the group. The Earth is not flat, nor is it hollow. -Max Xref: icaen alt.conspiracy:19892 alt.alien.visitors:11023 alt.conspiracy.jfk:3818 Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy.jfk Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!usc!news.bbn.com!noc.near.net!mozz.unh.edu!unhtel!morwyn!forrie From: forrie@morwyn.uucp (Forrest Aldrich) Subject: Re: JFK and BUSH References: <1dvi0dINN6u8@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> Organization: Vision Graphics Dover, NH USA Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 13:52:21 GMT Message-ID: <1992Nov13.135221.6046@morwyn.uucp> Reply-To: morwyn.uucp!forrie@unhtel.unh.edu (Forrest Aldrich - SysAdmin) Lines: 13 That was a great article... but: what is it doing posted in ALT.ALIEN.VISITORS ??? ^^^^^ (ahem) -- ----------- Forrest Aldrich ----------- ------- morwyn!forrie@unhtel.unh.edu ------- ---- ---- -- VISION GRAPHICS -- Dover, NH - USA -- ------------------------------------------------------ Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!decwrl!pacbell.com!charon.amdahl.com!amdahl!JUTS!nmt@N From: nmt@N Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: From: nmt@NSA Message-ID: <24us02M62bQf01@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com> Date: 13 Nov 92 17:40:28 GMT References: <1dh6ipINNcnn@darkstar.UCSC.EDU> <1992Nov13.133607.14021@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com> Sender: netnews@ccc.amdahl.com Organization: AM Development Lines: 3 Oui, mademoiselle, c'est moi. Comment-allez vous? Je veux de vous revoir, ma belle fleur. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uunet.ca!hombas!joseph.daniels From: joseph.daniels@homebase.com (Joseph Daniels) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Wake up to reality Message-ID: <1553.479.uupcb@homebase.com> Date: 13 Nov 92 15:02:00 GMT Distribution: world Organization: Home Base BBS - St. Thomas, Ontario - 519-633-7253 Reply-To: joseph.daniels@homebase.com (Joseph Daniels) Lines: 28 To: stancad@woods.ulowell.edu From: hombas!Joseph.daniels@uunet.ca ST|Wake up everybody! This is the real world...there are no UFOs... `---------------------------------------------------------------- .---------------------. / .---. \ ( O O O O | | O O O O O ) \ | | / `---------------------' **__ I'm sure glad you / |---| \ ** 00 don't exist. /___ |---| \ *( > (\ /) `---' ___ * o \=/ (\ /) ; _' .----. ==' \-/ .-'`-. =='// \ /|| \\.----. | | || || || \ /\\ | | || /__\ || || | | || |||| /__\ `-```' |||| |||| | | .-..-. |||| | | .-..-. | | | `-. Curtesy InfoNet London Ontario (519)649-1508 --- . SLMR 2.1a . Nothing is so smiple that it can't get screwed up. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uunet.ca!hombas!joseph.daniels From: joseph.daniels@homebase.com (Joseph Daniels) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Bill Clinton and UFOs? Message-ID: <1554.479.uupcb@homebase.com> Date: 13 Nov 92 15:40:00 GMT Distribution: world Organization: Home Base BBS - St. Thomas, Ontario - 519-633-7253 Reply-To: joseph.daniels@homebase.com (Joseph Daniels) Lines: 77 To: pyuaq@csv.warwick.ac.uk (Mr G S Sutherland) From: hombas!Joseph.daniels@uunet.ca MGSS|No idea, but did you know that President Carter actually promised to |tell the world the truth on the UFO sitings whilst campaigning for |the White House. He is reputed to have had an excellent sighting of |one that prompted him to take this position.... `------------------------------------------------------------------- I found the following four files posted on InfoNet (London) -------------------------------------------------------- President Jimmy Carter sees UFO FROM: CUFON UFO INFO SERVICE SOURCE: FLEETWOOD, PA ( AP ) DATE: SEPTEMBER 18, 1973 A dispatch from Statesboro, GA quoted Governor Jimmy Carter on UFO's "I've seen one myself." Mr. Carter said: he saw the shining, saucer-shaped object before he became governor. He did not specify the date or place, but noted that he had been with friends after a business dinner. The dispatch said: there have been a number of UFO sightings in the South recently but did not specify how many of them had been after business dinners. ------------------------------------------------------------ JIMMY CARTER PRIVATE UFO PROJECT In 1969 Jimmy Carter saw a UFO the size of the moon and changing colors. The sighting led Carter to claim that he would make information about UFOs public if he became president. He tried and was stopped by a stubborn bureaucracy. -------------------------------------------------------------- President Carter Asked Space Agency to Investigate UFO's FROM: CUFON UFO INFO SERVICE SOURCE: WASHINGTON D.C. ( AP ) DATE: NOVEMBER 27, 1977 President Carter had asked NASA to establish a panel of inquiry to investigate UFO's. Dave Williamsom, NASA's assistant for special projects, answered on friday that NASA was "not anxious" to get into the controversy because"it's not wise to do research on something that is not a measurable phenomenon. There is no measurable UFO evidence such as a piece of metal, flesh or cloth. We don't even have any radio signals. A photograph is not a measurement. But he added that a group of technical experts he headed would recommend by the end of the year what NASA's response should be to the white house request. -------------------------------------------------------------------- NASA REFUSES TO INVESTIGATE UFOS AT PRESIDENT CARTERS REQUEST FROM: CUDON UFO INFO SERVICE SOURCE: WASHINGTON D.C. ( AP ) DATE: DECEMBER 28, 1977 NASA administrator Robert Frosch, in a letter last week to Pres. Carter's science advisor Dr. Frank Press, rejected a White House request to investi-gate UFO's saying that such an inquiry would be "wasteful and probably unproductive." Dr. Press said: he accepted NASA's conclusions and did not plan to pursue the matter further. NASA said: that it stood ready to analyze any "bona fide physical evidence from credible sources," but such evidence has never been found. --- . SLMR 2.1a . Back Up My Hard Drive? I Can't Find The Reverse Switch! Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: auras auras everywhere Message-ID: <69465@cup.portal.com> Date: Fri, 13 Nov 92 17:47:20 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <16850@mindlink.bc.ca> <68758@cup.portal.com> <69038@cup.portal.com> <69070@cup.portal.com> <69322@cup.portal.com> Lines: 3 Dear Aura Observers: The ability to read the aura for past lives is called giving a person a life reading. John Winston. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!csus.edu!netcom.com!jeffp From: jeffp@netcom.com (Jeff) Subject: Re: Bill Clinton and UFOs? Message-ID: <1992Nov14.032136.25847@netcom.com> Organization: BeHereNow References: <1dr8h8INNavk@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> <1992Nov12.041403.16826@netcom.com> <1992Nov12.152620.8391@odin.corp.sgi.com> Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1992 03:21:36 GMT Lines: 29 In article <1992Nov12.152620.8391@odin.corp.sgi.com> rodb@slugo.corp.sgi.com (Rod Beckwith) writes: > >Well I imagine that Henry Winkler has something to say about all of this. >He is the one whom produces quite a few of the UFO related "Sightings" >shows ,I think. >I might be wrong about the show, it could have been the periodical >"Mysteries of the Unknown", that feature quite a bit of UFO information. At >any rate, I think that he has a vested intrest in this phenomena. > >Mabye the Authors of the FAQ could put together a PETITION for all >interested in this group, possibly others, to send to Pres-elect Clinton. >What do you all think? > I really think that SOMEBODY needs to publicly put this question to the President, perhaps in front of cameras at a press conference (Clinton). The best person to be spokesman would be a press personality. Rod's suggestion is very good, and I had forgotten that the Fonz is a UFO nut like us... So short of getting Dan Rather to ask the Prez for us, maybe the best idea is to try and contact HW. Anyone have an idea of how to contact someone that is used to privacy in a big way? Maybe we could send a letter to him via his agent or manager, or production company? Jeff- Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!virgin!unhtel!morwyn!forrie From: forrie@morwyn.uucp (Forrest Aldrich) Subject: Re: Bill Clinton and UFOs? References: <1992Nov12.060147.16346@bilver.uucp> <1992Nov12.141729.14761@netcom.com> Organization: Vision Graphics Dover, NH USA Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 17:22:29 GMT Message-ID: <1992Nov12.172229.844@morwyn.uucp> Reply-To: morwyn.uucp!forrie@unhtel.unh.edu (Forrest Aldrich - SysAdmin) Lines: 56 My guess is that with such an endeavor one must utilize a lot of finesse. Particularly in light of the fact that such a 'topic' can be so 'easily' dismissed as flim-flam. Further, it might be even more difficult when the party first goes into office. They're going to be clamoring over a lot of things... but this all depends on Clinton and Gore's open-mindedness (so far, I've been pretty impressed). Indeed, I have heard of no mention of this topic during his campaign, but then again this isn't (unfortunately) quite the topic to bring up in front of the Republicans who, in their desperation to win, would have really shot the poison arrow. But with everything that has been going on in the world, I would find it hard to believe that the topic hasn't run across either of the families at one point or another. The other thing I was thinking about was about the purported 'secret- government' (or whatever you wish to call it). If it was they who were responsible for Kennedy (I highly suspect this), and other atrocities, what can you do? I've read many accusations of such an underground organization, and I'll admit some of it sounds a bit off- the-wall, but considering everything that goes on in the world, I wouldn't be the least be surprised. The point here being if they don't want this information out (yet) then I would probably suspect they would do everything within their ability to prevent it. Any thoughts? To approach the President on such a matter seems to be quite a challenge. For you not only need to prepare a _substantiative_ case/presentation, but you have to (I think) go through hell to get a meeting with him. Perhaps we can get someone in politics to do this (like a Senator, or whomever). The more back-up you have, socially and politically, the better off I think such a move will be. Someone mentioned a protest/march that might be occurring next July 4th outside of the White House (or somewhere) which is about UFOs and revealing the truth... anyone hear of this? The enigma surrounding this alien presence is incredible... yet in some ways it appears to be rather sick. They are taking fetuses, performing strange tests (Mindscan, pain endurance, etc.) without consent or even the least be of an explanation. I find that appalling. I don't care what their purpose is, or where they come from. To get the truth revealed about this topic will definately be highly significant. Even so, if we find out, and we _don't_ like or want what they offer, are we then merciless to the technology? Even IF they are the 'missing link' and we were genetically altered (whenever), does that give them the right to do what they please? Apparently _they_ think so... as they tell us "We have the right." "We must do this." ... etc. Forrest -- ----------- Forrest Aldrich ----------- ------- morwyn!forrie@unhtel.unh.edu ------- ---- ---- -- VISION GRAPHICS -- Dover, NH - USA -- ------------------------------------------------------ Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!europa.asd.contel.com!emory!wupost!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!yale.edu!ira.uka.de!math.fu-berlin.de!unidui!rrz.uni-koeln.de!Germany.EU.net!mcsun!sunic!aun.uninett.no!ugle.unit.no!alf.uib.no!hsr.no!elektro2.hsr.no!trondk_l From: trondk_l@gribb.hsr.no (Lindanger, Trond K. 8-94) Subject: Re: The Philadelphia Experiment Message-ID: Sender: news@hsr.no Organization: Rogaland University Centre References: <1dbtumINNa7r@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 21:37:46 GMT Lines: 58 In article thumper@garfield.catt.ncsu.edu (Chris Mojica) writes: >From: thumper@garfield.catt.ncsu.edu (Chris Mojica) >Subject: Re: The Philadelphia Experiment >Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 03:20:59 GMT >cc203@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (David R. Stepien) writes: >>For a long time I've heard all kinds of wild stories about the >>Philadelphia Experiment. Does anyone know the truth? >>What exactly was the experiment? >>What were the results? >>What are the possible interpretations of these results? >>Answers anyone? >Well David go checkout the book > The Philadelphia Experiment, Project Invisibility: > By William L. Moore >I found this book to be very informative on the subject. >Chris YES! If you are interested in The Philadelphia Experiment, this book is really informative. There is also a film about the subject, but this shouldn't be taken serious. By the way: have anyone heard anything further. Are there still people doing scientific work on this subject? Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:11031 alt.conspiracy:19899 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!charon.amdahl.com!pacbell.com!att-out!rutgers!uwm.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!yale.edu!ira.uka.de!math.fu-berlin.de!news.netmbx.de!Germany.EU.net!mcsun!sunic!ugle.unit.no!alf.uib.no!hsr.no!elektro2.hsr.no!trondk_l From: trondk_l@gribb.hsr.no (Lindanger, Trond K. 8-94) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy Subject: Re: JFK and BUSH Message-ID: Date: 13 Nov 92 22:22:05 GMT References: <1992Oct9.201953.1332@netcom.com> <68004@cup.portal.com> <1992Nov9.183137.941@Cadence.COM> Sender: news@hsr.no Organization: Rogaland University Centre Lines: 28 In article <1992Nov9.183137.941@Cadence.COM> mas@Cadence.COM (Masud Khan) writes: >Xref: hsr.no alt.alien.visitors:10195 alt.conspiracy:16486 >Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy >Path: hsr.no!alf.uib.no!aun.uninett.no!sunic!mcsun!uunet!Cadence.COM!mas >From: mas@Cadence.COM (Masud Khan) >Subject: JFK and BUSH >Message-ID: <1992Nov9.183137.941@Cadence.COM> >Organization: Cadence Design Systems, Inc. >References: <1992Oct9.201953.1332@netcom.com> <68004@cup.portal.com> >Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 18:31:37 GMT >Lines: 9 >When was Bush head of CIA and do you think he know who killed >Kennedy? (I know it's the CIA but which individuals?) >Mas >-- > C I T I Z E N mas@cadence.com > _____ _____ > \_/ > _____/ \_____ If you read the big article about the history of cooperation between us, and "beeings" (read: Greys) from outerspace, you would see a sentence something like: "Watch the driver, he killed Kennedy"... Why? Read the article... Trond - Your friend in Norway Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!europa.asd.contel.com!darwin.sura.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!yale.edu!ira.uka.de!math.fu-berlin.de!unidui!rrz.uni-koeln.de!Germany.EU.net!mcsun!sunic!aun.uninett.no!ugle.unit.no!alf.uib.no!hsr.no!elektro2.hsr.no!trondk_l From: trondk_l@gribb.hsr.no (Lindanger, Trond K. 8-94) Subject: Re: Aliens.Part1 - opinions anyone ? Message-ID: Sender: news@hsr.no Organization: Rogaland University Centre References: <2AF808B2.A601@tct.com> <92310.16343634R33O7@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU> Distribution: alt Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 22:06:12 GMT Lines: 44 In article esi102@cck.coventry.ac.uk (The Magician) writes: >From: esi102@cck.coventry.ac.uk (The Magician) >Subject: Re: Aliens.Part1 - opinions anyone ? >Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 16:52:21 GMT >I would like to find out if any of this set of atricles (which looks like >the source/sketch notes for a book) is true. I'm a skeptic at heart, but >i must admit that some of the things outlined in the article do ring true. >If there is a big alien presence on the planet, and they are trying to cover >thier tracks, then there is a possibility that this article is disinformation. >Come on guys, any opinons... >IMHO the article does streach the creduality barrier a bit, but not being an >American I cannot comment on the powerbases described in the context of the >American constitution, or the political history described, but it does seem a >bit ominous. >Well..If martial law gets declared then watch your buts boyo's. >Thats my farthing's worth. >Tim. >esi102@uk.ac.cov.cck >Dreams fade, but nightmares last for ever.... Much can be said about the article, but one thing is for sure: it was interesting reading. There are (ofcourse) many questionable shadows in it, but all in all it fits well in due to my own picture of the whole situation. I've heard quite a lot of it before, the question is:How indepentent are the different sources. What if it turns out, going into depth, beeing the same basic source? Still I find the most of the content believable. For instance the abductions. Many different people are telling they have been manipulated during some sort of kidnapping by "beeings" not like ourselves. By the way: Does anyone know how many people beeing abducted? Are they located specially to any particulary countrys? How do they pick their victims? .... Trond - Your friend in Norway Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!charon.amdahl.com!pacbell.com!sgiblab!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!rpi!usenet.coe.montana.edu!news.u.washington.edu!hardy.u.washington.edu!pul From: pul@hardy.u.washington.edu (Arbaline) Subject: Re: ET Races: (Was: Re: a.a.v. Frequently Asked Questions [1 of 3]) Message-ID: <1992Nov14.092900.17497@u.washington.edu> Keywords: FAQ Sender: news@u.washington.edu (USENET News System) Organization: University of Washington References: <1992Nov7.092129.18314@u.washington.edu> <40811@sdcc12.ucsd.edu> <1dp7fmINNl3m@clover.csv.warwick.ac.uk> Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1992 09:29:00 GMT Lines: 60 In article <1dp7fmINNl3m@clover.csv.warwick.ac.uk> pyuaq@csv.warwick.ac.uk (Mr G S Sutherland) writes: >In article <40811@sdcc12.ucsd.edu> jhussain@cs.ucsd.edu (Jabir Hussain) writes: >+In article <1992Nov7.092129.18314@u.washington.edu>, >+pul@hardy.u.washington.edu (Arbaline) writes: >+|> >3.01: Aryans (Blondes) >+|> >---------------------- >+|> >Blond Nordic Humanoids who work with the greys. Said to be captured by >+|> >+|> You should mention the Centaurian extraterrestrials, who are blond >+|> nordic types who come from Alpha Centauri - that's right: the closest >+|> >+|> DALs: This is a race of nordic types who come from what is called the >+ >+Either Hitler was right, or there is one HELL of a market for peroxide out >+there... Not all humanoid ET's are "White Aryan Blondes". For example, according to "UFO... Contact from the Pleiades", the Lyrians have darker skin, closer to what I would guess to the average Asian. And the Vegans it is said are even darker skinned still, probably pretty close to an African American. It's just that the Pleiadians and Centaurians who are close to us happen to have light skin and hair. >There is also the paradox that the caucasian race was (as far as I've heard) >the last racial group to arise on Earth. This seems awfully out of place with >90% of the theories that say that the Pleideans (also white) are the actual >ancestors of all humanity. See above. Of course, at the same time it is said that the Pleiadians come from Earth's future, or at least one of our possible futures. This concept may be a little harder to grasp, but if so then they could still travel back in time to father our race. Of course, we of Earth still have lots to learn about the truth of our history too. >Secondly, we seem to be the only species in the universe that shows any form >of variation in our colouring, all others seem to lack this genetic trait... This is probably just due to we of Earth stereotyping people of other planets, just as we too often do the same to people on our own planet. For example, there could be several sub-races of Vegans - not only black but green and orange skinned too. And it just so happened that one of the black Vegans was the one who landed on Billy Meier's lawn. Hence the contact reports a "dark skinned humanoid from Vega" and we all start assuming that all Vegans are black in our ET books and so on. However, it also seems to be the case that Earth is visited more often by more extraterrestrial races who have influenced our past and genetics somewhat, so there probably is more racial diversity on Earth than on other planets. Although remember, there are at least three main different types of Greys, ranging from tan to white-grey skin, and so on, so there's an example of alien diversity right there. >Graeme Sutherland. -|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|- | Walter D. "Cruiser1" Pullen - pul@milton.u.washington.edu | -|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|- | "Who am I, What am I? As I am, I am not. But as we are, I AM. And to | - you my creation, My Perfect Love is your Perfect Freedom. And I will be - | with you forever and ever, until the End, and then forever more." - GOD | -|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|- Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:11034 alt.flame:45934 alt.religion.kibology:4631 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.flame,alt.religion.kibology Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!charon.amdahl.com!pacbell.com!sgiblab!sdd.hp.com!caen!hellgate.utah.edu!fcom.cc.utah.edu!ux1!news.byu.edu!eff!world!kibo From: kibo@world.std.com (James "Kibo" Parry) Subject: Re: Wake up to reality Message-ID: Followup-To: alt.religion.kibology Organization: Two rooms filled with typography, in downtown Boston References: <1992Nov9.200538.9849@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu> Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1992 06:15:37 GMT Lines: 9 [alt.alien.visitors] In article handsome@amiganet.chi.il.us (Nick Molinari) writes: >Now maybe you'll keep your stinkiness to yourself.... The above is the world's wimpiest flame, as verified by Guinness. Next he'll tell us we have cooties! Oh NO! -- K. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12701 alt.alien.visitors:11035 sci.skeptic:34121 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Space Craft Without Pants Message-ID: <69492@cup.portal.com> Date: Sat, 14 Nov 92 06:18:58 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Nov11.151619.21039@engage.pko.dec.com> <69419@cup.portal.com> Lines: 9 Dear Space People Watchers: The people from other planets as far as I have been told will give a sun a name (some of them call our sun Shan) and we are considered to be the third orbit from our sun unless you count Vulcan so we are the number three orbit planet of the sun Shan, except they don't use the same words for your numbers. John Winston. The people in our solar system use a inter planetary language called Solar Max. It's sort of the same way we use Latin as an international language. I will now close with solar language and say goodbye and may God be with you. Adona Vasu Baragus. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Winstons pyramid builders Message-ID: <69493@cup.portal.com> Date: Sat, 14 Nov 92 06:34:21 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) Distribution: usa References: <1992Nov6.235212.20128@zia.aoc.nrao.edu> Lines: 7 Dear Builders of Pyramids: The reason I recommended the show This Old Pyramid is that it is a take off on the show This Old House which talks about how to build and repair houses. This show will give a person an idea of how the ancient people built the Great Pyramid. It makes people think. I don't especially agree with all of it but I am trying to learn how it was built myself. John Winston. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Please help me! _What_ was that? Message-ID: <69494@cup.portal.com> Date: Sat, 14 Nov 92 06:40:00 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: Lines: 4 Dear Ulrich: I have to go to work now but maybe I can explain what you saw a little while later. John Winston Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!caen!malgudi.oar.net!news.ysu.edu!do-not-reply-to-path From: af215@yfn.ysu.edu (Joe Blaylock) Subject: Re: Alien in my laboratory Message-ID: <1992Nov14.151358.20929@news.ysu.edu> Sender: news@news.ysu.edu (Usenet News Admin) Nntp-Posting-Host: yfn.ysu.edu Organization: Youngstown State University/Youngstown Free-Net Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1992 15:13:58 GMT Lines: 8 If those are the criterion for alien[D[D[D[D[D ^^^--Being an alien then: OH MY GOD! I'm An Alien! -- Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!charon.amdahl.com!pacbell.com!sgiblab!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!ohstpy!vancleef From: vancleef@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Bill Clinton and UFOs? Message-ID: <14669.2b04980b@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu> Date: 14 Nov 92 06:09:15 EST References: <1dr8h8INNavk@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> <1992Nov12.041403.16826@netcom.com> <1992Nov12.152620.8391@odin.corp.sgi.com> <1992Nov14.032136.25847@netcom.com> Lines: 42 In article <1992Nov14.032136.25847@netcom.com>, jeffp@netcom.com (Jeff) writes: > In article <1992Nov12.152620.8391@odin.corp.sgi.com> rodb@slugo.corp.sgi.com (Rod Beckwith) writes: >> >>Well I imagine that Henry Winkler has something to say about all of this. >>He is the one whom produces quite a few of the UFO related "Sightings" >>shows ,I think. >>I might be wrong about the show, it could have been the periodical >>"Mysteries of the Unknown", that feature quite a bit of UFO information. At >>any rate, I think that he has a vested intrest in this phenomena. >> >>Mabye the Authors of the FAQ could put together a PETITION for all >>interested in this group, possibly others, to send to Pres-elect Clinton. >>What do you all think? >> > > I really think that SOMEBODY needs to publicly put this question to the > President, perhaps in front of cameras at a press conference (Clinton). > > The best person to be spokesman would be a press personality. > Rod's suggestion is very good, and I had forgotten that the Fonz is a UFO > nut like us... > So short of getting Dan Rather to ask the Prez for us, maybe the best idea > is to try and contact HW. Anyone have an idea of how to contact someone > that is used to privacy in a big way? Maybe we could send a letter to > him via his agent or manager, or production company? > > Jeff- > > > The subject is ikly to be so top secret that the new President-elect is totally unaware of it. He will know the facts *real soon*. Look forward to a change in attitude when this happens! -Garrett BTW: I voted for Gov. Clinton, I think he will make a fine President. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!charon.amdahl.com!pacbell.com!sgiblab!sgigate!odin!slugo.corp.sgi.com!rodb From: rodb@slugo.corp.sgi.com (Rod Beckwith) Subject: Re: Re^2: alien info.wanted Message-ID: <1992Nov14.163829.25081@odin.corp.sgi.com> Sender: news@odin.corp.sgi.com (Net News) Nntp-Posting-Host: slugo.corp.sgi.com Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc. References: <1992Nov12.194151.11936@odin.corp.sgi.com> <1992Nov13.171848.6359@megatek.com> Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1992 16:38:29 GMT Lines: 99 What started this whole thing: jcj@tellabs.com[writes] >>Is it a ufology requirement that one know nothing of elementary > astronomy? rodb@sgi.com[writes] > > Is it an astronomy requirement that one be a pompous ass? > > Rod > Max, Gregg, & the rest, Injection of fact is one thing, delivery of moronic remarks is another. If people must make uniformed sweeping statements about people of a certain group to which I belong, I for one am not, as I have illustrated in the past, going to just EAT IT. Nobody has to like it. Knee-jerk reaction to such statements let the social bigots of the world know that in the future they might be a little more thoughtful on what they say & do next time. If you haven't noticed, I'm not part of the silent majority. For those of you who are more thick skinned than I, live long & prosper, hopefully I will reach that plateau someday. When educating someone, it is just that----EDUCATION---one does not ridicule someone for being ignorant. Ignorance is not a crime, it's just a lack of knowledge. Point being that if jcj@tellabs.com wanted to educate, then do it. The crass remark at the end of his post defeats the whole purpose & meaning of education & generally pisses me off. Let me give you an analogy: Ok, time for a little (Oh my God!) networking lesson. The protocol in question here is TCP/IP. There are three classes of addresses in TCP/IP, they are as follows: 1) Class A: NIC.X.X.X NIC=1-126 255=broadcast 2) Class B: NIC.NIC.X.X NIC=128-191 2) Class C: NIC.NIC.NIC.X NIC=192-223 224-254 reserved for testing NIC= Network number assigned by the Network Information Center X = Network number assigned by local Network administrator Addressing is 32bit The format for each address is :0-255.0-255.0-255.0-255 Each '0-255' is called an octet Q: Why do we have different classes of addresses & choose one over the other? A: The number of available hosts is greater in each progressively higher class address. Example Class B address--> 150.165.20.10 There are 65,534 available hosts per network. 256times256 , in which the extra two numbers that are given are reserved for the network address(150.165.0.0) & the network broadcast address(150.165.255.255, unless of course you choose to use subnetting in which the 255 numbers will change according to how many bits you use for networks & how many bits you use for hosts.) There are 16,777,214 availiable host addresses for a class A address. There are 255 available host addresses for a class C address. End of lesson. Is it a USENET requirement that one know nothing of elementary networking? ========================================================================== Granted there are alot of you out there that probably know about networking, my point being, for those of you that don't, is it nessesary for you to know all about networking to use or talk about it? I think not. Everyone has there own expertise in certain areas. We are all slaves to technology one way or another. It is not a requirement to know how a lightbulb works to turn it on, but if you're interested, it's nice to know how it all works. It's all in the presentation. Learning is supposed to be fun, not an insult. If you all can't see my point...........................so be it. BTW-There are in fact quite a few astronomers that are actively involved in UFO research, amateur & professional. This invalidates the original snide remark by Jeff. Rod*(Tired of pompous asses)*Beckwith -- Rod Beckwith |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Datacom I/S |"The great obstacle of progress is not ignorance, rodb@corp.sgi.com|but the illusion of knowledge." |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$  Xref: icaen alt.conspiracy:19910 alt.alien.visitors:11041 alt.conspiracy.jfk:3820 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!caen!spool.mu.edu!vms.csd.mu.edu!6489MCADAMSJ From: 6489mcadamsj@vms.csd.mu.edu (John McAdams) Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy.jfk Subject: Re: JFK and BUSH Date: 14 Nov 1992 21:58:52 GMT Organization: Marquette University - Computer Services Lines: 24 Message-ID: <009639BE.63B871C0@vms.csd.mu.edu> References: <1dvi0dINN6u8@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>,<1992Nov13.135221.6046@morwyn.uucp> Reply-To: 6489mcadamsj@vms.csd.mu.edu NNTP-Posting-Host: vmsd.csd.mu.edu In article <1992Nov13.135221.6046@morwyn.uucp>, forrie@morwyn.uucp (Forrest Aldrich) writes: > >That was a great article... but: what is it doing posted in >ALT.ALIEN.VISITORS ??? > ^^^^^ Maybe that tells you something, Forrest, about the sort of people into JFK conspiracy theory. I might have taken it seriously, except that I occasionally ran across absurd misstatements of fact. For example, that Nixon was going to run against Kennedy in 1964. Actually, his loss of the governors race in California in 1962 was thought to have finished him politically. Obviously *he* hadn't given up. But nobody thought of a Nixon candidacy in 1964. Or the assertion that JFK learned about the Bay of Pigs a few hours before it began. In fact, his cabinet had discussed it quite far in advance. Since most of the American public doesn't know the trivial details of who was where on which day 30 years ago, it's possible to make absurd assertions and get away with it. .John McAdams Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!snorkelwacker.mit.edu!tamsun.tamu.edu!cjr6495 From: cjr6495@tamsun.tamu.edu (Opera_Ghost) Subject: Re: Bill Clinton and UFOs? Message-ID: <1992Nov14.201718.26914@tamsun.tamu.edu> Organization: Texas A&M University, College Station References: <1dp7qoINNlh8@clover.csv.warwick.ac.uk> <1992Nov11.140037.25069@netcom.com> Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1992 20:17:18 GMT Lines: 24 In article uk01719@nx28.mik.uky.edu (Tracy D. Kilroy) writes: >In <1992Nov11.140037.25069@netcom.com> rkrouse@netcom.com (Robert K. Rouse) writes: >| President Carter said that he saw a UFO with some other people >|but skeptics say that he saw Venus. Ronald Regan said that he >|saw a UFO from Air Force One but no one took it seriously because >|Regan often said things that didn't make sense. > > I was informed that Carter asked some government officials for the >records of UFO research to be released but his request came back denied, >and they would not even let him see any documents they had. > >Tracy >University of Kentucky >uk01719@mik.uky.edu This would lead one to believe that someone in the military has a bit too much power. Perhaps the best thing for Clinton to do would be to re-evaluate the security in the US military complex. CJR Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12709 alt.alien.visitors:11043 sci.skeptic:34131 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: <69512@cup.portal.com> Date: Sat, 14 Nov 92 17:37:20 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <69354@cup.portal.com> <1992Nov14.030624.23977@netcom.com> Lines: 3 Yes Sir and Mam Folks: We're going to have to clean up the language on this Net. You can never tell Rev. Don Showen may be listening. John Winston Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12710 alt.alien.visitors:11044 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Pee Wee's Pyramid Message-ID: <69513@cup.portal.com> Date: Sat, 14 Nov 92 17:43:31 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <64264@cup.portal.com> <69280@cup.portal.com> <69355@cup.portal.com> <97306@netnews.upenn.edu> <69420@cup.portal.com> <69442@cup.portal.com> Lines: 3 Dear Pyramidologist: Boy now that's a name for you. I'll try to get some more information about the Lone Pine Pyramid on soon. John Winston Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Monsters and Etc. Message-ID: <69514@cup.portal.com> Date: Sat, 14 Nov 92 17:48:15 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) Distribution: world References: <69357@cup.portal.com> <69443@cup.portal.com> Lines: 4 Dear Big Foot Lovers: I have decided to change the subject we are talking about to Monsters and Etc. This will be about unusal animals and beings that are not normally talked about. John Winston Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Please help me! _What_ was that? Message-ID: <69515@cup.portal.com> Date: Sat, 14 Nov 92 18:02:30 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <69494@cup.portal.com> Lines: 14 Dear Ulrich: Let me give you a little information by referring to an experience that a friend of mine had. His name is Dr. Patrick Bailey who is a friend of Mr. Harder the famous University of Berkley UFO investigator. Pat once had an experience of seeing a UFO that just appeared as a light at night. He was able to watch the light and it would respond to his thoughts to move from one place to the other while he watched it for about 5 or more minutes. After that time Pat became more and more interested in the study of UFOs and now devotes a great deal of time in the UFO work. It is my opinion that you were led to be in a place where you would see the UFO. If you can stick with it and show that you are sincere then you will see more of them and maybe even go aboard one of them either in the physical form or the astral form. So stick in there. John Winston. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!munnari.oz.au!spool.mu.edu!think.com!yale.edu!ira.uka.de!rz.uni-karlsruhe.de!stepsun.uni-kl.de!sun.rhrk.uni-kl.de!news From: CRJ14530@acuvax.acu.edu (Judd Christopher R.) Subject: Groom Lake/Project Red Light Message-ID: <1992Nov14.212939.3254@rhrk.uni-kl.de> Sender: news@rhrk.uni-kl.de Organization: Abilene Christian University, Abilene, TX Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1992 21:29:39 GMT X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.20 Lines: 8 I was just wondering if anyone had any information about the possibility of saucers flying over Groom Lake in Nellis AFB in Nevada. Please give any/all information available. Danger Maus (aka Christopher Judd CRJ14530@ACUVAX.ACU.EDU or CRJ14530@ACUVAX.BITNET) Xref: icaen alt.folklore.science:3991 alt.alien.visitors:11048 alt.fan.douglas-adams:4113 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!charon.amdahl.com!pacbell.com!att-out!rutgers!usc!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!spool.mu.edu!agate!doc.ic.ac.uk!uknet!mcsun!sunic!ugle.unit.no!alf.uib.no!ii.uib.no!bjornts From: bjornts@ii.uib.no (Bjoern Tore Sund) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.science,alt.alien.visitors,alt.fan.douglas-adams Subject: Re: Blue Lint from the Dryer Message-ID: <1992Nov15.021935.20368@alf.uib.no> Date: 15 Nov 92 02:19:35 GMT References: <1992Nov13.182917.22107@berlioz.nsc.com> Sender: usenet@alf.uib.no (Bergen University Newsaccount) Organization: Dept. of Informatics, University of Bergen Lines: 29 In article <1992Nov13.182917.22107@berlioz.nsc.com>, nelson@desktop.nsc.com (Taed Nelson) writes: |> It seems that whenever I wash and then dry my clothes that the "lint" (AKA |> "fluff") that gets caught in the "lint trap" is _always_ some shade of blue. |> I've seen very light blue (nearly white) and very dark blue. |> |> Last night, it was a medium-to-light blue, about the same color as the sky |> (I'm assuming that the sky is the same color everywhere -- I've only been to |> a few states and have never left the country :-), but the stuff I was drying |> was all _whites_. It was underwear and socks only, but still the lint was |> blue. There was no lint there when I put the clothes in, by the way. |> |> Now up to this point, I'd been a firm supporter of the conservation of color |> theory, which would propose that my clothes _in the other room_ would become |> less blue, but that's just not the case! |> |> Does anyone have any idea what is going one here? I've wondered about this |> weird thing for years... Now, _anyone_ with a certain level of education (i.e. who has read Douglas Adam's Hitch-hiker trilogy) would now, and be able to recognize this as the first trials of interstellar contact from the super-intelligent shade of blue of the planet - eh - eh - (What's the name again folks?). Sigh... -- ___ ___ __ |__) | Bjoern Tore Sund (BT) Quote: "Nothing!" |__) | bjornts@ii.uib.no - Marvin Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!charon.amdahl.com!pacbell.com!att-out!rutgers!usc!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!spool.mu.edu!agate!doc.ic.ac.uk!uknet!mcsun!sunic!ugle.unit.no!alf.uib.no!ii.uib.no!bjornts From: bjornts@ii.uib.no (Bjoern Tore Sund) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Monsters and Etc. Message-ID: <1992Nov15.022245.20483@alf.uib.no> Date: 15 Nov 92 02:22:45 GMT References: <69357@cup.portal.com> <69514@cup.portal.com> Sender: usenet@alf.uib.no (Bergen University Newsaccount) Organization: Dept. of Informatics, University of Bergen Lines: 12 In article <69514@cup.portal.com>, John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: |> Dear Big Foot Lovers: I have decided to change the subject we are |> talking about to Monsters and Etc. This will be about unusal animals |> and beings that are not normally talked about. |> John Winston We? Did anyone say we? I thought _you_ produced most of the stuff on the sex-life of the Bigfoot - at least in terms of Kbytes... -- ___ ___ __ |__) | Bjoern Tore Sund (BT) Quote: "Nothing!" |__) | bjornts@ii.uib.no - Marvin Xref: icaen alt.conspiracy:19918 alt.alien.visitors:11050 alt.conspiracy.jfk:3822 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!europa.asd.contel.com!darwin.sura.net!spool.mu.edu!agate!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!cleveland.Freenet.Edu!aq817 From: aq817@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Steve Crocker) Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy.jfk Subject: Re: JFK and BUSH Date: 15 Nov 1992 05:14:53 GMT Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA) Lines: 16 Message-ID: <1e4mcdINNoek@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu I want to make clear that when I posted the article, I had some question about the quality of the alleged interconnections. I do not consider it the best material available on the subject, it was merely what I had most readily available to post. I regret if my doing so has brought a general disrepute upon Kennedy conspiracy advocates in general, or those seeking to link George Bush to this crime in particular - both of which opinions I believe have merit despite the hyperbole and outright error of their more enthusiastic advocates. When I get a minute to track it down, I'll post the chapter from "The Unauthorized Biography of George Bush" which deals with the JFK connection. -Steve Xref: icaen alt.conspiracy:19920 alt.alien.visitors:11051 alt.conspiracy.jfk:3823 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!charon.amdahl.com!pacbell.com!sgiblab!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!cleveland.Freenet.Edu!aq817 From: aq817@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Steve Crocker) Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy.jfk Subject: Re: JFK and BUSH Date: 15 Nov 1992 05:32:59 GMT Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA) Lines: 1300 Message-ID: <1e4nebINNr39@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu The following material is part of a longer, book length series on George Bush originally posted on alt.activism. The book is by researchers Webster Tarpley and Anton Chaitkin, who are affiliated with the organization of jailed American dissident Lyndon LaRouche. My apologies to those on alt.alien.visitors, as I am unable to edit the "newsgroups" line which is inserted automatically by the newsreader here. Perhaps this is fate's way of indicating that George Bush really is from somewhere else. -Steve >From: covici@ccs.covici.com (John Covici) >Reply-To: covici@ccs.covici.com >Subject: Unauthorized Biography Of George Bush: Part 9 >Date: Wed Mar 25 05:26:46 1992 The following is part of a not yet published book being serialized in New Federalist. For further information, or to subscribe, please contact me by e-mail. If you missed the earlier postings, and would like to receive them, please contact me by e-mail and I will mail them to you. CHAPTER IX THE BAY OF PIGS AND THE KENNEDY ASSASSINATION ``JM/WAVE ... proliferated across [Florida] in preparation for the Bay of Pigs invasion. A subculture of fronts, proprietaries, suppliers, transfer agents, conduits, dummy corporations, blind drops, detective agencies, law firms, electronic firms, shopping centers, airlines, radio stations, the mob and the church and the banks: a false and secret nervous system twitching to stimuli supplied by the cortex in Clandestine Services in Langley. After defeat on the beach in Cuba, JM/WAVE became a continuing and extended Miami Station, CIA's largest in the continental United States. A large sign in front of the ... building complex reads: U.S. GOVERNMENT REGULATIONS PROHIBIT DISCUSSION OF THIS ORGANIZATION OR FACILITY.'' --Donald Freed, {Death in Washington} (Westport, Connecticut, 1980), p. 141. The review offered so far of George Bush's activities during the late 1950s and early 1960s is almost certainly incomplete in very important respects. There is good reason to believe that Bush was engaged in something more than just the oil business during those years. Starting about the time of the Bay of Pigs invasion in the spring of 1961, we have the first hints that Bush, in addition to working for Zapata Offshore, may also have been a participant in certain covert operations of the U.S. intelligence community. Such participation would certainly be coherent with George's role in the Prescott Bush, Skull and Bones, and Brown Brothers Harriman networks. During the twentieth century, the Skull and Bones/Harriman circles have always maintained a sizeable and often decisive presence inside the intelligence organizations of the State Department, the Treasury Department, the Office of Naval Intelligence, the Office of Strategic Services, and the Central Intelligence Agency. A body of leads has been assembled which suggests that George Bush may have been associated with the CIA at some time before the autumn of 1963. According to Joseph McBride of {The Nation,} ``a source with close connections to the intelligence community confirms that Bush started working for the agency in 1960 or 1961, using his oil business as a cover for clandestine activities.''@s1 By the time of the Kennedy assassination, we have an official FBI document which refers to ``Mr. George Bush of the Central Intelligence Agency,'' and despite official disclaimers, there is every reason to think that this is indeed the man in the White House today. The mystery of George Bush as a possible covert operator hinges on four points, each one of which represents one of the great political and espionage scandals of postwar American history. These four cardinal points are: 1. The abortive Bay of Pigs invasion of Cuba, launched on April 16-17, 1961, prepared with the assistance of the CIA's ``Miami Station'' (also known under the code name JM/WAVE). After the failure of the amphibious landings of Brigade 2506, Miami station, under the leadership of Theodore Shackley, became the focus for Operation Mongoose, a series of covert operations directed against Castro, Cuba, and possibly other targets. 2. The assassination of President John F. Kennedy in Dallas on November 22, 1963, and the coverup of those responsible for this crime. 3. The Watergate scandal, beginning with an April 1971 visit to Miami, Florida by E. Howard Hunt on the tenth anniversary of the Bay of Pigs invasion to recruit operatives for the White House Special Investigations Unit (the ``Plumbers'' and later Watergate burglars) from among Cuban-American Bay of Pigs veterans. 4. The Iran-Contra affair, which became a public scandal during October-November 1986, several of whose central figures, such as Felix Rodriguez, were also veterans of the Bay of Pigs. George Bush's role in both Watergate and the October Surprise/Iran-Contra complex will be treated in detail at later points in this book. Right now, it is important to see that thirty years of covert operations, in many respects, form a single continuous whole. This is especially true in regard to the {dramatis personae.} Georgie Anne Geyer points to the obvious in a recent book: `` ... an entire new Cuban cadre now emerged from the Bay of Pigs. The names Howard Hunt, Bernard Barker, Rolando Martinez, Felix Rodriguez and Eugenio Martinez would, in the next quarter century, pop up, often decisively, over and over again in the most dangerous American foreign policy crises. There were Cubans flying missions for the CIA in the Congo and even for the Portuguese in Africa; Cubans were the burglars of Watergate; Cubans played key roles in Nicaragua, in Irangate, in the American move into the Persian Gulf.''@s2 Felix Rodriguez tells us that he was infiltrated into Cuba with the other members of the ``Grey Team'' in conjunction with the Bay of Pigs landings; this is the same man we will find directing the Contra supply effort in Central America during the 1980s, working under the direct supervision of Don Gregg and George Bush.@s3 Theodore Shackley, the JM/WAVE station chief, will later show up in Bush's 1979-80 presidential campaign. To a very large degree, such covert operations have drawn upon the same pool of personnel. They are to a significant extent the handiwork of the same crowd. It is therefore revealing to extrapolate forward and backward in time the individuals and groups of individuals who appear as the cast of characters in one scandal, and compare them with the cast of characters for the other scandals, including the secondary ones that have not been enumerated here. E. Howard Hunt, for example, shows up as a confirmed part of the overthrow of the Guatemalan government of Jacopo Arbenz in 1954, as an important part of the chain of command in the Bay of Pigs, as a person repeatedly accused of having been in Dallas on the day Kennedy was shot, and as one of the central figures of Watergate. George Bush is demonstrably one of the most important protagonists of the Watergate scandal, and was the overall director of Iran-Contra. Since he appears especially in Iran-Contra in close proximity to Bay of Pigs holdovers, it is surely legitimate to wonder when his association with those Bay of Pigs Cubans might have started. 1959 was the year that Bush started operating out of his Zapata Offshore headquarters in Houston; it was also the year that Fidel Castro seized power in Cuba. Officially, as we have seen, George was now a businessman whose work took him at times to Louisiana, where Zapata had offshore drilling operations. George must have been a frequent visitor to New Orleans. Because of his family's estate on Jupiter Island, he would also have been a frequent visitor to the Hobe Sound area. And then, there were Zapata Offshore drilling operations in the Florida strait. The Jupiter Island connection and father Prescott's Brown Brothers Harriman/Skull and Bones networks are doubtless the key. Jupiter Island meant Averell Harriman, Robert Lovett, C. Douglas Dillon and other Anglophile financiers who had directed the U.S. intelligence community long before there had been a CIA at all. And, in the backyard of the Jupiter Island Olympians, and under their direction, a powerful covert operations base was now being assembled, in which George Bush would have been present at the creation as a matter of birthright. Operation Zapata During 1959-60, Allen Dulles and the Eisenhower administration began to assemble in south Florida the infrastructure for covert action against Cuba. This was the JM/WAVE capability, later formally constituted as the CIA Miami station. JM/WAVE was an operational center for the Eisenhower regime's project of staging an invasion of Cuba using a secret army of anti-Castro Cuban exiles, organized, armed, trained, transported, and directed by the CIA. The Cubans, called Brigade 2506, were trained in secret camps in Guatemala, and they had air support from B-26 bombers based in Nicaragua. This invasion was crushed by Castro's defending forces in less than three days. Before going along with the plan so eagerly touted by Allen Dulles, Kennedy had established the precondition that under no circumstances whatsoever would there be direct intervention by U.S. military forces against Cuba. On the one hand, Dulles had assured Kennedy that the news of the invasion would trigger an insurrection which would sweep Castro and his regime away. On the other, Kennedy had to be concerned about provoking a global thermonuclear confrontation with the U.S.S.R., in the eventuality that Nikita Khrushchev decided to respond to a U.S. Cuban gambit by, for example, cutting off U.S. access to Berlin. Hints of the covert presence of George Bush are scattered here and there around the Bay of Pigs invasion. According to some accounts, the code name for the Bay of Pigs was Operation Pluto.@s4 But Bay of Pigs veteran E. Howard Hunt scornfully denies that this was the code name used by JM/WAVE personnel; Hunt writes: ``So perhaps the Pentagon referred to the Brigade invasion as Pluto. CIA did not.''@s5 But Hunt does not tell us what the CIA code name was, and the contents of Hunt's Watergate-era White House safe, which might have told us the answer, were, of course, ``deep-sixed'' by FBI Director Patrick Gray. According to reliable sources and published accounts, the CIA code name for the Bay of Pigs invasion was Operation Zapata, and the plan was so referred to by Richard Bissell of the CIA, one of the plan's promoters, in a briefing to President Kennedy in the Cabinet Room on March 29, 1961.@s6 Does Operation Zapata have anything to do with Zapata Offshore? The run-of-the-mill Bushman might respond that Emiliano Zapata, after all, had been a public figure in his own right, and the subject of a recent Hollywood movie starring Marlon Brando. A more knowledgeable Bushman might argue that the main landing beach, the Playa Giron, is located south of the city of Cienfuegos on the Zapata Peninsula, on the south coast of Cuba. Then there is the question of the Brigade 2506 landing fleet, which was composed of five older freighters bought or chartered from the Garcia Steamship Lines, bearing the names of {Houston,} {Rio Escondido,} {Caribe,} {Atlantic,} and {Lake Charles.} In addition to these vessels, which were outfitted as transport ships, there were two somewhat better armed fire support ships, the {Blagar} and the {Barbara.} (In some sources {Barbara J.})@s7 The {Barbara} was originally an LCI (Landing Craft Infantry) of earlier vintage. Our attention is attracted at once to the {Barbara} and the {Houston,} in the first case because we have seen George Bush's habit of naming his combat aircraft after his wife, and, in the second case, because Bush was at this time a resident and Republican activist of Houston, Texas. But of course, the appearance of names like ``Zapata,'' ``Barbara,'' and ``Houston'' can by itself only arouse suspicion, and proves nothing. After the ignominious defeat of the Bay of Pigs invasion, there was great animosity against Kennedy among the survivors of Brigade 2506, some of whom eventually made their way back to Miami after being released from Castro's prisoner of war camps. There was also great animosity against Kennedy on the part of the JM/WAVE personnel. During the early 1950s, E. Howard Hunt had been the CIA station chief in Mexico City. As David Atlee Phillips (another embittered JM/WAVE veteran) tells us in his autobiographical account, {The Night Watch,} E. Howard Hunt had been the immediate superior of a young CIA recruit named William F. Buckley, the Yale graduate and Skull and Bones member who later founded the {National Review.} In his autobiographical account written during the days of the Watergate scandal, Hunt includes the following tirade about the Bay of Pigs: ``No event since the communization of China in 1949 has had such a profound effect on the United States and its allies as the defeat of the U.S.-trained Cuban invasion brigade at the Bay of Pigs in April 1961. ``Out of that humiliation grew the Berlin Wall, the missile crisis, guerrilla warfare throughout Latin America and Africa, and our Dominican Republic intervention. Castro's beachhead triumph opened a bottomless Pandora's box of difficulties that affected not only the United States, but most of its allies in the Free World. ``These bloody and subversive events would not have taken place had Castro been toppled. Instead of standing firm, our government pyramided crucially wrong decisions and allowed Brigade 2506 to be destroyed. The Kennedy administration yielded Castro all the excuse he needed to gain a tighter grip on the island of Jose@aa Marti, then moved shamefacedly into the shadows and hoped the Cuban issue would simply melt away.''@s8 Kennedy and MacArthur Hunt was typical of the opinion that the debacle had been Kennedy's fault, and not the responsibility of men like Allen Dulles and Richard Bissell, who had designed it and recommended it. After the embarrassing failure of the invasion, which never evoked the hoped-for spontaneous anti-Castro insurrection, Kennedy fired Allen Dulles, his Harrimanite deputy Bissell, and CIA Deputy Director Charles Cabell (whose brother was the mayor of Dallas at the time Kennedy was shot). During the days after the Bay of Pigs debacle, Kennedy was deeply suspicious of the intelligence community and of proposals for military escalation in general, including in places like South Vietnam. Kennedy sought to procure an outside, expert opinion on military matters. For this he turned to the former commander in chief of the Southwest Pacific Theatre during World War II, General Douglas MacArthur. Almost ten years ago, a reliable source shared with one of the authors an account of a meeting between Kennedy and MacArthur in which the veteran general warned the young President that there were elements inside the U.S. government who emphatically did not share his patriotic motives, and who were seeking to destroy his administration from within. MacArthur warned that the forces bent on destroying Kennedy were centered in the Wall Street financial community and its various tentacles in the intelligence community. It is a matter of public record that Kennedy met with MacArthur in the latter part of April 1961, after the Bay of Pigs. According to Kennedy aide Theodore Sorenson, MacArthur told Kennedy, ``The chickens are coming home to roost, and you happen to have just moved into the chicken house.''@s9 At the same meeting, according to Sorenson, MacArthur ``warned [Kennedy] against the commitment of American foot soldiers on the Asian mainland, and the President never forgot this advice.'' @s1@s0 This point is grudgingly confirmed by Arthur M. Schlesinger, a Kennedy aide who had a vested interest in vilifying MacArthur, who wrote that ``MacArthur expressed his old view that anyone wanting to commit American ground forces to the mainland [of Asia] should have his head examined.''@s1@s1 MacArthur restated this advice during a second meeting with Kennedy when the General returned from his last trip to the Far East in July 1961. Kennedy valued MacArthur's professional military opinion highly, and used it to keep at arms length those advisers who were arguing for escalation in Laos, Vietnam, and elsewhere. He repeatedly invited those who proposed to send land forces to Asia to convince MacArthur that this was a good idea. If they could convince MacArthur, then he, Kennedy, might also go along. At this time, the group proposing escalation in Vietnam (as well as preparing the assassination of President Diem) had a heavy Brown Brothers Harriman/Skull and Bones overtone: The hawks of 1961-63 were Harriman, McGeorge Bundy, William Bundy, Henry Cabot Lodge, and some key London oligarchs and theoreticians of counterinsurgency wars. And of course, George Bush during these years was calling for escalation in Vietnam and challenging Kennedy to ``muster the courage'' to try a second invasion of Cuba. In the meantime, the JM/WAVE-Miami station complex was growing rapidly to become the largest of Langley's many satellites. During the years after the failure of the Bay of Pigs, this complex had as many as 3,000 Cuban agents and subagents, with a small army of case officers to direct and look after each one. According to one account, there were at least 55 dummy corporations to provide employment, cover, and commercial disguise for all these operatives. There were detective bureaus, gun stores, real estate brokerages, boat repair shops, and party boats for fishing and other entertainments. There was the clandestine Radio Swan, later renamed Radio Americas. There were fleets of specially modified boats based at Homestead Marina, and at other marinas throughout the Florida Keys. Agents were assigned to the University of Miami and other educational institutions. The raison d'e@aftre of the massive capability commanded by Theodore Shackley was now Operation Mongoose, a program for sabotage raids and assassinations to be conducted on Cuban territory, with a special effort to eliminate Fidel Castro personally. In order to run these operations from U.S. territory, flagrant and extensive violation of federal and state laws was the order of the day. Documents regarding the incorporation of businesses were falsified. Income tax returns were faked. FAA regulations were violated by planes taking off for Cuba or for forward bases in the Bahamas and elsewhere. Explosives moved across highways that were full of civilian traffic. The Munitions Act, the Neutrality Act, the customs and immigrations laws were routinely flaunted.@s1@s2 Above all, the drug laws were massively violated as the gallant anticommunist fighters filled their planes and boats with illegal narcotics to be smuggled back into the United States when they returned from their missions. By 1963, the drug-running activities of the covert operatives were beginning to attract attention. JM/WAVE, in sum, accelerated the slide of south Florida towards the status of drug and murder capital of the United States it achieved during the 1980s. The Kennedy Assassination It cannot be the task of this study even to begin to treat the reasons for which certain leading elements of the Anglo-American financial oligarchy, perhaps acting with certain kinds of support from continental European aristocratic and neofascist networks, ordered the murder of John F. Kennedy. The British and the Harrimanites wanted escalation in Vietnam; by the time of his assassination Kennedy was committed to a pullout of U.S. forces. Kennedy, as shown by his American University speech of 1963, was also interested in seeking a more stable path of war avoidance with the Soviets, using the U.S. military superiority demonstrated during the Cuban missile crisis to convince Moscow to accept a policy of world peace through economic development. Kennedy was interested in the possibilities of anti-missile strategic defense to put an end to that nightmare of Mutually Assured Destruction which appealed to Henry Kissinger, a disgruntled former employee of the Kennedy administration whom the President had denounced as a madman. Kennedy was also considering moves to limit or perhaps abolish the usurpation of authority over the national currency by the Wall Street and London interests controlling the Federal Reserve System. If elected to a second term, Kennedy was likely to reassert presidential control, as distinct from Wall Street control, over the intelligence community. There is good reason to believe that Kennedy would have ousted J. Edgar Hoover from his purported life tenure at the FBI, subjecting that agency to presidential control for the first time in many years. Kennedy was committed to a vigorous expansion of the space program, the cultural impact of which was beginning to alarm the finance oligarchs. Above all, Kennedy was acting like a man who thought he was President of the United States, violating the collegiality of oligarchical trusteeship of that office that had been in force since the final days of Roosevelt. Kennedy furthermore had two younger brothers who might succeed him, putting a strong presidency beyond the control of the the Eastern Anglophile Liberal Establishment for decades. George Bush joined in the Harrimanite opposition to Kennedy on all of these points. After Kennedy was killed in Dallas on November 22, 1963, it was alleged that E. Howard Hunt and Frank Sturgis had both been present, possibly together, in Dallas on the day of the shooting, although the truth of these allegations has never been finally established. Both Hunt and Sturgis were of course Bay of Pigs veterans who would later appear center stage in Watergate. There were also allegations that Hunt and Sturgis were among a group of six to eight derelicts who were found in boxcars sitting on the railroad tracks behind the grassy knoll near Dealey Plaza, and who were rounded up and taken in for questioning by the Dallas police on the day of the assassination. Some suspected that Hunt and Sturgis had participated in the assassination. Some of these allegations were at the center of the celebrated 1985 defamation case of {Hunt v. Liberty Lobby,} in which a Florida federal jury found against Hunt. But, since the Dallas Police Department and County Sheriff never photographed or fingerprinted the ``derelicts'' in question, it has so far proven impossible definitively to resolve this question. But these allegations and theories about the possible presence and activities of Hunt and Sturgis in Dallas were sufficiently widespread as to compel the Commission on CIA Activities Within the United States (the Rockefeller Commission) to attempt to refute them in its 1975 report.@s1@s3 According to George Bush's official biography, he was during 1963 a well-to-do businessman residing in Houston, the busy president of Zapata Offshore and the chairman of the Harris County Republican Organization, supporting Barry Goldwater as the GOP's 1964 presidential candidate, while at the same time actively preparing his own 1964 bid for the U.S. Senate. But during that same period of time, Bush may have shared some common acquaintances with Lee Harvey Oswald. The De Mohrenschildt Connection Between October 1962 and April 1963, Lee Harvey Oswald and his Russian wife Marina were in frequent contact with a Russian emigre@aa couple living in Dallas: These were George de Mohrenschildt and his wife Jeanne. During the Warren Commission investigation of the Kennedy assassination, De Mohrenschildt was interviewed at length about his contacts with Oswald. When, in the spring of 1977, the discrediting of the Warren Commission report as a blatant coverup had made public pressure for a new investigation of the Kennedy assassination irresistible, the House Assassinations Committee planned to interview De Mohrenschildt once again. But in March 1977, just before de Mohrenschildt was scheduled to be interviewed by Gaeton Fonzi of the House committee's staff, he was found dead in Palm Beach, Florida. His death was quickly ruled a suicide. One of the last people to see him alive was Edward Jay Epstein, who was also interviewing De Mohrenschildt about the Kennedy assassination for an upcoming book. Epstein is one of the writers on the Kennedy assassination who enjoyed excellent relations with the late James Angleton of the CIA. If de Mohrenschildt were alive today, he might be able to enlighten us about his relations with George Bush, and perhaps afford us some insight into Bush's activities during this epoch. Jeanne De Mohrenschildt rejected the finding of suicide in her husband's death. ``He was eliminated before he got to that committee,'' the widow told a journalist in 1978, ``because someone did not want him to get to it.'' She also maintained that George de Mohrenschildt had been surreptitiously injected with mind-altering drugs.@s1@s4 After De Mohrenschildt's death, his personal address book was located, and it contained this entry: ``Bush, George H.W. (Poppy) 1412 W. Ohio also Zapata Petroleum Midland.'' There is of course the problem of dating this reference. George Bush had moved his office and home from Midland to Houston in 1959, when Zapata Offshore was constituted, so perhaps this reference goes back to some time before 1959. There is also the number: ``4-6355.'' There are, of course, numerous other entries, including one W.F. Buckley of the Buckley brothers of New York City, William S. Paley of CBS, plus many oil men, stockbrokers, and the like.@s1@s5 George De Mohrenschildt recounted a number of different versions of his life, so it is very difficult to establish the facts about him. According to one version, he was the Russian Count Sergei De Mohrenschildt, but when he arrived in the United States in 1938 he carried a Polish passport identifying him as Jerzy Sergius von Mohrenschildt, born in Mozyr, Russia in 1911. He may in fact have been a Polish officer, or a correspondent for the Polish News Service, or none of these. He worked for a time for the Polish Embassy in Washington, D.C. Some say that de Mohrenschildt met the chairman of Humble Oil, Blaffer, and that Blaffer procured him a job. Other sources say that during this time De Mohrenschildt was affiliated with the War Department. According to some accounts, he later went to work for the French Deuxie@agme Bureau, which wanted to know about petroleum exports from the United States to Europe. De Mohrenschildt in 1941 became associated with a certain Baron Konstantin von Maydell in a public affairs venture called ``Facts and Film.'' Maydell was considered a Nazi agent by the FBI, and in September 1942 he was sent to North Dakota for an internment that would last four years. De Mohenschildt was also reportedly in contact with Japanese networks at this time. In June 1941, De Mohrenschildt was questioned by police at Port Arthur, Texas, on the suspicion of espionage after he was found making sketches of port facilities. During 1941, De Mohrenschildt applied for a post in the U.S. Office of Strategic Services (OSS). According to the official account, he was not hired. Soon after he made the application, he went to Mexico where he stayed until 1944. In the latter year, he began study for a master's degree in petroleum engineering at the University of Texas. According to some accounts, during this period De Mohrenschildt was investigated by the Office of Naval Intelligence because of alleged communist sympathies. After the war, De Mohrenschildt worked as a petroleum engineer in Cuba and Venezuela, and in Caracas he had several meetings with the Soviet ambassador. During the postwar years, he also worked in the Rangely oil field in Colorado. During the 1950s, after having married Winifred Sharpless, the daughter of an oil millionaire, de Mohrenschildt was active as an independent oil entrepreneur. In 1957, De Mohrenschildt was approved by the CIA Office of Security to be hired as a U.S. government geologist for a mission to Yugoslavia. Upon his return he was interviewed by one J. Walter Moore of the CIA's Domestic Contact Service, with whom he remained in contact. During 1958, de Mohrenschildt visited Ghana, Togo, and Dahomey (now Benin); during 1959, he visited Africa again and returned by way of Poland. In 1959, he married Jeanne, his fourth wife, a former ballet dancer and dress designer who had been born in Manchuria, where her father had been one of the directors of the Chinese Eastern Railroad. During the summer of 1960, George and Jeanne De Mohrenschildt told their friends that they were going to embark on a walking tour of 11,000 miles along Indian trails from Mexico to Central America. One of their principal destinations was Guatemala City, where they were staying at the time of the Bay of Pigs invasion in April 1961, after which they made their way home by way of Panama and Haiti. After two months in Haiti, the De Mohrenschildts returned to Dallas, where they came into contact with Lee Harvey Oswald, who had come back to the United States from his sojourn in the Soviet Union in June 1962. By this time, de Mohrenschildt was also in frequent contact with Admiral Henry C. Bruton and his wife, to whom he introduced the Oswalds. Admiral Bruton was the former director of naval communications. It is established that between October 1962 and late April 1963, de Mohrenschildt was a very important figure in the life of Oswald and his Russian wife. Despite Oswald's lack of social graces, De Mohrenschildt introduced him into Dallas society, took him to parties, assisted him in finding employment and much more. It was through De Mohrenschildt that Oswald met a certain Volkmar Schmidt, a young German geologist who had studied with Professor Wilhelm Kuetemeyer, an expert in psychosomatic medicine and religious philosophy at the University of Heidelberg, who compiled a detailed psychological profile of Oswald. Jeanne and George helped Marina move her belongings during one of her many estrangements from Oswald. According to some accounts, De Mohrenschildt's influence on Oswald was so great during this period that he could virtually dictate important decisions to the young ex-Marine simply by making suggestions. According to some versions, de Mohrenschildt was aware of Oswald's alleged April 10, 1963 attempt to assassinate the well-known right-wing General Edwin Walker. According to Marina, De Mohrenschildt once asked Oswald, ``Lee, how did you miss General Walker?'' On April 19, George and Jeanne De Mohrenschildt went to New York City, and on April 29, the CIA Office of Security found that it had no objection to De Mohrenschildt's acceptance of a contract with the Duvalier regime of Haiti in the field of natural resource development. De Mohrenschildt appears to have departed for Haiti on May 1, 1963. In the meantime, Oswald had left Dallas and traveled to New Orleans. According to Mark Lane, ``there is evidence that De Mohrenschildt served as a CIA control officer who directed Oswald's actions.'' Much of the extensive published literature on de Mohrenschildt converges on the idea that he was a control agent for Oswald on behalf of some intelligence agency.@s1@s6 It is therefore highly interesting that George Bush's name turns up in the personal address book of George de Mohrenschildt. The Warren Commission went to absurd lengths to cover up the fact that George De Mohrenschildt was a denizen of the world of the intelligence agencies. This included ignoring the well-developed paper trail on De Mohrenschildt as Nazi and communist sympathizer, and later as a U.S. asset abroad. The Warren Commission concluded: ``The Commission's investigation has developed no signs of subversive or disloyal conduct on the part of either of the de Mohrenschildts. Neither the FBI, CIA, nor any witnesses contacted by the Commission has provided any information linking the De Mohrenschildts to subversive or extremist organizations. Nor has there been any evidence linking them in any way with the assassination of President Kennedy.''@s1@s7 Bush, the CIA, and Kennedy On the day of the Kennedy assassination, FBI records show George Bush as reporting a right-wing member of the Houston Young Republicans for making threatening comments about President Kennedy. According to FBI documents released under the Freedom of Information Act, ``On November 22, 1963 Mr. GEORGE H.W. BUSH, 5525 Briar, Houston, Texas, telephonically advised that he wanted to relate some hear say that he had heard in recent weeks, date and source unknown. He advised that one JAMES PARROTT had been talking of killing the President when he comes to Houston. ``PARROTT is possibly a student at the University of Houston and is active in politics in the Houston area.'' According to related FBI documentation, ``a check with Secret Service at Houston, Texas revealed that agency had a report that PARROTT stated in 1961 he would kill President Kennedy if he got near him.'' Here Bush is described as ``a reputable businessman.'' FBI agents were sent to interrogate Parrott's mother, and later James Milton Parrott himself. Parrott had been discharged from the U.S. Air Force for psychiatric reasons in 1959. Parrott had an alibi for the time of the Dallas shootings; he had been in the company of another Republican activist. According to press accounts, Parrott was a member of the right-wing faction of the Houston GOP, which was oriented toward the John Birch Society and which opposed Bush's chairmanship.@s1@s8 According to the {San Francisco Examiner,} Bush's press office in August 1988 first said that Bush had not made any such call, and challenged the authenticity of the FBI documents. Several days later Bush's spokesman said that the candidate ``does not recall'' placing the call. One day after he reported Parrott to the FBI, Bush received a highly sensitive, high-level briefing from the Bureau: ``Date: November 29, 1963 ``To: Director of Intelligence and Research Department of State ``From: John Edgar Hoover, Director ``Subject: ASSASSINATION OF PRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY, NOVEMBER 22, 1963 ``Our Miami, Florida Office on November 23, 1963 advised that the Office of Coordinator of Cuban Affairs in Miami advised that the Department of State feels some misguided anti-Castro group might capitalize on the present situation and undertake an unauthorized raid against Cuba, believing that the assassination of President John F. Kennedy might herald a change in U.S. policy, which is not true. ``Our sources and informants familiar with Cuban matters in the Miami area advise that the general feeling in the anti-Castro Cuban community is one of stunned disbelief and, even among those who did not entirely agree with the President's policy concerning Cuba, the feeling is that the President's death represents a great loss not only to the U.S. but to all Latin America. These sources know of no plans for unauthorized action against Cuba. ``An informant who has furnished reliable information in the past and who is close to a small pro-Castro group in Miami has advised that those individuals are afraid that the assassination of the President may result in strong repressive measures being taken against them and, although pro-Castro in their feelings, regret the assassination. ``The substance of the foregoing information was orally furnished to Mr. George Bush of the Central Intelligence Agency and Captain William Edwards of the Defense Intelligence Agency on November 23, 1963, by Mr. W.T. Forsyth of this Bureau.'' William T. Forsyth, since deceased, was an official of the FBI's Washington headquarters; during the time he was attached to the bureau's subversive control section, he ran the investigation of Dr. Martin Luther King. Was he also a part of the FBI's harassment of Dr. King? The efforts of journalists to locate Captain Edwards have not been successful. This FBI document identifying George Bush as a CIA agent in November 1963 was first published by Joseph McBride in {The Nation} in July 1988, just before Bush received the Republican nomination for President. McBride's source observed: ``I know [Bush] was involved in the Caribbean. I know he was involved in the suppression of things after the Kennedy assassination. There was a very definite worry that some Cuban groups were going to move against Castro and attempt to blame it on the CIA.''@s1@s9 When pressed for confirmation or denial, Bush's spokesman Stephen Hart commented: ``Must be another George Bush.'' Within a short time, the CIA itself would peddle the same damage control line. On July 19, 1988, in the wake of wide public attention to the report published in {The Nation,} CIA spokeswoman Sharron Basso departed from the normal CIA policy of refusing to confirm or deny reports that any person is or was a CIA employee. CIA spokeswoman Basso told the Associated Press that the CIA believed that ``the record should be clarified.'' She said that the FBI document ``apparently'' referred to a George William Bush who had worked in 1963 on the night shift at CIA headquarters, and that ``would have been the appropriate place to have received such an FBI report.'' According to her account, the George William Bush in question had left the CIA to join the Defense Intelligence Agency in 1964. For the CIA to volunteer the name of one of its former employees to the press was a shocking violation of traditional methods, which are supposedly designed to keep such names a closely guarded secret. This revelation may have constituted a violation of federal law. But no exertions were too great when it came to damage control for George Bush. George William Bush had indeed worked for the CIA, the DIA, and the Alexandria, Virginia Department of Public Welfare before joining the Social Security Administration, in whose Arlington, Virginia office he was employed as a claims representative in 1988. George William Bush told {The Nation} that while at the CIA he was ``just a lowly researcher and analyst'' who worked with documents and photos and never received interagency briefings. He had never met Forsyth of the FBI or Captain Edwards of the DIA. ``So it wasn't me,'' said George William Bush.@s2@s0 Later, George William Bush formalized his denial in a sworn statement to a federal court in Washington, D.C. The affidavit acknowledges that while working at CIA headquarters between September 1963 and February 1964, George William Bush was the junior person on a three- to four-man watch which was on duty when Kennedy was shot. But, as George William Bush goes on to say, ``have carefully reviewed the FBI memorandum to the Director, Bureau of Intelligence and Research, Department of State dated November 29, 1963 which mentions a Mr. George Bush of the Central Intelligence Agency.... I do not recognize the contents of the memorandum as information furnished to me orally or otherwise during the time I was at the CIA. In fact, during my time at the CIA, I did not receive any oral communications from any government agency of any nature whatsoever. I did not receive any information relating to the Kennedy assassination during my time at the CIA from the FBI. ``Based on the above, it is my conclusion that I am not the Mr. George Bush of the Central Intelligence Agency referred to in the memorandum.''@s2@s1 So we are left with the strong suspicion that the ``Mr. George Bush of the CIA'' referred to by the FBI is our own George Herbert Walker Bush, who, in addition to his possible contact with Lee Harvey Oswald's controller, may thus also join the ranks of the Kennedy assassination coverup. It makes perfect sense for George Bush to be called in on a matter involving the Cuban community in Miami, since that is a place where George has traditionally had a constituency. George inherited it from his father, Prescott Bush of Jupiter Island, and later passed it on to his own son, Jeb. Notes to Chapter 9 1. Joseph McBride, ``|`George Bush,' C.I.A. Operative,'' {The Nation} July 16, 1988. 2. Georgie Anne Geyer, {Guerrilla Prince} (Boston: Little, Brown, 1991). 3. Felix Rodriguez, {Shadow Warrior} (New York: Simon and Schuster, 1989). 4. On Pluto, see the East German study by Guenter Schumacher, {Operation Pluto} (Berlin, Deutscher Milita@aurverlag, 1966). 5. E. Howard Hunt, {Give Us This Day} (New Rochelle: Arlington House, 1973), p. 214. 6. For Operation Zapata, see Michael R. Beschloss, {The Crisis Years: Kennedy and Khrushchev, 1960-63} (New York: Edward Burlingame Books, 1991), p. 89. 7. For the names of the ships at the Bay of Pigs, see Quintin Pino Machado, {La Batalla de Giron} (La Habana: Editorial de Ciencias Sociales, 1983), pp. 79-80. This source quotes one ship as the ``Barbara J.'' See also Schumacher, {Operation Pluto,} pp. 98-99. See also Peter Wyden, {Bay of Pigs, The Untold Story} (New York: Simon and Schuster, 1979), which also has the ``Barbara J.'' According to Quintin Pino Machado, the ``Houston'' had been given the new name of ``Aguja'' (Swordfish) and the ``Barbara'' that of ``Barracuda'' for the purposes of this operation. 8. E. Howard Hunt, {op. cit.,} pp. 13-14. 9. Theodore Sorenson, {Kennedy} (New York: Bantam, 1966), p. 329. 10. {Ibid.,} p. 723. 11. Arthur M. Schlesinger, {A Thousand Days} (Boston, 1965), p. 339. 12. See Warren Hinckle and William W. Turner, {The Fish is Red} (New York: Harper and Row, 1981), pp. 112 ff. 13. {Report to the President by the Commission on CIA Activities Within the United States} (Washington: U.S. Government Printing Office, 1975), pp. 251-267. 14. Jim Marrs, ``Widow disputes suicide,'' {Fort Worth Evening Star-Telegram,} May 11, 1978. 15. A photocopy of George de Mohrenschildt's personal address book is preserved at the Assassination Archives and Research Center, Washington, D.C. The Bush entry is also cited in Mark Lane, {Plausible Denial} (New York: Thunder's Mouth Press, 1991), p. 332. 16. For De Mohrenschildt, see Mark Lane, {op. cit.}; Edward Jay Epstein, {Legend: The Secret World of Lee Harvey Oswald} (London: Hutchinson, 1978); C. Robert Blakey and Richard N. Billings, {The Plot to Kill the President} (New York: Times Books, 1981); and Robert Sam Anson, {``They've Killed The President!''} (New York: Bantam, 1975). 17. {Report of the Warren Commission on the Assassination of President Kennedy} (New York: Bantam, 1964), p. 262. 18. Miguel Acoca, ``FBI: `Bush' called about JFK killing,'' {San Francisco Examiner,} Aug. 25, 1988. 19. Joseph McBride, ``|`George Bush,' CIA Operative,'' {The Nation,} July 16/23, 1988, p. 42. 20. Joseph McBride, ``Where {Was} George?'' {The Nation,} Aug. 13/20, 1988, p. 117. 21. United States District Court for the District of Columbia, Civil Action 88-2600 GHR, Assassination Archives and Research Center v. Central Intelligence Agency, Affidavit of George William Bush, Sept. 21, 1988. ---- Please respond by e-mail as I get very far behind in reading this newsgroup. John Covici covici@ccs.covici.com -Steve Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12712 alt.alien.visitors:11052 sci.skeptic:34142 alt.butt.harp:311 alt.religion.kibology:4645 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!charon.amdahl.com!pacbell.com!att-out!rutgers!usc!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!news.Brown.EDU!noc.near.net!mv!world!kibo From: kibo@world.std.com (James "Kibo" Parry) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic,alt.butt.harp,alt.religion.kibology Subject: Re: Space Craft Without Pants... IN BED! Message-ID: Date: 15 Nov 92 06:05:04 GMT References: <69419@cup.portal.com> <69492@cup.portal.com> Organization: Two rooms filled with typography, in downtown Boston Lines: 22 [alt.alien.visitors] In article <69492@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: > The people in our solar system use a inter planetary >language called Solar Max. Gee, how interesting. They named their WHOLE LANGUAGE after an old NASA satellite! >It's sort of the same way we use Latin >as an international language. We do? What century are you in? Do you have a thing called a passport? Ever read the ingredients on imported food? >I will now close with solar language >and say goodbye and may God be with you. Adona Vasu Baragus. Barangus! Mondo bazoomo! Wox wox wox oggle grebbly nad bork bork bock fnord egrep roff gnogin fsck zowie, ecky-THUMP! Please post a Solar Max dictionary so we can learn to communicate. -- K. Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:11053 alt.butt.harp:312 alt.religion.kibology:4659 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!europa.asd.contel.com!darwin.sura.net!sgiblab!munnari.oz.au!ariel.ucs.unimelb.EDU.AU!ariel.ucs.unimelb.EDU.AU!not-for-mail From: rab@ariel.ucs.unimelb.EDU.AU (Richard Alan Brown) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.butt.harp,alt.religion.kibology Subject: Re: Space Craft Without Pants... IN BED! Date: 15 Nov 1992 21:30:46 +1100 Organization: School of Physics, University of Melbourne Lines: 21 Sender: afs@tauon.ph.unimelb.edu.au Message-ID: <1e58smINNfvc@ariel.ucs.unimelb.EDU.AU> References: <69492@cup.portal.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ariel.ucs.unimelb.edu.au Summary: John_Winston@off.the.freaking.planet Keywords: duh heheheh ..... nice to see Joh_Winston is getting some airplay away from sci.skeptic. I'm still not convinced the sucker isnt a poorly programmed AI project. Whenever I feel a little jaded (like now, when I've spent the day marking first year exam papers.. ) I wander over to sci.skeptic, and there he is, blathering about out of body experiences, and his world famous astral-train. That man was born with an intellectual kick-me sign tatooed to his forehead. He should post to alt.peeves, and see how long his new-age jabbering lasts. Those people in sci.skeptic are mighty polite to him (why *is* that), but there's one thing you can say for him, he's reliable. I can thoroughly recommend reading some of his posts, it's like watching a chimp masturbating at a zoo, you feel somehow repelled, yet fascinated. Alistair afs@tauon.ph.unimelb.edu.au Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!europa.asd.contel.com!emory!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!usc!rpi!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uunet.ca!hombas!joseph.daniels From: joseph.daniels@homebase.com (Joseph Daniels) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Need Alien Three repost PLEASE!!! Message-ID: <1590.479.uupcb@homebase.com> Date: 15 Nov 92 04:28:00 GMT Distribution: world Organization: Home Base BBS - St. Thomas, Ontario - 519-633-7253 Reply-To: joseph.daniels@homebase.com (Joseph Daniels) Lines: 142 To: tm8025a@american.edu From: homebas!Joseph.daniels@uunet.ca TM|The three part Alien post that was up recently was hacked some how by my |server. If someone could post the third part I would appreciate it. `------------------------------------------------------------------------ I'm going to re-post the entire file for the benefit of those that might not know what you are talking about. Hope no one minds. - - - VARIETIES OF ALIEN BEINGS KNOWN TO "INTERACT" WITH HUMANS AND SUPPOSEDLY INVOLVED IN INFLUENCING HUMAN AFFAIRS. By David House ALIEN TYPE 1: THE GREYS: Of this type there are several sub-types. All tend to appear greyish in color and for this reason are referred to as "greys." GREY TYPE A: This is the type most commonly referred to as the greys. Also known as Zeta Reticuli from the Zeta Reticulan star system (the Bernard star) neighboring the Orion area. They function in a mode that is apparently military in nature with a rigidly defined social structure that holds science and "conquering worlds" to be the prime movers. They are normally about 4.5 ft. tall with large heads and black "wrap around" eyes. They have limited facial features, slit mouth and no nose to speak of. They have evolved beyond the need for reproductive systems or digestive systems and reproduce by cloning. Their genetics are partly based on insectoidal genetics. Their science deals largely with the study of other life forms and genetic engineering. They have supposedly had a part to play in the alteration of human genetics over thousands of years. It seems that they may be trying to cross breed with humans in order to create a "mixture race" that would be better than either. (I've read that they are a dying species, that have cloned so much that now, with each successive cloning, the species grows weaker. They are trying to infuse new life into their species by creating the mixed breed.) There seem to be two main social classes. One is the more hawkish and is more abrupt, crude and blunt. The more dove-like ones are more refined and capable of a more business-like behavior towards humans, and prefer to use more "diplomatic" behavior to gain control over human's. This type of Grey is what I believe is being referred to as the "Orange" class of Greys. They seem to be emotionless (by human standards) and therefore are seen as cruel in their treatment of human beings. They are able to take human lives without any regard for that individual. They apparently can use certain substances of the human body for their sustenance and therefore appear to be carnivorous in regards to humans. (I also read that they extract fluid from some part of the human brain during intense emotional response [fear] and are able to use it like a recreational drug.) It is my understanding that these greys are actually servants to a master race of reptilian-type aliens and are trying to prepare the earth for their arrival by gaining control over the earth through many means. They tend to enjoy the feeling of freedom they have on earth, away from their masters and would desire the help of humans in confrontations with the reptilians...which appears to be a consideration for the near future (mid 90's.) These greys have their best known bases in New Mexico and Nevada but are also known to have bases in many countries of the world. GREY TYPE B: Tall Greys from Orion. Usually about 7 to 8 ft. tall (reports often exaggerate their height as being 9 to 12 ft.) with facial feature somewhat similar to grey type A with the exception of the large nose found on type B greys. These greys also have technologies that allow them to perform certain actions that appear "miraculous." These greys are less viscous towards humans than type A greys (but are still considered "hostile".) They tend to influence more through political controls and negotiated agreements with those in power. Their main bases seem to be in the Aleutian Islands. These are the type seen not long ago in Eastern Russia. GREY TYPE C: These are the shortest of the greys and tend to be about 3.5 ft. tall. Their facial features are very similar to the Zeta Reticuli greys and are of the same "root race.". They are just as hostile to humans as the Zetas. They are from a star system near the shoulder of Orion called Bellatrax. .pa ALIEN TYPE 2: THE REPTILIANS: A genetics akin to reptiles, these are highly advanced entities but viewed as being of a negative, hostile or dangerous disposition since they regard humans as a totally inferior race. They would perceive us much the way we would perceive a herd of cattle. They are carnivorous in regard to humans. There is supposedly a "driven" planetoid or asteroid inhabited by 30 million of these lizard-folk that is to enter our solar system in the mid 90's if the present schedule is kept. They consider earth to be their own ancient outpost and would expect to have complete control of the entire planet upon their return. Their own planet is becoming unable to adequately support life and they need somewhere else to live. These are the aliens who are served by the type A greys. .pa ALIEN TYPE 3: HUMAN TYPE ALIENS HUMAN TYPE A: These are of a genetic base similar to humans of earth. They appear of "normal" height (5-6ft.?) and tend to be fair-skinned with blonde hair. These entities have been abducted by the greys or are the offspring of abductees and have been trained by the greys as servants. These entities are totally subservient to the greys. HUMAN TYPE B: These are aliens of similar genetics to earth humans and also, it seems, of the humans that serve the greys. These are from the Pleiades and are also of the blonde, fair- skinned appearance. This type is of a genuine highly evolved, spiritual, benevolent variety and have a kinship toward humans and are the only aliens to be truly trusted by earth humans at this time. They had at one time offered to be of assistance to earth leaders in dealing with the alien situation here but were rebuffed and so have taken a kind of "hands off" approach for the time being. These aliens are supposedly the forefather race of humankind. These are apparently not on earth much at this time due to serious problems in the area of their home. HUMAN TYPE C: Very little is known about these. They are supposedly another of the highly evolved, spiritual type of great benevolence to earth humans. I understand that their appearance is similar to other human-type aliens. They are from Sirius and don't appear to be much involved with earth happenings at this time other than being concerned about the Grey scenario. They could desire to be of help to humans. There are other known human type aliens of this "more highly spiritually evolved" nature that are apparently aware of the situation on earth and considering some possible course of action. These are from Arcturus and Vega. --- . SLMR 2.1a . InfoNet London (519)649-1453 (Hit ^C and enter HELP at $ Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!europa.asd.contel.com!emory!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!usc!rpi!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uunet.ca!hombas!joseph.daniels From: joseph.daniels@homebase.com (Joseph Daniels) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Mind Control of UFOs Message-ID: <1592.479.uupcb@homebase.com> Date: 15 Nov 92 04:49:00 GMT Distribution: world Organization: Home Base BBS - St. Thomas, Ontario - 519-633-7253 Reply-To: joseph.daniels@homebase.com (Joseph Daniels) Lines: 17 From: homebas!Joseph.daniels#uunet.ca To: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com |Pat once had an experience of seeing a UFO that just |appeared as a light at night. He was able to watch the light and it |would respond to his thoughts to move from one place to the other |while he watched it for about 5 or more minutes... `---------------------------------------------------------------- According to many first hand accounts like those described in Budd Hopkins books "Intruders" or "Misssing Time" and Ed Walters of "Gulf Beeze" fame, many people claim that the UFOs can read their thoughts and move/react to them. --- . SLMR 2.1a . Can I put you on hold?... Bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz... Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!europa.asd.contel.com!emory!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!usc!rpi!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uunet.ca!hombas!joseph.daniels From: joseph.daniels@homebase.com (Joseph Daniels) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Groom Lake/Project Red Light Message-ID: <1593.479.uupcb@homebase.com> Date: 15 Nov 92 04:55:00 GMT Distribution: world Organization: Home Base BBS - St. Thomas, Ontario - 519-633-7253 Reply-To: joseph.daniels@homebase.com (Joseph Daniels) Lines: 16 From: homebas!Joseph.daniels@uunet.ca To: CRJ14530@acuvax.acu.edu (Judd Christopher R.) JCR|I was just wondering if anyone had any information about the possibility |of saucers flying over Groom Lake in Nellis AFB in Nevada. `------------------------------------------------------------------------ There's tons of stuff but I don't have any as ASCII files. One of the best books on the subject would be the two by Tim Good "Above Top Secret" and "Alien Liason". He is a very good and well respected researcher that has "looked into" Government involvement with Extraterrestrial Aliens (or EBEs as the Government calls them.) --- . SLMR 2.1a . Don't put Descarte before the horse. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!europa.asd.contel.com!emory!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!usc!rpi!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uunet.ca!hombas!joseph.daniels From: joseph.daniels@homebase.com (Joseph Daniels) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Out Planet Message-ID: <1591.479.uupcb@homebase.com> Date: 15 Nov 92 04:40:00 GMT Distribution: world Organization: Home Base BBS - St. Thomas, Ontario - 519-633-7253 Reply-To: joseph.daniels@homebase.com (Joseph Daniels) Lines: 16 From: homebas!Joseph.daniels#uunet.ca To: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com JO|Dear Space People Watchers: The people from other planets as far as |I have been told will give a sun a name (some of them call our |sun Shan) and we are considered to be the third orbit from our sun |unless you count Vulcan so we are the number three orbit planet of `------------------------------------------------------------------- It's my understanding that most Aliens count the planets from the outside-inward starting with Pluto. I guess they do it that way because for them it would be like passing exits on the freeway... --- . SLMR 2.1a . Free Software Online London (519)686-7786 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!spool.mu.edu!agate!doc.ic.ac.uk!uknet!warwick!coventry!coakley From: coakley@cch.coventry.ac.uk (Cpl.Flash ) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Bill Clinton and UFOs? Message-ID: Date: 15 Nov 92 11:43:57 GMT References: <1992Nov12.041403.16826@netcom.com> <1992Nov12.152620.8391@odin.corp.sgi.com> <1992Nov12.235958.21692@news2.cis.umn.edu> Sender: news@cck.coventry.ac.uk (news user) Organization: Coventry University Lines: 17 Nntp-Posting-Host: cc_sysh In article <1992Nov12.235958.21692@news2.cis.umn.edu> gslars@staff.tc.umn.edu () writes: >In article <1992Nov12.152620.8391@odin.corp.sgi.com> rodb@slugo.corp.sgi.com (Rod Beckwith) writes: >> >>Mabye the Authors of the FAQ could put together a PETITION for all >>interested in this group, possibly others, to send to Pres-elect Clinton. >>What do you all think? I'm only a humble English guy, Interested in U.F.O's, but i would be interested in having a go at your new President. If you want to read a good book on U.F.O's, then try "ABOVE TOP SECRET" and "ALIEN LIASON" which are both by Timothy Good. I was a skeptic until i read them, and then met Mr.Good at a signing. They are well worth a look in. Love to everyone in the U.S.A.! Garrett Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Monsters and Etc. Message-ID: <69560@cup.portal.com> Date: Sun, 15 Nov 92 07:37:54 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) Distribution: world References: <69357@cup.portal.com> <69443@cup.portal.com> <69514@cup.portal.com> Lines: 42 Subject: Flying Whatsit. What has a 40 foot windspan, flys and screams like everything? I don't know either but they are seeing them down in Peru. A remote village high on the snowcapped slopes of the Andes Mountains of Peru is being ravaged by winged creatures that ruled the skies before the dawn of man-the flying dinosaurs know as pterodactyls! Until recently, the monstrous flying reptiles, believed to have been extinct for more than 120 million years, had attacked only the villagers llama herds, but there is grisly new evidence that humans are falling prey to their savage fury. Over the past seven months, at least four different pterodactyls have been seen attacking the llama herds and menacing the herders. The largest of those is said to have a wingspan of beteeren 35 and 40 feet - about the size of a single-engine Cessana plane "This entire situation simply staggers the mind", declared Department of Interior spokesman Gustava Legula, "I have been in the village of San Pasco and I have see the flying giants with my own eyes. They are a creation of the devil himself. These are the descendants of the flying dragons that lived in the time of the dinosaurs. They were the largest creature ever to soar above the earth before they became extinct millions and millions of years ago, and yet they are here today in Peru, living in the caves of the mountains. Tkhey have almost wiped out the llama herds and now, they have also taken human lives. Legula explained that villagers have failed to return to their homes after setting out in search of the flying reptiles. Although no bodies have been found, the tattered and blood stained remains of their clothing have been recovered from the rugged slopes where pterodactyls have frequently been seen. Villager Guillermo Bejar was tending his llama herd early one morning when three of the prehistoric monsters swooped out of the sky and attacked him and his animals. There is no warning when they attack. They plucked my poor animals from the ground and carried them to their death. Bejar, one of about a dozen villagers who has witnessed the savage attacks barely excaped with his life as the pterodactyls carried off his llama herd. It is known that pterodactyls lived in this part of the world during the Jurassic and Cretaceous periods. Their fossils have been found not only in South America but in North Ameriaca as well. This is me (John Winston) speaking now. Did you ever hear of such a thing in your life? The next thing they will be saying is that these things are being seen a little ways from Malibu, Calif. Well I never---. John Winston. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12715 alt.alien.visitors:11060 sci.skeptic:34149 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Greys, Good or Bad Message-ID: <69561@cup.portal.com> Date: Sun, 15 Nov 92 08:23:23 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> Lines: 33 Subject: Greys, Good or Bad? Some people have been wondering if these Greys are good guys or bad. Please let me give you the information that has come my way on this subject. It seems that the guardians who are responsible for this part of space found out that there was a group of people who had developed in one area of the intellect a little too far. The Greys has become so far developed in the logic side of life that they didn't have any emotional side left. They also had a digestive system that wasn't very functional either. It seems that they use animal matter such as intestines, blood and what have you and subject this to a chemical reaction to come up with something they can obsorb. My friend Harley Byrd calls it Bobcat Stew. It's not made out of Bobcat but it is what a Bobcat would like to eat. The Guardians looked around to find a race or culture of people who were emotional and you guess it they picked us. We are so emotional it's pityful. We also have strong stomacks. If it doesn't bite us back we will eat it. The next thing that happened was the Guadians opened up a network or system so the Greys could come through and make it to us. The Grey made a deal with our government. You give us technology and we'll let you experiment with our poeple and breed with them, just give us a list of how many you are taking and bring them back in good condition. This went along pretty good for a while until they started taking too many people (2,000) ever so often and not bringing some of them back. Now our government wants out of the deal and has started the Operation Awareness in which they are going to try to tell the truth to the public as to what is going on. Please don't think that this is something that I alone know about. This is all written up in magazines like UFO Universe and the government knows all about their operation. So I would say the Greys are not exactly bad. They have an IQ of about 300 and are very logical. They consider us to be very much like one of our scientist thinks when he operates and experiments with a rabbit. Some of the Grey are really nice people but the ones we are dealing with are about like most of our scientists. John Winston Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12716 alt.alien.visitors:11061 sci.skeptic:34150 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!sybus.sybus.com!myrddin!tct!chip From: chip@tct.com (Chip Salzenberg) Subject: Re: Space Craft Without Pants Message-ID: <2B0683A6.7DE2@tct.com> Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1992 17:06:46 GMT References: <69419@cup.portal.com> <69492@cup.portal.com> Organization: TC Telemanagement, Clearwater, FL Lines: 7 According to John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com: >...and say goodbye and may God be with you. Adona Vasu Baragus. Klaatu Barada Nicto! -- Chip Salzenberg at Teltronics/TCT , <73717.366@compuserve.com> just another elitist Usenet administrator Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!think.com!spool.mu.edu!news.cs.indiana.edu!lynx!carina.unm.edu!praveen From: praveen@carina.unm.edu (parveen j seph.quintero sinaha) Subject: Re: Bill Clinton and UFOs? Message-ID: Date: Sun, 15 Nov 92 15:54:21 GMT Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque References: <1992Nov12.152620.8391@odin.corp.sgi.com> <1992Nov12.235958.21692@news2.cis.umn.edu> Sender: praveen@carina.unm.edu Lines: 5 Wait, why is everyone talking as if Bill Clinton doesnt know about the coverup? Has no one been paying attention to the powers higher than MJ-12? Bill Clinton is a North American member of the Trilateralist Commision (along with George Bush, and quite a few others), and *must* know about the aliens... Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12718 alt.alien.visitors:11063 sci.skeptic:34159 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!stanford.edu!CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU!Xenon.Stanford.EDU!amorgan From: amorgan@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Crunchy Frog) Subject: Re: Space Craft Without Pants Message-ID: <1992Nov15.220130.10777@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> Sender: news@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University. References: <69492@cup.portal.com> <2B0683A6.7DE2@tct.com> Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1992 22:01:30 GMT Lines: 15 In article <2B0683A6.7DE2@tct.com> chip@tct.com (Chip Salzenberg) writes: >According to John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com: >>...and say goodbye and may God be with you. Adona Vasu Baragus. > >Klaatu Barada Nicto! Eeeeeeeeeeee-yakaboo What I think is amazing is that the alien language can be written in English text without any diacriticals or anything fancy. For BEMs I would expect at least something along the lines of: A!%lo^a pBxt ZZy`vit fmN!g C Frog Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!know!cass.ma02.bull.com!think.com!rpi!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!psuvax1!psuvm!swk105 From: SWK105@psuvm.psu.edu (Stephen Kuhn) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. Message-ID: <92320.155010SWK105@psuvm.psu.edu> Date: 15 Nov 92 20:50:10 GMT Organization: Penn State University Lines: 62 From: Rob Farquhar, temp. using this account. It's amazing how little you people really know about what you're talking ab out. this is not arrogance, but experience talking. I am a scientist/astronom er as well as a contactee. First of all, let me tell you a little about stars. Don't let anybody tell you that the aliens come from the Pleidaes cluster. Th ose stars are far to young. They just emerged from the nebula a few million ye ars ago, and they're too young, and too close together for planets to form. The same goes for stars like Sirius and Rigel, except that they're too big an d too hot. Dwarf stars like Barnard's star are too small and too cold, and their "life z ones"(the boundaries within which a livable planet can form) are too near their surfaces. The best stars to find life around are yellow main sequence stars like our ow n sun- not too hot, not too cold, not too prone to flares. There are several st ars within the nearest 100 light years that fit this description. They are: ALPHA CENTAURI A ALPHA CENTAURI B EPSILON ERIDANI 61 CYGNI A 61 CYGNI B EPSILON INDI TAU CETI NU CASSIOPEA PHI ORIONI BETA TRIANGULUM AUSTRALE ALPHA HYDRI GAMMA VIRGONIS ALPHA CIRCINUS BETA CAPRICORNI. I won't tell you which of these has life around it, that would be cheating. But I know. You see, I was "picked up" for the first time several years ago, a nd taken to a small world one-eighth of the way around the galaxy. It is inhabi ted by the Darvosians, the "little grey men" of myth and legend. They are non- hostile, and very interested in the development of other species. They were mos t cooperative and instructing (by the way, faster-than-light travel makes human s nauseous). They informed me of the existence of the twelve starfaring races of the galaxy (those species which have developed ftl travel. They include: The Abercan, a reptilian race reminiscent of hooded cobras The Darvosians, grey humanoids descended from (nobody knows) The Kaheew, a catlike warrior race kind of like Niven's fictional KZIN The N'gusat-ahh, bovine centaurlike creatures The Farhipti, other grey beings descended from sharks The Skark, bigfoot/wookie looking docile critters The Cante'la, upright walking versions of trilobites The Anarhooksat, telekinetic squidlike beasts that must carry water with them in their ships The Roorpa, pteranodon-like gliders The Xrxquim, isolationist humanoids with greatly enlarged craniums The Hurrparansilar, elaphantine creatures, and The Banarflista, ten-legged mollusks with weapon legs, eating legs, and walking legs There are many other non-starfaring intelligent races, including ours. I have maps of many systems (hand-drawn duplicates of hard copy), The locations of th e races, the map of the Darvosian system, and of Darvos itself. More: all humans DID evolve from the same ancestral race. None are of extra- terrestrial origin. The Kelts, not the Aryans, are the most-contacted people. (I don't know why). The aliens were most certainly not involved with the constr uction of the pyramids or other ancient artifacts. We didn't need help. More to come. Now I have to go to the core, to monitor the explosion. Don't worry. you've got 20,000 years. R.A.F. II (The sequel) Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!math.fu-berlin.de!fub!tpki.toppoint.de!galki.toppoint.de!ulrich From: ulrich@galki.toppoint.de (Ulrich Gall) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: *SUMMARY: Please help me! _What_ was that? PLEASE READ! Message-ID: Date: Sun, 15 Nov 92 14:53:11 GMT Distribution: world Organization: private UUCP site, Kiel, Germany Lines: 101 Dear a.a.v readers, first of all, I would like to apologize to everyone who read my original posting about the Russian UFO. THE WHOLE STORY IS A LIE. I have never been in Russia in all my life. ------------------------- I posted this to find out how people react and whether people would believe a story like this. I DID NOT DO THIS TO MAKE FUN OF ANYONE. I do believe that it is very well possible that we have had contact with aliens. I realize that many of you are not really impressed to say the least. My main concern is that, after now reading that it was all fake, all those people who offered to help me won't believe the next guy who posts a story which is true. So please, KEEP ON BELIEVING THOSE PEOPLE SERIOUSLY POSTING TO THIS GROUP. I was very impressed by the help so many people offered, and I really felt bad about them offering their help to someone who lied to them. I thank all of you who did answer to my posting. I got a total of 5 replies, the two follow-ups and a phone call from a guy from Germany. Here is what they told me: -------------------------- 1) One guy guessed it was a Russian classified vertical takeoff aircraft. 2) Two of them wanted to know more about the "sample", where it was now etc. > ... you might describe these more fully. What do they weigh? What > size? What shape? Greyish, as in dark or light grey? Dull or > bright? Weathered, machined? [I was actually describing a chunk of Silicon I took from an aluminum plant. It is really strange stuff - very hard, but still metal-like. I was going to give some more hints after reading some of the followups (like "it's got a resistance of 500 Ohms from one end to the other"), but I didn't want to lie to you any further. 3) One concern also mentiuoned was about preserving what I found. This is of course very important, and I would recommend everyone hiding A PART of something alien they found right away and not even tell anyone about it until the time has come. 4) Two people mentioned that in Russia, UFOlogy has been taken much more seriously than in the West. 5) One advice I got that makes sense was TO TAKE SOME SOIL OF AN ENCOUNTER SIGHT to check for radiation and bacteria. 6) A Special thanks to Garrett for this offer (A follow-up, I hope you don't mind me reposting your adress.): > Send a sample of that rock to me, and we will to some FTICR/MS, Xray > fluoresence and other tests on it and see what it is made of: > > Dr. Garrett Van Cleef > Laser Spectroscopy Facility > Department of Chemistry > Box 234 > The Ohio State University > Columbus, OH 43210 7) The guy who called me recommended a german book about all this and gave me the adress of a german UFO organization. A special thanks to you. ----- Generally, I was surprised that everyone believed me. Please keep this up! I am confident that anyone who experinced something like this can post and people will help him. Of course, almost everyone wanted more info. For your amusement, here is what I was planning on telling them: ____ ____ ____ The clouds looked like this:-(____)-(____)-(____)-. The sound was 1-2Hz. Of course this was supposed to match the "Pulser" aircraft mentioned in the FAQ. The sample was Silicon (see above). The picture disappeared when I had them developed (MIBs?) I picked Russia because it makes it harder to check if it really happened. Again, sorry about all of this, hoping that some of what I found was interesting for you, Ulrich Ulrich B. Gall, Seebrooksberg 2, W-2300 Klausdorf, Germany Tel.: +49-431-790292, EMail: ulrich@galki.toppoint.de Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12720 alt.alien.visitors:11066 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: UFOs and Newage Message-ID: <69579@cup.portal.com> Date: Sun, 15 Nov 92 17:08:05 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) Distribution: world References: <64264@cup.portal.com> Lines: 56 Subject: Lone Pine Pyramid. Part 3. Here is some more information that was sent to me by letter about the storehouse; The storehouse is buried under the rocks of the Alabama Hillls west of town (probubly about 50 feet of rock cover the building.) The is Mrs. Curtis talking; On finding this I was made to know that it is for the New Age and not for this greedy, evil generation. Hence not over a half dozen people in this town know of its existence. Over 100 people have stood on the apex of the storehouse. I have told only the Children of Light and of the New Age about it, and it will be a favor to me if you do not reveal the fact of its existenc to any but a New Age person. Now then concerning it I was given the revelation about it one night feeling the impulse to sit up in bed and write on the pad I kept under my pillow. I was given explicit directions as where to find it, and with a few others who were visiting me at the time, did locate it. Power that was invested in its building still issues from the apex, or from the level ground that covers the apex. It can be felt travel up thru the body and in some cases charges the body anew. Not all feel it that strong, but almost all feel it to some extent. This is me (John Winston) talking now. After getting the information from Mrs. Clurtis I made a telephone call over to their house. Mr. Curtis said that his wife had just died a few days before that time. I prevailed on him to show me the site and he told me to come on over. I showed up and went into the back yard to check out the alter that was supposed to have energy coming from it. When I came back to Mr. Curtis I told him that his wife's spirit was still in the back yard. He then agreed with me and said that he knew that his wife was still in the area. Mr. Curtis showed me out to the site. I later came back to the area of the pyramid and put up some information in a can. I also put some plastic cement (like concrete) on the side of a large rodck showing figures that are from Lemuria that were found in a book by Col Churchword or Churchward. I feel that the pyramid will be opened about 2,008 or when ever we progress to the point where we won't just take the items inside the storehouse and sell them. I will be glad to tell or show anyone who is interested in the pyramid where it is as long as they can prove to me that they are part of the group that built it or they are a Worker of Light. I'll know if they can be trusted. John Winston End Part 3. that his wife's spirit 3wass cw 2meEE , UPA Vr8PU$,V$ef 9cJK,%x{x3xRx kxxx_ xExUxcxex Vr8PU$,V$ef 9cJK,< 0Roman 10cpiconcrete) on thws isde of a large rodckc showing figures that are from Lemuria. that were found in a boook by Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!van-bc!cs.ubc.ca!destroyer!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!ira.uka.de!ira.uka.de!math.fu-berlin.de!news.netmbx.de!Germany.EU.net!mcsun!sun4nl!hacktic!blackhl!stycx!peter From: peter@stycx.hacktic.nl (Author) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Monuments of Mars Message-ID: <3Je9TB1w165w@stycx.hacktic.nl> Date: Sat, 14 Nov 92 05:41:37 PST References: Organization: River of Doom. Running through Central Holland Lines: 40 esi102@cck.coventry.ac.uk (The Magician) writes: > > > >In article <1992Nov4.160042.25890@engage.pko.dec.com>, stanley@verga.enet.de > > >Well, that's really silly. Why would anyone in their right mind carve faces > >in the side of a mountain?? > > To confuse the hell out of anyone who see's it? > Some strange vortex effect of the martian wind (a la crop circles)? > Someone got there before us ? > Mass electronic phycosis/hysteria ? > > Who can say ! > > Tim. > esi102@uk.ac.cov.cck > Dreams fade, but nightmares live forever. Well to be perfectly honest, the question as why somebody would carve faces in mountains should not be that difficult to answer considering the we carved the faces of some presidents into a mountain side. Now it is not that I'm saying that we are looking at the face of some Martain President, or do we. I think that the main question is are we looking at a face or are we seeing something we wish to see. To me , after looking at some pictures, unfortunately in a book, I we tend to believe that the image is to clear to be explained as a halucination or a projection of our desire to hook up with an alien civilisation. Personally I would like to obtain some better data on the subject, if somebody out there could get me just that I would be most happy. Greetings peter@stycx.hacktic.nl ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- peter@stycx.hacktic.nl (5W) Crawling out from the river of darkness into your own private pinball machine Call STYCX (Waffle 1.65) from 23:00 to 06:00 Central European Time Number +31-3404-59551 Newkid Intown the nastiest Sysop arround Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!van-bc!cs.ubc.ca!destroyer!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!ira.uka.de!ira.uka.de!math.fu-berlin.de!news.netmbx.de!Germany.EU.net!mcsun!sun4nl!hacktic!blackhl!stycx!peter From: peter@stycx.hacktic.nl (Author) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Need Alien Three repost PLEASE!!! Message-ID: <2ug9TB2w165w@stycx.hacktic.nl> Date: Sat, 14 Nov 92 06:31:24 PST References: <1992Nov12.210236.17959@paladin.american.edu> Organization: River of Doom. Running through Central Holland Lines: 12 tm8025a@american.edu writes: > The three part Alien post that was up recently was hacked some how by my > server. If someone could post the third part I would appreciate it. Yes I would like that to. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- peter@stycx.hacktic.nl (5W) Crawling out from the river of darkness into your own private pinball machine Call STYCX (Waffle 1.65) from 23:00 to 06:00 Central European Time Number +31-3404-59551 Newkid Intown the nastiest Sysop arround Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!van-bc!cs.ubc.ca!destroyer!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!ira.uka.de!ira.uka.de!math.fu-berlin.de!unidui!Germany.EU.net!mcsun!sun4nl!hacktic!blackhl!stycx!peter From: peter@stycx.hacktic.nl (Author) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Visits etc. Message-ID: Date: Sat, 14 Nov 92 07:11:29 PST Organization: River of Doom. Running through Central Holland Lines: 26 Seems there is a lot of talk going regarding the indentity of that what is unindentified. Most people somehow have the idea that all form of live would answer to the laws of the manifest order (explicate). A feeling which keeps creeping up in my mind, is that many, commonly regarded as unreasonable observations, should be seen in the context of, for example, Shambalah a kingdom which can be visited by those who are ready for it. Recently I read that accoording to the current Dalai Lama, who by the way is a very educated person, Shambalah is a fact. Now the idea of a hidden kingdom, somewhere on this Earth is evidently becoming increasingly unlikely. There are however some striking similaritis between the tales of those who were ready, reached the required level of spirituality, to visit the hidden kingdom, and those who for some reason or the other were selected for a close encounter with UFO's. The question is now whether it is reasonable to supose that, this readiness, is in fact the level to which the person is prone to halucinations, or to which the person reached an awareness wich allows her/him to interact whithin a higher actuality. I would be very interested in the opinions concerning these questions are. Greetings peter@stycx.hacktic.nl ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- peter@stycx.hacktic.nl (5W) Crawling out from the river of darkness into your own private pinball machine Call STYCX (Waffle 1.65) from 23:00 to 06:00 Central European Time Number +31-3404-59551 Newkid Intown the nastiest Sysop arround Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!haven.umd.edu!darwin.sura.net!wupost!usc!news.service.uci.edu!ucivax!news.claremont.edu!nntp-server.caltech.edu!magney From: kanga.caltech.edu!magney (Michael Agney) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Space Craft Without Pants... IN BED! Date: 15 Nov 1992 19:48:44 GMT Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena Lines: 30 Message-ID: <1e69isINNe0n@gap.caltech.edu> References: <1e58smINNfvc@ariel.ucs.unimelb.EDU.AU> NNTP-Posting-Host: scratchy.caltech.edu Originator: magney@scratchy In article <1e58smINNfvc@ariel.ucs.unimelb.EDU.AU> rab@ariel.ucs.unimelb.EDU.AU (Richard Alan Brown) writes: > I'm still not convinced the sucker isnt a poorly programmed AI project. > I think he's a human being that's just having us on. > Those people in sci.skeptic are mighty polite to him (why > *is* that), but there's one thing you can say for him, he's reliable. > I don't know about anyone else in sci.skeptic, but I personally feel he's doing no harm. > I can thoroughly recommend reading some of his posts, it's like watching a > chimp masturbating at a zoo, you feel somehow repelled, yet fascinated. > Doesn't repel me, really. It's just interesting seeing the sort of thing human beings will claim to believe. (I still think he's having us on.) -- | Michael Agney | "Well, if we were to build a | | | giant badger..." | | | - Monty Python and the | | magney@cco.caltech.edu | search for the Holy Grail | -- | Michael Agney | "Well, if we were to build a | | | giant badger..." | | | - Monty Python and the | | magney@cco.caltech.edu | search for the Holy Grail | Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!haven.umd.edu!darwin.sura.net!wupost!usc!news.service.uci.edu!ucivax!news.claremont.edu!nntp-server.caltech.edu!magney From: kanga.caltech.edu!magney (Michael Agney) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Bill Clinton and UFOs? Date: 15 Nov 1992 19:53:14 GMT Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena Lines: 23 Message-ID: <1e69raINNeb0@gap.caltech.edu> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: scratchy.caltech.edu Originator: magney@scratchy In article praveen@carina.unm.edu (parveen j seph.quintero sinaha) writes: > higher than MJ-12? Bill Clinton is a North American member of the > Trilateralist Commision (along with George Bush, and quite a few others), > and *must* know about the aliens... "Trilateralist Commission"? Hey, this sounds an awful lot like the Tripartite that Lee Correy talks about in his book "Manna". Conspiracy buffs should read "Manna" solely for the description of the Tripartite. It's an economic conspiracy consisting of the NorthAmerican-European powers that I almost find believable. -- | Michael Agney | "Well, if we were to build a | | | giant badger..." | | | - Monty Python and the | | magney@cco.caltech.edu | search for the Holy Grail | -- | Michael Agney | "Well, if we were to build a | | | giant badger..." | | | - Monty Python and the | | magney@cco.caltech.edu | search for the Holy Grail | Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!news.centerline.com!noc.near.net!news.Brown.EDU!qt.cs.utexas.edu!yale.edu!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!csus.edu!netcom.com!jeffp From: jeffp@netcom.com (Jeff) Subject: Re: Bill Clinton and UFOs? Message-ID: <1992Nov16.021109.27888@netcom.com> Organization: BeHereNow References: <1e69raINNeb0@gap.caltech.edu> Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 02:11:09 GMT Lines: 26 In article <1e69raINNeb0@gap.caltech.edu> kanga.caltech.edu!magney (Michael Agney) writes: > >"Trilateralist Commission"? Hey, this sounds an awful lot like the >Tripartite that Lee Correy talks about in his book "Manna". Conspiracy >buffs should read "Manna" solely for the description of the Tripartite. >It's an economic conspiracy consisting of the NorthAmerican-European >powers that I almost find believable. Actually, some of the best information about the Bilderburgers, the Council on Foriegn Relations (CFR), the Trilateralists Commission, and the Committee of 300 can be found in the following books: The Committee of 300 Dr. John Coleman (There are two different versions being printed, one by the Greens, and one is Joseph Publishing.) The Cosmic Conspiracy Stan Deyo (ex-patriat FBI agent and AirForce Accadamy cadet) Behold a Pale Horse Bill Cooper (Dubious author perhaps, but he has done a lot of home work, no matter what you think of his UFO claims.) If you don't know something of the above groups, you should. Jeff- Xref: icaen alt.folklore.science:4001 alt.alien.visitors:11073 alt.fan.douglas-adams:4131 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.science,alt.alien.visitors,alt.fan.douglas-adams Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!haven.umd.edu!darwin.sura.net!wupost!psuvax1!uxa.ecn.bgu.edu!garrot.DMI.USherb.CA!newsflash.concordia.ca!nstn.ns.ca!news.ucs.mun.ca!cs.mun.ca!irma.cs.mun.ca!kirsten From: kirsten@irma.cs.mun.ca (Kirsten Starcher) Subject: Re: Blue Lint from the Dryer Message-ID: <1992Nov15.161736.25926@cs.mun.ca> Sender: usenet@cs.mun.ca (NNTP server account) Organization: CS Dept., Memorial University of Newfoundland References: <1992Nov13.182917.22107@berlioz.nsc.com> <1992Nov15.021935.20368@alf.uib.no> Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1992 16:17:36 GMT Lines: 20 In article <1992Nov15.021935.20368@alf.uib.no> bjornts@ii.uib.no (Bjoern Tore Sund) writes: >In article <1992Nov13.182917.22107@berlioz.nsc.com>, nelson@desktop.nsc.com (Taed Nelson) writes: >|> It seems that whenever I wash and then dry my clothes that the "lint" (AKA >|> "fluff") that gets caught in the "lint trap" is _always_ some shade of blue. >Now, _anyone_ with a certain level of education (i.e. who has read Douglas >Adam's Hitch-hiker trilogy) would now, and be able to recognize this as the >first trials of interstellar contact from the super-intelligent shade of blue >of the planet - eh - eh - (What's the name again folks?). I don't think it says what the planet is, but the color is known as a Hooloovoo... ............................................................................. .Kirsten Starcher...............................Your breath is steaming up... .kirsten@irma.cs.mun.ca.........................my contact lenses............ .kirsten@morgan.ucs.mun.ca................................................... .................Memorial University, St. John's, Newfoundland............... ...This posting brought to you by the letters f, y, v, and the number i...... ............................................................................. Xref: icaen soc.culture.new-zealand:4673 alt.alien.visitors:11074 Newsgroups: soc.culture.new-zealand,alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!nwnexus!markmc From: markmc@halcyon.com (Mark McWiggins) Subject: NZ UFO reports in mainstream press, 1989? Message-ID: <1992Nov16.022727.11619@nwnexus.WA.COM> Sender: sso@nwnexus.WA.COM (System Security Officer) Organization: Northwest Nexus Inc. (206) 455-3505 Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 02:27:27 GMT Lines: 11 An acquaintance mentioned something about a bizarre series of UFO reports coming out of New Zealand in 1989, allegedly including guys wearing "USAF" jumpsuits getting out of a crash-landed craft. Does this ring a bell for anyone? If so, could you post a summary and/or pointers to the relevant press accounts? Thanks in advance. -- Mark McWiggins Hermes & Associates +1 206 632 1905 (voice) markmc@halcyon.com Box 31356, Seattle WA 98103-1356 +1 206 632 1738 (fax) Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!spool.mu.edu!olivea!news.bbn.com!ulowell!woods.ulowell.edu!lewish From: lewish@woods.ulowell.edu Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Monuments of Mars Message-ID: <1992Nov15.221812.1@woods.ulowell.edu> Date: 16 Nov 92 03:18:12 GMT References: <1992Nov4.160042.25890@engage.pko.dec.com> <11256@platypus.uofs.uofs.edu> Sender: usenet@ulowell.ulowell.edu (News manager - ulowell) Organization: University of Lowell Lines: 21 In article <11256@platypus.uofs.uofs.edu>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: > In article <1992Nov4.160042.25890@engage.pko.dec.com>, stanley@verga.enet.dec.com (Hail Eris) writes: > |> > |> I've got a hunch there is more than one face and that the Mars observer will > |> verify that and the existence of other artifacts. > |> > > Well, that's really silly. Why would anyone in their right mind carve faces > in the side of a mountain?? > > bill > > -- > > Bill Gunshannon | If this statement wasn't here, > bill@cs.uofs.edu | This space would be left intentionally blank > | #include We do. Why not them ? (If it is them, and i'm not saying it is!) Henry Lewis Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!uwm.edu!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!csus.edu!netcom.com!jeffp From: jeffp@netcom.com (Jeff) Subject: BeamShip Pictures (Billy Meir) available Message-ID: <1992Nov16.041404.23415@netcom.com> Organization: BeHereNow Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 04:14:04 GMT Lines: 76 These are the descriptions from the Ed Billy Meir pictures I have posted to alt.binaries.pictures.misc. If you have a jpeg viewer, you can view these on any type of computer. If you don't have a jpeg viewer, read the FAQ in above group, or a.b.p or a.b.p.utilities for DOS, Mac, and X viewers, and Windows too. I have a jpeg viewer for the Mac, and if you need it you can get it from sumex-aim.stanford.edu or if you have not ftp access, mail me and i will post it where everyone can find it. If you know more about these picture, like what J. Vallee has to say about them and if he has presented evidence they are fake, etc. please post that information. I for one, after extensive reading, and talking with Wendle Stevens, Bob Brown, and Michael Lindemann, feel they are real pictures of real IFO's... I don't mind hearing your opinion, but please be polite, and base it on something other than, "Since UFO's don't exist, they can't be true photos". thanks, jeff- This is a picture of Edward Billy Mier's UFO picture of a BeamShip behind a tree, in front of the sun. This picture could not be a double exposure, and tests done at Nasa and JPL by Bob Oechler indicate it is not a trick photo by any means known... It was taken by a poor, one-armed farmer in Switzerland, in 1976 or so. Let it suffice to say, long before desk-top image processing was available to anyone. Make up your own mind, but keep this in mind about this particular shot: The ship is behind the tree, it is infront of the sun. The object in the photo has to be the size it appears to be, based on the tests done at JPL, so it is unlikely that a one-armed person could be suspending 15ft wide models above trees and taking pictures of them. This shot is from the book, Contact from the Pleiades, and I do recommend taking a look at it. Genesis III Publishing, Munds Park, AZ. *********************************************************** This is the famous "wood-pile" shot. I think this is one of the better pictures, so much green grass and beauty in it. There are several variations in the beamships depicted here, one more fact that makes it more unlikely that these shots could be faked. He would have to hide 5 different large models somewhere accessable, and be able to move them to the different locations depicted here. An interesting annectdote related to this is that he owned only an motor scooter when these shots were taken... +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ This is a blowup at about 3000% of one of the beamships. It has been determiced by laser infretometry (sp) that the light reflected off the bottom in all of these shots is that of the grass below, that there is noticable "bluing" from the distance between the object and the camera, water vapor and mist, etc. Thus, if they were faked, it would be beyond most photo expert's ability to do it, and Billy Mier is no photo expert. The camera used is a simple 35mm, I don't think it is an SLR even, since most SLR's are too big for him to opperate with only one hand... +++++------------------************************************** This is a shot of a Swiss AF jet making a pass by the beamship. The jet made over a dozen passes, and this was recorded by audio tape. The beamship finally just blinked-out, and was gone! ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ This is a nice shot of a variation 5 beamship in the winter, with snow on the mountains. Nice close proximity. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12722 alt.alien.visitors:11077 sci.skeptic:34176 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!sybus.sybus.com!myrddin!tct!chip From: chip@tct.com (Chip Salzenberg) Subject: Re: Space Craft Without Pants Message-ID: <2B071473.7420@tct.com> Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 03:24:35 GMT References: <69492@cup.portal.com> <2B0683A6.7DE2@tct.com> <1992Nov15.220130.10777@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> Organization: TC Telemanagement, Clearwater, FL Lines: 10 According to amorgan@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Crunchy Frog): >For BEMs I would expect at least something along the lines of: > > A!%lo^a pBxt ZZy`vit fmN!g > Hey! Smile when you say that! -- Chip Salzenberg at Teltronics/TCT , <73717.366@compuserve.com> just another elitist Usenet administrator Xref: icaen alt.folklore.science:4004 alt.alien.visitors:11078 alt.fan.douglas-adams:4132 alt.magnus.and.ketil:31 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.science,alt.alien.visitors,alt.fan.douglas-adams,alt.magnus.and.ketil Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!sunic!ugle.unit.no!alf.uib.no!alf.uib.no!ketil From: ketil@ii.uib.no (Ketil M. Malde) Subject: Re: Blue Lint from the Dryer In-Reply-To: bjornts@ii.uib.no's message of Sun, 15 Nov 92 02:19:35 GMT Message-ID: Sender: usenet@alf.uib.no (Bergen University Newsaccount) Reply-To: ketil@ii.uib.no Organization: student of numerical analysis at the University of Bergen, Norway References: <1992Nov13.182917.22107@berlioz.nsc.com> <1992Nov15.021935.20368@alf.uib.no> Date: 16 Nov 92 02:05:24 Lines: 28 In article <1992Nov13.182917.22107@berlioz.nsc.com>, nelson@desktop.nsc.com (Taed Nelson) writes: |> It seems that whenever I wash and then dry my clothes that the "lint" (AKA |> "fluff") that gets caught in the "lint trap" is _always_ some shade of blue. |> I've seen very light blue (nearly white) and very dark blue. [...] |> Does anyone have any idea what is going one here? I've wondered about this |> weird thing for years... >>>>> On Sun, 15 Nov 92 02:19:35 GMT, bjornts@ii.uib.no (Bjoern Tore Sund) said: BT> Now, _anyone_ with a certain level of education (i.e. who BT> has read Douglas Adam's Hitch-hiker trilogy) would now, BT> and be able to recognize this as the first trials of BT> interstellar contact from the super-intelligent shade of BT> blue of the planet - eh - eh - (What's the name again BT> folks?). Ah, didn't you know super-intelligent colors are no longer the fashion? Now it's smart *drugs*! I wonder how they communicate, I spent half of last evening talking to our medicine locker, but didn't get much of a response, I'm afraid. Has anyone actually made contact with this rare and wonderful species? -- = Ketil Malde In real life: ketil@ii.uib.no = = Nuke the whales! Honk if you love unicorns! = Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!news.service.uci.edu!ucivax!news.claremont.edu!nntp-server.caltech.edu!keith From: keith@cco.caltech.edu (Keith Allan Schneider) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Monuments of Mars Date: 16 Nov 1992 04:49:32 GMT Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena Lines: 15 Message-ID: <1e798sINNqvh@gap.caltech.edu> References: <1992Nov4.160042.25890@engage.pko.dec.com> <11256@platypus.uofs.uofs.edu> <1992Nov15.221812.1@woods.ulowell.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: punisher.caltech.edu >> |> I've got a hunch there is more than one face and that the Mars observer will >> |> verify that and the existence of other artifacts. >> Well, that's really silly. Why would anyone in their right mind carve faces >> in the side of a mountain?? >We do. Why not them ? (If it is them, and i'm not saying it is!) Mt. Rushmore (and Crazy Horse) are insignificant in size compared to the Mars Structure. In fact, this thing would only be observable from the air, probably (since it *does* seem to be looking outward). Reminds me of those Indian art things in NEw Mexico (or wherever). Of course, its more likely that the thing is just a natural artifact. keith Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!rpi!batcomputer!reed!henson!news.u.washington.edu!ns1.nodak.edu!warp6.cs.misu.NoDak.edu!skar From: skar@warp6.cs.misu.NoDak.edu (Keith M. Skar) Subject: Info Needed Sender: usenet@ns1.nodak.edu (News login) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 05:31:18 GMT Nntp-Posting-Host: warp6.cs.misu.nodak.edu Organization: Minot State University -- Minot, ND. Lines: 5 A friend of mine would like to find out all he can about Area 51....Is there a FAQ or a ftp site for this newsgroup. Or can anybody send me some Info... Thanks Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mnemosyne.cs.du.edu!nyx!mporter From: mporter@nyx.cs.du.edu (Mitchell Porter) Subject: Re: Info Needed Message-ID: <1992Nov16.103209.17824@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> Sender: usenet@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu (netnews admin account) Organization: University of Denver, Dept. of Math & Comp. Sci. References: Date: Mon, 16 Nov 92 10:32:09 GMT Lines: 56 skar@warp6.cs.misu.NoDak.edu (Keith M. Skar) writes: >A friend of mine would like to find out all he can about >Area 51....Is there a FAQ or a ftp site for this newsgroup. >Or can anybody send me some Info... >Thanks Well, good luck to your friend... The bastards at Area 51 have taken themselves off the net: From nobody@Pa.dec.com Mon Nov 16 03:28:25 1992 Return-Path: Received: from uucp-gw-2.pa.dec.com by nyx.cs.du.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA18666; Mon, 16 Nov 92 03:28:22 MST X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University of Denver. The University has neither control over nor responsibility for the opinions or correct identity of users. Received: by uucp-gw-2.pa.dec.com; id AA13057; Mon, 16 Nov 92 02:26:50 -0800 Date: Mon, 16 Nov 92 02:26:50 -0800 Message-Id: <9211161026.AA13057@uucp-gw-2.pa.dec.com> From: ftpmail service on uucp-gw-2.pa.dec.com To: mporter@nyx.cs.du.edu Subject: your ftpmail request has been received X-Complaints-To: ftpmail-admin@uucp-gw-2.pa.dec.com X-Service-Address: ftpmail@uucp-gw-2.pa.dec.com Precedence: bulk Status: R We processed the following input from your mail message: connect ftp.area51.mil chdir /pub dir quit Your ftpmail request could not be accepted due to the error shown below: -- Ftpmail Submission Transcript -- <<< connect ftp.area51.mil >>> Connect to ftp.area51.mil as anonymous with ftpmail/mporter@nyx.cs.du.edu <<< chdir /pub >>> Will chdir to before I do anything else <<< dir >>> list directory <<< quit >>> Done - rest of message will be ignored >>> checking security of host `ftp.area51.mil' >>> HOST IS NOT REGISTERED WITH THE DOMAIN NAME SERVICE -- End Of Ftpmail Transcript -- Seriously, there is a FAQ (and a very good one) for the group, and it lists several ftp sites, and other archival sources of information. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!spool.mu.edu!agate!doc.ic.ac.uk!uknet!str-ccsun!dct.ac.uk!ccdarg From: ccdarg@dct.ac.uk (Alan Greig) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. Message-ID: <1992Nov16.110326.1385@dct.ac.uk> Date: 16 Nov 92 11:03:26 GMT References: <92320.155010SWK105@psuvm.psu.edu> Organization: Dundee Institute of Technology Lines: 13 In article <92320.155010SWK105@psuvm.psu.edu>, SWK105@psuvm.psu.edu (Stephen Kuhn) writes: > From: Rob Farquhar, temp. using this account. >[Lots of geological terms terms slightly altered] 1/10 Try harder. -- Alan Greig Janet: Alan@UK.AC.DUNDEE-TECH Dundee Institute of Technology Internet: Alan@DCT.AC.UK Tel: (0382) 308810 Xref: icaen soc.culture.new-zealand:4675 alt.alien.visitors:11083 Newsgroups: soc.culture.new-zealand,alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!news.cso.uiuc.edu!uxa.cso.uiuc.edu!mcwg9235 From: mcwg9235@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Marsha Woodbury ) Subject: Re: NZ UFO reports in mainstream press, 1989? References: <1992Nov16.022727.11619@nwnexus.WA.COM> Message-ID: Sender: usenet@news.cso.uiuc.edu (Net Noise owner) Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 11:43:41 GMT Lines: 21 markmc@halcyon.com (Mark McWiggins) writes: >An acquaintance mentioned something about a bizarre series of UFO >reports coming out of New Zealand in 1989, allegedly including guys It may not be widely known outside of New Zealand, but certainly within....There are many, many instances of UFO sightings in New Zealand, and a high percentage of them are around Blenheim. The Marlborough Express files are replete with the stories of possible sightings. Not only that, Blenheim is on "the grid" in a book (I don't remember the title)--the book says the high proportion of UFO sightings are due to where blenheim is (I always wondered why God put it there!)--I guess ET, etc. will make contact with humnakind in Blenheim, so get ready DownUnder!! ..... -- Marsha Woodbury marsha-w@uiuc.edu A simile is like a metaphor. University of Illinois, Middle of Nowhere Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!pipex!warwick!coventry!esi102 From: esi102@cck.coventry.ac.uk (The Magician) Subject: Re: Monsters and Etc. Message-ID: Sender: news@cck.coventry.ac.uk (news user) Nntp-Posting-Host: cc_sysk Organization: Coventry University References: <69443@cup.portal.com> <69514@cup.portal.com> <69560@cup.portal.com> Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 13:50:36 GMT Lines: 23 In article <69560@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >Subject: Flying Whatsit. > What has a 40 foot windspan, flys and screams like everything? I don't >know either but they are seeing them down in Peru. Hmmm............... This stikes me as the kind of story you would see in the Sport (an english news/toilet-paper and or comic according to which industry you want to insult. Where exactly did this story come from ? > This is me (John Winston) speaking now. Did you ever hear of such a thing in >your life? The next thing they will be saying is that these things are being >seen a little ways from Malibu, Calif. Well I never---. >John Winston. Thats what i thought.. next thing we know they'll be selling free range Tranasourus Rex eggs (sp?). Tim. esi102@uk.ac.cov.cck Dreams fade, but nightmares last forever. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12726 alt.alien.visitors:11085 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: UFOs and Newage Message-ID: <69606@cup.portal.com> Date: Mon, 16 Nov 92 06:46:03 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) Distribution: world References: <64264@cup.portal.com> <69579@cup.portal.com> Lines: 3 Dear Pyramid Workers: It seems that my computer has the dribbles again. Please disregard any information that comes through after my name. John Winston. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12727 alt.alien.visitors:11086 sci.skeptic:34197 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!news.centerline.com!noc.near.net!news.Brown.EDU!qt.cs.utexas.edu!cs.utexas.edu!csc.ti.com!tilde.csc.ti.com!m2.dseg.ti.com!mmeyer From: mmeyer@m2.dseg.ti.com (Mark Meyer) Subject: Re: Space Craft From Other Plants Organization: TI DSEG, Spring Creek, Plano, Tx. In-Reply-To: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com's message of Thu, 12 Nov 92 21:43:56 PST References: <1992Nov11.151619.21039@engage.pko.dec.com> <69419@cup.portal.com> Message-ID: Lines: 7 Sender: mmeyer@m2.dseg.ti.com (Mark Meyer) Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 15:56:31 GMT In article <69419@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: > Kelvin Rowe says his space friends don't refer to planets by names > but by their orbit. Gee, that must get awfully confusing, umpteen thousand planets in the galaxy, all called "Elliptical". -- Mark Meyer | mmeyer@dseg.ti.com | Texas Instruments, Inc. +--------------------+ Every day, Jerry Junkins is grateful that I don't speak for TI. "They say history repeats itself. But then again, they've said that before." Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Alien Races? Message-ID: <69608@cup.portal.com> Date: Mon, 16 Nov 92 07:21:09 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Oct14.095653.20532@reed.edu> <1992Oct15.200618.12196@risky.ecs.umass.edu> <82578@ut-emx.uucp> Lines: 15 Dear Just Wondering: Already this sounds like an Ann Landers article out of the paper. Your question is a very difficult one to answer. Once I was talking to the grand nephew of John Hopkins who had the name of John Hopkins also. He was a millionair and lived in Berkeley, Calif. in a mansion. He used his home as a place to hold meetings for people who believed in UFOs. While I was talking to him he made the statement that Mr. Winston if you plan to understand the UFO phenomena you will have to learn that you have lived before and who you have been before. Since that time I believe I have learned who I have been before and I think I understand the UFO phenomena to some degree. The answer to your question is that we have been on other planets before. We volunteer to come here to develope ourselves. The people on other planets know that we lived before with them. They come here to watch our developement and sometime help out when it is needed. John Winston. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12728 alt.alien.visitors:11088 sci.skeptic:34198 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: <69607@cup.portal.com> Date: Mon, 16 Nov 92 07:01:00 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> Lines: 3 Dear People: Here it is Monday morning and it appears that I have a new set of flamers. Thank you for your support. It's very heart warming. John Winston. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12729 alt.alien.visitors:11089 sci.skeptic:34199 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Astral 1. Message-ID: <69613@cup.portal.com> Date: Mon, 16 Nov 92 08:49:23 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> Lines: 48 Subject: Astral Projection. I have had some requests to explain how astral projection is done so here goes; Well now that we've got this far you should be able to do, !. Send and receive thoughts. 2. Seal the aura (we haven't covered that one yet) and 3. Call a flying saucer. If you haven't accomplished these things yet it may take a while, say 10 or 20 years. Some people are born with these abilities and can do them without being taught, other people can do them with a little bit of instruction, others take quite a while to learn and the last type of people are for sure they'll never learn and they usually are right. Your usually accomplish what you put your mind to do. Lately there has been a lot of information about out of the body experiences. That is where you are being operated on and while under anesthesia, are able to leave their physical body and float up to the ceiling, looking back on your body while the operation is being done. After the anesthesia dies off then you return to your body. fter you return to your body and wake up in your physical body you are able to tell everybody what was going on during the operation even though you had your eyes closed. In other cases people lay down to sleep and just before going to sleep leave their physical body and float into the other room and see things, then return. Part of my training was to learn how to do astral projetion. To do this you relax in a chair, or bed or in the lotus posture, if your studying Yoga. Then let yourself go into sort of a trance. You let you astral or spiritual body (your mind)leave your body and go to anywhere you might want to go. Your astral body is connected to your physical body by what is called the silver cord. Its sort of a thin piece of nearly invisible material that stretches out between your physical body and your astral body. This all is just a way of explaining it and it can be seen by a person with clairvoyant vision. One of my teachers could go all the way to Venus by astral projection. Some people say that you should be careful that no one moves you while your on an astral journey because it will kill you if they break the silver cord but I've never been killed yet. I just wake up if someone shakes me. Some people say you should have a teacher or Guru to accompany you on your trips but I could never seem to get all that organized so I just went anyway. After you get so far in all this business you'll find that the only real Guru is your higher self and if you can understand that little statement your pretty far advanced anyway. When you first start all of this its nomal to have what is calld a snap back. That is when you just leave your body and are going pretty good, then realize what your doing, get afraid and you mind will snap back into your body. Sometimes your astral body comes back into you physical body and doesn't get aligned just right and you won't feel exactly right (sort of a headache). All you have to do in a case like that is to go back into a regular sleep for at least 5 minutes and you'll be feeling OK. End Part 1. John Winston. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!van-bc!cs.ubc.ca!destroyer!gumby!yale!yale.edu!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!lobster!dutcher From: dutcher@lobster.micro.umn.edu (Dave Dutcher) Subject: Re: the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. Message-ID: <1992Nov16.170216.424@news2.cis.umn.edu> Sender: news@news2.cis.umn.edu (Usenet News Administration) Nntp-Posting-Host: lobster.micro.umn.edu Organization: University of Minnesota, Minneapolis: Under Grad Workstation Lab. References: <92320.155010SWK105@psuvm.psu.edu> Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 17:02:16 GMT Lines: 13 In <92320.155010SWK105@psuvm.psu.edu> Stephen Kuhn writes: >From: Rob Farquhar, temp. using this account. >t cooperative and instructing (by the way, faster-than-light travel makes human >s nauseous). They informed me of the existence of the twelve starfaring race Hmm I'll have to remeber some dramamine next time I cross an interstellar void. What was it like traveleing faster then light? Must have been some funky time dialation going on. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12734 alt.alien.visitors:11091 sci.skeptic:34204 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!think.com!ames!saimiri.primate.wisc.edu!aplcen.apl.jhu.edu!uars_mag!roelle From: roelle@uars_mag.jhuapl.edu (Curtis Roelle) Subject: Re: Astral 1. Message-ID: Sender: news@aplcen.apl.jhu.edu (USENET News System) Organization: Johns Hopkins University References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <69613@cup.portal.com> Date: 16 Nov 92 18:36:52 GMT Lines: 20 John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >Subject: Astral Projection. > I have had some requests to explain how astral projection is done so here >goes; Well now that we've got this far you should be able to do, !. Send >and receive thoughts. 2. Seal the aura (we haven't covered that one yet) and >3. Call a flying saucer. If you haven't accomplished these things yet it **** * ****** ****** Call a flying saucer as in summons, or just for a chat? I for one want to here more about it. Hailing a saucer for the airport would certainly impress the boss more than just catching an ordinary old taxi cab. Sure, we could just skip the airplane thing, but I don't want to seem pretentious. Curt Roelle >End Part 1. >John Winston. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12735 alt.alien.visitors:11092 sci.skeptic:34206 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!pmafire!mica.inel.gov!ux1!news.byu.edu!gatech!darwin.sura.net!udel!pervert!louie!pecan.cns.udel.edu!mccoy From: mccoy@pecan.cns.udel.edu (Don McCoy) Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: <1992Nov16.171855.5005@udel.edu> Sender: usenet@udel.edu (USENET News Service) Nntp-Posting-Host: pecan.cns.udel.edu Organization: Applied Physics: University of Delaware, Newark Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 17:18:55 GMT Lines: 11 In article <69607@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >Dear People: Here it is Monday morning and it appears that I have a >new set of flamers. Thank you for your support. It's very heart warming. >John Winston. John, They'll come and they'll go, but they'll never keep up with *you*! :) Have a good week. ..don... Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12736 alt.alien.visitors:11093 sci.skeptic:34208 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!pmafire!mica.inel.gov!ux1!news.byu.edu!gatech!purdue!mentor.cc.purdue.edu!noose.ecn.purdue.edu!samsung!balrog!ctron.com From: smith@ctron.com (Lawrence C Smith) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Space Craft Without Pants Message-ID: <5936@balrog.ctron.com> Date: 16 Nov 92 17:09:16 GMT References: <1992Nov11.151619.21039@engage.pko.dec.com> <69492@cup.portal.com> Sender: usenet@balrog.ctron.com Reply-To: smith@ctron.com Followup-To: talk.religion.newage Organization: Cabletron Systems, Inc. Lines: 10 Nntp-Posting-Host: glinda In article <69492@cup.portal.com>, John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >Dear Space People Watchers: [...] Adona Vasu Baragus. My, GOD, can't someone HELP this man? Don't we have chemicals for this sort of thing? Larry Smith (smith@ctron.com) No, I don't speak for Cabletron. Need you ask? - Liberty is not the freedom to do whatever we want, it is the freedom to do whatever we are able. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12737 alt.alien.visitors:11094 sci.skeptic:34209 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!lll-winken!snow.geology.wisc.edu!saimiri.primate.wisc.edu!caen!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!lynx!apsicc.aps.edu!jim From: jim@apsicc.aps.edu (frost...) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Space Craft Without Pants Message-ID: <16NOV199210204491@apsicc.aps.edu> Date: 16 Nov 92 17:20:00 GMT References: <1992Nov11.151619.21039@engage.pko.dec.com> <69492@cup.portal.com> Organization: Albuquerque Public Schools - Career Enrichment Center Lines: 21 News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41 In article <69492@cup.portal.com>, John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes... >Dear Space People Watchers: The people from other planets as far as >I have been told will give a sun a name (some of them call our >sun Shan) and we are considered to be the third orbit from our sun >unless you count Vulcan so we are the number three orbit planet of >the sun Shan, except they don't use the same words for your numbers. >John Winston. The people in our solar system use a inter planetary >language called Solar Max. It's sort of the same way we use Latin ^^^^^^^^^ We also thought this was a good name for a satelite. >as an international language. I will now close with solar language >and say goodbye and may God be with you. Adona Vasu Baragus. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ The rhythm of this sounds a lot like what Michael Renny had his earthly girlfriend say to Gort the 'Police Robot' to keep it from destroying the earth in, "THE DAY the EARTH STOOD STILL". Adona Vasu BOGUS ====================================================================== We are rapidly ascending through prosperity to poverty... Twain Internet: jim@apsicc.aps.edu Albuquerque Public Schools - Instructional System Manager ====================================================================== Xref: icaen soc.culture.new-zealand:4677 alt.alien.visitors:11095 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!comp.vuw.ac.nz!waikato.ac.nz!aukuni.ac.nz!status!jonc Newsgroups: soc.culture.new-zealand,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: NZ UFO reports in mainstream press, 1989? Message-ID: From: jonc@status.gen.nz (Jon Clarke) Date: Tue, 17 Nov 92 07:34:14 GMT References: Organization: The Z*NET Global News Gateway in Parnell New Zealand. Lines: 47 mcwg9235@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Marsha Woodbury ) writes: > Not only that, Blenheim is on "the grid" in a book (I don't > remember the title)--the book says the high proportion of > UFO sightings are due to where blenheim is (I always wondered > why God put it there!)--I guess ET, etc. will make contact > with humnakind in Blenheim, so get ready DownUnder!! Marsha, I have spent ten years of my life in Blenheim, or should I say I was sentenced to tens years in Marlborough (grin). I joined the RNZAF (Kiwi Airforce) straight from school and then spent my service career at Woodbourne just out of Blenheim. Apart from the Kiakoura sightings (some 2hours drive SOUTH of Blenheim) in the late 70's there has been no more sightings than those elsewhere worldwide. Blenheim and indeed the south island does have its form of "Wildfire" (sheet lightening on a clear night) and this has been confused with sightings for years. The Marlborough Excuse (Express) has made mention of this on many ocassions. The last major sighting was in 1983 when an object low on the horizon apeared to sit still and change colour. Many people in Marlborough and Wellington saw this sight, and it was even discussed on 2ZE the local radio station. The object was a star called (Sorry for the spelling) "Canopis" and it did look very nice, and very much like ET's craft (grin). I am still not convinced there is more UFO activity in Blenheim or Marlborough than elsewhere. The refernce to Cathey's book is a red herring IMHO. Now were you to talk about Longburn and the their experiments (in the 60's) I would agree with you as would many locals. Jon Clarke Z*NET Pacific ================================================================ Phone (+649) 358-5589 GEnie : J.CLARKE6 CI$ : 75300,1642 Fax (+649) 302-2672 Hexagon : HSBC NZ EBD IFNA: 3:772/105 ---------------------------------------------------------------- "The problem is between the chair and the Keyboard" JimT NCR'91 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Aliens.Part1 Message-ID: <69621@cup.portal.com> Date: Mon, 16 Nov 92 12:26:14 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) Distribution: alt References: Lines: 3 Dear Earth People: My comment on the information given is the same as Mr. Spok of Star Trek---very interesting. John Winston. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!comp.vuw.ac.nz!waikato.ac.nz!aukuni.ac.nz!kcbbs!kc Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: UniversalTranslator Inc Message-ID: <10292321.41375.10607@kcbbs.gen.nz> From: Robert_Sutton@kcbbs.gen.nz (Robert Sutton) Date: 17 Nov 92 11:29:35 GMT References: <2B0683A6.7DE2@tct.com> Organization: Kappa Crucis Unix BBS, Auckland, New Zealand Lines: 8 According to John_-_Winston@cup,portal.com >....and say goodbye and may God be with you.Adona Vasu Baragus chip@tct.com 15 Nov 92 17:06:46 GMT (Chip Salzenburg) responds- >>Klaatu Baruda Nicto! (c)? Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!charon.amdahl.com!pacbell.com!sgiblab!swrinde!emory!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!eff!news.byu.edu!news.mtholyoke.edu!news.unomaha.edu!cwis!stone From: stone@cwis.unomaha.edu (Travis Stone) Subject: Re: Monsters and Etc. Message-ID: Sender: news@news.unomaha.edu (UNO Network News Server) Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha References: <69357@cup.portal.com> <69443@cup.portal.com> <69514@cup.portal.com> Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 19:30:58 GMT Lines: 11 John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >Dear Big Foot Lovers: I have decided to change the subject we are >talking about to Monsters and Etc. This will be about unusal animals >and beings that are not normally talked about. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Unlike yourself, eh, Johnny?... T.R. Stone University of Nebraska-Omaha Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!think.com!spool.mu.edu!olivea!stratus!florida!lpb From: lpb@florida.swdc.stratus.com (Len Bucuvalas) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: *SUMMARY: Please help me! _What_ was that? PLEASE READ! Message-ID: <8547.23634@stratus.SWDC.Stratus.COM> Date: 16 Nov 92 20:54:50 GMT References: Sender: news@SWDC.Stratus.COM Lines: 135 In a field fraut with misinformation and less-than-legal govt. activities, I find this fraudulent post of yours reprehensible. You could either be telling the truth OR you ar a misinformation agent who is telling the truth or you are lying or an agent and lying. No matter....I will ... 1) Ignore all your postings whether information or request 2) I will place you in my kill file so I will never have to waste time with you again 3) I adjure all other readers to consider the above actions against your posting. This is a free country...yu have the right to BS...and I have the obligation to delete your material unread. Len In article ulrich@galki.toppoint.de (Ulrich Gall) writes: > > > > >Dear a.a.v readers, > > > > >first of all, I would like to apologize to everyone who read my original >posting about the Russian UFO. > >THE WHOLE STORY IS A LIE. I have never been in Russia in all my life. >------------------------- > >I posted this to find out how people react and whether people would believe >a story like this. I DID NOT DO THIS TO MAKE FUN OF ANYONE. I do believe >that it is very well possible that we have had contact with aliens. > >I realize that many of you are not really impressed to say the least. > >My main concern is that, after now reading that it was all fake, all those >people who offered to help me won't believe the next guy who posts a story >which is true. So please, KEEP ON BELIEVING THOSE PEOPLE SERIOUSLY POSTING >TO THIS GROUP. > >I was very impressed by the help so many people offered, and I really felt >bad about them offering their help to someone who lied to them. I thank >all of you who did answer to my posting. > >I got a total of 5 replies, the two follow-ups and a phone call from a guy >from Germany. > >Here is what they told me: >-------------------------- > >1) One guy guessed it was a Russian classified vertical takeoff aircraft. > >2) Two of them wanted to know more about the "sample", where it was now etc. > >> ... you might describe these more fully. What do they weigh? What >> size? What shape? Greyish, as in dark or light grey? Dull or >> bright? Weathered, machined? > >[I was actually describing a chunk of Silicon I took from an aluminum plant. >It is really strange stuff - very hard, but still metal-like. I was going to >give some more hints after reading some of the followups (like "it's got a >resistance of 500 Ohms from one end to the other"), but I didn't want to lie >to you any further. > >3) One concern also mentiuoned was about preserving what I found. This is of >course very important, and I would recommend everyone hiding A PART of >something alien they found right away and not even tell anyone about it until >the time has come. > >4) Two people mentioned that in Russia, UFOlogy has been taken much more >seriously than in the West. > >5) One advice I got that makes sense was TO TAKE SOME SOIL OF AN ENCOUNTER >SIGHT to check for radiation and bacteria. > >6) A Special thanks to Garrett for this offer (A follow-up, I hope you don't mind >me reposting your adress.): > >> Send a sample of that rock to me, and we will to some FTICR/MS, Xray >> fluoresence and other tests on it and see what it is made of: >> >> Dr. Garrett Van Cleef >> Laser Spectroscopy Facility >> Department of Chemistry >> Box 234 >> The Ohio State University >> Columbus, OH 43210 > >7) The guy who called me recommended a german book about all this and gave >me the adress of a german UFO organization. A special thanks to you. > >----- >Generally, I was surprised that everyone believed me. Please keep this up! I >am confident that anyone who experinced something like this can post and >people will help him. > > >Of course, almost everyone wanted more info. For your amusement, here is what >I was planning on telling them: > ____ ____ ____ >The clouds looked like this:-(____)-(____)-(____)-. The sound was 1-2Hz. >Of course this was supposed to match the "Pulser" aircraft mentioned in the >FAQ. >The sample was Silicon (see above). >The picture disappeared when I had them developed (MIBs?) >I picked Russia because it makes it harder to check if it really happened. > >Again, sorry about all of this, > hoping that some of what I found was interesting for you, > > Ulrich > > > >Ulrich B. Gall, Seebrooksberg 2, W-2300 Klausdorf, Germany >Tel.: +49-431-790292, EMail: ulrich@galki.toppoint.de -- *@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@* The accountability of government has gone to the point where the very use of the law is the instrument of illegality. -- Ralph Nader @ Harvard Law School, 1/15/92 Xref: icaen soc.culture.new-zealand:4682 alt.alien.visitors:11100 Newsgroups: soc.culture.new-zealand,alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!comp.vuw.ac.nz!ferrari.datamark.co.nz!david From: david@datamark.co.nz (David Rowland) Subject: Re: NZ UFO reports in mainstream press, 1989? Message-ID: <1992Nov16.220224.25002@datamark.co.nz> Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 22:02:24 GMT References: <1992Nov16.022727.11619@nwnexus.WA.COM> Organization: Datamark International Ltd. Lines: 23 In article <1992Nov16.022727.11619@nwnexus.WA.COM> markmc@halcyon.com (Mark McWiggins) writes: >An acquaintance mentioned something about a bizarre series of UFO >reports coming out of New Zealand in 1989, allegedly including guys >wearing "USAF" jumpsuits getting out of a crash-landed craft. > >Does this ring a bell for anyone? If so, could you post a summary and/or >pointers to the relevant press accounts? > >Thanks in advance. >-- >Mark McWiggins Hermes & Associates +1 206 632 1905 (voice) >markmc@halcyon.com Box 31356, Seattle WA 98103-1356 +1 206 632 1738 (fax) If this is what I think it is, there was some pictures filmed from an aircraft of undefined lights supposedly travelling huge distances at enormous speeds. This was latter discovered to be Venus. -- | David Rowland | The British are using New Zealanders. They must | | Datamark Intl Ltd | really mean business ! | | Wellington | - General Rommel During Northern African | | NEW ZEALAND | Campaign WWII. | Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12741 alt.alien.visitors:11101 sci.skeptic:34219 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!think.com!spool.mu.edu!olivea!stratus!florida!lpb From: lpb@florida.swdc.stratus.com (Len Bucuvalas) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: <8549.2385@stratus.SWDC.Stratus.COM> Date: 16 Nov 92 21:23:27 GMT References: <69354@cup.portal.com> Sender: news@SWDC.Stratus.COM Lines: 35 In article roelle@uars_mag.jhuapl.edu (Curtis Roelle) writes: >John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: > >>... Her name is Sharula and that is the same name as a star >>in the Scorpius (sometimes called Scorpio) constellation. > ^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >Scoropio is not a constellation; it is an astrological sign. We >realize you are unable to distinguish between astrology and astronomy >John, as well as your other problem with fantasy V. reality. NOT! All astrological signs were/are named after constellations....or is it the other way around? either way.....the astrological sign has a counter part in the sky as a constellation. Buy a Sky & Telescope smeday ...or go to a library..... Len BTW: This "Sharula" is indeed a real flesh and blood person who has adopted the name "Sharula". She claims to be a "walkin" alien from anotehr star system. But then agan since I have been in California....I have met hundreds of poeple who could fit this description......out here the adage is: If it moves at all...SELL IT!!!!!! ;^) Sorry John...couldn't help myself.....The woman self-named Sharula is a nice person and in no way must the above be construed as an insult to either Sharula OR John Winston. -- *@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@* The accountability of government has gone to the point where the very use of the law is the instrument of illegality. -- Ralph Nader @ Harvard Law School, 1/15/92 Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12742 alt.alien.visitors:11102 sci.skeptic:34220 alt.religion.kibology:4689 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!ogicse!emory!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!eff!world!kibo From: kibo@world.std.com (James "Kibo" Parry) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic,alt.religion.kibology Subject: Re: Greys, Good, Bad, or Kibozotic Message-ID: Date: 16 Nov 92 06:34:59 GMT Article-I.D.: world.BxsqAB.848 References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <69561@cup.portal.com> Organization: Two rooms filled with typography, in downtown Boston Lines: 6 In article <69561@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: > Please don't think that this is something that I alone know about. Oh, John, we'd never think YOU ALONE know about this stuff! -- K. Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:11103 alt.religion.kibology:4690 sci.skeptic:34221 alt.postmodern:4191 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!ogicse!emory!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!eff!world!kibo From: kibo@world.std.com (James "Kibo" Parry) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology,sci.skeptic,alt.postmodern Subject: Re: the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. in bed. Message-ID: Date: 16 Nov 92 06:40:32 GMT Article-I.D.: world.BxsqJK.8Ay References: <92320.155010SWK105@psuvm.psu.edu> Organization: Two rooms filled with typography, in downtown Boston Lines: 33 [alt.alien.visitors] In article <92320.155010SWK105@psuvm.psu.edu> Stephen Kuhn writes: >From: Rob Farquhar, temp. using this account. > It's amazing how little you people really know about what you're talking ab >out. this is not arrogance, but experience talking. I am a scientist/astronom >er as well as a contactee. ...and also a client! > The Darvosians, grey humanoids descended from (nobody knows) > The Kaheew, a catlike warrior race kind of like Niven's fictional KZIN > The N'gusat-ahh, bovine centaurlike creatures > The Farhipti, other grey beings descended from sharks > The Skark, bigfoot/wookie looking docile critters > The Cante'la, upright walking versions of trilobites > The Anarhooksat, telekinetic squidlike beasts that must carry water with them > in their ships > The Roorpa, pteranodon-like gliders > The Xrxquim, isolationist humanoids with greatly enlarged craniums > The Hurrparansilar, elaphantine creatures, and > The Banarflista, ten-legged mollusks with weapon legs, eating legs, and > walking legs The Pianoid Linguiniae, phallic-shaped aerosol beings that smell like rum The Floopies, the best creatiures in the Universe at their specialized task of shouting "Floop-floop-a-doop!" The Zzzzzz, the most boring creatures in our galaxy The Aaaaaaaa, who believe in being first in all things, and who often fool people into thinking someone's fallen out a window The Schwa, who shrug a lot The Fnord, which are completely generic, more so that humans Gee, I couldn't top the silly names. -- K. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12743 alt.alien.visitors:11104 sci.skeptic:34222 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Astral 2 Message-ID: <69635@cup.portal.com> Date: Mon, 16 Nov 92 15:57:18 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> Lines: 37 Subject: Astral Projection. Part 2. It's always best to figure out where you want to go on your journey, when you want to come back and asked that the spiritual intelligencies that are assigned to watch over you (your guardian angel) to keep a watch and protect your physical body while your gone. You'll go where you've decided to go and come back when you've decided to come back. When I was first learnibng how to do this I started using some telpathic stones, would go to a certain place and then come back. The next day some of my friends would call me up and ask me what I was doing at say 915 PM last night. I would then tell them I was doing some experiments with some telepathic stones. They would then tell me that they had felt my intelligence or presence appear in the room where they were and before they could make contact with me, I was gone. On another ocassion one of my friends was standing on a street corner sending his wife a mental message to come pick him up in the car and suddenly my astral intelligence came in contact with him and just as suddnely I was gone. This was also during the time I was using the stones. After finally getting astral projection down pretty good I asked Merelle (my teacher and Guru) if he would see if it was OK if I went up to Mt. Shasta to visit Sister Thedra (the lady that received telepathic messages from the men inside Mount Shasta and sent them out to the world). I had been studing the teachings and wanted to meet her personally. Merelle asked her by letter to see if it was OK and she said that I should study for a couple of years to get some background because they were very busy sending out the teachings and didn't have much time to teach people the fundamentals. This reply didn't satisfy me so I used everything I had been taught before and used telepathy, ESP astral projection and everything else I knew to contact the people that were sending her the messages (such as Sananda, and others). I made contact and within 3 or 4 days Merelle got another letter saying it would be OK if I come on up. I made the trip and it was reallly great. From time to time I used to phone into a radio telephone talk show. In doing this a person listens to the station, phones into the radio station, talks to the announcer and the conversation is transmitted over the radio so everybody listening to the radio can hear it. I usually talked about UFOs or anything connected with ESP. End Part 2. John Winston. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12744 alt.alien.visitors:11105 sci.skeptic:34225 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!charon.amdahl.com!pacbell.com!ames!agate!spool.mu.edu!caen!nic.umass.edu!news.mtholyoke.edu!news.unomaha.edu!cwis!stone From: stone@cwis.unomaha.edu (Travis Stone) Subject: Re: Greys, Good or Bad Message-ID: Sender: news@news.unomaha.edu (UNO Network News Server) Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <69561@cup.portal.com> Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 19:56:13 GMT Lines: 7 It's high tribute to human intestinal fortitude that everyone in A.A.V. puts up with your apparently endless stream of tepid tabloid drivel, Johnny... T.R.Stone Xref: icaen soc.culture.new-zealand:4684 alt.alien.visitors:11106 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!comp.vuw.ac.nz!waikato.ac.nz!aukuni.ac.nz!kcbbs!nezsdc!derek Newsgroups: soc.culture.new-zealand,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: NZ UFO reports in mainstream press, 1989? Message-ID: <1992Nov16.191705.4015@nezsdc.icl.co.nz> From: derek@nezsdc.icl.co.nz (Derek Tearne) Date: Mon, 16 Nov 92 19:17:05 GMT References: <1992Nov16.022727.11619@nwnexus.WA.COM> Organization: Fujitsu New Zealand Lines: 22 In article <1992Nov16.022727.11619@nwnexus.WA.COM> markmc@halcyon.com (Mark McWiggins) writes: >An acquaintance mentioned something about a bizarre series of UFO >reports coming out of New Zealand in 1989, allegedly including guys >wearing "USAF" jumpsuits getting out of a crash-landed craft. > >Does this ring a bell for anyone? If so, could you post a summary and/or >pointers to the relevant press accounts? The only ones I remember in 1989 were a couple of guys in Auckland with a rather large triangular kite! If they had USAF jumpsuits someone would have noticed and asked them if they were carrying muclear weapons before letting them land. If they had replied 'we will not confirm or deny...' or possibly 'fvarswiggle bloamsnigit waisnddneepoark vlapstreui' we would have sent them on their way. -- Derek Tearne. -- derek@nezsdc.icl.co.nz -- Fujitsu New Zealand -- Some of the more aware dinosaurs were worried about the environmental consequences of an accident with the new Iridium enriched fusion reactor. "If it goes off only the cockroaches and mammals will survive..." they said. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!charon.amdahl.com!pacbell.com!sgiblab!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!eff!news.byu.edu!news.mtholyoke.edu!news.unomaha.edu!cwis!stone From: stone@cwis.unomaha.edu (Travis Stone) Subject: Put a Saddle on The Stove, Kids... Message-ID: Keywords: Winston the Idiot Rides Again... Sender: news@news.unomaha.edu (UNO Network News Server) Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 19:46:47 GMT Lines: 18 Put a saddle on the stove, kids---Johnny Winston's gonna ride the Range tonight.... Hold onto your hats, pardners---that dreckslinger Kid Winston's a-comin' into town with his copy of the latest Weekly World News, ready to regale us with tabloid tales of Pterodactyls. God help us. Can't somebody make sure Johnny gets his medication on schedule? T.R. Stone University of Nebraska-Omaha Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!charon.amdahl.com!pacbell.com!sgiblab!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!menudo.uh.edu!menudo.uh.edu!usenet From: Kal Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: UFOs and Newage Date: 16 Nov 1992 19:43:34 GMT Organization: University of Houston Lines: 1 Message-ID: <1e8tl6INNosh@menudo.uh.edu> References: <64264@cup.portal.com> <69579@cup.portal.com> <69606@cup.portal.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: opsup2.admin.uh.edu Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12746 alt.alien.visitors:11109 sci.skeptic:34228 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!ogicse!uwm.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!convex!finn From: finn@convex.com (Tom Finn) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Space Craft Without Pants Message-ID: <1992Nov16.221041.25296@convex.com> Date: 16 Nov 92 22:10:41 GMT Article-I.D.: convex.1992Nov16.221041.25296 References: <1992Nov11.151619.21039@engage.pko.dec.com> <69492@cup.portal.com> <16NOV199210204491@apsicc.aps.edu> Sender: usenet@convex.com (news access account) Organization: CONVEX Computer Corporation, Richardson, Tx., USA Lines: 15 Nntp-Posting-Host: eugene.convex.com X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and not necessarily those of CONVEX. In article <16NOV199210204491@apsicc.aps.edu> jim@apsicc.aps.edu (frost...) writes: >In article <69492@cup.portal.com>, John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes... >>as an international language. I will now close with solar language >>and say goodbye and may God be with you. Adona Vasu Baragus. > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > The rhythm of this sounds a lot like what Michael Renny had his earthly > girlfriend say to Gort the 'Police Robot' to keep it from destroying the > earth in, "THE DAY the EARTH STOOD STILL". > Adona Vasu BOGUS Reminded me of televangelist Robert Tilton, speaking in tongues. Hey- you don't think he's an *alien*, do you? tom Xref: icaen sci.skeptic:34231 alt.paranormal:6008 alt.alien.visitors:11110 Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!wupost!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!sctc.com!beede From: beede@sctc.com (Mike Beede) Subject: Re: Jeane Dixon Predicts Bush Victory Message-ID: <1992Nov16.235342.16062@sctc.com> Organization: SCTC References: <1992Nov12.183139.29533@gagme.chi.il.us> Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 23:53:42 GMT Lines: 14 >>the sex of unborn children: You send me 50 dollars and some pertinent >>information about the time of conception, etc. and I will tell you the sex >>of the child. If I am wrong you get your money back. >If they offer double your money back, go for it. PV That's just an even-money bet. They'd have to offer triple your money back to make it profitable for the customers. Mike -- Mike Beede Secure Computing beede@sctc.com 1210 W. County Rd E, Suite 100 ------------------ Arden Hills, MN 55112 (612) 482-7420 Xref: icaen soc.culture.new-zealand:4692 alt.alien.visitors:11111 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!comp.vuw.ac.nz!waikato.ac.nz!aukuni.ac.nz!kiwi!murrayb Newsgroups: soc.culture.new-zealand,alt.alien.visitors Subject: NZ UFO Reports in Mainstream Press 1989 Message-ID: <19866.32192493@kiwi.gen.nz> From: murrayb@kiwi.gen.nz (Murray Bott) Date: 17 Nov 92 05:31:06 GMT Reply-To: murrayb@kiwi.gen.nz (Murray Bott) Distribution: alt Organization: Household UNIX, Auckland, New Zealand Lines: 51 (Mark McWiggin) writes >An aquaintance mentioned something about a bizzare series of UFO reports >coming out of New Zealand in 1989,allegedly including guys wearing >"USAF" jumpsuits getting out of a crash-landed UFO There have not been any reports resembling the descrition you mention, or at least not to the best of my Knowledge. If such an incident did take place it would have made major headlines within New Zealand as well as much discusion among us in the UFO research community However there was one report in the weekly Tabloid newspaper "Sunday News" for the 14th May 1989 with the bold headlines "ALIENS SIGHTED". The report went on to mention taht golfers at the Wairakei International Golf Course had seen Three Green Monkey-like Animals strolling out of the mist/ My attempts to track down the witnesses through the reporter was fruitless. A phone call to the manager of the golf course (spoke to his wife who also worked there) was equqally fruitless as they had not been told anything either, by any of the golfers on the course. The first they heard of this claim was the newspaper report and they had also nesver heard of the principal person making this report Another colleage attempting to track down this story phoned all the people in the district with the same name as the principal person making this report (to the newspaper) was also unsuccesfull as all of those he contacted denied being resposisible for it. (Marsha Woosbury) writes >it may not be widely known outside of New Zealand but certainly within >....there are many insatances of UFO Sightings in New Zealand and a high >percentage around Blenheim. The Marlborough Express are replete with the >sories of possible sightings. Again those of us among the UFO research community are aware that over the last 40 years ther have been a large number of "Reported UFO Sightings" around New Zealand. However for there to be an unusually high number of such reorts to come from one area in particular (a possible Flap !!) area such as Blenheim is most unusual and not known . I would ceratinly ask both Mark and Marsha to check out their sources of information and keep me informed on more specific and accurate information. I would also like to hear of any other additional Reported sightings from around New Zealand should anyone care to keep me posted I am New Zealand Representative for the Texas (USA) based Mutual UFO Network Inc (MUFON). I also hold a reasonable Archive of UFO Material going back to 1952 when the first UFO group was started here in New Zealand. -- Domain : murrayb@kiwi.gen.nz Voice : 64-9-6315825 Snail : PO Box 27117, Mt Roskill, Auckland 1030, New Zealand Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12751 alt.alien.visitors:11112 sci.skeptic:34239 alt.religion.kibology:4693 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!ogicse!network.ucsd.edu!sdcc12!sdcc13!pashley From: pashley@sdcc13.ucsd.edu (Montykins) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic,alt.religion.kibology Subject: Re: Greys, Good, Bad, or Kibozotic Message-ID: <41115@sdcc12.ucsd.edu> Date: 17 Nov 92 09:30:21 GMT Article-I.D.: sdcc12.41115 References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <69561@cup.portal.com> Sender: news@sdcc12.ucsd.edu Followup-To: talk.religion.newage Organization: University of California, San Diego Lines: 27 Nntp-Posting-Host: sdcc13.ucsd.edu In article , kibo@world.std.com (James "Kibo" Parry) writes: >In article <69561@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >> Please don't think that this is something that I alone know about. > >Oh, John, we'd never think YOU ALONE know about this stuff! > You know what intrigues me about John-O? It's not the subject matter. It's not the phantomf lettersf in the Subjectf linef. It's not even the fact that one of his posts was directed to ME PERSONALLY! (It said, in its entirety, "Dear Person, maybe you are right. Maybe my floppy disks are getting a little floopy" in response to some nitpicky comment I made about a typo) It's his login name. John_-_Winston. As far as I can tell, he told the computer his full, legal name was "John-Winston", and it dutifully separated the punctuation out with underlines. Isn't it cute? Doesn't it make you want to rush out and buy your John_-_Winston Signature Baseball and Pen Set today? -Paul "Monty" Ashley (Warning Sign #1: If you think John-Winston is talking directly to you, GET HELP!) -- All just the opinions of pashley@sdcc13.ucsd.edu. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12752 alt.alien.visitors:11113 sci.skeptic:34243 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: <69681@cup.portal.com> Date: Tue, 17 Nov 92 06:25:15 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> Lines: 7 All Creatures Great and Small: Here it is tuesday and it's time to announce the destination of the OOBE train for this week. I figure we should keep it simple this week and just all meet aboard an alien space ship and let them give us the Cook's Tour of whatever they want to show us. Nothing special maybe something from the Good guys (the Good Guys, Asthtar Command and if they can swing it Celestial class) John Winston. Thanks to Don, Len, Tom, Curt, T.R. and B. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12753 alt.alien.visitors:11114 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: UFOs and Newage Message-ID: <69682@cup.portal.com> Date: Tue, 17 Nov 92 06:29:11 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) Distribution: world References: <64264@cup.portal.com> <69579@cup.portal.com> Lines: 2 Dear People: I hope all of you are well. I must go to work now. John Winston Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Monsters and Etc. Message-ID: <69683@cup.portal.com> Date: Tue, 17 Nov 92 06:33:53 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) Distribution: world References: <69357@cup.portal.com> <69443@cup.portal.com> <69514@cup.portal.com> <69560@cup.portal.com> Lines: 3 Dear Monster Watchers: I'll try to answer the questions later. I must go to work now. John Winston. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12757 alt.alien.visitors:11116 sci.skeptic:34247 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!pmafire!mica.inel.gov!ux1!news.byu.edu!hamblin.math.byu.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!usc!cs.utexas.edu!csc.ti.com!tilde.csc.ti.com!m2.dseg.ti.com!mmeyer From: mmeyer@m2.dseg.ti.com (Mark Meyer) Subject: Re: Greys, Good or Bad Organization: TI DSEG, Spring Creek, Plano, Tx. In-Reply-To: stone@cwis.unomaha.edu's message of Mon, 16 Nov 1992 19:56:13 GMT References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <69561@cup.portal.com> Message-ID: Lines: 7 Sender: mmeyer@m2.dseg.ti.com (Mark Meyer) Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 15:38:35 GMT In article stone@cwis.unomaha.edu (Travis Stone) writes: > It's high tribute to human intestinal fortitude that everyone > in A.A.V. puts up with your apparently endless stream of tepid > tabloid drivel, Johnny... Alt.alien.visitors, hell! What about sci.skeptic?!!! -- Mark Meyer | mmeyer@dseg.ti.com | Texas Instruments, Inc. +--------------------+ Every day, Jerry Junkins is grateful that I don't speak for TI. HI! I'm a mutating signature virus. You can resist helping me spread! Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!tamsun.tamu.edu!cjr6495 From: cjr6495@tamsun.tamu.edu (Opera_Ghost) Subject: Re: Wake up to reality Message-ID: <1992Nov17.164138.23670@tamsun.tamu.edu> Organization: Texas A&M University, College Station References: <1553.479.uupcb@homebase.com> Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 16:41:38 GMT Lines: 14 In article <1553.479.uupcb@homebase.com> joseph.daniels@homebase.com (Joseph Daniels) writes: >To: stancad@woods.ulowell.edu >From: hombas!Joseph.daniels@uunet.ca > >ST|Wake up everybody! This is the real world...there are no UFOs... > `---------------------------------------------------------------- Really? Prove it. CJR Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!sdd.hp.com!spool.mu.edu!olivea!sgigate!odin!slugo.corp.sgi.com!rodb From: rodb@slugo.corp.sgi.com (Rod Beckwith) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Re^2: alien info.wanted Message-ID: <1992Nov17.172734.11918@odin.corp.sgi.com> Date: 17 Nov 92 17:27:34 GMT References: <1992Nov14.163829.25081@odin.corp.sgi.com> <1992Nov17.001607.11085@megatek.com> Sender: news@odin.corp.sgi.com (Net News) Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc. Lines: 24 Nntp-Posting-Host: slugo.corp.sgi.com Max Elliot[writes] > I'm not trying to say that I should expect hostility and profanity, > but I should expect at least *some* ridicule. Anyway, flame the hell out > of him! (via E-mail, please). > Cheers! >-Max Public ridicule in itself asks for public rebuttle. Rod -- Rod Beckwith |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Datacom I/S |"The great obstacle of progress is not ignorance, rodb@corp.sgi.com|but the illusion of knowledge." |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12759 alt.alien.visitors:11119 sci.skeptic:34259 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!sun-barr!ames!pacbell.com!att-out!walter!phelix!mdl From: mdl@phelixsalt (Michael Lynch) Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: <1992Nov17.184455.15283@walter.bellcore.com> Sender: news@walter.bellcore.com Nntp-Posting-Host: phelix.bellcore.com Reply-To: mdl@phelixsalt (Michael Lynch) Organization: Bellcore References: <69354@cup.portal.com> <1992Nov14.030624.23977@netcom.com> <1992Nov16.192115.21473@digi.lonestar.org> Date: Tue, 17 Nov 92 18:44:55 GMT Lines: 54 In article <1992Nov16.192115.21473@digi.lonestar.org>, gpalo@digi.lonestar.org (Gerry Palo) writes: |> |> Actually, there is a constellation called scorpio, and it is |> part of the sidereal zodiac. The constellations of the sidereal |> zodiac vary in size, measured approximately by the extent of the |> stars that make them up. This zodiac constitutes the fixed stars, |> whereas the astrological signs are made up of an imaginary structure |> that you construct by extending the line between the sun and the earth |> at the vernal equinox. That yields "out there" the sign of Ares. |> Then divide the circle into twelve equal parts and assign the con- |> stellation names in order. This is the zodiac (basically an earth-sun zodiac) |> that most astrologers use. |> |> The sidereal zodiac is not based on the sun at all but on the earth and |> the stars only. The sun is just another planet that moves through it. |> There is a smaller number of investigators who also study the sidereal |> zodiac as well as the traditional solar zodiac. The question arises, |> if there is really a relationship between the movements of the planets |> through this zodiac and what goes on on the earth, is it of a different |> nature than that of the planets' movements through the solar zodiac |> (if indeed those movements have an influence)? The answer is that there |> is a difference. |> |> Much misunderstanding could be eliminated if the distinctions were kept |> clearer, including the scoffing argument raised by scientists that the |> precession of the equinoxes has shifted all the signs so they no longer |> line up to the stars, thereby "proving" that astrology is intrinsically |> nonsense. The fact is that the earth-sun zodiac does not precess, while |> the sidereal one does. About 2,000 years ago they were approximately |> lined up (except for the varying sizes of the sidereal zodiac). Today they |> are about one sign apart (the Platonic year being about 2160 years). |> |> Scientific skepticism about astrology has never been based on solid |> scientific investigation. It only is based on a revulsion against the |> essentially non-scientific methodology of astrology and the often crude |> application of it in a superstitious way. The result is that most scientists |> never get beyond the position that there is absolutely no reason to investigate |> this "nonsense" anyway, so a few pot shots aimed at the astrology of |> the National Enquirer variety are deemed to be enough. Then they say, |> show me some evidence according to my standards of evidence. Astrologers |> are not forthcoming with this, so there it stands. No truly scientific |> investigation is ever made. For one thing that requires an objective scientist |> who also has some faith that his investigations may yield concrete results, |> not one who is determined to find the first piece of evidence that disproves |> the hypothesis. If the stars have meaning, then that meaning is as vast and |> complex as life itself, and not the crude thing that most people make it out |> to be. Interesting article (meaning I learned something today), and well stated. Mike Lynch mdl@oscar.bellcore.com Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!wupost!darwin.sura.net!ukma!cs.widener.edu!dsinc!netnews.upenn.edu!uofs!triangle.cs.uofs.edu!bill From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Bill Clinton and UFOs? Message-ID: <11263@platypus.uofs.uofs.edu> Date: 17 Nov 92 19:08:36 GMT References: <1992Nov10.135248.27454@netcom.com> Sender: news@uofs.uofs.edu Organization: Department of Computing Sciences Lines: 19 Nntp-Posting-Host: triangle.cs.uofs.edu In article <1992Nov10.135248.27454@netcom.com>, rkrouse@netcom.com (Robert K. Rouse) writes: |> |> |> What is Bill Clinton position on the UFO activities and the |> government of the USA? Has anybody ever put the question to him? I thought this was obvious!!! Didn't you see him on the front page of the newspaper with the grey?? It was in all the supermarkets, right up there next to the check-out. Boy, how could you have missed it?? bill -- Bill Gunshannon | If this statement wasn't here, bill@cs.uofs.edu | This space would be left intentionally blank | #include Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!cis.ohio-state.edu!rutgers!noao!amethyst!organpipe.uug.arizona.edu!helium!corleyj From: corleyj@helium.gas.uug.arizona.edu (Jason D Corley ) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Monuments of Mars Message-ID: <1992Nov17.181120.8910@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu> Date: 17 Nov 92 18:11:20 GMT References: <1992Nov15.221812.1@woods.ulowell.edu> <1e798sINNqvh@gap.caltech.edu> <1992Nov17.044222.12323@odin.corp.sgi.com> Sender: news@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu Organization: University of Arizona, Tucson, AZ Lines: 17 In article <1992Nov17.044222.12323@odin.corp.sgi.com> rodb@slugo.corp.sgi.com (Rod Beckwith) writes: > > >> |> I've got a hunch there is more than one face and that the Mars > > >What about the Nazca(sp?) Lines in South America? They have to be viewed >from very high above the ground as well. BTW what do our own pyramids look >like from orbit? Any gifs that anyone knows about? > Nope. Can't see 'em. Can't see ANYTHING man-made from Earth orbit and yes that includes the Great Wall of China. (I'm speaking of course of naked-eye viewing. I doubt that the US gov't would take kindly to us approaching them for .gifs of their spy satellite photos, even if they are only of the pyramids ;-) Jason Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors From: lwalton@zombie.demon.co.uk (Lee Walton) Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!doc.ic.ac.uk!mrccrc!warwick!pipex!demon!zombie.demon.co.uk!lwalton Subject: Bill Clinton and UFOs? Distribution: world References: Organization: L & W Computer Services Ltd Lines: 22 Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 18:46:04 +0000 Message-ID: <722032358snx@zombie.demon.co.uk> Sender: usenet@gate.demon.co.uk In article coakley@cch.coventry.ac.uk writes: >I'm only a humble English guy, Interested in U.F.O's, but i would be >interested in having a go at your new President. If you want to read >a good book on U.F.O's, then try "ABOVE TOP SECRET" and "ALIEN LIASON" >which are both by Timothy Good. I was a skeptic until i read them, and >then met Mr.Good at a signing. They are well worth a look in. I'm reading 'Above Top Secret' at the moment.... it is argued in such an objective fashion that it makes it very difficult not to believe that SOMETHING is going on. I didn't realise Timothy Good had written another book. Garrett, what's 'Alien Liason' like in comparison to 'Above Top Secret'? Lee -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Lee Walton ------ lwalton@zombie.demon.co.uk ----- ----- L & W Computer Services Ltd ------ lwally@cix.compulink.co.uk ----- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12761 alt.alien.visitors:11123 sci.skeptic:34266 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!swrinde!gatech!destroyer!gumby!yale!yale.edu!ira.uka.de!rz.uni-karlsruhe.de!stepsun.uni-kl.de!sun.rhrk.uni-kl.de!efes.physik.uni-kl.de!kring From: kring@efes.physik.uni-kl.de (Thomas Kettenring) Subject: Back to the subject: Skepticism (was: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day) Message-ID: <1992Nov17.201515.1489@rhrk.uni-kl.de> Followup-To: sci.skeptic Sender: news@rhrk.uni-kl.de Organization: FB Physik, Universitaet Kaiserslautern, Germany References: <69354@cup.portal.com> <1992Nov14.030624.23977@netcom.com> <1992Nov16.192115.21473@digi.lonestar.org> Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 20:15:15 GMT Lines: 74 I just realized (after finishing the response below) that the "Newsgroups:" line is larger than I thought, so I set ***Followup-To: sci.skeptic*** to keep the crossposting to a minimum. If you t.r.n readers are still offended by people who don't share your opinions, sorry. Hit 'n' now. In article <1992Nov16.192115.21473@digi.lonestar.org>, gpalo@digi.lonestar.org (Gerry Palo) writes: [explanation re: constellations and zodiacal signs deleted, as well as the Scorpius/Scorpio/Scoropio/Ares discussion] >Much misunderstanding could be eliminated if the distinctions were kept >clearer, including the scoffing argument raised by scientists that the >precession of the equinoxes has shifted all the signs so they no longer >line up to the stars, thereby "proving" that astrology is intrinsically >nonsense. The fact is that the earth-sun zodiac does not precess, while >the sidereal one does. About 2,000 years ago they were approximately >lined up (except for the varying sizes of the sidereal zodiac). [..] That's a matter of definition, not a fact. One precesses with respect to the other, and you can choose arbitrarily which is the precessing one. To sum up: Those "scientists" that "raised" the "scoffing argument" missed the point, and you missed again when you tried to refute them. >Scientific skepticism about astrology has never been based on solid >scientific investigation. It only is based on a revulsion against the >essentially non-scientific methodology of astrology and the often crude >application of it in a superstitious way. Why should skeptics use a cannon to shoot a sparrow? It seems that the only halfway solid scientific investigation *astrology is based on* is one of the Gauquelins' statistics, and that is currently discussed. (Please correct me if I'm wrong about scientific evidence. But don't tell me about the metal-planet correspondence work; here is an interesting sentence by Kollerstrom: "My interest in the experiments had somewhat waned after finding that they sometimes worked but sometimes did not.") Please don't misunderstand me: I don't want to say that skeptics should not investigate astrology, but you can't reproach them with not doing it (which possibly you didn't want to do anyway). >The result is that most scientists >never get beyond the position that there is absolutely no reason to investigate >this "nonsense" anyway, so a few pot shots aimed at the astrology of >the National Enquirer variety are deemed to be enough. Then they say, >show me some evidence according to my standards of evidence. Astrologers >are not forthcoming with this, so there it stands. No truly scientific >investigation is ever made. Fine, so you have an excuse for not having scientific evidence. It's the same excuse that nearly everybody without scientific evidence has. You are not alone: the "stones are living and moving" school shares your fate. >For one thing that requires an objective scientist >who also has some faith that his investigations may yield concrete results, Doesn't that mean that the "objective scientist" has to believe that there is an effect? You seem to use a new definition of "objective". >not one who is determined to find the first piece of evidence that disproves >the hypothesis. [..] Assistent: "Hey, look here. There is the first piece of evidence that disproves the hypothesis!" Objective Scientist: "Just ignore it, that's not what we're searching for!" What's wrong with being determined to find whatever it is you mean by "evidence that disproves the hypothesis"? -- thomas kettenring, 3 dan, kaiserslautern, germany ...and then the dragon ate the princess and the knight, and he lived happily ever after. -- Grandma Addams telling Wednesday a story (paraphrased) Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12762 alt.alien.visitors:11124 sci.skeptic:34268 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!caen!destroyer!gumby!yale!yale.edu!jvnc.net!princeton!phoenix.Princeton.EDU!rdnelson From: rdnelson@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Roger D. Nelson) Subject: Re: Astral 2 Message-ID: <1992Nov17.191059.18349@Princeton.EDU> Originator: news@nimaster Sender: news@Princeton.EDU (USENET News System) Nntp-Posting-Host: phoenix.princeton.edu Organization: Princeton University References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <69635@cup.portal.com> Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 19:10:59 GMT Lines: 23 In article <69635@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: On the order of 40 lines, twice as much as usual, of the standard "halb-starke" flummery he apparently composes for some talk.xxx newsgroup. Since this is my day to complain about things that strike me as inappropriate, I'm going to lengthen his thread against my SOP. This, despite that most responses to Winston nowadays seem to be jovial and short comments that indicate some of us are entertained or at least have _nothing_ better to do than read John Winston, improbable as that sounds. Now to the point: sci.skeptic is not intended as an entertainment, and mere entertainment is not welcome, especially and importantly because it devalues the newsgroup, and deters serious and interesting participants. All of us welcome a sense of humor, or an entertaining anecdote to leaven and enliven the group, but repetitive, adolescent stories don't make it. John, Please consider taking sci.skeptic out of your header. Roger Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!news!wrs.com!davidj From: davidj@wrs.com (David Jones) Subject: The Phobos II Incident Message-ID: Summary: Hostile Aliens Based on Mars Keywords: Phobos II Sender: news@wrs.com (News Manager) Nntp-Posting-Host: erra Organization: Wind River Systems, Inc. Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 23:22:53 GMT Lines: 46 joseph.daniels%hombas@homebase.com (Joseph Daniels) and usenet@news.cso.uiuc.edu (Net Noise owner) write: >> The Phobos II Incident >> Hostile Aliens Based on Mars >Phobos II had no way of telling which direction this object was moving >(assuming it really existed) unless it took multiple photos of said >object. Where are these? I have yet to see any reason to believe that >this object (again stipulating that it existed) attacked Phobos II. Why >do people come to this conclusion? According to Dr. Marina Popovich, Soviet trained astronaut, who first presented the photo to the American press, this conclusion was guessed at since immediately after taking the photo(s) (ther may be more than one), Pho- bos lost contact with planet Earth. >>But the next day a top official of the Soviet Space Agency >>(Glavkosmos) said: "Phobos II is 99% lost for good." It is >>important to note that he stated the entire satellite was gone >>and not just contact with it. >>It has long been rumored that Mars and it's moon Phobos are alien >>colonies. The surface of Mars is covered with strange >>shapes/buildings that do not appear to be natural such as the >>pyramids, square buildings, runways, etc. etc. One structure >>shows the face of a man with a helmet looking into space. >You have a very impressive imagination if you can see all this in Viking >pictures. There is no reason to think that anything on the surface of Mars >is artificial except for Vikings 1 and 2 and the remains of early Soviet >landers. Bzzzt! Wrong. There seems to be ample information to conclude that, indeed, not only are there ancient ET cities on Mars, but underground cities as well and, according to a U.S Army General (retired), that I was with, he said that there is clear evidence of mechanical devices on the surface of Mars, and that they are moving. Tell me, how many pictures did Viking take? How many have been released to the the public (we paid for them didn't we?). Again, the real issue is a government that lies to it's people. If they would only tell the Truth... ------------------- David W. Jones davidj@wrs.com ------------------- Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12765 alt.alien.visitors:11126 sci.skeptic:34276 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!batcomputer!munnari.oz.au!bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au!cheops!pclink From: pclink@cheops.qld.tne.oz.au (Rick) Subject: Re: Astral 1. Message-ID: <1992Nov18.001641.12491@cheops.qld.tne.oz.au> Organization: Telecom Australia, TNE Computer Support Services References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <69613@cup.portal.com> Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 00:16:41 GMT Lines: 10 John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >Subject: Astral Projection. >vision. One of my teachers could go all the way to Venus by astral >projection. Why are we spending megabucks launching probes when these guys can do it in their living room? Perhaps NASA should be looking at alternatives? Rick. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12767 alt.alien.visitors:11127 sci.skeptic:34288 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Dolphin-Aliens? Message-ID: <69712@cup.portal.com> Date: Tue, 17 Nov 92 18:21:36 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> Lines: 44 Subject: Dolphins. There is a name that strikes hatred in some of the people who read this Net and hear a certain person's name. They really fly apart and raved for a long time. Thit name is Uri Geller. The only thing that will calm them down is to tell about some of the exploits of The Amazing Randy. Now at the cost of maybe starting a rior, I'm going to mention a few things that Uri Geller has to say about Dolphins, so here goes; Uri claims Flipper is really an alien from outer space and is here to share the secrets of his own highly advanced extraterrestrial civilization with humanity (Well I don't know about that. I've never seen a Dolphin driving a flying saucer, have you?) Uri claims he once worked with the U.S. Navy in a hush-hush experiment to turn dolphins into living torpedoes. Their brains are much bigger than the human brain, and they can communicate with each other even when they're thousands of miles apart . They can smile and make facial expression to each other. It is well-known that dolphins want to communicate with man-experiments have already proved that. Once they learn to share their secrets with humanity, we'll understand the miracles Geller says they can perform. Even now, friendly dolphins are being used to help heal mentally handicapped children. I have found these less fortunate kids relate more to the friendly dolphins than humans. Dolphins, swim with mentally handicapped youngsters in pools under the supervision of doctors. Amazingly, after each session, the kids show marked improvement-and researchers are convinced the children are being healed by sound waves transmitted by the gentle, caring mammals. Their highly developed sensors can instantly detect even the most minor physical disorder. When a dolphin looks at a person underwater, it automatically gives him a complete scan-better than a hospital ultra-scan examination, believe me. It's like an X-ray with souund waves, Instead of trying to unlock the incredible scientific and medical knowledge stored in dolphins' brains, scientists are spending more time training them to kill than they are doing research into how dolphins can be used to help mankind. I once went to a secret training institute where dolphins were being geared to carry deadly weapons. Scientists there even nicknamed them Kamikaze Dolphins because of their ability to aim themselves at ships, then there would be no trace of them after the explosion. The gentle creatures are being used as aquatic midwives to swim with mothers during childbirth and help relax them. This is me (John Winston) talking now. That would be all well and good but some people wouldn't believe anything Uri Geller says. John Winston. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!eff!news.byu.edu!news.mtholyoke.edu!news.unomaha.edu!cwis.unomaha.edu!jcitro3 From: jcitro3@cwis.unomaha.edu (Joe Citro III) Subject: Re: Flying object sighting(s) from Las Vegas (?) Message-ID: <1992Nov18.033642.20847@news.unomaha.edu> Sender: news@news.unomaha.edu (UNO Network News Server) Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha References: <1992Nov17.051840.15222@cbnewse.cb.att.com> Distribution: na Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 03:36:42 GMT Lines: 57 harryo@cbnewse.cb.att.com writes: > Having recently taken my first-ever trip to Las Vegas, I've > been thinking lately about a television show I saw within the > last year (can't remember which one, exactly, but it was along > the lines of HardCopy, Inside Edition, or Sightings), on which > was shown some videotape of what appeared to be aerial objects > maneuvering about very quickly in all sorts of quirky manners. > It seems to me that this footage may have been taken from the > Las Vegas area, as I do recall seeing some sort of city skyline > and mountains in the distance. Does anyone recall seeing this > broadcast videotape also? Was it taken from Las Vegas? If so, > when was this footage shot, and toward which direction from the > city? Yes, I remember the show. It was a Sightings show from last year. The show was an hour long and was about UFO's, alien contact, mutilations, and etc. The clip you are referring to was shot in L.V. in early 1991 and showed 3 objects making high speed diving and ascending maneuvers in front of some mountains. The time was about 6:22 in the evening. I do not know for sure in which direction the footage was shot, but I believe since it was around sunset and the sun seemed to be to the rear of the camera, it must have been to the east. Any idea of just how often "weird things" are seen/heard in > the skies near the Las Vegas area, given its location in relation > to the reputedly infamous Area 51? Wasn't there also some local > TV reporter there who was doing some digging around about UFOs in > the past couple years? Yes. His name is George Knapp with KLAS-TV. Which I believe is out of L.V. Is he the one who shot the video? > I don't think so, It seemed as though it were done by an amature... > I might mention also that the driver of the Hoover Dam tour bus > I was on was fully aware of the Area 51 "legend", and made brief > mention of it on the tour. Being a 30-year resident of the area, > he's been up toward that way a number of times. He didn't mention > whether he'd ever encountered anything unusual, however. (But then, > I really didn't press the matter. Yet when I first mentioned about > people seeing weird things in the skies up toward that way, he > immediately brought up Area 51 *by name*, even though I hadn't. > So I don't think the subject is anything new to LV denizens.....) > As in the words of Col. Klink "Very interesting.... " ;) > > H.R. Holm > *comment my own, standard disclaimers; > pls post replies to the newsgroup only* Joseph A. Citro III Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rphroy!caen!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!hamblin.math.byu.edu!news.byu.edu!news.mtholyoke.edu!news.unomaha.edu!cwis.unomaha.edu!jcitro3 From: jcitro3@cwis.unomaha.edu (Joe Citro III) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Flying object sighting(s) from Las Vegas (?) Message-ID: <1992Nov18.034517.21007@news.unomaha.edu> Date: 18 Nov 92 03:45:17 GMT References: <1992Nov17.051840.15222@cbnewse.cb.att.com> Sender: news@news.unomaha.edu (UNO Network News Server) Distribution: na Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha Lines: 13 As a side note to my previous post about last years Sighting show... They also mentioned that Jimmy Carter, Barry Goldwater, and Gerald Ford all tried (supposedly) to release information on UFO's. THEY were all denied. I know there was a previous post about everyone on a.a.v. getting together to send a letter to President elect Clinton to see if he can release all info on the matter. Perhaps, with Ford and Carter's support (Bipartisan!) this may be possible. We should all (Skeptics, debunkers, and the rest...) get together through a.a.v. to see what we can do.... Whatcha Think?? Joseph A. Citro III Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!swrinde!sdd.hp.com!news.cs.indiana.edu!bsu-cs!bsu-ucs.uucp!yang.earlham.edu!aarons From: aarons@yang.earlham.edu Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Viewing Great Wall From Space [was Re: Monuments of Mars] Message-ID: <1992Nov17.184218.20539@yang.earlham.edu> Date: 17 Nov 92 23:42:18 GMT References: <1992Nov15.221812.1@woods.ulowell.edu> <1e798sINNqvh@gap.caltech.edu> <1992Nov17.044222.12323@odin.corp.sgi.com> <1992Nov17.181120.8910@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu> Organization: Earlham College, Richmond, Indiana Lines: 37 In article <1992Nov17.181120.8910@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu>, corleyj@helium.gas.uug.arizona.edu (Jason D Corley ) writes: > In article <1992Nov17.044222.12323@odin.corp.sgi.com> rodb@slugo.corp.sgi.com (Rod Beckwith) writes: >> >> >> |> I've got a hunch there is more than one face and that the Mars >> >> >>What about the Nazca(sp?) Lines in South America? They have to be viewed >>from very high above the ground as well. BTW what do our own pyramids look >>like from orbit? Any gifs that anyone knows about? >> > > Nope. Can't see 'em. Can't see ANYTHING man-made from Earth orbit > and yes that includes the Great Wall of China. (I'm speaking of > course of naked-eye viewing. I doubt that the US gov't would take > kindly to us approaching them for .gifs of their spy satellite > photos, even if they are only of the pyramids ;-) > > Jason Actually, the Great Wall of China *can* be seen with the naked eye. I have seen a normal (i.e. no magnification, flash (just kidding on the last one!)) photograph of Earth from space, and it did show the Great Wall, although it was quite dim. Of course, we all know that it wasn't built with space people in mind.....(unless there's something I don't know about) I am also guessing that you meant things that aren't illuminated, like cities, 'cos they can be seen at night. Have fun, Aaron G. Stock -- Aaron G. Stock | Ace Pumpkin aarons@yang.earlham.edu | Peter Gabriel Fan and Abalone Player ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Drawer 1735 |"And in this moment, I need to be needed Earlham College | When my self-esteem is sinking, I like to be liked Richmond, Indiana| In this emptiness and fear, I want to be wanted 47374 | 'Cos I love to be loved, I love to be loved" -Peter Gabriel Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!csus.edu!netcom.com!jeffp From: jeffp@netcom.com (Jeff) Subject: A letter to Clinton/Gore Message-ID: <1992Nov18.074528.14279@netcom.com> Organization: BeHereNow Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 07:45:28 GMT Lines: 73 Below is a letter I have written to President elect, and Vice President Clinton/Gore regarding UFO secrecy. I would appreciate any constructive comments... Anybody figure out how to reach H. Winkler yet? Jeff- Clinton Gore Transition Team 75300.3115@compuserve.com Jeffrey M. Papineau jeffp@netcom.com Nov. 16, 1992 Dear Mr. Clinton and Mr. Gore, This is not a letter of congratulations on your win of the presidency, but I do congratulate you, and wish you great success in the years to come. The reason I am writing to you is to inform you that as a regular member of UFO discussion groups on USENET and other electronic media, there is growing awareness that the US government has systematically hidden the truth of regular UFO radar sightings at military installations, UFO crashes and recoveries, and possibly even extraterrestrial (ET) visitation, communication, and agreements made with races from beyond our planet. I will not define or argue these charges, since they are well documented in books such as Timothy Good's "Above Top Secret", Michael Lindemann's "UFO's; Six Viewpoints" and William Hamilton's "Cosmic Top Secret" as well as dozens of other literary works of a similar nature. What I do call for you to do during your administration is wipe clean the veil of UFO secrecy that has existed in this country since 1945, and declassify all information relating to UFO sightings, ET visitation and contact, and any communication or agreements made with such beings. The American people have a right to know the truth regarding their place in the galaxy; and the government, being "of, for, and by the people" has an obligation to US citizens to make the truth known, and stop hiding it behind the false curtain called "National Security". If you truly believe that the American people deserve an honest government, then the "Secret Government", the lie that UFO's do not exist, the truth about US government involvement in drug dealing, money laundering, black projects intended for defense against alien races or space/world domination; all must be brought out into the open and laid bare before the people, so that we can take our country back from the CIA, the NSA, and the other agencies that would usurp our constitutional rights. I was very glad to hear of your recent meetings with Mr. Bill Moyers, and I do believe this is a great statement on your part that you intend to help the american people and create and honest government. I call upon you to rid us of the Secret Government, to tear-down the wall of deciet that has separated the people from the truth for so many decades, and make the US a truly democratic society, and the world, a better place to live. We will be watching, waiting, and hoping, that you will live up to the greatness that is within you, and protect liberty and happiness for us all. Jeffrey M. Papineau Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12768 alt.alien.visitors:11132 sci.skeptic:34315 alt.religion.kibology:4710 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic,alt.religion.kibology Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!caen!spool.mu.edu!darwin.sura.net!haven.umd.edu!decuac!pa.dec.com!nntpd2.cxo.dec.com!acetek.enet.dec.com!timpson From: timpson@acetek.enet.dec.com () Subject: Re: Greys, Good, Bad, or Kibozotic Message-ID: <1992Nov17.140212.22701@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com> Lines: 26 Sender: usenet@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com (USENET News System) Reply-To: timpson@acetek.enet.dec.com () Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <69561@cup.portal.com> Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 14:02:12 GMT |> |>In article <69561@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: |>> Please don't think that this is something that I alone know about. |> |>Oh, John, we'd never think YOU ALONE know about this stuff! Yah! there has to be at least half a dozen personalities in your head that know what you know John. Steve Food_for_the_Greys/Reptoids -- ----------------------------------------------------------------- | | | My atheism, like that of Spinoza, is true piety towards the | | universe and denies only gods fashioned by men in their own | | image to be servants of their human interests. | | | | -- George Santayana | | | ----------------------------------------------------------------- Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12769 alt.alien.visitors:11133 sci.skeptic:34319 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!csn!scicom!wats From: wats@scicom.AlphaCDC.COM (Bruce Watson) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Space Craft Without Pants Message-ID: <30855@scicom.AlphaCDC.COM> Date: 17 Nov 92 18:22:01 GMT References: <2B0683A6.7DE2@tct.com> Followup-To: talk.religion.newage Organization: Alpha Science Computer Network, Denver, Co. Lines: 11 In article <2B0683A6.7DE2@tct.com| chip@tct.com (Chip Salzenberg) writes: |According to John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com: |>...and say goodbye and may God be with you. Adona Vasu Baragus. | |Klaatu Barada Nicto! Gort! Klaatu Barada Nictu. -- Bruce Watson (wats@scicom) Tumbra, Zorkovick; Sparkula zoom krackadomando. ....alien language from an SF short story on a 78-RPM record I had as a kid. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!csn!scicom!paranet!p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Michael.Corbin From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Nz Ufo Reports In Mainstream Press, 1989? Message-ID: <141077.2B09EEDB@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Date: 18 Nov 92 05:50:01 GMT Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26) Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/428.0 - From: jonc@status.gen.nz (Jon Clarke) > Date: 17 Nov 92 07:34:14 GMT > Organization: The Z*NET Global News Gateway in Parnell New Zealand. > Message-ID: > Newsgroups: soc.culture.new-zealand,alt.alien.visitors > I am still not convinced there is more UFO activity in Blenheim > or Marlborough than elsewhere. The refernce to Cathey's book is > a red herring IMHO. > Now were you to talk about Longburn and the their experiments > (in the 60's) I would agree with you as would many locals. Can you give me some specifics on Cathey? Also, what are you referring to in your last paragraph? Thanks, Mike -- Michael Corbin - via ParaNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!dtix!darwin.sura.net!spool.mu.edu!agate!doc.ic.ac.uk!syma!serget From: serget@syma.sussex.ac.uk (Haunting Ghost, Mc Donald Lineage) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: the truth etc etc... Message-ID: <1992Nov18.000615.4146@syma.sussex.ac.uk> Date: 18 Nov 92 00:06:15 GMT References: Sender: news@syma.sussex.ac.uk Organization: My Castle in the Air Lines: 27 X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4 kibo@world.std.com (James Kibo Parry) writes: : The Pianoid Linguiniae, phallic-shaped aerosol beings that smell like rum : The Floopies, the best creatiures in the Universe at their specialized : task of shouting "Floop-floop-a-doop!" : The Zzzzzz, the most boring creatures in our galaxy : The Aaaaaaaa, who believe in being first in all things, and who often : fool people into thinking someone's fallen out a window : The Schwa, who shrug a lot : The Fnord, which are completely generic, more so that humans Cold Coffee. : Gee, I couldn't top the silly names. : -- K. Ps. :-) -- ...regardait avec plaisir la jolie main qui, comme un petit felin souple, jouait et sautillait sur le rebord de la fenetre, qui se ramassait comme sur un bond, se tournait et retournait, faisait le gros dos, prenait son elan vers le couteau a decouper, dont elle s'amusait a faire rouler le manche, reculait pour s'etaler a plat, saisissait ensuite le couteau, s'en emparait d'un mouvement agile, le soulevait pour faire briller au soleil la lame... JJ Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!dtix!darwin.sura.net!spool.mu.edu!agate!doc.ic.ac.uk!syma!serget From: serget@syma.sussex.ac.uk (O Velejador) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Astral 1 Message-ID: <1992Nov18.005913.5780@syma.sussex.ac.uk> Date: 18 Nov 92 00:59:13 GMT References: <69613@cup.portal.com> <69607@cup.portal.com> <1992Nov15.033926.25794@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> Sender: news@syma.sussex.ac.uk Organization: My Castle in the Air Lines: 20 X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4 John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: : Some people are born with these abilities and can do them without being : taught, other people can do them with a little bit of instruction, others : take quite a while to learn and the last type of people are for sure : they'll never learn and they usually are right. That's better. : Here it is Monday morning and it appears that I have a new set of flamers. : Thank you for your support. It's very heart warming. Cheerio. -- Si l'ame est assez forte pour edifier, au coeur du bagne, une morale qui ne soit pas celle de la soumission, il s'agira, la plupart du temps, d'une morale de domination. AC Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!pipex!warwick!str-ccsun!dct.ac.uk!ccdarg From: ccdarg@dct.ac.uk (Alan Greig) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Monuments of Mars Message-ID: <1992Nov18.125755.1488@dct.ac.uk> Date: 18 Nov 92 12:57:55 GMT References: <1992Nov15.221812.1@woods.ulowell.edu> <1e798sINNqvh@gap.caltech.edu> <1992Nov17.044222.12323@odin.corp.sgi.com> <1992Nov17.181120.8910@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu> Organization: Dundee Institute of Technology Lines: 16 In article <1992Nov17.181120.8910@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu>, corleyj@helium.gas.uug.arizona.edu (Jason D Corley ) writes: > > Nope. Can't see 'em. Can't see ANYTHING man-made from Earth orbit > and yes that includes the Great Wall of China. (I'm speaking of > course of naked-eye viewing. I doubt that the US gov't would take > kindly to us approaching them for .gifs of their spy satellite > photos, even if they are only of the pyramids ;-) I don't believe this. Leaving the great wall aside for a moment, what about some of the larger man made lakes? And by 'earth orbit' just how high? -- Alan Greig Janet: Alan@UK.AC.DUNDEE-TECH Dundee Institute of Technology Internet: Alan@DCT.AC.UK Tel: (0382) 308810 Int: +44 382 308810 -- There is only one true conspiracy -- Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!pipex!warwick!coventry!coakley From: coakley@cch.coventry.ac.uk (Cpl.Flash ) Subject: Moon sightings Message-ID: Sender: news@cck.coventry.ac.uk (news user) Nntp-Posting-Host: cc_sysh Organization: Coventry University, England Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 11:32:14 GMT Lines: 12 I'm not to sure of this as i dont have the book to hand (Above Top Secret), but wasn't there a report that the crew of the eagle (Armstrong et al), when they left the module, turned round and found themselves looking at alien craft at the top of a crater? I think armstrong said something like "..my god there's hundreds of them". I'm not to sure because as i say i don't have the book with me,could anyone send me the full report (transcript if possible). Thanks Garrett Coakley Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!csus.edu!netcom.com!rkrouse From: rkrouse@netcom.com (Robert K. Rouse) Subject: Re: A letter to Clinton/Gore Message-ID: <1992Nov18.140508.1450@netcom.com> Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) References: <1992Nov18.074528.14279@netcom.com> Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 14:05:08 GMT Lines: 21 I really like your letter to Clinton/Gore. My only concern is about the timing. Should you send it now or wait until our new President has tackled some of the more important issues. I think you should wait a little while because at the moment he has bigger fish to fry. However, I think it would be ok to send it to Al Gore. The message it self would be an example of the kind of interaction with the public his "Digital Highway" will bring about. -- Robert K. Rouse rkrouse@netcom.com "No creature with the right values is an alien to me." John Salter Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12770 alt.alien.visitors:11140 sci.skeptic:34324 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Tea. Message-ID: <69757@cup.portal.com> Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 06:33:32 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> Lines: 4 Dear Deep Thinkers: How about all of you people coming over to my house 100,000 years from now. We'll laugh about all of this and drink some bubble up and eat some rainbow stew? John Winston. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12771 alt.alien.visitors:11141 alt.religion.kibology:4713 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology Subject: Re: Bigfootf spaceman? Message-ID: <69758@cup.portal.com> Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 06:38:23 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) Distribution: world References: <67397@cup.portal.com> Lines: 2 Dear People: Thank you for your patience one and all. John Winston Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!uknet!educ-isis!teexijd From: teexijd@ioe.ac.uk (IAN DAVENPORT) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: The Phobos II Incident Keywords: Phobos II Message-ID: <1992Nov18.143921.19479@ioe.ac.uk> Date: 18 Nov 92 14:39:21 GMT References: Organization: Institute of Education, University of London Lines: 9 Flame me if I'm wrong here, but wasn't the problem with Phobos II that the control center accidentally sent the craft a "switch off antenna" signal, realising then that the craft could not receive any "switch on antenna" signals they might send. I understand that the West is imposing quite strict double-checking procedures on the Russian end of Mars 94 now. Ian J Davenport MULLARD SPACE SCIENCE LABORATORY ijd@uk.ac.ucl.mssl Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12772 alt.alien.visitors:11143 sci.skeptic:34344 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!aplcen.apl.jhu.edu!uars_mag!roelle From: roelle@uars_mag.jhuapl.edu (Curtis Roelle) Subject: Re: Dolphin-Aliens? Message-ID: Sender: news@aplcen.apl.jhu.edu (USENET News System) Organization: Johns Hopkins University References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <69712@cup.portal.com> Date: 18 Nov 92 18:53:21 GMT Lines: 16 John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >Subject: Dolphins. >Flipper >is really an alien from outer space and is here to share the secrets of his >own highly advanced extraterrestrial civilization with humanity Yet another of John's postings plagiarising popular science fiction genre. The fiction about dolphins (and white lab mice) who came from outer space to work among humans is from _The Hitchiker's Guide to the Galaxy_. Curt Roelle "Goodbye...And thanks for all the fish!" -- Dolphins in Hitchhiker's Guide Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12773 alt.alien.visitors:11144 sci.skeptic:34345 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!destroyer!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.unomaha.edu!cwis!stone From: stone@cwis.unomaha.edu (Travis Stone) Subject: Re: Dolphin-Aliens? Message-ID: Sender: news@news.unomaha.edu (UNO Network News Server) Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <69712@cup.portal.com> Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 18:14:28 GMT Lines: 64 John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >Subject: Dolphins. > There is a name that strikes hatred in some of the people who read this Net >and hear a certain person's name. They really fly apart and raved for a long >time. Thit name is Uri Geller. No. Thit name is "John Winston". > Blah-blah-blah [Ditfrimmy Deleted] >Even now, friendly dolphins are being >used to help heal mentally handicapped children. I have found these less >fortunate kids relate more to the friendly dolphins than humans. Really? Interesting. When did he do this research? Where? Whom did he do it with? Where did he publish his findings? > Their highly developed sensors can instantly detect even the most minor >physical disorder. When a dolphin looks at a person underwater, it >automatically gives him a complete scan-better than a hospital ultra-scan >examination, believe me. Why, how could Uri even THINK that we'd ever doubt HIS word, right, Johnny? > It's like an X-ray with souund waves, > Instead of trying to unlock the incredible scientific and medical knowledge >stored in dolphins' brains, scientists are spending more time training them >to kill than they are doing research into how dolphins can be used to help >mankind. I don't suppose the dolphins make house calls to the homes of mentally unbalanced loons who post tabloid crapola to A.A.V., do they, Johnny? (Hint-hint-hint....) > I once went to a secret training institute where dolphins were being geared >to carry deadly weapons. How does Geller manage to wrangle invitations to soirees like these, Johnny? He and 007 must have alot of names in common in their Christmas lists. > Scientists there even nicknamed them Kamikaze Dolphins because of their >ability to aim themselves at ships, then there would be no trace of them >after the explosion. What a surprise. Gasp. > This is me (John Winston) talking now. Oh boy. Let the good times roll.... > That would be all well and good but >some people wouldn't believe anything Uri Geller says. >John Winston. You'd best get on the stick yourself and see iff'n those dolphins make house calls, Johnny. The medication is CLEARLY not working for you.... T.R. Stone University of Nebraska-Omaha Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!sgiblab!sgigate!olivea!charnel!stefanis From: stefanis@ecst.csuchico.edu (Lab Boy) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Out Planet Message-ID: <1ee6aiINN9is@charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu> Date: 18 Nov 92 19:42:10 GMT References: <1591.479.uupcb@homebase.com> Organization: California State University, Chico Lines: 21 NNTP-Posting-Host: guzzler.ecst.csuchico.edu >To: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com > >JO|Dear Space People Watchers: The people from other planets as far as > |I have been told will give a sun a name (some of them call our > |sun Shan) and we are considered to be the third orbit from our sun > |unless you count Vulcan so we are the number three orbit planet of > `------------------------------------------------------------------- Actually there is no, and never was any, planet Vulcan. The space around the Sun is warped way out of shape by gravity. The strange motion of Murcery that caused people the think that there was a planet there was dispelled by Einstein 30+ years ago with the release of General Reletivity. For more information on gravatic phenominon see Einstein's Circle or Einstein's Cross in any good Scientific encyclopedia. There are lots of strange things that can happen when you travel at even .5c in normal space. Time moves a bit faster on Mars than it does here on Earth. ______ |\ |\ Nick Stefanisko (stefanis@cscihp.ecst.csuchico.edu) | |--+-| |-+---\| "Oodal-lada oodal-lada" \|____| --Thomas Dolby Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12775 alt.alien.visitors:11146 sci.skeptic:34348 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!uwm.edu!caen!hellgate.utah.edu!lanl!cochiti.lanl.gov!jlg From: jlg@cochiti.lanl.gov (J. Giles) Subject: Re: Tea. Message-ID: <1992Nov18.192043.24157@newshost.lanl.gov> Sender: news@newshost.lanl.gov Organization: Los Alamos National Laboratory References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <69757@cup.portal.com> Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 19:20:43 GMT Lines: 11 In article <69757@cup.portal.com>, John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: |> Dear Deep Thinkers: How about all of you people coming over to my |> house 100,000 years from now. We'll laugh about all of this and |> drink some bubble up and eat some rainbow stew? |> John Winston. Oh, gee... I wish you'd posted this before. I just made other arrangements for that year. -- J. Giles Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!batcomputer!munnari.oz.au!bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au!uqcspe!cs.uq.oz.au!rhys From: rhys@cs.uq.oz.au (Rhys Weatherley) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: A letter to Clinton/Gore Message-ID: <11102@uqcspe.cs.uq.oz.au> Date: 18 Nov 92 22:14:43 GMT References: <1992Nov18.074528.14279@netcom.com> Sender: news@cs.uq.oz.au Reply-To: rhys@cs.uq.oz.au Lines: 125 In <1992Nov18.074528.14279@netcom.com> jeffp@netcom.com (Jeff) writes: >Below is a letter I have written to President elect, and Vice President >Clinton/Gore regarding UFO secrecy. I would appreciate any constructive >comments... In outline, not bad, but it is still a little too "lunatic sounding". If I was Clinton/Gore's secretary sorting through the morning mail, I'd put this one into the "Mad Conspiracy Theorist" bin. This bin probably gets lots of mail, so you want to make yours different from the others so that it will be given a second look. This is no reflection on you Jeff - it just needs to be made more professional and less fringe-element sounding. >Anybody figure out how to reach H. Winkler yet? No idea. >Dear Mr. Clinton and Mr. Gore, >This is not a letter of congratulations on your win of the Bad start. Congratulate them and then say something like "I wish to take up another matter ..." You want to avoid negatives wherever possible. You're dealing with people in suits here - people who don't like to see negatives, especially when you are flattering them. :) Even if you didn't vote for them, still congratulate them. >The reason I am writing to you is to inform you that as a regular >member of UFO discussion groups on USENET and other electronic >media, there is growing awareness that the US government has >systematically hidden the truth of regular UFO radar sightings at >military installations, UFO crashes and recoveries, and possibly >even extraterrestrial (ET) visitation, communication, and >agreements made with races from beyond our planet. OK. >I will not define or argue these charges, since they are well >documented in books such as Timothy Good's "Above Top Secret", >Michael Lindemann's "UFO's; Six Viewpoints" and William Hamilton's >"Cosmic Top Secret" as well as dozens of other literary works of a >similar nature. "Of a similar nature". Not my first choice of a phrase. Some people would consider all lunatics to be "of a similar nature", and hence, Good et al, as well. But pointing him to published books is good. Replace "of a similar nature" with "in the field", or something similar. >What I do call for you to do during your administration is wipe >clean the veil of UFO secrecy that has existed in this country >since 1945, and declassify all information relating to UFO >sightings, ET visitation and contact, and any communication or >agreements made with such beings. OK. >The American people have a right to know the truth regarding their >place in the galaxy; and the government, being "of, for, and by the >people" has an obligation to US citizens to make the truth known, >and stop hiding it behind the false curtain called "National >Security". Good. >If you truly believe that the American people deserve an honest >government, then the "Secret Government", the lie that UFO's do not >exist, the truth about US government involvement in drug dealing, >money laundering, black projects intended for defense against alien >races or space/world domination; all must be brought out into the >open and laid bare before the people, so that we can take our >country back from the CIA, the NSA, and the other agencies that >would usurp our constitutional rights. I think this paragraph is a big mistake. It may be true, but going for the throat in an initial letter to the President is a bit premature I feel. Always remember that you have to get through layers of suits before anyone even remotely in a position to chew the President's ear will see it. Going on about the "Secret Government" will send the wrong signals IMHO. Get him interested and doing something about it and then throw the rest in his face. By all means put books on your book list that talk about this aspect. Books (by well-respected UFO researchers) help your case - unsupported claims do not. Once the Congressional enquiries, or whatever, start, they'll be hard to stop, and the various three-letter agencies will be running scared (hopefully), but you don't want to kill your chances of getting the equiries started. >I was very glad to hear of your recent meetings with Mr. Bill >Moyers, and I do believe this is a great statement on your part >that you intend to help the american people and create and honest >government. I call upon you to rid us of the Secret Government, to >tear-down the wall of deciet that has separated the people from the >truth for so many decades, and make the US a truly >democratic society, and the world, a better place to live. Not "rid us of the Secret Government", but "rid us of the secrecy". Same thing, but likely to get through more "lunatic filters". :) >We will be watching, waiting, and hoping, that you will live up to >the greatness that is within you, and protect liberty and >happiness for us all. "Greatness that is within you". Hmmm ... flattering him with newage stuff. Not exactly my choice either. Then again, I'm not an American, so I don't know what the latest in pandering to the overblown American ego is. :) This is all IMHO of course. I'm glad to see that someone is taking the initiative on USENET, but I don't want us to get shot down by an initial letter, and then be ignored forever after that. Initial impressions are always important, especially when dealing with people that can ignore you if you don't fit into one of their neat little boxes. One more thing: add your e-mail address and mention alt.alien.visitors. Maybe we'll get lucky and someone will be assigned to keep an eye on USENET and give us feedback on what the new adminstration is doing. They are already reportedly on the net. Now if only a.a.v didn't have such a fringe-element sounding name ... :-) Cheers, Rhys. -- Rhys Weatherley, University of Queensland, Australia. rhys@cs.uq.oz.au "I'm a FAQ nut - what's your problem?" Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12777 alt.alien.visitors:11148 sci.skeptic:34359 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!saimiri.primate.wisc.edu!caen!nic.umass.edu!umassd.edu!SMUCS1.UMASSD.EDU!SODONNELL From: sodonnell@UMASSD.EDU Subject: Re: Dolphin-Aliens? Message-ID: Sender: usenet@umassd.edu (USENET News System) Reply-To: sodonnell@UMASSD.EDU Organization: UMASS DARTMOUTH, NO. DARTMOUTH, MA. References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu>,<69712@cup.portal.com> Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 22:19:04 GMT Lines: 15 In article <69712@cup.portal.com>, John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >Subject: Dolphins. > There is a name that strikes hatred in some of the people who read this Net >and hear a certain person's name. They really fly apart and raved for a long >time. Thit name is Uri Geller. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ME thinks John Winston and Uri Geller have something in common!!!!!!!!! __________________________________________________________________________ Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cis.ohio-state.edu!rutgers!noao!amethyst!organpipe.uug.arizona.edu!helium!corleyj From: corleyj@helium.gas.uug.arizona.edu (Jason D Corley ) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Monuments of Mars Message-ID: <1992Nov18.210532.21581@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu> Date: 18 Nov 92 21:05:32 GMT References: <1992Nov17.044222.12323@odin.corp.sgi.com> <1992Nov17.181120.8910@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu> <1992Nov18.125755.1488@dct.ac.uk> Sender: news@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu Organization: University of Arizona, Tucson, AZ Lines: 25 In article <1992Nov18.125755.1488@dct.ac.uk> ccdarg@dct.ac.uk (Alan Greig) writes: >In article <1992Nov17.181120.8910@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu>, corleyj@helium.gas.uug.arizona.edu (Jason D Corley ) writes: >> >> Nope. Can't see 'em. Can't see ANYTHING man-made from Earth orbit >> and yes that includes the Great Wall of China. (I'm speaking of >> course of naked-eye viewing. I doubt that the US gov't would take >> kindly to us approaching them for .gifs of their spy satellite >> photos, even if they are only of the pyramids ;-) > >I don't believe this. Leaving the great wall aside for a moment, what >about some of the larger man made lakes? And by 'earth orbit' just how >high? >-- >Alan Greig Janet: Alan@UK.AC.DUNDEE-TECH Yes, I have been corrected from several quarters so I will relent: 1. You can see man-made lakes from orbit, and 2. With certain photographic equipment and correct atmospheric conditions you can see the Great Wall from a low orbit. Sorry about the inconvenience: Jason My addition to the Alien Race Race: The Biltshar, the most hated and feared race in the Galaxy because they are shaped like Ding Dongs!!!!!!! Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12779 alt.alien.visitors:11150 sci.skeptic:34363 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!haven.umd.edu!uunet!unislc!erc From: erc@unislc.uucp (Ed Carp) Subject: Re: Space Craft Without Pants X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6] References: Message-ID: <1992Nov19.010000.1598@unislc.uucp> Organization: Unisys Corporation SLC Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 01:00:00 GMT Lines: 19 The Magician (esi102@cck.coventry.ac.uk) wrote: : Solar Max ??? that does'nt have anything to do with Fantastic Max does it ? : you know.. that cartoon kid who travels the cosmos in a toy space ship : to save the galaxy, with his teddy bear robot ? I thought Solar Max was a satellite... -- Ed Carp erc@apple.com, erc@saturn.upl.com 801/538-0177 "There is nothing to seek and nothing to find. You're already enlightened, and all the words in the world won't give you what you already have. The wise seeker, therefore, is concerned with one thing only: to become aware of what he already is, of the True Self within." -- Zen maxim -- Ed Carp erc@apple.com, erc@saturn.upl.com 801/538-0177 "There is nothing to seek and nothing to find. You're already enlightened, and all the words in the world won't give you what you already have. The wise Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12780 alt.alien.visitors:11151 sci.skeptic:34364 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!nntp-server.caltech.edu!SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU!CARL From: carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU (Carl J Lydick) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Dolphin-Aliens? Date: 18 Nov 1992 20:06:57 GMT Organization: HST Wide Field/Planetary Camera Lines: 19 Distribution: world Message-ID: <1ee7p1INNpem@gap.caltech.edu> References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <69712@cup.portal.com>, Reply-To: carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU NNTP-Posting-Host: sol1.gps.caltech.edu In article , stone@cwis.unomaha.edu (Travis Stone) writes: >John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >>Even now, friendly dolphins are being >>used to help heal mentally handicapped children. I have found these less >>fortunate kids relate more to the friendly dolphins than humans. > >Really? Interesting. When did he do this research? Where? >Whom did he do it with? Where did he publish his findings? Isn't it obvious? John_-_Winston was the subject of the research. Too bad it didn't pan out. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Carl J Lydick | INTERnet: CARL@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU | NSI/HEPnet: SOL1::CARL Disclaimer: Hey, I understand VAXen and VMS. That's what I get paid for. My understanding of astronomy is purely at the amateur level (or below). So unless what I'm saying is directly related to VAX/VMS, don't hold me or my organization responsible for it. If it IS related to VAX/VMS, you can try to hold me responsible for it, but my organization had nothing to do with it. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cis.ohio-state.edu!rutgers!noao!amethyst!organpipe.uug.arizona.edu!helium!corleyj From: corleyj@helium.gas.uug.arizona.edu (Jason D Corley ) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Moon sightings Message-ID: <1992Nov18.211627.21695@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu> Date: 18 Nov 92 21:16:27 GMT References: Sender: news@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu Organization: University of Arizona, Tucson, AZ Lines: 50 In article coakley@cch.coventry.ac.uk (Cpl.Flash ) writes: > > I'm not to sure of this as i dont have the book to hand (Above > Top Secret), but wasn't there a report that the crew of the eagle > (Armstrong et al), when they left the module, turned round and > found themselves looking at alien craft at the top of a crater? > I think armstrong said something like "..my god there's hundreds > of them". I'm not to sure because as i say i don't have the book with > me,could anyone send me the full report (transcript if possible). > > Thanks > Garrett Coakley I think the transcript went something like this: ALDRIN: Neil, why don't you go check out what's over that hill? ARMSTRONG: Roger Buzz. (pause) ALDRIN: Pssst. Alien guy. C'mere..whoops is this mike still open? (pause) ARMSTRONG: My god, it's full of stars! ALDRIN: I didn't copy that Neil. ARMSTRONG: I mean my god there's hundreds of them! ALDRIN: Hundreds of what Neil, hundreds of what are you getting this Houston? HOUSTON: Ah, we copy Eagle. MIBs standing by to repress information. ALDRIN: Repress information on my mark, Houston. ARMSTRONG: They're everywhere, and they're NUDE! ALDRIN: Repress information in 5...4...3.. ARMSTRONG: Little blue people...they're putting their clothes on now... HOUSTON: Ahhh, can we hold on that repress, Aldrin? ALDRIN: Roger, but not long, Houston, whats the holdup over? HOUSTON: We've got to set up the leaks now for the crackpots to publish in their books. ARMSTRONG: They're all wearing white! Except one who is wearing red...he has a white beard...wait...wait...Buzz this is amazing! They are writing something in the dirt! Buzz! Buzz! ALDRIN: Right, Neil, right, what does it say? Houston, we are coming down to the wire up here is the repress a go over? (pause) ALDRIN: Is repress go over? HOUSTON: Repress is go, Eagle. On your mark. ARMSTRONG: It says...wait...it says..."C...Ki...Keybo is a..." ALDRIN: Repress in 5...4...3... ARMSTRONG: "Keybo is a wee...weener...weinerhead!" Keybo is a weinerhead! That's amazing! ALDRIN: 1...0...mark HOUSTON: Repress is go, Eagle. (pause) Jason Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!news.claremont.edu!nntp-server.caltech.edu!magney From: kanga.caltech.edu!magney (Michael Agney) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Dolphin-Aliens? Date: 18 Nov 1992 19:09:26 GMT Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena Lines: 107 Message-ID: <1ee4d6INNqcq@gap.caltech.edu> References: <69712@cup.portal.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: krusty.caltech.edu Originator: magney@krusty In article <69712@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: > Subject: Dolphins. > Now at the cost of maybe starting a rior, I'm going to mention a few things > that Uri Geller has to say about Dolphins, so here goes; Uri claims Flipper > is really an alien from outer space and is here to share the secrets of his > own highly advanced extraterrestrial civilization with humanity (Well I > don't know about that. I've never seen a Dolphin driving a flying saucer, > have you?) I've never seen a Dolphin driving a flying saucer, but I also haven't seen a Bigfoot, a Grey, etc. driving one either. Besides, the only problem a dolphin flying saucer would have would be extra mass, from filling it with water. > Uri claims he once worked with the U.S. Navy in a hush-hush experiment to > turn dolphins into living torpedoes. This is certainly believable. > Their brains are much bigger than the human brain, and they can communicate > with each other even when they're thousands of miles apart . They can smile > and make facial expression to each other. Brain size isn't everything, of course (elephants also have larger brains) but they probably are intelligent. Sonar makes an effective long-distance communication mechanism. I seriously doubt the part about facial expressions, but do they really need them? > It is well-known that dolphins want to communicate with man-experiments have > already proved that. Um. Well, maybe. I'm not sure. > Once they learn to share their secrets with humanity, we'll understand the > miracles Geller says they can perform. Even now, friendly dolphins are being > used to help heal mentally handicapped children. I have found these less > fortunate kids relate more to the friendly dolphins than humans. > Dolphins, swim with mentally handicapped youngsters in pools under the > supervision of doctors. Amazingly, after each session, the kids show marked > improvement-and researchers are convinced the children are being healed by > sound waves transmitted by the gentle, caring mammals. I don't know about the sound waves part, but the rest is perfectly plausible. In fact, I think I might have heard something like this before. > Their highly developed sensors can instantly detect even the most minor > physical disorder. When a dolphin looks at a person underwater, it > automatically gives him a complete scan-better than a hospital ultra-scan > examination, believe me. It's like an X-ray with souund waves, This is true. But what can the dolphins do with their knowledge? > Instead of trying to unlock the incredible scientific and medical knowledge > stored in dolphins' brains, scientists are spending more time training them > to kill than they are doing research into how dolphins can be used to help > mankind. This is likely true, and not good; but this sort of thing is not confined to dolphins. > I once went to a secret training institute where dolphins were being geared > to carry deadly weapons. > Scientists there even nicknamed them Kamikaze Dolphins because of their > ability to aim themselves at ships, then there would be no trace of them > after the explosion. Some days I'm embarrassed to call myself a scientist. > The gentle creatures are being used as aquatic midwives to swim with mothers > during childbirth and help relax them. Just make sure the baby doesn't drown :-) > This is me (John Winston) talking now. That would be all well and good but > some people wouldn't believe anything Uri Geller says. > John Winston. I don't have much respect for anyone who said they wouldn't believe ANYTHING Uri says. It's just that a lot of what he says does fail to fit what the average scientist believes about the universe (and since a scientist studies the universe as a career, yd would know a bit more about the nature of the universe than the average person). -- | Michael Agney | Yd - gender neutral pronoun | | | | | | Source: Stories by Alison | | magney@cco.caltech.edu | Tellure, back issues of Analog | Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12784 alt.alien.visitors:11154 sci.skeptic:34370 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!rosevax!aquarius!grante From: grante@aquarius.rosemount.com (Grant Edwards) Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: <1992Nov18.175221.17658@rosevax.rosemount.com> Sender: news@rosevax.rosemount.com (USENET News administrator) Nntp-Posting-Host: aquarius Reply-To: grante@aquarius.rosemount.com (Grant Edwards) Organization: Rosemount, Inc. References: <1992Nov16.192115.21473@digi.lonestar.org> Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 17:52:21 GMT Lines: 15 gpalo@digi.lonestar.org (Gerry Palo) writes: : Scientific skepticism about astrology has never been based on solid : scientific investigation. It only is based on a revulsion against the : essentially non-scientific methodology of astrology and the often crude : application of it in a superstitious way. Sorry, there have been plenty of double-blind tests whose protocols were approved by astrologers in advance. The results were ALL negative. -- Grant Edwards |Yow! this must be what it's Rosemount Inc. |like to be a COLLEGE |GRADUATE!! grante@aquarius.rosemount.com | Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12785 alt.alien.visitors:11155 sci.skeptic:34371 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!doc.ic.ac.uk!uknet!abekrd!uk96sup!uk96sup!mark From: mark@uk96sup.uk.haus.com (Mark Aggar) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Past Life regression - the proof (was GSI Day) Message-ID: Date: 18 Nov 92 09:22:28 GMT References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <69301@cup.portal.com> Organization: Harris Adacom Corporation. Lines: 39 In v462etnn@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (David L Anderson) writes: >In article <69301@cup.portal.com>, John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes... >>Subject: Where We Came From. >> I have found out what I have been it more than 14 lifetimes. One was as an >>American Indian and one was on the planet Venus. >>John Winston >You offer so many points to refute. I'll start with this one: >do you have anything other than anecdotal (ie. empirical) >evidence to indicate that you've lived past lives? Are you >aware of studies done by scientists into past lives and the >lack of empirical evidence to support this kooky hypothesis? The only way, at this moment that you are going to prove for _yourself_ whether or not the "past life experience" is a reality, is to go and have yourself hypnotically regressed into a previous incarnation. With everything that I have read on this subject, each subject who has undertaken this regression *knows* that the images they are seeing or remembering are _NOT_ produced due to a vivid imagination - they are memories. With this in mind, I am going to get myself regressed shortly and I will give you an honest account of what happened (barring all the gory and personal details). So go on, you skeptics, If you don't believe a word of what is being written, either butt out or go and do some personal research! >I'll leave the ad hominem out this time, but you've opened >holes so big one could route an interstate through them. ..but to construct an interstate, you normally have to do some surveying of the land first. Mark Aggar >David Anderson Organization: Sophomore, Math/Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cis.ohio-state.edu!news.sei.cmu.edu!fs7.ece.cmu.edu!crabapple.srv.cs.cmu.edu!andrew.cmu.edu!aw2s+ Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Message-ID: <4f2g0HK00UhW86hksd@andrew.cmu.edu> Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 17:13:39 -0500 From: Andrew Todd Weinstein Subject: check this news out from clari Lines: 12 [ The F-B-I is looking into allegations the national security was put at grave risk because of lax security at a NASA research center in Mountain View, California. An internal review suggests the facility was left open to spies.] this is good news if we are to find out about some govt. ufo coverup I got this from clari.news.headlines bboard Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12786 alt.alien.visitors:11157 sci.skeptic:34374 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Abort Message-ID: <69787@cup.portal.com> Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 18:23:00 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> Lines: 6 Dear Ex-aliens: It was mentioned that it would be good to have a dictionary of another language. I was given some words used by another planet called Legart. About one in a hundred of the words are the same as ours. I remember one of the words that was the same was the word abort. John Winston Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12787 alt.alien.visitors:11158 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: UFOs and Newage Message-ID: <69788@cup.portal.com> Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 18:26:22 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) Distribution: world References: <64264@cup.portal.com> <69579@cup.portal.com> <69682@cup.portal.com> Lines: 3 Dear Pyramid Folks: I just read a book about the pyramid of records that was mentioned by E. Cayce. Maybe I post something about it later. John Winston Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12788 alt.alien.visitors:11159 alt.religion.kibology:4725 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!saimiri.primate.wisc.edu!caen!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology Subject: Re: Bigfootf spaceman? Message-ID: <69789@cup.portal.com> Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 18:30:40 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) Distribution: world References: <67397@cup.portal.com> <69758@cup.portal.com> Lines: 4 Dear Monster Watchers: The information about the flying things came from an old article out of some Tabloid. The magazine name was not with the article. John Winston. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!haven.umd.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Auras Message-ID: <69790@cup.portal.com> Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 18:34:10 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) Distribution: world References: <1dscbvINNe88@male.EBay.Sun.COM> <69463@cup.portal.com> Lines: 3 Dear Folks: I am wondering if Kathie has had a chance to seperate the ghost from the auras on her TV set. You have us in suspense. John Winston. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: auras auras everywhere Message-ID: <69791@cup.portal.com> Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 18:36:29 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <16850@mindlink.bc.ca> <68758@cup.portal.com> <69038@cup.portal.com> <69070@cup.portal.com> <69322@cup.portal.com> <69465@cup.portal.com> Lines: 3 Dear One and All: I wonder if Boney Collen has gone over the ocean. I hope someone will bring her back to me. John Winston. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Aliens.Part1 Message-ID: <69792@cup.portal.com> Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 18:38:30 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) Distribution: alt References: <69621@cup.portal.com> Lines: 4 Dear Folks: I was wondering if the maker of this collection got this material directly out of Behold The Pale House or if it is new material. John Winston Organization: Sophomore, Math/Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cis.ohio-state.edu!news.sei.cmu.edu!fs7.ece.cmu.edu!crabapple.srv.cs.cmu.edu!andrew.cmu.edu!aw2s+ Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Message-ID: Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 17:16:38 -0500 From: Andrew Todd Weinstein Subject: about the previous post Lines: 9 in that news clip I posted above, I wonder what they meant by "national security" being threatened. Hmmm, I wonder what could be so top secret that NASA could be keeping secret from everyone, maybe ufo's and aliens? Just a wild guess Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Out Planet Message-ID: <69796@cup.portal.com> Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 18:55:28 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) Distribution: world References: <1591.479.uupcb@homebase.com> Lines: 2 My Dear Joseph: Me thinkest Thou doth attemptest to pull my leg. John Winton. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!natinst.com!news.dell.com!texsun!cronkite.Central.Sun.COM!west.West.Sun.COM!male.EBay.Sun.COM!tinkerbell!kathieg From: kathieg@tinkerbell.EBay.Sun.COM (Good good good good vibrations) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Letter Message-ID: <1ee51sINNg2j@male.EBay.Sun.COM> Date: 18 Nov 92 19:20:28 GMT Reply-To: kathieg@tinkerbell.EBay.Sun.COM Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc. Lines: 11 NNTP-Posting-Host: tinkerbell.ebay.sun.com Jeff, Good job. Please e-mail me a copy. kathieg@tinkerbell.EBay.Sun.COM I would like to print it out, and put my name in your name spot, and also send it to the Pres. I would hope everyone in this group would do the same thing. If he gets enough of these letters, he might just listen. Kathie ;.) Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12790 alt.alien.visitors:11166 sci.skeptic:34377 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!nntp-server.caltech.edu!SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU!CARL From: carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU (Carl J Lydick) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Past Life regression - the proof (was GSI Day) Date: 19 Nov 1992 03:26:09 GMT Organization: HST Wide Field/Planetary Camera Lines: 44 Distribution: world Message-ID: <1ef1ghINNhgv@gap.caltech.edu> References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <69301@cup.portal.com> , Reply-To: carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU NNTP-Posting-Host: sol1.gps.caltech.edu In article , mark@uk96sup.uk.haus.com (Mark Aggar) writes: =The only way, at this moment that you are going to prove for _yourself_ =whether or not the "past life experience" is a reality, is to go and have =yourself hypnotically regressed into a previous incarnation. = =With everything that I have read on this subject, each subject who has =undertaken this regression *knows* that the images they are seeing or =remembering are _NOT_ produced due to a vivid imagination - they are =memories. Yup. That's a characteristic of hypnotically-induced memories. They look and feel just like REAL memories. The subject is usually incapable of distinguishing the hypnotically-induced memories from memories of actual events. That's why courts these days won't allow testimony that involves memories that were elicited by hypnosis. =With this in mind, I am going to get myself regressed shortly and I will =give you an honest account of what happened (barring all the gory and =personal details). And that personal account won't be worth the electricity it costs to send it out over the net. =So go on, you skeptics, If you don't believe a word of what is being written, =either butt out or go and do some personal research! Why must we do personal research when REAL research has proven that "real" memories of things that never happened can be produced via hypnosis? =>I'll leave the ad hominem out this time, but you've opened =>holes so big one could route an interstate through them. = =..but to construct an interstate, you normally have to do some surveying =of the land first. Yeah, but you're about to sink some pylons in some quicksand. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Carl J Lydick | INTERnet: CARL@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU | NSI/HEPnet: SOL1::CARL Disclaimer: Hey, I understand VAXen and VMS. That's what I get paid for. My understanding of astronomy is purely at the amateur level (or below). So unless what I'm saying is directly related to VAX/VMS, don't hold me or my organization responsible for it. If it IS related to VAX/VMS, you can try to hold me responsible for it, but my organization had nothing to do with it. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12791 alt.alien.visitors:11167 sci.skeptic:34378 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!caen!uunet!unislc!erc From: erc@unislc.uucp (Ed Carp) Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6] References: <1992Nov18.175221.17658@rosevax.rosemount.com> Message-ID: <1992Nov19.034017.15219@unislc.uucp> Organization: Unisys Corporation SLC Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 03:40:17 GMT Lines: 27 Grant Edwards (grante@aquarius.rosemount.com) wrote: : gpalo@digi.lonestar.org (Gerry Palo) writes: : : Scientific skepticism about astrology has never been based on solid : : scientific investigation. It only is based on a revulsion against the : : essentially non-scientific methodology of astrology and the often crude : : application of it in a superstitious way. : : Sorry, there have been plenty of double-blind tests whose protocols were : approved by astrologers in advance. The results were ALL negative. Easy to say, hard to back up. Specifics, please? Bibliography - names of scientists, institutions, dates, titles of published reports, and journals where published, please... -- Ed Carp erc@apple.com, erc@saturn.upl.com 801/538-0177 "There is nothing to seek and nothing to find. You're already enlightened, and all the words in the world won't give you what you already have. The wise seeker, therefore, is concerned with one thing only: to become aware of what he already is, of the True Self within." -- Zen maxim -- Ed Carp erc@apple.com, erc@saturn.upl.com 801/538-0177 "There is nothing to seek and nothing to find. You're already enlightened, and all the words in the world won't give you what you already have. The wise Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!mcsun!sunic!aun.uninett.no!ugle.unit.no!alf.uib.no!ii.uib.no!bjornts From: bjornts@ii.uib.no (Bjoern Tore Sund) Subject: Re: Dolphin-Aliens? Message-ID: <1992Nov18.121306.7903@alf.uib.no> Sender: usenet@alf.uib.no (Bergen University Newsaccount) Organization: Dept. of Informatics, University of Bergen References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <69712@cup.portal.com> Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 12:13:06 GMT Lines: 13 In article <69712@cup.portal.com>, John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: |> This is me (John Winston) talking now. That would be all well and good but |> some people wouldn't believe anything Uri Geller says. |> John Winston. And you saying it is supposed to make it more probable, John? -- ___ ___ __ |__) | Bjoern Tore Sund (BT) Quote: "Nothing!" |__) | bjornts@ii.uib.no - Marvin Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:11169 alt.magnus.and.ketil:51 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.magnus.and.ketil Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!uunet!mcsun!sunic!aun.uninett.no!ugle.unit.no!alf.uib.no!alf!magnus From: magnus@bark-fddi.ii.uib.no (Magnus Alvestad) Subject: Re: Monsters and Etc. In-Reply-To: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com's message of Tue, 17 Nov 92 06:33:53 PST Message-ID: <1992Nov18.185851.26882@alf.uib.no> Sender: usenet@alf.uib.no (Bergen University Newsaccount) Reply-To: magnus@ii.uib.no Organization: UVBS -> SFK/T-DSA / SOPS - HOS / RNoN References: <69357@cup.portal.com> <69443@cup.portal.com> <69514@cup.portal.com> <69560@cup.portal.com> <69683@cup.portal.com> Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 18:58:51 GMT Lines: 10 >>>>> On Tue, 17 Nov 92 06:33:53 PST, John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com >>>>> said: John> Dear Monster Watchers: I'll try to answer the questions John> later. I must go to work now. John Winston. Dear John_-_, I'll try to flame you for this later, but I've got some work to do now. -Magnus Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!wupost!uunet!virgin!unhtel!morwyn!forrie From: forrie@morwyn.uucp (Forrest Aldrich) Subject: Re: A letter to Clinton/Gore References: <1992Nov18.074528.14279@netcom.com> Organization: Vision Graphics Dover, NH USA Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 01:48:54 GMT Message-ID: <1992Nov19.014854.513@morwyn.uucp> Reply-To: morwyn.uucp!forrie@unhtel.unh.edu (Forrest Aldrich - SysAdmin) Lines: 65 From article <1992Nov18.074528.14279@netcom.com>, jeffp@netcom.com (Jeff) has written: +-------------------- | Dear Mr. Clinton and Mr. Gore, | | This is not a letter of congratulations on your win of the | presidency, but I do congratulate you, and wish you great success | in the years to come. +-------------------- Well, I would move to include a congratulations as a warm opening... even though they have received _many_ of these, it serves to 'set the mood'. Immediately, when I read that, I felt discouraged. [ ... some omittance, for brevity ... ] +-------------------- | I was very glad to hear of your recent meetings with Mr. Bill | Moyers, and I do believe this is a great statement on your part | that you intend to help the american people and create and honest | government. I call upon you to rid us of the Secret Government, to | tear-down the wall of deciet that has separated the people from the | truth for so many decades, and make the US a truly | democratic society, and the world, a better place to live. +-------------------- +-------------------- | We will be watching, waiting, and hoping, that you will live up to | the greatness that is within you, and protect liberty and | happiness for us all. +-------------------- Generally, a good letter ... The letter is good, but very poetic in some respects. I would move to write in a more detached manner, and perhaps include some specifics with regard to incidents... for example, you might include something specific to a dramatic abduction case; one that has been highly publicized... And I would probably steer away from being so accusational about the government, in a negative fashion. Again, maybe some factual accounts to support these accusations would be more appropriate. In addition to those, I would also suggest that the letter (if you agree to work with a 'group effort') be accompanied by many signatures with verifiable addresses and phone numbers (?)... those types usually get quicker responses. The trouble with that is how would you coordinate it? :) This is an excellent start, Jeff, indeed. Thanks for posting it. If you're willing (and others are) to work as a group with editing and submitting suggested inclusions/omissions/editing, this will be an excellent effort... dunno if doing it via a.a.v would be appropriate, but perhaps through private emailing... I can't imagine such a letter to be less than 4 pages, typed... particularly if we all work on it and so forth. Forrest -- ----------- Forrest Aldrich ----------- ------- morwyn!forrie@unhtel.unh.edu ------- ---- ---- -- VISION GRAPHICS -- Dover, NH - USA -- ------------------------------------------------------ Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!uunet!mcsun!sunic!ugle.unit.no!alf.uib.no!alf!magnus From: magnus@bark-fddi.ii.uib.no (Magnus Alvestad) Subject: Re: Moon sightings In-Reply-To: coakley@cch.coventry.ac.uk's message of Wed, 18 Nov 1992 11:32:14 GMT Message-ID: <1992Nov18.191231.27299@alf.uib.no> Sender: usenet@alf.uib.no (Bergen University Newsaccount) Reply-To: magnus@ii.uib.no Organization: UVBS -> SFK/T-DSA / SOPS - HOS / RNoN References: Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 19:12:31 GMT Lines: 14 >>>>> On Wed, 18 Nov 1992 11:32:14 GMT, coakley@cch.coventry.ac.uk >>>>> (Cpl.Flash ) said: Flash> looking at alien craft at the top of a crater? I Flash> think armstrong said something like "..my god there's Flash> hundreds of them". I'm not to sure because as i No, no; he said 'Oh my god - it's full of stars!' - of course this was cencored by the CIA. Dr Asimov, however, who was at that time involved in a number of Top Secret projects, including the Philadelphia project, later used it in his book '2001'. It's all there. -Magnus Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!sun-barr!cs.utexas.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uunet.ca!hombas!joseph.daniels From: joseph.daniels@homebase.com (Joseph Daniels) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Moon sightings Message-ID: <1723.479.uupcb@homebase.com> Date: 19 Nov 92 04:35:00 GMT Distribution: world Organization: Home Base BBS - St. Thomas, Ontario - 519-633-7253 Reply-To: joseph.daniels@homebase.com (Joseph Daniels) Lines: 146 To: coakley@cch.coventry.ac.uk (Cpl.Flash ) From:joseph.daniels@homebase.com CP| I'm not to sure of this as i dont have the book to hand (Above | Top Secret), but wasn't there a report that the crew of the eagle | (Armstrong et al), when they left the module, turned round and | found themselves looking at alien craft at the top of a crater? `------------------------------------------------------------------------ (The following file was posted on InfoNet London Ontario) Alien Moon Base by UFO Joe, InfoNet Is there an "Alien Base" on the Moon. More and more people are coming forward with stories of an Alien presence on the Moon. Rumors are that their "Moon Base" is on the dark side of the moon, the side we never see from Earth. Did you ever wonder why the Moon landings stopped and why have we not tried to build a Moon Base. It seems a better and easier idea than a floating space station? According to Neil Armstrong the Aliens have a base on the Moon and wanted us to get off and stay off the Moon! Milton Cooper a Naval Intellegence Officer tell us that the Intellegence community calls the Alien Base "Luna": LUNA: The Alien base on the far side of the Moon. It was seen and filmed by the Apollo Astronauts. A base, a mining operation using very large machines, and the very large alien craft described in sighting reports as MOTHER SHIPS exist there. - Milton Cooper * * * Did Apollo 11 Encounter UFOs on the Moon? from the Book "Above Top Secret" by Timothy Good According to hitherto unconfirmed reports, both Neil Armstrong and Edwin "Buzz" Aldrin saw UFOs shortly after that historic landing on the Moon in Apollo 11 on 21 July 1969. I remember hearing one of the astronauts refer to a "light" in or on a crater during the television transmission, followed by a request from mission control for further information. Nothing more was heard. According to a former NASA employee Otto Binder, unnamed radio hams with their own VHF receiving facilities that bypassed NASA's broadcasting outlets picked up the following exchange: NASA: Whats there? Mission Control calling Apollo 11... Apollo11: These "Babies" are huge, Sir! Enormous! OH MY GOD! You wouldn't believe it! I'm telling you there are other spacecraft out there, Lined up on the far side of the crater edge! They're on the Moon watching us! In 1979 Maurice Chatelain, former chief of NASA Communications Systems confirmed that Armstrong had indeed reported seeing two UFOs on the rim of a crater. "The encounter was common knowledge in NASA," he revealed, "but nobody has talked about it until now." Soviet scientists were allegedly the first to confirm the incident. "According to our information, the encounter was reported immediately after the landing of the module," said Dr. Vladimir Azhazha, a physicist and Professor of Mathematics at Moscow University. "Neil Armstrong relayed the message to Mission Control that two large, mysterious objects were watching them after having landed near the moon module. But his message was never heard by the public - because NASA censored it. "According to another Soviet scientist, Dr. Aleksandr Kazantsev, Buss Aldrin took color movie film of the UFOs from inside the module, and continued filming them after he and Armstrong went outside. Dr. Azhazha claims that the UFOs departed minutes after the astronauts came out on to the lunar surface. Maurice Chatelain also confirmed that Apollo 11's radio transmissions were interrupted on several occasions in order to hide the news from the public. Before dismissing Chatelain's sensational claims, it is worth noting his impressive background in the aerospace industry and space program. His first job after moving from France was as an electronics engineer with Convair, specializing in telecommunications, telemetry and radar. In 1959 he was in charge of an electromagnetic research group, developing new radar and telecommunications systems for Ryan. One of his eleven patents was an automatic radar landing system that ignited retro rockets at a given altitude, used in the Ranger and Surveyor flights to the Moon. Later, at North American Aviation, Chatelain was offered the job of designing and building the Apollo communications and data-processing systems. Chatelain claims that "all Apollo and Gemini flights were followed, both at a distance and sometimes also quite closely, by space vehicles of extraterrestrial origin - flying saucers, or UFOs, if you want to call them by that name. Every time it occurred, the astronauts informed Mission Control, who then ordered absolute silence." He goes on to say: "I think that Walter Schirra aboard Mercury 8 was the first of the astronauts to use the code name 'Santa Claus' to indicate the presence of flying saucers next to space capsules. However, his announcements were barely noticed by the general public. It was a little different when James Lovell on board the Apollo 8 command module came out from behind the moon and said for everybody to hear: 'PLEASE BE INFORMED THAT THERE IS A SANTA CLAUS.' Even though this happened on Christmas Day 1968, many people sensed a hidden meaning in those words." Rumors persist. NASA may well be a civilian agency, but many of its programs are funded by the defence budget and most of the astronauts are subject to military security regulations. Apart from the fact that the National Security Agency screens all films and probably radio communications as well. We have the statements by Otto Binder, Dr. Garry Henderson and Maurice Chatelain that the astronauts were under strict orders not to discuss their sightings. And Gordon Cooper has testified to a United Nations committee that one of the astronauts actually witnessed a UFO on the ground. If there is no secrecy, why has this sighting not been made public? A certain professor, who wished to remain anonymous, was engaged in a discussion with Neil Armstrong during a NASA symposium. Professor: What REALLY happened out there with Apollo 11? Armstrong: It was incredible, of course we had always known there was a possibility, the fact is, we were warned off!(by the Aliens). There was never any question then of a space station or a moon city. Professor: How do you mean "warned off"? Armstrong: I can't go into details, except to say that their ships were far superior to ours both in size and technology - Boy, were they big!...and menacing! No, there is no question of a space station. >>> Continued to next message --- . SLMR 2.1a . InfoNet London (519)649-1453 (Hit ^C and enter HELP at $ Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!sun-barr!cs.utexas.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uunet.ca!hombas!joseph.daniels From: joseph.daniels@homebase.com (Joseph Daniels) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Moon sightings 2/2 Message-ID: <1724.479.uupcb@homebase.com> Date: 19 Nov 92 04:35:00 GMT Distribution: world Organization: Home Base BBS - St. Thomas, Ontario - 519-633-7253 Reply-To: joseph.daniels@homebase.com (Joseph Daniels) Lines: 14 >>> Continued from previous message Professor: But NASA had other missions after Apollo 11? Armstrong: Naturally - NASA was committed at that time, and couldn't risk panic on Earth. But it really was a quick scoop and back again. Armstrong confirmed that the story was true but refused to go into further detail, beyond admitting that the CIA was behind the cover-up. --- . SLMR 2.1a . InfoNet London (519)649-1453 (Hit ^C and enter HELP at $ Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!think.com!sdd.hp.com!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uunet.ca!hombas!joseph.daniels From: joseph.daniels@homebase.com (Joseph Daniels) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Moon sightings Message-ID: <1725.479.uupcb@homebase.com> Date: 19 Nov 92 04:42:00 GMT Distribution: world Organization: Home Base BBS - St. Thomas, Ontario - 519-633-7253 Reply-To: joseph.daniels@homebase.com (Joseph Daniels) Lines: 14 To: magnus@bark-fddi.ii.uib.no (Magnus Alvestad) From: joseph.daniels@homebase.com MA|No, no; he said 'Oh my god - it's full of stars!' - of course this was |cencored by the CIA. Dr Asimov, however, who was at that time involved |in a number of Top Secret projects, including the Philadelphia |project, later used it in his book '2001'. It's all there. `----------------------------------------------------------------------- I thought Arthur C. Clark wrote '2001'... --- . SLMR 2.1a . I'm in shape ... round's a shape isn't it? Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12792 alt.alien.visitors:11175 sci.skeptic:34404 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!unislc!erc From: erc@unislc.uucp (Ed Carp) Subject: Re: Past Life regression - the proof (was GSI Day) X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6] References: Message-ID: <1992Nov19.103043.9319@unislc.uucp> Organization: Unisys Corporation SLC Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 10:30:43 GMT Lines: 16 There are lots of books and articles dealing with past-life research. I refer you to Ian Stevenson's "Twenty Cases Suggestive of Reincarnation" and "The Search for Bridey Murphy" which was written (if memory serves) by a Boston psychologist who originally set out to debunk the theory, and became a believer. -- Ed Carp erc@apple.com, erc@saturn.upl.com 801/538-0177 "There is nothing to seek and nothing to find. You're already enlightened, and all the words in the world won't give you what you already have. The wise seeker, therefore, is concerned with one thing only: to become aware of what he already is, of the True Self within." -- Zen maxim -- Ed Carp erc@apple.com, erc@saturn.upl.com 801/538-0177 "There is nothing to seek and nothing to find. You're already enlightened, and all the words in the world won't give you what you already have. The wise Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!csn!scicom!paranet!p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Michael.Corbin From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: A Letter To Clinton/gore Message-ID: <141089.2B0B16A5@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Date: 19 Nov 92 02:47:01 GMT Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26) Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/428.0 - From: jeffp@netcom.com (Jeff) > Date: 18 Nov 92 07:45:28 GMT > Organization: BeHereNow > Message-ID: <1992Nov18.074528.14279@netcom.com> > Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors > Below is a letter I have written to President elect, and Vice President > Clinton/Gore regarding UFO secrecy. I would appreciate any constructive > comments... > Anybody figure out how to reach H. Winkler yet? > Jeff- I may have access to Winkler. What do you want with him? Mike -- Michael Corbin - via ParaNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12793 alt.alien.visitors:11177 sci.skeptic:34407 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: 1800 Encounter. Message-ID: <69832@cup.portal.com> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 92 06:18:15 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> Lines: 5 Dear Astral Folk: Boy I just got back from the OOBE train with the idea that I should tell you the truth about an Encounter of the Third Kind that happened during the 1880s (I think). If I can pull this one off without out getting shot I'll be money ahead. John Winston. I'll try to post it in the future. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12794 alt.alien.visitors:11178 sci.skeptic:34408 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Dolphin-Aliens? Message-ID: <69833@cup.portal.com> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 92 06:31:45 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu>, <69712@cup.portal.com> Lines: 3 Dear Spellers: I confess. You've caught me. I spelled this like thit. I've obviously caught Kiboitis. John Winston. Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:11179 sci.skeptic:34410 alt.religion.kibology:4748 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!uknet!sersun1!shepa From: shepa@sersun1 (Shepherd A J) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic,alt.religion.kibology Subject: Re: Space Craft Without Pants... IN BED! Message-ID: <6517@sersun1.essex.ac.uk> Date: 19 Nov 92 14:16:41 GMT References: Sender: news@sersun1.essex.ac.uk Lines: 20 X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6] James Kibo Parry (kibo@world.std.com) wrote: : Barangus! Mondo bazoomo! Wox wox wox oggle grebbly nad bork bork bock : fnord egrep roff gnogin fsck zowie, ecky-THUMP! : i ecky-thump? You mean that Yorkshire folk came from the stars? I suppose Alien3 could compound this strange theory. (Cue Glen A. Larson ripoff) "By eck, folks reckon that thy ancestors came from t'stars, and even reight naw theer's yorkshire folk art theer feightin 'genst even sut'hners fur theer very black pudden & ferrets. Out theer in t'galaxy..." -- And the dandy isn't sure, | Antony J. "Doppelganger" Shepherd If there's a cure for his malaise, | shepa@essex.ac.uk Another pie in the face, | --------------------------------- Another time, and another place... | "Dandy in Disguise" - Steve Wynn Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!malgudi.oar.net!caen!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!ira.uka.de!ira.uka.de!uni-heidelberg!aix320a.urz.uni-heidelberg.de!y41 From: y41@aix320a.urz.uni-heidelberg.de (Jeffrey Hazelwood) Subject: FAQ FOR THIS GROUP NEEDED!! Message-ID: <1992Nov19.152553.8751@sun0.urz.uni-heidelberg.de> Sender: news@sun0.urz.uni-heidelberg.de (NetNews) Organization: University of Heidelberg, Germany Date: Thu, 19 Nov 92 15:25:53 GMT Lines: 11 Hello. Is there a FAQ for this group? Can someone tell me where I can FTP it, or you can beam it to me. Thanks. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey T. Hazelwood Universität Heidelberg EMAIL: y41@ix.urz.uni-heidelberg.de Heidelberg, Germany ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12797 alt.alien.visitors:11181 sci.skeptic:34424 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!ogicse!news.u.washington.edu!news.uoregon.edu!darkwing.uoregon.edu!delancey From: delancey@darkwing.uoregon.edu (Scott C DeLancey) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Past Life regression - the proof (was GSI Day) Message-ID: <1egiutINNgkq@pith.uoregon.edu> Date: 19 Nov 92 17:30:05 GMT Article-I.D.: pith.1egiutINNgkq References: <69301@cup.portal.com> Organization: University of Oregon Network Services Lines: 26 NNTP-Posting-Host: darkwing.uoregon.edu In article mark@uk96sup.uk.haus.com (Mark Aggar) writes: > >The only way, at this moment that you are going to prove for _yourself_ >whether or not the "past life experience" is a reality, is to go and have >yourself hypnotically regressed into a previous incarnation. > >With everything that I have read on this subject, each subject who has >undertaken this regression *knows* that the images they are seeing or >remembering are _NOT_ produced due to a vivid imagination - they are >memories. > >So go on, you skeptics, If you don't believe a word of what is being written, >either butt out or go and do some personal research! > There;s a very dangerous misconception here. The fact that you feel as though you "know" something does not guarantee its truth. Subjects may well *know* that the images they are seeing "are memories" -- but that "knowledge" is not evidence to anyone else, and shouldn't count as evidence even to the subjects themselves if they have any idea of what their minds can do to them while they aren't looking. Your memories--even ordinary memories of everday pedestrian reailty--are not factual records of objective truth, however much they may feel like it. Scott DeLancey delancey@darkwing.uoregon.edu Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12799 alt.alien.visitors:11182 sci.skeptic:34426 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sample.eng.ohio-state.edu!purdue!news.cs.indiana.edu!arizona.edu!skyblu.ccit.arizona.edu!lippard Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Past Life regression - the proof (was GSI Day) Message-ID: <19NOV199210484098@skyblu.ccit.arizona.edu> From: lippard@skyblu.ccit.arizona.edu (James J. Lippard) Date: 19 Nov 1992 10:48 MST References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <69301@cup.portal.com> Distribution: world,local Organization: University of Arizona Nntp-Posting-Host: skyblu.ccit.arizona.edu News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41 Lines: 70 In article , mark@uk96sup.uk.haus.com (Mark Aggar) writes... >In v462etnn@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (David L Anderson) writes: > >>In article <69301@cup.portal.com>, John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes... >>>Subject: Where We Came From. >>> I have found out what I have been it more than 14 lifetimes. One was as an >>>American Indian and one was on the planet Venus. >>>John Winston > >>You offer so many points to refute. I'll start with this one: >>do you have anything other than anecdotal (ie. empirical) >>evidence to indicate that you've lived past lives? Are you >>aware of studies done by scientists into past lives and the >>lack of empirical evidence to support this kooky hypothesis? > >The only way, at this moment that you are going to prove for _yourself_ >whether or not the "past life experience" is a reality, is to go and have >yourself hypnotically regressed into a previous incarnation. > >With everything that I have read on this subject, each subject who has >undertaken this regression *knows* that the images they are seeing or >remembering are _NOT_ produced due to a vivid imagination - they are >memories. Regression subjects do not *know* that their recollections are not produced due to vivid imagination, confabulation, or cryptomnesia. Further, many subjects who believe that this is the case have had their recollections investigated and the sources have been found to be novels, stories told to them as children, and so forth (e.g., Bridey Murphy). Mike Stackpole of the Phoenix Skeptics was on a radio show with a woman who did a hypnotic regression on the air of another woman, who recalled a past life in China under some specific name I forget. Mike pointed out that what the woman had just described was an episode of the TV show "Kung Fu," at which point the hypnotic subject realized that she had indeed seen that episode. In order for the evidence to support a past life, you must be able to show (a) that the recollections are independently supported by other evidence (e.g., records showing that the person recalled did exist and did do the things that were recalled) and (b) the person doing the recalling did not have access to that information. It is better to check (a) before (b) because the latter is harder to verify and the former usually fails. It should be further noted that (a) and (b), if both verified, do not necessarily mean that the person in question had a past life, because there are other logically possible explanations (e.g., obtaining the information by psychic means). (This has recently been discussed by Ian Stevenson and Stephen Braude in the _Journal of Scientific Exploration_. It's not clear that there is any evidence which can discriminate between psi and survival of death.) >With this in mind, I am going to get myself regressed shortly and I will >give you an honest account of what happened (barring all the gory and >personal details). > >So go on, you skeptics, If you don't believe a word of what is being written, >either butt out or go and do some personal research! > >>I'll leave the ad hominem out this time, but you've opened >>holes so big one could route an interstate through them. > >...but to construct an interstate, you normally have to do some surveying >of the land first. > >Mark Aggar > >>David Anderson Jim Lippard Lippard@CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU Dept. of Philosophy Lippard@ARIZVMS.BITNET University of Arizona Tucson, AZ 85721 Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12800 alt.alien.visitors:11183 sci.skeptic:34427 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!ira.uka.de!ira.uka.de!rz.uni-karlsruhe.de!stepsun.uni-kl.de!sun.rhrk.uni-kl.de!efes.physik.uni-kl.de!kring From: kring@efes.physik.uni-kl.de (Thomas Kettenring) Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: <1992Nov19.170547.15348@rhrk.uni-kl.de> Sender: news@rhrk.uni-kl.de Organization: FB Physik, Universitaet Kaiserslautern, Germany References: <1992Nov16.192115.21473@digi.lonestar.org> <1992Nov18.175221.17658@rosevax.rosemount.com> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 17:05:47 GMT Lines: 11 In article <1992Nov18.175221.17658@rosevax.rosemount.com>, grante@aquarius.rosemount.com (Grant Edwards) writes: >Sorry, there have been plenty of double-blind tests whose protocols were >approved by astrologers in advance. The results were ALL negative. Could you please give references, if possible? I think this belongs in the FAQ... -- thomas kettenring, 3 dan, kaiserslautern, germany ...and then the dragon ate the princess and the knight, and he lived happily ever after. -- Grandma Addams telling Wednesday a story (paraphrased) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!usenet.coe.montana.edu!news.u.washington.edu!ns1.nodak.edu!warp6.cs.misu.NoDak.edu!skar From: skar@warp6.cs.misu.NoDak.edu (Keith M. Skar) Subject: Info Needed Part 2 Sender: usenet@ns1.nodak.edu (News login) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 18:18:19 GMT Nntp-Posting-Host: warp6.cs.misu.nodak.edu Organization: Minot State University -- Minot, ND. Lines: 9 I'm still looking for a FAQ for this group, I havent been able to find one and I believe that there is one floating out there somewhere. So could somebody please either send me a copy (if they have it handy) or show me a ftp site where I might be able to find it. How often is it posted. Thanks Keith Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!sgiblab!sgigate!olivea!decwrl!pa.dec.com!nntpd2.cxo.dec.com!nntpd.lkg.dec.com!ryn.mro4.dec.com!est.enet.dec.com!randolph From: randolph@est.enet.dec.com (Tom Randolph) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: The Phobos II Incident Message-ID: <1992Nov18.195743.10689@ryn.mro4.dec.com> Date: 18 Nov 92 22:48:12 GMT References: Sender: news@ryn.mro4.dec.com (USENET News System) Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation Lines: 26 In article , davidj@wrs.com (David Jones) writes... >Bzzzt! Wrong. There seems to be ample information to conclude that, indeed, >not only are there ancient ET cities on Mars, but underground cities as well >and, according to a U.S Army General (retired), that I was with, he said that >there is clear evidence of mechanical devices on the surface of Mars, and >that they are moving. Tell me, how many pictures did Viking take? How many >have been released to the the public (we paid for them didn't we?). Again, >the real issue is a government that lies to it's people. If they would only >tell the Truth... > David W. Jones Oh, please. Been reading Hoagland, eh? Gawd, it just grows and grows. Last I saw, he and someone else had formulated a unified field theory from the two Viking photos of the Cydonia region. There seems to be no limit on the amount of new scientific breakthroughs we can get out of those two grainy photos. So where's this clear evidence? And what does a US Army general know about Mars, anyway? Why not go over to sci.astro and ask the people at JPL who ran the Viking missions? How many pictures: thousands. How many released: all of them. They're available on CD ROMs. Get them and look for yourself. But of course, this must be another government lie... -Tom R. randolph@est.enet.dec.com Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!sgiblab!sgigate!olivea!decwrl!pa.dec.com!nntpd2.cxo.dec.com!nntpd.lkg.dec.com!ryn.mro4.dec.com!est.enet.dec.com!randolph From: randolph@est.enet.dec.com (Tom Randolph) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: A letter to Clinton/Gore Message-ID: <1992Nov18.201418.11183@ryn.mro4.dec.com> Date: 18 Nov 92 23:03:42 GMT References: <1992Nov18.074528.14279@netcom.com> Sender: news@ryn.mro4.dec.com (USENET News System) Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation Lines: 31 In article <1992Nov18.074528.14279@netcom.com>, jeffp@netcom.com (Jeff) writes... >Below is a letter I have written to President elect, and Vice President >Clinton/Gore regarding UFO secrecy. I would appreciate any constructive >comments... > >The reason I am writing to you is to inform you that as a regular >member of UFO discussion groups on USENET and other electronic >media, there is growing awareness that the US government has >systematically hidden the truth of regular UFO radar sightings at >military installations, UFO crashes and recoveries, and possibly >even extraterrestrial (ET) visitation, communication, and >agreements made with races from beyond our planet. Well, to start off in a somewhat accusational tone, based on information that's ambiguous at best, is probably a bad idea. The name "USENET" probably means nothing to an average politician. >I will not define or argue these charges, since they are well >documented in books such as Timothy Good's "Above Top Secret", >Michael Lindemann's "UFO's; Six Viewpoints" and William Hamilton's >"Cosmic Top Secret" as well as dozens of other literary works of a >similar nature. Again, well documented or not, these charges are not well known outside of the UFO community, and to thus quote them like gospel, to be quite honest, makes you sound like a looney to most people. This is meant to be constructive - you have to keep in mind that UFOs are a fringe subject, and Joe Sixpack would get a good laugh out of a.a.v and the "flying saucer freaks"... -Tom R. randolph@est.enet.dec.com Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!olivea!bu.edu!taco!garfield.catt.ncsu.edu!thumper From: thumper@garfield.catt.ncsu.edu (Chris Mojica) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Aliens. Part1,2,3 I posted them Message-ID: Date: 19 Nov 92 18:44:50 GMT Sender: news@ncsu.edu (USENET News System) Distribution: alt Organization: North Carolina State University Lines: 8 Well I posted the articles but I d/l them from a local bbs. -Chris ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ | Email: thumper@garfield.catt.ncsu.edu | Computer and Technologies Theme Prg| | pcmojica@eos.ncsu.edu | North Carolina State University | ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!batcomputer!munnari.oz.au!metro!basser.cs.su.oz.au!swift!peg!golight From: golight@peg.pegasus.oz.au Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Date: 19 Nov 92 21:11 EST Subject: Re: A letter to Clinton/Gore Sender: Notesfile to Usenet Gateway Message-ID: <422800034@peg.pegasus.oz.au> References: <1992Nov18.074528.14279@netcom.co> Nf-ID: #R:1992Nov18.074528.14279@netcom.co:16538288:peg:422800034:000:367 Nf-From: peg.pegasus.oz.au!golight Nov 19 21:11:00 1992 Lines: 14 G'day Rhys.... Instead of your IMHO's why don't you get off your dorkus & write a personal ltr to the Pressie yo self? As for Jefferies post...good on'm....in addition we've got plenty of secret government to get to ourselves....so let's get to work. If half the population of the planet would stand-up and get on with it...the rest would follow! Regards, Photon Organization: Sophomore, Math/Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cis.ohio-state.edu!news.sei.cmu.edu!fs7.ece.cmu.edu!crabapple.srv.cs.cmu.edu!andrew.cmu.edu!aw2s+ Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Message-ID: Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 14:49:20 -0500 From: Andrew Todd Weinstein Subject: Clari news bulletin Lines: 11 I got this newsclip from yesterday on clari.news.headlines [ The F-B-I is looking into allegations the national security was put at grave risk because of lax security at a NASA research center in Mountain View, California. An internal review suggests the facility was left open to spies.] Does this have anything to do with ufo info and the govt. coverup of it, or does this involve something else, any opinions?? Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12803 alt.alien.visitors:11190 sci.skeptic:34446 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!sun-barr!olivea!uunet!unislc!erc From: erc@unislc.uucp (Ed Carp) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Past Life regression - the proof (was GSI Day) Message-ID: <1992Nov20.012457.15976@unislc.uucp> Date: 20 Nov 92 01:24:57 GMT References: <1ef1ghINNhgv@gap.caltech.edu> Organization: Unisys Corporation SLC Lines: 19 X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6] [sarcastic skeptic post deleted to save electricity] Have you ever done any *real* research, or are you just talking through your hat? Ever read J. B. Rhine's studies on the Bridey Murphy case? Ever read Ian Stevenson's stuff? If you haven't done any real research into the field, I respectfully submit that your opinion is nothing more than that - opinion, and a misinformed one, at that. -- Ed Carp erc@apple.com, erc@saturn.upl.com 801/538-0177 "There is nothing to seek and nothing to find. You're already enlightened, and all the words in the world won't give you what you already have. The wise seeker, therefore, is concerned with one thing only: to become aware of what he already is, of the True Self within." -- Zen maxim -- Ed Carp erc@apple.com, erc@saturn.upl.com 801/538-0177 "There is nothing to seek and nothing to find. You're already enlightened, and all the words in the world won't give you what you already have. The wise Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12804 alt.alien.visitors:11191 sci.skeptic:34447 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!sun-barr!olivea!uunet!unislc!erc From: erc@unislc.uucp (Ed Carp) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Past Life regression - the proof (was GSI Day) Message-ID: <1992Nov20.012854.16274@unislc.uucp> Date: 20 Nov 92 01:28:54 GMT References: <1egiutINNgkq@pith.uoregon.edu> Organization: Unisys Corporation SLC Lines: 23 X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6] Scott C DeLancey (delancey@darkwing.uoregon.edu) wrote: : their minds can do to them while they aren't looking. Your memories--even : ordinary memories of everday pedestrian reailty--are : not factual records of objective truth, however much they may feel like : it. Unless backed up by a sizeable body of evidence. If I say that I have been to location X, and seen Y, and ten people also go to location X and agree that they see Y, I'd think that's pretty convincing evidence that what we have here is a factual record. -- Ed Carp erc@apple.com, erc@saturn.upl.com 801/538-0177 "There is nothing to seek and nothing to find. You're already enlightened, and all the words in the world won't give you what you already have. The wise seeker, therefore, is concerned with one thing only: to become aware of what he already is, of the True Self within." -- Zen maxim -- Ed Carp erc@apple.com, erc@saturn.upl.com 801/538-0177 "There is nothing to seek and nothing to find. You're already enlightened, and all the words in the world won't give you what you already have. The wise Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12805 alt.alien.visitors:11192 sci.skeptic:34448 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!sun-barr!olivea!uunet!unislc!erc From: erc@unislc.uucp (Ed Carp) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Past Life regression - the proof (was GSI Day) Message-ID: <1992Nov20.013330.16774@unislc.uucp> Date: 20 Nov 92 01:33:30 GMT References: <19NOV199210484098@skyblu.ccit.arizona.edu> Distribution: world,local Organization: Unisys Corporation SLC Lines: 54 X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6] James J. Lippard (lippard@skyblu.ccit.arizona.edu) wrote: : Regression subjects do not *know* that their recollections are not : produced due to vivid imagination, confabulation, or cryptomnesia. : Further, many subjects who believe that this is the case have had their : recollections investigated and the sources have been found to be novels, : stories told to them as children, and so forth (e.g., Bridey Murphy). Bridey Murphy was *not* out of a novel or a story told to them when they were a child. That hypothesis was pure speculation. : Mike Stackpole of the Phoenix Skeptics was on a radio show with a : woman who did a hypnotic regression on the air of another woman, who : recalled a past life in China under some specific name I forget. : Mike pointed out that what the woman had just described was an episode : of the TV show "Kung Fu," at which point the hypnotic subject realized : that she had indeed seen that episode. So? What does that prove? That reincarnation and past lives research is just so much bullshit? I think not. : In order for the evidence to support a past life, you must be able to : show (a) that the recollections are independently supported by other : evidence (e.g., records showing that the person recalled did exist and : did do the things that were recalled) and (b) the person doing the recalling : did not have access to that information. It is better to check (a) before : (b) because the latter is harder to verify and the former usually fails. What is "usually"? Dick Sutphen has done quite a bit of evidence-gathering along these lines, and has verified quite a bit of what he has been told by people he has regressed. : It should be further noted that (a) and (b), if both verified, do not : necessarily mean that the person in question had a past life, because : there are other logically possible explanations (e.g., obtaining the : information by psychic means). (This has recently been discussed by : Ian Stevenson and Stephen Braude in the _Journal of Scientific Exploration_. : It's not clear that there is any evidence which can discriminate between : psi and survival of death.) Mixed up in that is the postulate that there *is* no such thing as time. If this is true, then "past lives" communication and psi are one and the same. -- Ed Carp erc@apple.com, erc@saturn.upl.com 801/538-0177 "There is nothing to seek and nothing to find. You're already enlightened, and all the words in the world won't give you what you already have. The wise seeker, therefore, is concerned with one thing only: to become aware of what he already is, of the True Self within." -- Zen maxim -- Ed Carp erc@apple.com, erc@saturn.upl.com 801/538-0177 "There is nothing to seek and nothing to find. You're already enlightened, and all the words in the world won't give you what you already have. The wise Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12806 alt.alien.visitors:11193 sci.skeptic:34449 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!gumby!yale!cs.yale.edu!rtnmr.chem.yale.edu!rescorla From: rescorla@rtnmr.chem.yale.edu (Eric Rescorla) Subject: Re: Past Life regression - the proof (was GSI Day) Message-ID: <1992Nov20.015236.3937@cs.yale.edu> Sender: news@cs.yale.edu (Usenet News) Nntp-Posting-Host: rtnmr.chem.yale.edu Organization: Rescorla for himself. References: <1egiutINNgkq@pith.uoregon.edu> <1992Nov20.012854.16274@unislc.uucp> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 01:52:36 GMT Lines: 20 In article <1992Nov20.012854.16274@unislc.uucp> erc@unislc.uucp (Ed Carp) writes: >Scott C DeLancey (delancey@darkwing.uoregon.edu) wrote: >: their minds can do to them while they aren't looking. Your memories--even >: ordinary memories of everday pedestrian reailty--are >: not factual records of objective truth, however much they may feel like >: it. >Unless backed up by a sizeable body of evidence. If I say that I have been >to location X, and seen Y, and ten people also go to location X and agree >that they see Y, I'd think that's pretty convincing evidence that what we >have here is a factual record. Perhaps, but are we talking about that case or the one where ten people go to locations x[0]-x[9] and see y[0]-y[9]? -Ekr -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Eric Rescorla, DoD#431 (Nighthawk S) rescorla@rtnmr.chem.yale.edu Former chemist now CM400 mechanic ekr@eitech.com(preferred) "Meet the new boss, same as the old boss." Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12807 alt.alien.visitors:11194 sci.skeptic:34452 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: 1880s Encounter. Message-ID: <69864@cup.portal.com> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 92 17:56:17 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> Lines: 17 Subject: 1800s Encounter: One time I was calling into the telephone talk show called The Herb Jepko Show and I told Herb that I was going to play a little trick on him so he said, "Go ahead, be my guest". I told him the following story; Once upon a time a person saw a light come down out of the sky and some people got out of a vehicle and come over and talked to him. What Herb, do you think that was. Herb answered that it sounded like any another story of a peson coming in contact with the beings from a UFO. I then told him the rest of the story and that is the beings had shining apparel and showed him some golden tables that had writing on them. Herb then said, "Oh but that was the angels of the Lord coming down and dealing with Joseph Smith". I then agreed with him and referred him to a small book by Joseph Smith that told of his experience. I've forgotten the name of the book but it had a name like Pearl of Great Price or Golden Jewels. Maybe some of you can remind me what the name of the book is. Herb Jepko's Show was broadcast from Salt Lake City. Utah. John Winston. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12808 alt.alien.visitors:11195 sci.skeptic:34453 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!wupost!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: <69865@cup.portal.com> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 92 18:11:44 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> Lines: 2 Dear People: I hope you people don't blow a fuse. Take it easy. John Winston. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12809 alt.alien.visitors:11196 sci.skeptic:34461 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!csus.edu!netcom.com!payner From: payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne) Subject: Re: Past Life regression - the proof (was GSI Day) Message-ID: <1992Nov20.033335.14360@netcom.com> Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) References: <1egiutINNgkq@pith.uoregon.edu> <1992Nov20.012854.16274@unislc.uucp> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 03:33:35 GMT Lines: 34 In article <1992Nov20.012854.16274@unislc.uucp> erc@unislc.uucp (Ed Carp) writes: >Scott C DeLancey (delancey@darkwing.uoregon.edu) wrote: > >: their minds can do to them while they aren't looking. Your memories--even >: ordinary memories of everday pedestrian reailty--are >: not factual records of objective truth, however much they may feel like >: it. > >Unless backed up by a sizeable body of evidence. If I say that I have been >to location X, and seen Y, and ten people also go to location X and agree >that they see Y, I'd think that's pretty convincing evidence that what we >have here is a factual record. Factual record, yes. A factual record of an objective truth, no. >-- >Ed Carp erc@apple.com, erc@saturn.upl.com 801/538-0177 > >"There is nothing to seek and nothing to find. You're already enlightened, and >all the words in the world won't give you what you already have. The wise >seeker, therefore, is concerned with one thing only: to become aware of what >he already is, of the True Self within." -- Zen maxim >-- >Ed Carp erc@apple.com, erc@saturn.upl.com 801/538-0177 > >"There is nothing to seek and nothing to find. You're already enlightened, and >all the words in the world won't give you what you already have. The wise Rich payner@netcom.com Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12810 alt.alien.visitors:11197 sci.skeptic:34462 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!uunet!mcsun!sunic!ugle.unit.no!alf.uib.no!alf!magnus From: magnus@bark-fddi.ii.uib.no (Magnus Alvestad) Subject: Re: 1800 Encounter. In-Reply-To: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com's message of Thu, 19 Nov 92 06:18:15 PST Message-ID: <1992Nov19.165026.25827@alf.uib.no> Sender: usenet@alf.uib.no (Bergen University Newsaccount) Reply-To: magnus@ii.uib.no Organization: UVBS -> SFK/T-DSA / SOPS - HOS / RNoN References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <69832@cup.portal.com> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 92 16:50:26 GMT Lines: 12 >>>>> On Thu, 19 Nov 92 06:18:15 PST, John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com >>>>> said: John> without out getting shot I'll be money ahead. John John> Winston. I'll try to post it in the future. Well, if you can pull it off without being flamed.. :-/ As for posting it in the future I suppose it would be trivial for you to post it in the past, with your OOBE and all that magic. -Magnus Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Mind Control of UFOs Message-ID: <69882@cup.portal.com> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 92 21:23:13 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) Distribution: world References: <1592.479.uupcb@homebase.com> Lines: 3 Yey Sir: You people listen to this man Joseph. He's telling the truth. So help me Bibo. John Winston. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12812 alt.alien.visitors:11199 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Cayce's Pyramid Message-ID: <69885@cup.portal.com> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 92 21:50:55 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) Distribution: world References: <64264@cup.portal.com> Lines: 10 Subject: Cayce's Pyramid. In the last month I have read a book called Discovering The Lost Pyramid by G. Cope Schellhorn. I don't recommend the book very highly but if you are a person who is already interested in the Edgar Cayce material then I think it would be of interest to you. It tells of a person's search for a small place that was made underground very near the Great Pyramid of Egypt that has a lot of records that contain information about Atlantis and a little bit about Lemuria. It gives the exact location of this material. I bought the book in the East West Book Store in Palo Alto, Calif. John Winston. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12813 alt.alien.visitors:11200 alt.religion.kibology:4760 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology Subject: Big Bird Message-ID: <69886@cup.portal.com> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 92 21:52:57 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) Distribution: world References: <67397@cup.portal.com> Lines: 16 Subject; Big Bird. I glad you are reading this rather than me. If I were reading it I wouldn't believe it and it happened to me. It all started when a friend of mine told me about a time when she and her teen age daughter (who is a changeling) with a few of her friends were in a very scary place on the sides of some mountain near Fremont, Calif. (Mission Peak). They were all having a good time when they started hearing something make a lot of noise. As they got close they could see that something was growling like a dinosaur and knocking the brush down with it's wings but they couldn't see anything. They said the found a large nest about 20 feet across that looked like it was made by a very large bird. They left the area. I checked with my psychic advisor and he said that reports of Big Bird had been in the newspapers lately and he didn't mean Big Bird of Sesame Street on TV. He advised me not to go in alone and not go in at dark. End Part 1. John Winston. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12814 alt.alien.visitors:11201 sci.skeptic:34466 alt.religion.kibology:4763 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic,alt.religion.kibology Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!ukma!cs.widener.edu!eff!world!kibo From: kibo@world.std.com (James "Kibo" Parry) Subject: Re: Dolphin-Aliens? Message-ID: Organization: Two rooms filled with typography, in downtown Boston References: <69712@cup.portal.com> <69833@cup.portal.com> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 06:04:16 GMT Lines: 9 In article <69833@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >Dear Spellers: I confess. You've caught me. I spelled this like thit. >I've obviously caught Kiboitis. >John Winston. Yes, but I've caught John_-_Winstonitis. It's very painful. And worse, now I have to go through and add "_-_"s all over my .signature. -- Ki_-_Bo Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12816 alt.alien.visitors:11202 sci.skeptic:34470 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!caen!uunet!pipex!bnr.co.uk!bmdhh243!bcars267!bnrgate!nott!cunews!revcan!cerianthus!uuisis!testsys!doug From: doug@testsys.isis.org (Doug Thompson) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Astral 1. Message-ID: <658249251DN5.62R@testsys.isis.org> Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 22:35:39 EST References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <69613@cup.portal.com> Reply-To: doug@uuisis.isis.org Distribution: na Organization: DistNet Technical Support Lines: 25 In article (Curtis Roelle) writes: > John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: > > >Subject: Astral Projection. > > I have had some requests to explain how astral projection is done so here > >goes; Well now that we've got this far you should be able to do, !. Send > >and receive thoughts. 2. Seal the aura (we haven't covered that one yet) and > >3. Call a flying saucer. If you haven't accomplished these things yet it > **** * ****** ****** > > Call a flying saucer as in summons, or just for a chat? > > I for one want to here more about it. Hailing a saucer for the > airport would certainly impress the boss more than just catching an > ordinary old taxi cab. Sure, we could just skip the airplane thing, > but I don't want to seem pretentious. Well, ya know, what I can't figure is that if these guys in the flying saucers are so smart, why haven't they figured out how to do e-mail yet and got linked to the internet? =Doug --- uuisis!testsys!doug Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12817 alt.alien.visitors:11203 alt.religion.kibology:4767 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!iWarp.intel.com|eff!world!kibo From: kibo@world.std.com (James "Kibo" Parry) Subject: Re: Big Bird Message-ID: Organization: Two rooms filled with typography, in downtown Boston References: <67397@cup.portal.com> <69886@cup.portal.com> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 06:06:28 GMT Lines: 11 In article <69886@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >they couldn't see anything. They said the found a large nest about 20 feet >across that looked like it was made by a very large bird. They left the area. > I checked with my psychic advisor and he said that reports of Big Bird had >been in the newspapers lately and he didn't mean Big Bird of Sesame Street >on TV. He advised me not to go in alone and not go in at dark. John, you weren't hit on the head by one of the 500-pound bird turds, were you? -- K. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12818 alt.alien.visitors:11204 alt.religion.kibology:4772 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!sun-barr!cs.utexas.edu!uwm.edu!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!psci15.polisci.umn.edu!serb From: serb@polisci.umn.edu (Scott Erb) Subject: Re: Big Bird Message-ID: Sender: news@news2.cis.umn.edu (Usenet News Administration) Nntp-Posting-Host: psci15.polisci.umn.edu Organization: Department of Political Science, University of Minnesota References: <67397@cup.portal.com> <69886@cup.portal.com> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 13:32:01 GMT Lines: 24 In article <69886@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >Subject; Big Bird. > I glad you are reading this rather than me. If I were reading it I wouldn't >believe it and it happened to me. > It all started when a friend of mine told me about a time when she and her >teen age daughter (who is a changeling) with a few of her friends were in a >very scary place on the sides of some mountain near Fremont, Calif. (Mission >Peak). They were all having a good time when they started hearing something >make a lot of noise. As they got close they could see that something was >growling like a dinosaur and knocking the brush down with it's wings but >they couldn't see anything. They said the found a large nest about 20 feet >across that looked like it was made by a very large bird. They left the area. > I checked with my psychic advisor and he said that reports of Big Bird had >been in the newspapers lately and he didn't mean Big Bird of Sesame Street >on TV. He advised me not to go in alone and not go in at dark. >End Part 1. >John Winston. I recently read that the Sesame Street Big Bird escaped, and due to contract negotiations is engaging in terror to try to bring the government to put pressure on Sesame Street, Inc. to give in to Big Bird's demands. You can go in alone at dark, despite the appearance, Big Bird is as gentle and friendly as she appears on TV. -- scott Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12819 alt.alien.visitors:11205 sci.skeptic:34479 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: <69899@cup.portal.com> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 92 06:16:33 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> Lines: 6 Dear Deep Thinkers: Here it is friday and we're still talking and have not killed one another yet, so that is a step in the right direction. Do you realize how many people have been killed in the past just because they brought up the subjects we are talking about. Free speech is a great gift. John Winston. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12820 alt.alien.visitors:11206 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Cayce's Pyramid Message-ID: <69900@cup.portal.com> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 92 06:20:59 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) Distribution: world References: <64264@cup.portal.com> <69885@cup.portal.com> Lines: 3 Dear Pyramidologists: The life of Edgar Cayce is wonderful study. There are many books written about him. My favorite is There is a River. John Winston. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12821 alt.alien.visitors:11207 alt.religion.kibology:4773 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!sun-barr!cs.utexas.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!saimiri.primate.wisc.edu!caen!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.unomaha.edu!cwis!stone From: stone@cwis.unomaha.edu (Travis Stone) Subject: Re: Big Bird Message-ID: Sender: news@news.unomaha.edu (UNO Network News Server) Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha References: <67397@cup.portal.com> <69886@cup.portal.com> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 14:12:52 GMT Lines: 7 Call the Doctor, call the Nurse; Johnny's bad, and getting worse. T.R. Stone Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12822 alt.alien.visitors:11208 alt.religion.kibology:4774 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology Subject: Re: Big Bird Message-ID: <69901@cup.portal.com> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 92 06:23:20 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) Distribution: world References: <67397@cup.portal.com> <69886@cup.portal.com> Lines: 3 Dear Bird Watchers: I hope you all have a good weekend and don't let Big Bird get you. John Winston Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12823 alt.alien.visitors:11209 sci.skeptic:34480 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!sdd.hp.com!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!Sirius.dfn.de!chx400!sparc2!news From: milsom@ntb.ch (Paul Milsom) Subject: Re: Past Life regression - the proof (was GSI Day) Message-ID: <1992Nov20.141825.18978@ntb.ch> Keywords: Reality / Truth Sender: usenet@ntb.ch (Mr. Usenet) Reply-To: milsom@ntb.ch (Paul Milsom) Organization: Neu-Technikum Buchs References: <1992Nov20.033335.14360@netcom.com> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 14:18:25 GMT Lines: 66 Truth / Past Life Regression / Reality ______________________________________ There seem to be several topics we have discussed here which can be regarded as "just a matter of faith", simply because we do not have, and in some cases never will have enough hard evidence. They will continue to be so, however much we discuss them (or insult each other), until overwhelming *new* evidence is produced. These include: - the face on Mars (I don't think the new probe's photos will be conclusive) - reincarnation and regression - the very existence of UFOs and aliens - religions and their offshoots - auras - astral projection - the Secret Government - Bigfoot - the Kennedy assassination - politics - God (He doesn't appear often in this group, but He is sometimes mentioned in email. For some obscure reason His existence has never seemed to be in question, although there is no proof whatsoever...) Peter (@stycx.hacktic.nl (Author)) asked a very pertinent question: >The question is now whether it is reasonable to suppose that this >readiness, is in fact the level to which the person is prone to >halucinations, or to which the person reached an awareness which allows >her/him to interact within a higher actuality. In other words, are people who experience something unusual entering into a state of reality which only certain people can access, or a state of fantasy which only certain people can access? And what is more, DOES IT MATTER, if we will never be able to prove it conclusively anyway? Some of us are absolutely convinced about our beliefs. For me, they happen to be the principles of A Course In Miracles. For somebody else, they will be society's acceptance of the existence of aliens, the superiority of a particular political party, or the importance of finding a cure for cancer. But how many of us would be prepared to change our mind just from a discussion (with no new facts)? I love to discuss the meaning of life with other people, but I have never changed my views, nor theirs. (Mine do vary slightly from those of Monty Python.) My motives are absolutely clear - I want to convince them that I'm right, which will also save the world. I'm sure that many people think it would change the world for the better if others accepted their ideas too. The point is, we have to accept the fact that other people think differently. If somebody doesn't believe a "fact", then we have to accept that, and not call them a moron. I don't believe everything that JohnW writes, but I admire his tenacity, his benevolence, and his humour. I am convinced that the USA does not have a secret treaty with Russia and the aliens, mainly through interviews of people involved in the Cuba crisis. But this may have been disinformation. Most of our opinions seem to be based on something we read or heard or saw on TV; very little is based on first-hand experience. We can give each other new information in this group, but we should not assume it will be accepted as fact. By the way, ACIM says ALL material is illusion! Love and blessings, Paul. Paul Milsom milsom@ntb.ch Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12824 alt.alien.visitors:11210 sci.skeptic:34481 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!torn!watserv2.uwaterloo.ca!mach1!reil0766 From: reil0766@mach1.wlu.ca (reilly derek) Subject: Re: Abort References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <69787@cup.portal.com> Message-ID: Organization: Wilfrid Laurier University Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 07:47:43 GMT Lines: 3 I knew there would be some talk of this. Abort abort isn't that extreme. A similar word that I found more interesting was cocappendage (equivalent to our slightly less Aristotlean coctail). The vision of these supralogical category mongers teetotallin about the great expanse was more than my slight experience could acceptably fathom. JERSEY:JUNE:24:1993 Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12825 alt.alien.visitors:11211 alt.religion.kibology:4776 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!news.encore.com!wizard!bcacciol From: bcacciol@wizard.Berkeley.EDU (Forklift of Pain) Subject: Re: Big Bird Reply-To: bcacciol@encore.com Organization: none Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 14:45:34 GMT Message-ID: References: <69886@cup.portal.com> <67397@cup.portal.com> Sender: news@encore.com (Usenet readnews user id) Nntp-Posting-Host: wizard.encore.com Lines: 13 In article <69886@cup.portal.com>, John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: > Subject; Big Bird. > I glad you are reading this rather than me. If I were reading it I wouldn't > believe it and it happened to me. > It all started when a friend of mine told me about a time when she and her > teen age daughter (who is a changeling) with a few of her friends were in a Um, John...do you have any friends/acquaintances who are *not* changelings, aliens, yogis, astral travelers, shamans, levitators, reincarnated refrigerator repairmen, or mystics? Wondering in Florida, F 'o P Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12826 alt.alien.visitors:11212 sci.skeptic:34484 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!wupost!gumby!destroyer!ncar!noao!arizona.edu!skyblu.ccit.arizona.edu!lippard Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Past Life regression - the proof (was GSI Day) Message-ID: <20NOV199208014661@skyblu.ccit.arizona.edu> From: lippard@skyblu.ccit.arizona.edu (James J. Lippard) Date: 20 Nov 1992 08:01 MST References: <19NOV199210484098@skyblu.ccit.arizona.edu> <1992Nov20.013330.16774@unislc.uucp> Distribution: world,local Organization: University of Arizona Nntp-Posting-Host: skyblu.ccit.arizona.edu News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41 Lines: 102 In article <1992Nov20.013330.16774@unislc.uucp>, erc@unislc.uucp (Ed Carp) writes... >James J. Lippard (lippard@skyblu.ccit.arizona.edu) wrote: > >: Regression subjects do not *know* that their recollections are not >: produced due to vivid imagination, confabulation, or cryptomnesia. >: Further, many subjects who believe that this is the case have had their >: recollections investigated and the sources have been found to be novels, >: stories told to them as children, and so forth (e.g., Bridey Murphy). > >Bridey Murphy was *not* out of a novel or a story told to them when >they were a child. That hypothesis was pure speculation. "Bridey Murphy" was allegedly the name in a past life of one Virginia Tighe, a Pueblo, Colorado housewife hypnotized by Pueblo businessman Morey Bernstein, who wrote the book _The Search for Bridey Murphy_. The story was also told by William J. Barker in the Denver _Post_ in a three-part serial titled "The Strange Search for Bridey Murphy." Tighe claimed that as Bridey Murphy, she lived in Cork, Ireland. Reporters sent there by the Chicago Daily News and the Denver Post were unable to verify the existence of Bridey Murphy. On the other hand, the Chicago American sent reporters to Virginia's old home town, Chicago. They found Mrs. Anthony Corkell, who had known Virginia as a teenager. Mrs. Corkell's (note the similarity to "Cork") maiden name? Bridie Murphy. Further investigation showed that many events Virginia described in the life of Bridey Murphy were events from her *own* life. At the age of 6 or 7 she was whipped for scratching fresh paint off her metal bed, which was a recollection of "Bridey Murphy." Her sister once suffered a bad fall down a staircase, which is what "Bridey Murphy" said caused her own death. Her uncle used to dance jigs for pennies in the Chicago streets. In high school, Virginia did some Irish monologs in drama class with an accomplished brogue. And many more parallels. See chapter 26 of Martin Gardner's _Fads and Fallacies in the Name of Science_ for more. >: Mike Stackpole of the Phoenix Skeptics was on a radio show with a >: woman who did a hypnotic regression on the air of another woman, who >: recalled a past life in China under some specific name I forget. >: Mike pointed out that what the woman had just described was an episode >: of the TV show "Kung Fu," at which point the hypnotic subject realized >: that she had indeed seen that episode. > >So? What does that prove? That reincarnation and past lives research >is just so much bullshit? I think not. No. It demonstrates that cryptomnesia is something that does occur in hypnotic regression and needs to be taken into consideration. > >: In order for the evidence to support a past life, you must be able to >: show (a) that the recollections are independently supported by other >: evidence (e.g., records showing that the person recalled did exist and >: did do the things that were recalled) and (b) the person doing the recalling >: did not have access to that information. It is better to check (a) before >: (b) because the latter is harder to verify and the former usually fails. > >What is "usually"? Dick Sutphen has done quite a bit of evidence-gathering >along these lines, and has verified quite a bit of what he has been told by >people he has regressed. What is "quite a bit"? By "usually," I mean that I am aware of no really good cases for reincarnation. For some reason, Dick Sutphen, when invited to appear on KFYI radio in Phoenix to discuss reincarnation, backed out when he learned that a skeptic (me) would also been on the show. The program was cancelled. >: It should be further noted that (a) and (b), if both verified, do not >: necessarily mean that the person in question had a past life, because >: there are other logically possible explanations (e.g., obtaining the >: information by psychic means). (This has recently been discussed by >: Ian Stevenson and Stephen Braude in the _Journal of Scientific Exploration_. >: It's not clear that there is any evidence which can discriminate between >: psi and survival of death.) > >Mixed up in that is the postulate that there *is* no such thing as time. If >this is true, then "past lives" communication and psi are one and the same. I don't think you can make sense out of the postulate that "there is no such thing as time." Some events happen at some times, some at other times, no matter what particular metaphysical view of time you happen to hold. I do think that theories of personal identity are affected by theories of time, but I don't see how any theory of time gives the result that there is no difference between having lived a past life or just psychically picking up information about a past life. Care to elaborate on this? By the way, if all times exist, then one should be able to do a "future life progression" as easily as a "past life regression," and thereby make accurate predictions about the future. But the only "future life progression" I am aware of always goes way into the distant future, so far that there is no danger of any predictions being proved wrong in the lifetimes of the promoters of these claims. I recommend Paul Edwards' four-part series on "The Case Against Reincarnation" in _Free Inquiry_ magazine, in which he addresses Stevenson's cases in the fourth part. (Fall 1986, Winter 86/87, Spring 87, Summer 87) Edwards also now has a book out on the subject. Jim Lippard Lippard@CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU Dept. of Philosophy Lippard@ARIZVMS.BITNET University of Arizona Tucson, AZ 85721 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!news.funet.fi!funic!nntp.hut.fi!nntp!mknip From: mknip@niksula.hut.fi (Mats Anders Knip) Subject: Re: A letter to Clinton/Gore In-Reply-To: rhys@cs.uq.oz.au's message of 18 Nov 92 22:14:43 GMT Message-ID: Sender: usenet@nntp.hut.fi (Usenet pseudouser id) Nntp-Posting-Host: wolverine.cs.hut.fi Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland References: <1992Nov18.074528.14279@netcom.com> <11102@uqcspe.cs.uq.oz.au> Date: 20 Nov 92 17:00:28 Lines: 57 >>Below is a letter I have written to President elect, and Vice President >>Clinton/Gore regarding UFO secrecy. I would appreciate any constructive >>comments... >In outline, not bad, but it is still a little too "lunatic sounding". If I >was Clinton/Gore's secretary sorting through the morning mail, I'd put this >one into the "Mad Conspiracy Theorist" bin. This bin probably gets lots of >mail, so you want to make yours different from the others so that it will be >given a second look. I agree with about everything Rhys said. Remember that it's the president you're talking to here - if you want anybody to take your letter seriously, don't "assume" that UFOs exit. Don't say that "there is a growing awareness of this and that and that the government has been hiding the truth about ET-contacts and UFO-landings". Keep rational. We don't *know* this, and what we really want is to find out *if* there is any truth behind all the rumors. If you are absolutely sure about the existance of UFOs - fine, but don't tell the president about it. It doesn't take much to put your letter in the "Mad Conspiracy Bin", so if you want the president to read your letter, don't say what you think, but rephrase it. Say that "the US-citizens has got the right to know whether there is any truth behind the rumors or not" rather than "we know that the government has been hiding the truth". There is a fine line you've got to walk on, and it's very easily crossed. >>The American people have a right to know the truth regarding their... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >>people" has an obligation to US citizens to make the truth known, ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ He he. Now *that* is American. You don't really believe that, do you. I mean, *really* ? Clinton may say so in his campain, because he knows that's what you all want to hear, but really - we all know it's baloney. If 10000 demonstrants say "the public has got the right to this and that" it may have some effect, but when one single person says the same I don't really think he cares. He's a media-monster. >>government. I call upon you to rid us of the Secret Government, to >>tear-down the wall of deciet that has separated te people from the >>truth for so many decades, and make the US a truly >>democratic society, and the world, a better place to live. >>We will be watching, waiting, and hoping, that you will live up to >>the greatness that is within you, and protect liberty and >>happiness for us all. And so we live happily ever thereafter. You forgot the smiley :^) I am not an American, and hence many americans may not agree with me on what I say, (americans tend to make a bigger deal of the "public's rights" than others) but If I wrote a letter to the president of my country I most certainly wouldn't phrase things the way you do. But hey - I'm not American so what do I know? This is MHO anyway. -- *=--------------------------------------------------------------------------=* * E-Mail: mknip@niksula.cs.hut.fi * * Helsinki University of Technology / department of Computer Science * *=--------------------------------------------------------------------------=* Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12828 alt.alien.visitors:11214 sci.skeptic:34491 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!haven.umd.edu!darwin.sura.net!wupost!usc!rpi!usenet.coe.montana.edu!news.uoregon.edu!darkwing.uoregon.edu!delancey From: delancey@darkwing.uoregon.edu (Scott C DeLancey) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Past Life regression - the proof (was GSI Day) Date: 20 Nov 1992 16:30:06 GMT Organization: University of Oregon Network Services Lines: 28 Message-ID: <1ej3qeINNftu@pith.uoregon.edu> References: <1egiutINNgkq@pith.uoregon.edu> <1992Nov20.012854.16274@unislc.uucp> NNTP-Posting-Host: darkwing.uoregon.edu In article <1992Nov20.012854.16274@unislc.uucp> erc@unislc.uucp (Ed Carp) writes: >Scott C DeLancey (delancey@darkwing.uoregon.edu) wrote: > >: their minds can do to them while they aren't looking. Your memories--even >: ordinary memories of everday pedestrian reailty--are >: not factual records of objective truth, however much they may feel like >: it. > >Unless backed up by a sizeable body of evidence. If I say that I have been >to location X, and seen Y, and ten people also go to location X and agree >that they see Y, I'd think that's pretty convincing evidence that what we >have here is a factual record. But--unless there's "evidence" around that I've missed--that isn't an accurate picture of the results of past life regressions. More like you "remember" having been to M and seen X, someone else feels they've been to N and seen Y, a third has been to O and seen Z. Different individuals' regressed memories are not memories of the same thing, only memories of the same kind, and therefore don't confirm one another. Different schizophrenics often have very similar sorts of delusional systems, but the similarities don't do anything to confirm the validity of their mental experience. Scott DeLancey i C Scott DeLancey Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!darwin.sura.net!paladin.american.edu!news.univie.ac.at!alijku11!k3032e2 Organization: Johannes Kepler University Linz - Computing Center Date: Friday, 20 Nov 1992 17:57:08 CET From: Mutter Christoph Johannes Message-ID: <92325.175708K3032E2@ALIJKU11.BITNET> Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Test Lines: 1 This is only a test? Nevermind (NIRVANA). Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12829 alt.alien.visitors:11216 sci.skeptic:34497 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!caen!nic.umass.edu!umassd.edu!SMUCS1.UMASSD.EDU!SODONNELL From: sodonnell@UMASSD.EDU Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: Sender: usenet@umassd.edu (USENET News System) Reply-To: sodonnell@UMASSD.EDU Organization: UMASS DARTMOUTH, NO. DARTMOUTH, MA. References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu>,<69899@cup.portal.com> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 17:00:25 GMT Lines: 14 In article <69899@cup.portal.com>, John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >Free speech is a great gift. >John Winston. John, could you please use your free speech in ski.skeptic and alien visitors. I would prefer to hear about peoples thoughts on GOD. Thats why I subscribe to this group and not alt.aliens. Just a little suggestion. People get mad at you (myself included) and I don't like that. There's enough of that in the world already. p.s. I do think you're funny sometimes (most times) and I promise to read you in alt.aliens. p.s.s. but after all its only IMHO..............thanks Sandy Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12830 alt.alien.visitors:11217 alt.religion.kibology:4782 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!s5!is1.is.morgan.com!is.morgan.com!mpiet From: mpiet@is.morgan.com (Mark Pietrasanta) Subject: Re: Big Bird Message-ID: <1992Nov20.104454@is.morgan.com> Sender: news@is.morgan.com Nntp-Posting-Host: is11 Organization: Morgan Stanley - IS References: <67397@cup.portal.com> <69886@cup.portal.com> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 15:44:54 GMT Lines: 33 In article , serb@polisci.umn.edu (Scott Erb) writes: |> In article <69886@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: |> |> >Subject; Big Bird. [very odd story about a strange family and a money sucking psychic] |> >John Winston. |> |> I recently read that the Sesame Street Big Bird escaped, and due to |> contract negotiations is engaging in terror to try to bring the government |> to put pressure on Sesame Street, Inc. to give in to Big Bird's demands. |> You can go in alone at dark, despite the appearance, Big Bird is as gentle |> and friendly as she appears on TV. -- scott ^^^ Has anyone actually _seen_ something to indicate the gender of Big Bird? I seem to vaguely remember Big Bird falling in love with someone on the show (another bird or human), but I don't remember. Has BB ever laid an egg? What is the BB courting ritual? Mark Pietrasanta - mpiet@is.morgan.com * * * * * * * * * "Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds." - Albert Einstein ---------------------------------------------------------------- Disclaimer: These responses are my own and in no way reflect the views of my employer. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12831 alt.alien.visitors:11218 sci.skeptic:34502 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!think.com!ames!purdue!mentor.cc.purdue.edu!noose.ecn.purdue.edu!samsung!balrog!ctron.com From: smith@ctron.com (Lawrence C Smith) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Past Life regression - the proof (was GSI Day) Message-ID: <5984@balrog.ctron.com> Date: 20 Nov 92 17:53:55 GMT References: <19NOV199210484098@skyblu.ccit.arizona.edu> <1992Nov20.013330.16774@unislc.uucp> <20NOV199208014661@skyblu.ccit.arizona.edu> Sender: usenet@balrog.ctron.com Reply-To: smith@ctron.com Followup-To: talk.religion.newage Distribution: world,local Organization: Cabletron Systems, Inc. Lines: 49 Nntp-Posting-Host: glinda In article <20NOV199208014661@skyblu.ccit.arizona.edu>, lippard@skyblu.ccit.arizona.edu (James J. Lippard) writes: >>: Mike Stackpole of the Phoenix Skeptics was on a radio show with a >>: woman who did a hypnotic regression on the air of another woman, who >>: recalled a past life in China under some specific name I forget. >>: Mike pointed out that what the woman had just described was an episode >>: of the TV show "Kung Fu," at which point the hypnotic subject realized >>: that she had indeed seen that episode. >>So? What does that prove? That reincarnation and past lives research >>is just so much bullshit? I think not. >No. It demonstrates that cryptomnesia is something that does occur >in hypnotic regression and needs to be taken into consideration. >cough< >cough< I'd say it proves that "reincarnation and past lives research is just so much bullshit". No one, in all of history, has come forth with a provable, demonstrable case of reincarnation, with associated evidence. It has been claimed so often, and then rebutted so thoroughly, as in the paragraph above, that most reasonable people would, I think, feel quite comfortable in claiming that it was, in fact, so much bullshit. There is probably more doubt about gravity than reincarnation. But like most bastions of pseudo-science, the believers will always believe, and will continue to search out new examples that will "confirm" their idea. In the process, they will subject themselves and their loved ones to many gallons of snake oil and more hokum than you can shake a stick at, but it _does_ all serve a purpose. If they ever _do_ come up with irrefutable evidence, then we'll have to re-examine some real science. But I feel pretty comfortable that science shows that life is in the "hardware", as it were. No one has suggested or demonstrated any sort of mechanism for transmission of life experience from one dead body to another without dropping into the muzzy-headed world of religion. Which is, I guess, as it should be, for clearly anyone who continues to believe in reincarnation in the face of all the evidence to the contrary _must_ be taking it as an article of religious faith, whether they call it that or not. Sometimes Occam's razor is the cruelest cut of all... Larry Smith (smith@ctron.com) No, I don't speak for Cabletron. Need you ask? - Liberty is not the freedom to do whatever we want, it is the freedom to do whatever we are able. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!hela.iti.org!cs.widener.edu!dsinc!netnews.upenn.edu!grip.cis.upenn.edu!jmv From: jmv@grip.cis.upenn.edu (Jean-Marc Vezien) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Mind Control of UFOs Message-ID: <98533@netnews.upenn.edu> Date: 20 Nov 92 16:56:37 GMT References: <1592.479.uupcb@homebase.com> <69882@cup.portal.com> Sender: news@netnews.upenn.edu Organization: GRASP Lab Lines: 15 Nntp-Posting-Host: grip.cis.upenn.edu In article <69882@cup.portal.com>, John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: > Yey Sir: You people listen to this man Joseph. He's telling the truth. > So help me Bibo. > John Winston. Bibo ? I thought it was Kibo the Bobbit. BTW, anybody seen the simpsons yesterday ? They told the truth about BigFoot ;) JM. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!europa.asd.contel.com!darwin.sura.net!mlb.semi.harris.com!rtfm.mlb.fl.us!joshua From: joshua@rtfm.mlb.fl.us (Joshua Geller) Subject: Re: The Phobos II Incident Message-ID: <1992Nov20.174353.16030@rtfm.mlb.fl.us> Organization: Institute for the Study of Ancient Science References: <1992Nov18.195743.10689@ryn.mro4.dec.com> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 17:43:53 GMT Lines: 10 has richard hoagland actually been making these more-than-usually bizarre claims? the only thing of his that I have read is 'monuments of mars' which is (taken all in all) fairly restrained. does anyone know his compu$erve address? I have heard rumors and second hand reports attributing all sorts of wierdness and conspiracy theories to him. it might be worth while to ask him about all of this stuff. josh Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12833 alt.alien.visitors:11221 sci.skeptic:34506 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!sun-barr!ames!data.nas.nasa.gov!mustang.mst6.lanl.gov!nntp-server.caltech.edu!SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU!CARL From: carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU (Carl J Lydick) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Past Life regression - the proof (was GSI Day) Date: 20 Nov 1992 19:02:22 GMT Organization: HST Wide Field/Planetary Camera Lines: 23 Distribution: world Message-ID: <1ejcnuINNh44@gap.caltech.edu> References: <1egiutINNgkq@pith.uoregon.edu>,<1992Nov20.012854.16274@unislc.uucp> Reply-To: carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU NNTP-Posting-Host: sol1.gps.caltech.edu In article <1992Nov20.012854.16274@unislc.uucp>, erc@unislc.uucp (Ed Carp) writes: =Scott C DeLancey (delancey@darkwing.uoregon.edu) wrote: = =: their minds can do to them while they aren't looking. Your memories--even =: ordinary memories of everday pedestrian reailty--are =: not factual records of objective truth, however much they may feel like =: it. = =Unless backed up by a sizeable body of evidence. If I say that I have been =to location X, and seen Y, and ten people also go to location X and agree =that they see Y, I'd think that's pretty convincing evidence that what we =have here is a factual record. Suppose you're then presented with evidence that you, personally have never been to location X? But you've still got the memory?e -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Carl J Lydick | INTERnet: CARL@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU | NSI/HEPnet: SOL1::CARL Disclaimer: Hey, I understand VAXen and VMS. That's what I get paid for. My understanding of astronomy is purely at the amateur level (or below). So unless what I'm saying is directly related to VAX/VMS, don't hold me or my organization responsible for it. If it IS related to VAX/VMS, you can try to hold me responsible for it, but my organization had nothing to do with it. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12834 alt.alien.visitors:11222 sci.skeptic:34507 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!sun-barr!ames!data.nas.nasa.gov!mustang.mst6.lanl.gov!nntp-server.caltech.edu!SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU!CARL From: carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU (Carl J Lydick) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Past Life regression - the proof (was GSI Day) Date: 20 Nov 1992 19:07:27 GMT Organization: HST Wide Field/Planetary Camera Lines: 45 Distribution: world Message-ID: <1ejd1fINNh44@gap.caltech.edu> References: <19NOV199210484098@skyblu.ccit.arizona.edu>,<1992Nov20.013330.16774@unislc.uucp> Reply-To: carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU NNTP-Posting-Host: sol1.gps.caltech.edu In article <1992Nov20.013330.16774@unislc.uucp>, erc@unislc.uucp (Ed Carp) writes: =: Mike Stackpole of the Phoenix Skeptics was on a radio show with a =: woman who did a hypnotic regression on the air of another woman, who =: recalled a past life in China under some specific name I forget. =: Mike pointed out that what the woman had just described was an episode =: of the TV show "Kung Fu," at which point the hypnotic subject realized =: that she had indeed seen that episode. = =So? What does that prove? That reincarnation and past lives research =is just so much bullshit? I think not. It demonstrates, as I pointed out in a previous post, that memories that are found under hypnosis are simply not to be trusted. You can't use such memories themselves as evidence of past lives. Someone else has posted suggestions for how you can REALLY test whether the regression was valid. The mere fact that the memories feel real is useless. The topic is covered in the sci.skeptic FAQ. =: In order for the evidence to support a past life, you must be able to =: show (a) that the recollections are independently supported by other =: evidence (e.g., records showing that the person recalled did exist and =: did do the things that were recalled) and (b) the person doing the recalling =: did not have access to that information. It is better to check (a) before =: (b) because the latter is harder to verify and the former usually fails. = =What is "usually"? Dick Sutphen has done quite a bit of evidence-gathering =along these lines, and has verified quite a bit of what he has been told by =people he has regressed. Fine. But there's no point in checking to see whether someone might have had access to the information via conventional means until you verify that the information is accurate, now is there? Or don't new-age bliss-ninnys care about things like that? That's the first step. Now, did he bother to take the second step and make sure that the subject didn't have some way of knowing the information without having lived past lives? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Carl J Lydick | INTERnet: CARL@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU | NSI/HEPnet: SOL1::CARL Disclaimer: Hey, I understand VAXen and VMS. That's what I get paid for. My understanding of astronomy is purely at the amateur level (or below). So unless what I'm saying is directly related to VAX/VMS, don't hold me or my organization responsible for it. If it IS related to VAX/VMS, you can try to hold me responsible for it, but my organization had nothing to do with it. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12835 alt.alien.visitors:11223 sci.skeptic:34508 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!sun-barr!ames!data.nas.nasa.gov!mustang.mst6.lanl.gov!nntp-server.caltech.edu!SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU!CARL From: carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU (Carl J Lydick) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Past Life regression - the proof (was GSI Day) Date: 20 Nov 1992 19:12:58 GMT Organization: HST Wide Field/Planetary Camera Lines: 37 Distribution: world Message-ID: <1ejdbqINNh44@gap.caltech.edu> References: <1992Nov20.033335.14360@netcom.com>,<1992Nov20.141825.18978@ntb.ch> Reply-To: carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU NNTP-Posting-Host: sol1.gps.caltech.edu In article <1992Nov20.141825.18978@ntb.ch>, milsom@ntb.ch (Paul Milsom) writes: =There seem to be several topics we have discussed here which can be regarded =as "just a matter of faith", simply because we do not have, and in some cases =never will have enough hard evidence. They will continue to be so, however =much we discuss them (or insult each other), until overwhelming *new* =evidence is produced. = =These include: = =- the face on Mars (I don't think the new probe's photos will be conclusive) =- reincarnation and regression =- the very existence of UFOs and aliens The existence of UFSs is not in any way in doubt. Any time you see something flying and can't identify it, you've seen a UFO. Please use a more appropriate term, like "alien spacecraft" when you mean "alien spacecraft." =- religions and their offshoots =- auras =- astral projection =- the Secret Government =- Bigfoot =- the Kennedy assassination =- politics =- God (He doesn't appear often in this group, but He is sometimes = mentioned in email. For some obscure reason His existence has never seemed = to be in question, although there is no proof whatsoever...) Which of the several groups to which you've posted this are you talking about? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Carl J Lydick | INTERnet: CARL@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU | NSI/HEPnet: SOL1::CARL Disclaimer: Hey, I understand VAXen and VMS. That's what I get paid for. My understanding of astronomy is purely at the amateur level (or below). So unless what I'm saying is directly related to VAX/VMS, don't hold me or my organization responsible for it. If it IS related to VAX/VMS, you can try to hold me responsible for it, but my organization had nothing to do with it. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12836 alt.alien.visitors:11224 alt.religion.kibology:4783 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!batcomputer!theory.TC.Cornell.EDU!mdw From: mdw@theory.TC.Cornell.EDU (Matt Welsh) Subject: Re: Big Bird Message-ID: <1992Nov20.193920.21261@tc.cornell.edu> Sender: news@tc.cornell.edu Nntp-Posting-Host: theory.tc.cornell.edu Organization: Cornell Theory Center References: <69886@cup.portal.com> <67397@cup.portal.com> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 19:39:20 GMT Lines: 12 I'm sorry, this subject line is spellef wrong. It should be Subject: Big Birdf Thanks for the pedanticism, mdw -- Matt Welsh mdw@tc.cornell.edu +1 607 253 2737 Systems Programmer, Cornell Theory Center "We're going away now. I fed the cat." Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!uunet!sybus.sybus.com!myrddin!tct!chip From: chip@tct.com (Chip Salzenberg) Subject: Re: Moon sightings Message-ID: <2B0D1511.7AFC@tct.com> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 16:40:49 GMT References: <1723.479.uupcb@homebase.com> Organization: TC Telemanagement, Clearwater, FL Lines: 11 According to joseph.daniels@homebase.com (Joseph Daniels) : >It was a little different when James Lovell on board the Apollo 8 >command module came out from behind the moon and said for everybody >to hear: 'PLEASE BE INFORMED THAT THERE IS A SANTA CLAUS.' Even >though this happened on Christmas Day 1968, many people sensed a >hidden meaning in those words." Oh, that's just priceless. Really! -- Chip Salzenberg at Teltronics/TCT , <73717.366@compuserve.com> just another elitist Usenet administrator Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12838 alt.alien.visitors:11226 sci.skeptic:34513 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!dtix!darwin.sura.net!aplcen.apl.jhu.edu!uars_mag!roelle From: roelle@uars_mag.jhuapl.edu (Curtis Roelle) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Past Life regression - the proof (was GSI Day) Keywords: Reality / Truth Message-ID: Date: 20 Nov 92 20:55:06 GMT References: <1992Nov20.033335.14360@netcom.com> <1992Nov20.141825.18978@ntb.ch> Sender: news@aplcen.apl.jhu.edu (USENET News System) Organization: Johns Hopkins University Lines: 17 milsom@ntb.ch (Paul Milsom) writes: >There seem to be several topics we have discussed here which can be regarded >as "just a matter of faith", simply because we do not have, and in some cases >never will have enough hard evidence. They will continue to be so, however >much we discuss them (or insult each other), until overwhelming *new* >evidence is produced. >These include: >- the Kennedy assassination Faith aside, there is significant evidence that Kennedy was in fact assassinated. There were at least two reported occurrances within a five year period. Curt Roelle (Not necessarily the opinions of clients or their customers.) Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cis.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!uwm.edu!psuvax1!psuvm!jls19 Organization: Penn State University Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 11:40:56 EST From: Message-ID: <92325.114057JLS19@psuvm.psu.edu> Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Penn State UFO Discussion Group Lines: 9 On Monday, November 23, 1992 at 7:00 pm at 207 Sackett Building, University Park campus, there will be a meeting of the PSU Discussion Group. This weeks' meeting features a discussion panel consisting of Dr. Louis Winkler: Penn State Professor, Astonomer, Consultant and Writer, Bill Thompson: UFO researcher and historian, Bill Russell: NASA Consultant and T. Scott Crain: Local area director of MUFON and author of "UFOs, MJ-12 and the Government: A Report on Government Involvement in UFO Crash Retrievals". This forum is free and open to the general public. Any questions, please feel free to contact Janet L. Smith at (814) 237-6763. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!infonode!case From: case@infonode.ingr.com (Bill Case) Subject: Re: Moon sightings Message-ID: <1992Nov21.002502.26723@infonode.ingr.com> Organization: Intergraph Corporation, Huntsville, AL. References: <1723.479.uupcb@homebase.com> Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 00:25:02 GMT Lines: 7 In article <1723.479.uupcb@homebase.com> joseph.daniels@homebase.com (Joseph Daniels) writes: > >According to Neil Armstrong the Aliens have a base on the Moon >and wanted us to get off and stay off the Moon! That would explain, "That's one giant creep for mankind" Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!batcomputer!reed!henson!news.u.washington.edu!raven.alaska.edu!news From: fxdlk@camelot.acf-lab.alaska.edu (A figment of your imagination) Subject: a.a.v. Frequently Asked Questions [Part 1 of 4] Message-ID: <1992Nov21.005637.17648@raven.alaska.edu> Keywords: FAQ Sender: news@raven.alaska.edu (USENET News System) Nntp-Posting-Host: cygnus.acf-lab.alaska.edu Organization: University of Alaska Computer Network Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 00:56:37 GMT Lines: 1077 alt.alien.visitors Frequently Asked Questions This FAQ was last updated: 11/20/92 (New Additions: See 0.0: What's New) It currently takes up 143k (around 75 printed pages) in all Line width is about 75 char. (Part 1 of 4) Hello and welcome to the alt.alien.visitors Frequently Asked Questions posting. You may notice that this FAQ does not follow the standard question asked, question answered format. The reason for this is that this FAQ is designed to answer questions of people who are new to this Usenet discussion group, and designed to be a useful reference source to those interested in UFOlogy. I tried to keep a neutral stance when I researched the many of the subjects covered in this FAQ; however you may also notice that some of the material seem to be one-sided. When doing some of the research I may have only used one book or source, thus (as you may have noticed) some authors present information from only one point of view and this has a tendency to be carried over to this FAQ, do to the lack of information on the subject from another point of view. (deep huh? well I hope to include more viewpoints as this FAQ grows.) Also please when reading information from this FAQ (as one poster put it) take everything you read here with a very large grain of salt. (rock salt) Even I don't believe all the information that I have included in this FAQ. As I said its mainly a reference to help you out. If you find yourself interested in a UFO related subject, **DO RESEARCH** read books on the subject, dig into both sides, write letters to the authors and researchers. I would once again like to thank everyone who contributed to the FAQ, I would like to especially thank Steve Gamble and Jeff Papineau for the work they put into the UFO Organizations section. Contents ======== (Part 1 of 4) Main Sections ------------- 0.0: Whats new?? 0.1: About alt.alien.visitors 0.2: Posting to alt.alien.visitors 0.3: People who post to alt.alien.visitors 0.4: Common Sense Guidelines 0.5: Example Posting Terminology and Definitions Used in UFOlogy ------------------------------------------- 2.00: a.a.v. 2:01: Astronomical Units (A.U.) 2:02: Close Encounters (CE) & Visual Sightings 2:03: Marfa Lights 2:04: Men In Black (MIB) 2:05: Tectonic Strain Theory (TST) 2:06: UFOnauts 2:07: Unusual Ground Markings (UGM) 2:08: USAF 2:09: Zine Alien Races ----------- NI: Andromedans 3.00: Arcturus 3.01: Aryans (Blondes) 3.02: Blues (Star Warriors) NI: Centaurian 3.03: Confederation of Humans NI: DALs 3.04: Greys NI: Lyrians 3.05: Orion Empire (Orion forces) 3.06: Pleiadians 3.07: Sirius 3.08: Reptoids 3.09: Vega Abductions and Current Theories ------------------------------ 4.00: About Abductions UFOlogists ---------- 5:00: Hopkins, Bud 5:01: Jacobs, Dr David NI: Howe, Linda Moulton 5:02: Klass, Philip J. 5:03: Marciniak, Barbara J. 5:04: Randles, Jenny 5:05: Stringfield, Leonard H. 5:06: Vallee, Jacques (Part 2 of 3) UFO Projects & Theories & Controversies ---------------------------------------- 6.00: Aurora Project or "deep black" projects 6.02: NASA Footage September 10th 6.03: Planetoid (Wormwood) 6.04: Project Blue Book 6.05: Roswell Crash Incident UFO Movies, Documentaries and TV Programs ---------------------------------------- = 7.00: TV Programs NI: Arthur C. Clark's Mysterious World (Discovery channel) 7.01: E. T. Monitor (the Keystone Inspirational Network) 7.02: Hard Copy (??) NI: In Search Of (A&E) 7.04: National Geographic (PBS) 7.05: sightings (FOX) 7.07: Unsolved Mysteries (NBC) = 7.08: UFO Videos, Movies, Documentaries NI: Bermuda Triangle, The NI: Chariots of the Gods 7.09: Close Up 7.10: Communion NI: Disappearance of Flight 412 NI: Endangered Species NI: Hangar 18 MD: Intruders NI: Mysteries from Beyond Earth NI; UFO NI: UFOs are Real 7.11: UFO Coverup Live 7.12: UFO Documentary MD: UFO Incident, The 7.13: UFO, The Films Prove It NI: Visitors from the Unknown UFO Magazines and Publications (UFOzines) ----------------------------------------- 8.00: Circular, The 8.01: Cerealogist, The 8.02: Connecting Link Magazine 8.03: CONTINUUM 8.04: Crop Watcher, The 8.05: Earth, 8.06: Electronic Journal of the Astronomical Society of the Atlantic, The 8.07: Faithist Journal, The 8.08: Focus 8.09: Fortean Times, 8.10: Inner Light 8.11: International UFO Library Magazine 8.12: Magonia, 8.13: Orvotron Newsletter 8.14: Ovni Presence 8.15: Revelations of Awareness 8.16: Swamp Gas Journal 8.17: UFO Universe UFO Book Publishers ------------------- 9.00: Advent Publishing Company 9.02: Arnerica West Publishers 9.03: Arcturus Book Service 9.04: Condor Books, Inc. 9.05: Document Research Services 9.06: Earth Star Publications 9.07: Eden Press 9.08: JACO Book Publishers 9.09: The Library of the New Essenes of Inyo 9.10: Luna Ventures 9.11: The Pleiades Project 9.12: UFO Audio-Video Clearing House 9.13: UFO Books 9.14: UFO Photo Archives 9:15: Worldwide UFO Newsclipping Bureau and Public Information Center 955 West Miscellaneous Information ----------------------- 10.00: A UFO Book List 10.01: alt.alien.visitors archives (back issues) 10.02: Big Foot (Sasquatch) 10.03: Free UFO Class 10.04: Freedom of Information 10.05: Hidden Ancient Ruins 10.06: Inter Library Loans (ILL) 10.07: NASA Shuttle Footage 10.08: UFO Related anonymous FTP Sites (Part 2 of 4) UFO Organizations * Assumed Acronym ------------------ 11.00: Aerial Phenomenon Research: The Indiana Group . . . . .*(APR) 11.02: Aetherius Society, The 11.03: Ancient Astronaut Society . . . . . . . . . . . . . .*(AAS) 11.04: Ancient Truth Research Foundation . . . . . . . . . .*(ATRF) 11.05: Awareness Reserch Foundation, Inc , The . . . . . . .*(ARF) 11.06: Borderland Sciences Research Foundation . . . . . . . . (BSRF) 11.07: British UFO Research Association . . . . . . . . . . . . (BUFORA) 11.08: California UFO . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .*(CUFO) 11.09: Citizens Against UFO Secrecy . . . . . . . . . . . . . (CAUS) 11.10: Committee for the Scientific Investigation of Claims of the Paranormal Contactee . . . . . . . . . . (CSICOP) 11.11: Computer UFO Network . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (CUFON) 11.12: Contactee 11.13: Cosmic Awareness Communications . . . . . . . . . . . .*(CAC) 11.14: CSETI . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (CSETI) 11.15: Delval UFO, Inc. 11.16: Fair Witness Project, Inc., The . . . . . . . . . . . .*(FRP) 11.17: Federation, The 11.18: Flying Saucer Information Center . . . . . . . . . . . .*(FSIS) 11.19: Fortean Research Center, The 11.20: Fund for UFO Research, Inc.,The . . . . . . . . . . . .*(FUFOR) 11.21: Gulf Breeze Skywatch . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .*(GBS) 11.22: Inner-Peace Prosperity Network . . . . . . . . . . . . . (IPPN) 11.23: Intercontinental UF Galactic Spacecraft - Research and Analytic Network . . . . . . . . . . . . (ICUFON) 11.24: International Committeee for UFO Research . . . . . . . (ICUFOR) 11.25: International Fortean Organization . . . . . . . . . . (INFO) 11.26: Intruders Foundation 11.27: Island Skywatch 11.28: J. Allen Hynek Center for UFO Studies . . . . . . . . . (CUFOS) 11.29: Massachusetts Center for the study of Aerial Phenomena, The . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .*(MCSAP) 11.30: Multi-national Investigations Cooperative on Aerial Phenomena . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (MICAP) 11.31: MutuaL UFO Network . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (MUFON) 11.32: Mutual UFO Network of North Carolina, Inc. . . . . . . (MUFON-NC) 11.33: National Investigations Committeee on UFOs . . . . . . .(NICUFO) 11.34: National Sighting Research Center, The . . . . . . . . (NSRC) 11.35: Nevada Aerial Research Group . . . . . . . . . . . . . (NARG) NI: New Zealand UFO Studies Centre . . . . . . . . . . . . .*(NZUFOSC) 11.36: North American Circle . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .*(NAC) 11.37: North American Institute of Crop Circle Research . . . (NAICCR) 11.38: Northamptonshire UFO Research Centre . . . . . . . . . (NUFORC) 11.39: Northern UFO Network . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (NUFON) (Part 4 of 4) 11.40: Omega Communications 11.41: ParaNet (Paranormal Network) Information Service . . . . (PARANET) 11.42: Pennsylvania Association for the Study of the Unexplained . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (PASU) 11.43: Pnet 11.44: Portland UFO Group, The . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (PUFOG) 11.45: Roundtown UFO Society 11.46: Royal Priest Research . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .*(RPR) 11.47: Search for EXtraterrestrial Intelligence, The. . . . . . (SETI) 11.48: Sirian Rainbow Lodge . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .*(SRL) 11.49: SKYNET 11.50: Socie'Te' Belge d'Etude des Phenomenes Spatiaux . . . . (SOBEPS) 11.51: Society for Scientific Exploration . . . . . . . . . . (SSE) 11.52: Society for the Investigation of the Unexplained, The . (SITU) 11.53: System Ready 11.54: Transcendental Communications A Division of LAMAT Research 11.55: UFO Contact Center International . . . . . . . . . . . (UFOCCI) 11.56: UFO Fllter Center . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (UFOFC) 11.57: UFO Information Retrieval Center . . . . . . . . . . . . (UFOIRC) 11.58: UFO Investigators League . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (UFOIL) 11.59: UFO, Paranormal and Conspiracy BBS, THE . . . . . . . .*(UFOPCBBS) 11.60: UFO Reporting and Information Service. . . . . . . . . . (UFORIS) NI: UFO Research Australia . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (UFORA) 11.61: UFO Study Group of Greater St. Louis 11.62: Ufology Research of Manitoba . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (UFOROM) 11.63: United Aerial Phenomena Agency . . . . . . . . . . . . . (UAPA) 11.64: Universal Articulate Interdimensional Understanding of Science (UNARIUS Academy of Sciences) . (UNARIUS) 11.65: Victorian U.F.O. Research Society Inc. . . . . . . . . . (VUFORS) Disclaimer ---------- FAQ Requests ------------ FAQ Suggestions --------------- === 0.0: Whats New to the FAQ? ------------------------------ Please not that the newly added UFO magazines, organizations, book publishers, etc... will be added to the list alphebetically but under the headding of "NI" (New Information) until I get a chance to renumber the indix and the FAQ sections. New informarion since last psoting: Alien Races (information added to) Arcturus Confederation of Humans Greys Orion Empire Sirius Reptoids added: (all researched by pul@hardy.u.washington.edu (Arbaline)) Centaurian Lyrians DALs Andromedans UFOlogists Howe, Linda Moulton Stringfield, Leonard H. Vallee, Jacques TV SHOWS: In Search Of Arthur C. Clark's Mysterious World UFO Videos, Movies, Documentaries I have reorganized this section and moved (MD) some movies from the TV dection into this section and renamed the section to include movies. UFOs are Real UFO Visitors from the Unknown Mysteries from Beyond Earth The Bermuda Triangle Chariots of the Gods Disappearance of Flight 412 Endangered Species Hangar 18 UFO Organizations: New Zealand UFO Studies Centre UFO Research Australia === 0.1: About alt.alien.visitors --------------------------------- alt.alien.visitor is a Usenet discussion group available through internet. Currently a.a.v. is the only UFO related discussion group available on Usenet. It caters to a wide rage of UFO related discussion from New Age UFOlogy to Scientific UFOlogy. It currently receives around 36 posting daily. All comments by me are indicated by the square brackets[] === 0.2: Posting to alt.alien.visitors -------------------------------------- The following idea was suggested by matthews_k@cubldr.colorado.edu and is taken from mwauford@UTKUX1.UTK.EDU (Melissa Wauford)'s "*** REC.ARTS.TV POSTING GUIDELINES ***". I have adapted it to fit alt.alien.visitors, and I feel that this is an excellent idea. I would recommend that you use this system when posting to alt.alien.visitors. alt.alien.visitors can be a controversial newsgroup with a wide variety of discussed topics. A few topics may generate more traffic than others and may contain subject matter related to UFOlogy that others wish to filter out or concentrate upon. In order to allow those who use rn or some other method of pre-selecting articles to filter out (or save away) postings about these heavy traffic subjects, an abbreviation scheme has been created. Please help out by starting your subject line with one of the following abbreviations when posting about these topics. For example: Subject: HOT - Dancing Aliens or Subject: OP: Grey finger snacks,(the trick is in how you fold them) New abbreviations will be added as needed. Send suggestions directly to me, and I'll add them to the list. Objections to any abbreviations should probably be posted so that a consensus may be reached. Old abbreviations will be deleted when no longer necessary. Suggested Abbreviations by matthews_k@cubldr.colorado.edu: [revised by Fsdlk@acad3.alaska.edu] ABD = Abduction information CE = Pertaining to UFO sightings and phenomena, Close Encounters, alien contact HA = Jokes & silliness HOT = Someone flaming someone else INV = Postings about alien invasions and conspiracies MISC = Other categories like Atlantis/Mu/Spacemen, etc... NA = New Age stuff NEWS = UFO related news, upcoming conventions. OP = Opinions REP = Repostings of older post like Lear, Cooper, etc.. SCI = Scientific (preferably not pseudo) findings on UFO related issues === 0.3: People who post to alt.alien.visitors ---------------------------------------------- Readers and writers of a.a.v. are made up of: A) People that have had contact.(Rarely post... obvious reasons) B) Government paid disinformation people. (Poor to fair fiction) C) Questioning/Inquiring minds (post questions, do research, answer questions) D) Wanderers (Just passing through, make snide remarks if any) E) A few who think aliens are out there but haven't/won't come here. F) A few who think aliens are with us know but have had no contact. G) Aliens (Grey, life sucking, invader of utopia) H) Guys like me that just can't unsubscribe from this group. (It's just to much fun. Life looks darker and things aren't very clear. (guess this belongs in alt.consp....) But when all else falls through pull up a.a.v. and smile. Someone is always a little worse off than you are and here is one sure fired place to find one. I) People who are not contactees, or new-agers, or sceptics, but are simply interested in high-strangeness phenomenon of all sorts (and generally try not to post snide comments or be simple minded!) J) Humans from parallel dimensions who are trapped in ours. (Luckily, they come from one w/higher tech and brought their own spacefleet. Either that, or they have used our tech to build some things to fight the Grays with, say..Orion-class pulse engines (nuclear explosions for propulsion.)) :) [If anyone wishes to add their humor to this list please mail me, but keep it clean: Fsdlk@acad3.alaska.edu] Main Source: rocko@ireland.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Rick O'leary) Other Contributors: MATTHEWS_K@CUBLDR.Colorado.EDU (Kellie Matthews) wolfone@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Patrick Chester) == 0.4: Common Sense Guidelines ------------------------------- When posting to any Usenet group please follow these general guidelines. (1) Do not post on subjects that clearly unrelated to the newsgroup. Take them to the appropriate news group for discussion. Example: Discussion of abortion, gun control, politics and other strictly non related UFO should not be posted on this news group. (2) Do not completely repost others peoples postings and then write your opinion about it. Selectively edit the the post to get the information you need from it to make your point. The standard symbol used to show information from another post is the ">". Example of what not to do: Repost a long section of material quoted from a previous article, followed by "I agree" or words to that effect. == 0.5: Example Posting ----------------------- Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors From: jonnY@BA.DOE.edu (John Doe) Subject: OP: Roswell Incident Date: Fri, 31 Apr 1992 16:54:39 GMT In article <1597O38cc.040316.26314>truth@less.Dis.Info.edu (Ima Lier) writes: >.. it was in 1936 when the UFO crashed at Roswell ... >Plus there were no witnesses!! Not a single person could be found >to bring forth testimony. According to my sources it happened in 1947 and lots of people saw it. How can you say... [Etc.] -JD ===Terminology and Definitions Used in UFOlogy ---------------------------------------------- 2.00: Astronomical Units (A.U.) ------------------------------ An A.U. is a measurement of space. One A.U. is the average distance of the earth from the sun, about 150 million km. 2.01: a.a.v. ------------ alt.alien.visitors One of the many Usenet discussion groups. 2:02: Close Encounters (CE) & Visual Sightings ---------------------------------------------- NL (nocturnal light) A simple visual sighting of a unidentified flying light seen at night. ND (nocturnal disc) A simple visual sighting of a unidentified flying extended or structured light source seen at night. DD (daylight disc) A simple visual sighting of a UFO seen during the day. Close Encounters of the first kind (CE1, CEI) As first defined by Hynek, a CE1 is an observation of a UFO within 150 yards. Close Encounters of the second kind (CE2, CEII) The finding of physical evidence that a alien craft or race exists. Example: A burn where the craft has landed or the finding of material of unknown makeup. Close Encounters of the third kind (CE3, CEIII) A visual sighting of an alien being or race. Close Encounters of the forth kind (CE4, CEIV) An abduction of an individual by an alien being or race. Close Encounters of the fifth kind (CE5, CEV) A direct contact or communication with alien being or race. Example: Billie Meier with the Pleiadians, U.S.Govt. with the Greys, or channeling. Main Source: JLS19@psuvm.psu.edu (Janet Smith) rutkows@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Chris Rutkowski) 2:03: Marfa Lights ------------------ Marfa lights are balls of lights that appear, change different colors and dance around in the air. These lights where named after the town that they have been appearing in, Marfa Texas. They have also been sited in other areas. Some theories as to what they are include Ball lighting, Car headlights, and Alien space ships. The last current sighting I'm aware of was Marfa Texas on September 1 1992. Main Source: Sightings, FOX Network airdate September 25, 1992 2:03: Men In Black (MIB) ------------------------ These are a group of individuals who are said to wear black suits and drive and fly around in unmarked black cars and helicopters. They go about threatening people who have claimed to have seen UFOs into not talking about what they witnessed. The very first occurrence of MIB was traced to a man named Albert K. Bender. He was the editor of a flying saucer publication called the "Space Review" In the October 1953 issue he placed an announcement stating that he had come across information that would solve the flying saucer mystery but they could not print it because they were ordered not to. They then ended the announcement warning others in saucer work to be "very cautious" they then stopped their publications. Later in an interview Bender stated that "three men wearing dark suits" had ordered him to stop publishing flying saucer material, and that he had complied with the order because he had been "scared to death" of them. He later published a book called "Flying Saucers and the Three Men in Black" Mains Source: "A Review of MIBS (Men In Black) : A History" ParaNet File Number: 00171 Published 1991 by ParaNet Information Service Also see: Flying Saucers and the Three Men in Black by Albert K. Bender 2:05: Tectonic Strain Theory (TST) ---------------------------------- A theory of electromagnetic effects upon the human brain and/or the physical environment, such that all Forteana including UFOs, ghosts, ESP, sasquatch, and religious fervour can be explained as being caused by seismic activity generating electromagnetic radiation which in turn makes people think they are witnesses to an anomalous event. Alternatively, the EMM radiation can luminesce so that it appears as a UFO. Chief proponent: Michael Persinger. A variant is the "Earth Lights" hypothesis described by Paul Devereux. Main Source: rutkows@ccu.UManitoba.CA (Chris Rutkowski) UFO ------ Unidentified Flying Object. Official term used by the Air Force. 2:06: UFOnauts -------------- A term used by the UFO community in reference to the alien abductors or extraterrestrials. 2:07: Unusual Ground Markings (UGM) ----------------------------------- A broad term which includes crop circles, "tripod marks", saucer nests, burn marks, etc. Main Source: rutkows@ccu.UManitoba.CA (Chris Rutkowski) 2:08: USAF ---------- United States Air Force 2:09: Zine ---------- magazine or newsletter pertaining to a specific subject. circlezine - Crop Circle publication ufozine - UFO publication === Alien Races --------------------- These are often talked about in books, Publcations and on this discussion group. NI: Andromedans --------------- These are a non-physical race of purely awesome ancient angelic beings from the Andromeda galaxy. They ultimately are the spiritual force behind the Ashtar command and are the leaders behind the Pleiadians and our whole human branch of evolution! Not only that, but they are the guiding power behind at least one other completely different branch of evolution: The Cygnusian races - quiet, slimy, amphibian like creatures who come from planets in the constellation Cygnus. Again, the way the Andromeda galaxy beings are helping the beings in our own Milky Way galaxy grow, is a macrocosmic example of how the Pleiadians civilization is helping our Earth civilization grow. Source: Information given by pul@hardy.u.washington.edu (Arbaline) UFO Contact from the Pleiades, By Wendelle Stevens 3.00: Arcturus -------------- Members of Confederations of Humans [will do more research later] The Arcturians are a very spiritual race that lives in a universe or reality of pure love. There seems to be a gateway of some sorts at this planet which transmits higher energies to our dimensional universe. Main Sources: A Cosmic Awareness Channel from "Revelations of Awareness" Issue # 371 Information given by pul@hardy.u.washington.edu (Arbaline) The Prism of Lyra 3.01: Aryans (Blondes) ---------------------- Blond Nordic Humanoids who work with the greys. Said to be captured by the Reptoids and also have implants. They are said to have a tendency to switch their loyalties between the Reptoids and the Confederations of Humans. Main Sources: A Cosmic Awareness Channel from "Revelations of Awareness" Issue # 371 3.02: Bllues (Star Warriors) ---------------------------- The Blues are said to have translucent skin, large almond shaped eyes and small of stature. The main issue of their teaching was PURSUE YOUR PASSION, follow your own way, do your own thing, don't be pressured into being anything but what and who you are. The information about the Blues comes from Robert Morningsky a Hopi/Apache dancer. According to Morningsky the first alien contact started about 1947 - 1948 with the Greys contacting the U.S. Government to form a treaty with them. Another body of Aliens arrived, called the Blues. The Blues advised the government not to deal with the greys saying it would only lead to disaster. They told the U.S. to follow your own path. They said they would would teach with peace and harmony if men would disarm and listen. The military said no deal. So they left, but a few decided to remain and stayed in Northern Mexico and Arizona and made a treaty with the Hopi Indians. These Aliens are known by the Hopi as Star Warriors. The greys started monitoring the Blues. So the Blues had to flee the reservation and go into hiding, a few of the Elders went with them. The Hopi legend is that there were two races, the children of the feather who came from the skies, and the children of the reptile who came from under the earth. The children of the reptile chased the Hopi Indians out of the earth, these evil under-grounders were also called two hearts. Main Source: Post from: dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) "FILE: Star Warriors",Forwarded from "contact" by Sande Van der Straten, to Cathy Emerson, Dated 23 Aug 1992, 19:29 Also See: American Indian Magic by Brad Steiger NI: Centaurian -------------- These are blond nordic types who come from Alpha Centauri. They like the Pleiadians seek to help us grow spiritually, but they don't take as active a role as the other races, although they do and have made contacts with select people on Earth. Main Source: Information given by pul@hardy.u.washington.edu (Arbaline) UFO Contact from the Pleiades, By Wendelle Stevens 3.03: Confederation of Humans (Intergalactic Confederation) ----------------------------------------------------------- This is more often referred to as the "Intergalactic Confederation", headed by the Ashtar Command. It consists of an organization of alien groups born out of positive energy, that are helping the human race along and desire to protect them. Includes: Vega, Arcturus, Sirius, Pleiades, Lyrians, DALs and Centaurians. Main Sources: A Cosmic Awareness Channel from "Revelations of Awareness" Issue # 371 pul@hardy.u.washington.edu (Arbaline) The Prism of Lyra UFO Contact from the Pleiades, By Wendelle Stevens NI: DALs -------- This is a race of nordic types who come from what is called the DAL Universe. They are a branch of the Lyrians and are very advanced technically and spiritually; about 300-1000 years ahead of the Pleiadians. They are helping the Pleiadians in a very similar manner to which the Pleiadians are helping us. Main Source: Information given by pul@hardy.u.washington.edu (Arbaline) UFO Contact from the Pleiades, By Wendelle Stevens 3.04: Greys ----------- This is the most commonly identified alien race in UFOlogy. Their are many different views, stories and theories regarding them ranging from the different New Age views to the different Scientific, and conspiracy views. Greys as presented by the Scientific Community: The Greys are the most commonly described race by abduction victims. In this view they are considered a race with an unknown motives, and agendas. They seem to be abducting, studying, testing and using various individuals for their one unclear reasons. [See: Abductions and Current Theories] Greys as presented by the New Age Movement: In the new age movement the Greys are often associated as an evil race, or a race with bad energy. They are often associated with many other races, such as the Reptoids and their motives are known. Greys as presented by Different Conspiracy Theories The different conspiracy theories are often a mix of the scientific and new age views. The standard conspiracy base states that the Greys crashed one or more of their space ships and they were found by the U.S. Government. The Government them makes a secret treaty with the Greys allowing them to abduct humans in exchange for their technology. The conspiracy theories often end with the Greys not keeping their part of the deal. [I will try and include some of the different conspiracy theories when I have more time to research them in detail] Their are descriptions of several types of Greys: they are all humanoid in appearance, a head, main body, two arms, hands, legs, and feet. 1: The most commonly seen grey is around two to four feet tall, very slender and delicate looking, small beings and light weight, extremely penetrating black slanted eyes with no pupils, almost vestigial mouth and nose, a very large head with a pointed chin. The skin color varies from dark grey to light grey, tan to tanish grey, white to pale white. They have no hair on their bodies. 2: Another commonly seen Grey is described similarly as above, except their usually six inches taller, and seem to give the orders. A variation of this same described individual is: same as above except eyes like big black buttons and are rounded. 3: Another type of Grey are the small robot like beings, stocky and little, with smooth rounded hat on top, with dark deep set holes for eyes and a round O shaped mouth, square breastplate with concentric circles on it, smell like burnt match heads, mushroom grey skin. These Greys are often said to act like security guards. Other variations are described as Reptilian like with claws an preying mantis like. There have also been many report of cross breeds that are not exactly human and not exactly Greys. Main Sources: Secret Life, by David M. Jacobs Communion, by Whitley Strieber A Cosmic Awareness Channel from "Revelations of Awareness" Issue # 371 Also See: Missing Time, by Budd Hopkins Intruders, by Budd Hopkins Bashar: Blueprint for Change; a Message from our future. NI: Lyrians ----------- This is the very ancient parent race from which our entire branch of human or humanoid races emerged, including all the nordic types, the Orions, and even the Greys. Quite warlike in the infancy of their civilization, they gradually improved their ways and are now technically and spiritually at about the level of the Pleiadians. Main Source: Information given by pul@hardy.u.washington.edu (Arbaline) The Prism of Lyra UFO Contact from the Pleiades, By Wendelle Stevens 3.05: Orion Empire (Orion forces) --------------------------------- The "Orions" are made up of two opposed races. The "Council of Light" was one based at the star system Betelgeuse, and the equally powerful evil Orions were based at the star system Rigel. The Orions took over lots of planets back in our galaxy's less spiritual days but were always balanced by the Intergalactic Confederation. The conquering part of Orion empire was defeated 200,000 years ago by the Intergalactic Confederation, and they haven't been a threat to Earth since. They are presently getting ready to "transform into the 4th dimension" just as we of Earth are. In fact, some people on Earth are reincarnated Orions who are here to integrate their negativity and hence allow both our worlds to ascend. Main Sources: Information given by pul@hardy.u.washington.edu (Arbaline) EL*AN*RA: the Healing of Orion, By Solara of Star-Borne Bashar: Blueprint for Change; a Message from our future. The Prism of Lyra 3.06: Pleiadians ---------------- The Pleiadians are a collective of extraterrestrials from the star system Pleiades. They are also from various times in our future, starting from 500 years from now to millions of years from now. The Pleiadian culture is ancient and was "seeded" from another universe of love long before Earth was created. They have formed a tremendous society which operates with love, with ideas and ideals that we are yet unfamiliar with. The Pleiadians started a project to contact and inspire earth humans to take back their power and create a better reality for themselves. They are here as ambassadors from another universe to help Earth through her transition from the third dimension to the fourth dimension and to assist each of us in our personal endeavors of awakening, remembering and knowing. As this project has become more successful, more ETs have joined the group, some from other systems. The group later changed its name from Pleiadians to the Pleiadians Plus. The Pleiadians say that their reasons for contacting us is that there is a chance of tyranny in the future and they are coming back to inspire us as much as possible so we will take charge of creating our own reality and change the future. They teach a very empowering form of personal and social metaphysics, with love and clarity. The Pleiadians speak as a collective and there are no individuals identified. They do not appear in physical form although they say they can. They say it is safer to come through the channel, and it does not attract as much attention. Billie Meier's Contact from the Pleiades Billie Meier was contacted over 130 times between 1976 and 1982 by a female named Samjese who said she was from the star system Pleiades. She was the first to telepathically contact Meier and tell him where to go for the first physical contact. Meier had indepth conversations with Samjese. The contact notes are published in following four books and are out of print: UFO ... Contact from the Pleiades Vol I & II Photo Journals (Vol I is in its second printing.) UFO ... Contact from the Pleiades Prilimary Investigation Report UFO ... Contact from the Pleiades Supplementary Investigation Report Message From the Pleiades Vol 1 & 2 Light Years There are 4 videos available on the Pleiades case. Contact $59. The Beamship Trilogy $99. The videos are available from: Genesis III Publishing, P.O. Drawer JJ, Munds Park, AZ 86017 [Also see: The Pleiades Project] There is also a book available called Bringers of the Dawn - Teachings from the Pleiadians by Barbara Marciniak. They also have 2 to 3 hundred tapes available. Main source: Information given by Don_-_Showen@cup.portal.com Connecting Link Magazine Pleiadian article, Channeled by Barbara Marciniak Also See: Out on a Limb, by Shirley MacLaine 3.07: Sirius ------------- Members of Confederations of Humans [will do more research later] They are a watery, dreamy race who are basically an evolved version of dolphins and whales, somewhat. They are said to live in the Christ consciousness, and are in a solar system very linked with our own in a psychic manner. They too play a role in helping Earth, but they are doing it from a more subtle standpoint, like through the cetaceans in our seas. Source: Main Source: A Cosmic Awareness Channel from "Revelations of Awareness" Issue # 371 Information given by pul@hardy.u.washington.edu (Arbaline) The Rays and the Initiations from the Theosophical society & "Bashar" Also See: Prism of Lyra 3.08: Reptoids --------------- A reptilian race from Draco bent on conquest, They are said to be controling the greys by means of an implant, the same one that the gray are implanting into humans. They are also said to be the master minds behind the abduction plans. Their master plan involves using the newly created 'Half-breeds' with implants to defeat the Confederations of Humans. The Reptoids also use humans as food. [Does this remind you of the movie V?] Main Source: A Cosmic Awareness Channel from "Revelations of Awareness" Issue # 371 3.09: Vega ---------- Members of Confederations of Humans [will do more research later] Main Source: A Cosmic Awareness Channel from "Revelations of Awareness" Issue # 371 === Abductions and Current Theories ----------------------------------- 4.00: About Abductions ---------------------- There are many people who believe they have been abducted by UFOnauts. These abduction victims often experience memory loss and "missing time". some of them have been able to recall their abductions from memory and others have recalled their abductions by the aid of hypnosis. Often these encounters involve being taken aboard an alien craft and examined by the UFOnauts and put through a variety of physical and mental procedures. Then the individuals are returned. Many of the abduction victims has shown signs of Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder. Some of the major researchers who have studied the abduction field include Budd Hopkins, David Jacobs, John Mach, Philip Klass, and Jenny Randles. There are several groups with distinct opinions. The dyed-in-the-wool Skeptics, who who don't believe it. Others who are passing no verdict, but are still examining the evidence. Those who believe due to the similarities of the abduction testimonies. Those who claim to have information through means such as channeling. Those who claim to have had first-person experiences, with automatic conscious recall. Those who claim to have had first-person experiences, with recall under hypnotic regression. The opinions of some skeptics such as Klass believe that the hypnotists themselves are leading the abduction victims unknowingly into believing that they have had an abduction experience. The skeptics believe that the the media has been saturated so much with the abduction material that when people having nightmares or people who believe that they have experienced the "missing time" are put under hypnosis, they draw upon what they have seen in the media to fulfill the expectations of the hypnotist and causes themselves to be put trough the trauma for that reason. They say the nightmares are often caused by the sleeping disorder narcolepsy, and the "missing time" is not an uncommon experience and is caused when the mind is preoccupied by other matters. They often give the advice to go to clinical doctors, and not to contact an abductionist. Other researchers such as Jacobs and Hopkins believe that there is something physical causing the abduction experiences. Hobkins has stated that he believes that the abduction are real and that the recounts of the abductions are to similar to each other to be anything but the truth. Jacobs takes a slightly different approach, he has been categorizing all the accounts and trying to find patterns in the testimonies. Through this method he come up with new more indepth theories regarding the abductions. [I'll give these late when I have time] The Channelers believe that the abductions are part of a battle between good energy forces and evil energy forces. [See Reptoids, Greys and Pleiadians] There people on the net who believe they have had personal experiences with Alien contacts or abductions. Some have posted accounts of their experiences. Many others decline to post due to attacks by skeptics. There has been possible material evidence of UFOs or Alien contacts. There are abundant material traces, even excepting those confiscated by the military. Material traces include burned grass and earth where UFOs have landed, UFOs shown on radar tapes, UFOs on film and in photos. Bodily traces on abductees include scoop-marks in the flesh, incisions, burns, apparent radiation exposure, bruises, inflammation, etc. Whether any of these is considered *evidential*, however, is a subjective value call. For anyone who is interested in abduction help call: Bill Knell Director of Island Skywatch (718)591-1854 (New York) He can get you in touch with the right people in your area and has a lot of videos, tapes and books on UFOs and abductions. He is also a very experienced researcher/investigator. Main Sources: UFO-Abductions: A Dangerous Game, by Philip Klass Secret Life, by David M. Jacobs Communion, by Whitley Strieber dfs30@DUTS.ccc.amdahl.com (Denise Solis) A Cosmic Awareness Channel from "Revelations of Awareness" Issue # 371 Also See: Missing Time, by Budd Hopkins Intruders, by Budd Hopkins Alien Abductions: Mystery Solved by Jenny Randiles === UFOlogists -------------- 5:00: Hopkins, Bud ------------------ Bud Hopkins graduated from Oberlin college. He is also a painter and sculptor. He has been investigating UFO report for the lat 12 years. Bud Hopkins c/o Random House 201 E. 50th Street New York, NY 10022 5:01: Jacobs, Dr David ---------------------- David Jacobs is an Associate Professor of History at temple University. He has worked with over 300 UFO abduction witnesses. He works closely with a number of other abduction researchers including Budd Hopkins. Dr. Jacobs moderates an abduction conference on ParaNet, and is accessible via their dial-up BBS node (303-431-8797) or on Internet through a list server. [See ParaNet] Dr. David Jacobs Department of History Temple University Philadelphia, Pa 19122 NI: Howe, Linda Moulton ----------------------- Producer, director, writer, etc. of films, videos, and scripts, including "A Strange Harvest", a documentary on the 'cattle mutilation' phenomenon (and a book, "An Alien Harvest"). She is the "concept" person for the Fox TV show "Sightings" (credited at the end of each show.) Linda Moulton Howe Productions 3208 East Fremont Dr. Littleton, CO 80122 Main Source: mcgrew@dropout.rutgers.edu (Charles Mcgrew) 5:02: Klass, Philip J. ---------------------- For thirty-five years a senior editor with Aviation Week and Space Technology magazine, is recognized as the world's leading skeptical authority in Unidentified Flying Objects and has written three books on the subject. Klass, a graduate electrical engineer, is a founding Fellow of the Committeee for the Scientific Investigation of Claims of the Paranormal. He was honored in 1973 for his accuracy as a techjournalist by being named a Fellow at the Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers. Main Source: The about the author paragraph inUFO-Abductions: A Dangerous Game, by Philip Klass, C1988 5:03: Marciniak, Barbara J. --------------------------- Barbara J. Marciniak is an internationally known trance channel from North Carolina. She began channeling in 1988. The strength and purity of the message she is bringing very quickly captured the hearts of many seekers looking to be all that they can be. Barbara has channeled at various Expos and for groups across the United States, in Peru and in Germany. You may contact Barbara at: Bold Connections Connecting Link Magazine P. O. Box 6521, 9392 Whitneyville Rd. Raleigh, NC 27628. Alto, MI. 49302-9694 5:04: Randles, Jenny -------------------- Jenny Randles 37 Hasthbank Road Stockport, Cheshire SK3 0UP 5.05: Stringfield, Leonard H. ----------------------------- Long-time researcher and author of a number of UFO crash/retrieval books, which provide excellent source material. Formerly Director of International UFO research organization CRIFO (Civilian Research, Interplanetary Objects - a large UFO organization of the mid-1950's) 1953-57, published "Orbit", the CRIFO monthly newsletter. Served in USAAC 5th AF in intellence and counter-intelligence unit in WWII (Pacific theater); worked cooperatively with USAF (as civilian) in 1954-57 to screen UFO reports in Ohio/Kentucky/Indiana area; Public Relations Advisor for NICAP, 1957-1970; served on MUFON board of directors, currently Research Specialist (crash/retrieval) for MUFON. Leonard H. Stringfield 4412 Grove Avenue Cincinnati, Ohio 45227, USA Main Source: mcgrew@dropout.rutgers.edu (Charles Mcgrew) 5.06: Vallee, Jacques --------------------- Longtime UFO researcher, prolific writer, and computer scientist. He was a leader of (and later retreated from) the "fairie" explainations of UFO's (that is, that whatever they were, they were from the same source as legends about supernatural, "magical" creatures) in the 1970's, and has more recently written that extraterrestrial-only explainations for UFO's may be biasing inquiry. Vallee, Jacques 1550 California St. #6L San Franciscom CA 94109 Main Source: mcgrew@dropout.rutgers.edu (Charles Mcgrew) Bitnet: Fsdlk@alaska ( FAQ Part 1 of 4) Internet: Fsdlk@acad3.alaska.edu ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~ ........... ....... . . . ~ ~ . . . Nasha tai no kasei! . . ~ ~ ... ....... . . ~ ~ . . Prosperity and Long Life, To You. ~ ~ .... xisting . hantom . . ~ ~ . . ~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!caen!uunet!pipex!demon!evil.demon.co.uk!fis Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors From: fis@evil.demon.co.uk (fis) Subject: JW Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 00:37:53 +0000 Message-ID: <3576@evil.demon.co.uk> Sender: usenet@gate.demon.co.uk Lines: 10 I suggest we have a whip round so that we can hire someone to pay a visit to Mr J Winston. On their arrival their duty would be to shove the largest object in the vicinity down his THROAT! JOHN - YOU'RE DOING OUR HEADS IN, AND WE WISH YOU WERE DEAD. fis@evil.demon.co.uk Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!rpi!batcomputer!reed!henson!news.u.washington.edu!raven.alaska.edu!news From: fxdlk@camelot.acf-lab.alaska.edu (A figment of your imagination) Subject: a.a.v. Frequently Asked Questions [Part 2 of 4] Message-ID: <1992Nov21.005801.17746@raven.alaska.edu> Keywords: FAQ Sender: news@raven.alaska.edu (USENET News System) Nntp-Posting-Host: cygnus.acf-lab.alaska.edu Organization: University of Alaska Computer Network Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 00:58:01 GMT Lines: 1005 alt.alien.visitors Frequently Asked Questions This FAQ was last updated: 11/20/92 (New Additions: See 0.0: What's New) It currently takes up 143k (around 75 printed pages) in all Line width is about 75 char. (Part 2 of 4) === UFO Projects & Theories & Controversies -------------------------------------------- 6.00: Aurora Project or "deep black" projects ---------------------------------------------- The "Black Projects" are governmental projects that are considered technological secrets. These can range from laser and particle beams to top secret aircraft. The "Aurora Project" is the name given to one of these types of projects by the industry experts involving two new types of reported aircraft. These aircraft where observed in the south west US and are said to have been developed at highly classified government facilities in the Nevada desert. There are two types of advanced aircraft reported. One is nick named the "Pulser" aircraft. There have been many sights of this aircraft by several different witnesses. When sighted it has repetitively been described as "A high-speed aircraft characterized by a very loud, deep, rumbling engine noise (1-2 Hz pulse rate) reminiscent of heavy-lift rockets." The smoke trail of the aircraft is described as being segmented and in a linked sausage shape. (Or another good example would be to look at one side of your coat zipper, un-zipped, with the teeth facing you) It is also described as a high-altitude aircraft that crossed the sky at extremely high speeds. Both ground based and airborne observers have reported it to be seen flying at altitudes above 50,000 ft. observers have reported see the aircraft as a single bright light that seldom changed direction, however speed changes where observed. One observer estimated that it covered 350 miles in 6 minutes. (3500 miles/hr) This this aircraft may indeed exist. There has been research in to what are called Pulsed Detonation Engines (PED's) also refereed to as Pulsed Detonation Wave Engines. These are different type of engine than the pulse jet engines, which is already publicly know, and has been tested in aircraft. The PED's are said to be in laboratory and computer analysis level of development (reported oct of 91) The PED's exhaust emission produces smoke trails that closely match the pulser aircraft. Simulations of theses engines are said to be able to propel large aircraft in the "Mach 0.2-3.0 flight regime" How PED's work: PED's use shock waves created in a detonation to compress the fuel-oxidizer mixture prior to combustion. A cylinder chamber designed to support the detonation is constructed with a flat forward end which makes up the thrust wall. Air along with fuel is fed into the engine from behind the thrust-wall. The detonation wave created travels forward to the thrust wall at about Mach 4 and compresses the fuel-air mixture, promotes supersonic combustion and causes a pressure rise in the engine. The wave then strikes the thrust wall and rebounds accelerating the combustion products towards the nozzle. Some of the products are ejected by the wave to the outside air-stream through the air inlet openings creating a toroidal vortex out side the engine. Then the cycle repeats. The said advantages of this type of engine are: * Theoretically a higher fuel efficiency than a "constant pressure engine" * Engines can be produced in many sizes and thrust outputs from a few inches in diameter at a thrust of several pounds to larger one that can output in the thousands of pounds range. * They have high thrust to weight ratio (ie.lighter engine, more thrust) * They are mechanically simple, and have few moving parts. * They could operate in or out of the atmosphere using fuel oxidizers. There is very little information on the other reported aircraft. It is reported as "A triangular-shaped, quiet aircraft". This craft has been seen by many observers and flying with several F-117 stealth aircraft. Main Sources: Aviation Week & Space Technologies, (Oct 1, 90 pp20-23) & (oct 28, 91 pp68-69) Also See: Aviation Week & Space Technologies [please note: one of these dates is a December 24, 1990 pg. 41-44 couple days off, on the actual June 20, 1991 pg. 20-21 magazine date.] March 9, 1992 pg. 66-67 May 11, 1992 pg. 62-63 6.02: NASA Footage September 10th --------------------------------- Space Ice or an alien craft dodging a missile. That's the big debate on the footage taken by an unmanned camera on the space shuttle. One side says that it is space Ice accelerated by the space shuttles thrusters. The other side says the excelleration of some the objects don't follow the correct paths don't match physics. They speculate its a alien craft dodging a Starwars missile. Main source: Sightings, FOX Network, airdate September 25, 1992 6.03: Planetoid (Wormwood) -------------------------- Beyond Pluto astronomers believe there is a ring of ice chunks circling the solar system 37 to 59 A.U. from the sun. They have called the ice belt the Kuiper belt. Beyond that astronomers say there is a similarly composed Oort cloud which forms a sphere around our planetary system that stretches two light years in distance. A tiny red spot of light was recorded in hawaii in October of 92, which is thought to be the first component of the Kuiper belt ever observed. The object was named 1992 QB1. It is about 200 km across and 5.1 billion km away from the sun (41.2 a.u.). The object is fairly red, suggesting a surface rich in organics. The current position is, for 0h UT on September 15, 1992: 0h 00.09+0d 01'.7 (2000.0). It is moving retrograde at only 3" per hour. David Jewitt and Jane Luu discovered it using the University of Hawaii's 2.2-meter telescope on Mauna Kea. They have been searching for such an object for the last five years. The first images were secured August 30, but just as with the discovery of Pluto in 1930 the discovery was kept "under wraps" for awhile to allow a better assessment. Jewitt believes it to be one of the larger members of the Kuiper belt. Jewitt says that it will take two months to confirm the object. Another theory involving the planetoid comes to us from channelers. It is a hollowed out body that was moved here by the Reptoids, in order to transport an army of Grays or Reptoids. [sorry, I'm not sure which, I haven't had a chance to research this in-depth] It is now parked outside the orbit of Pluto. It is currently being used as a base by the Reptoids. Then there is also the theory that the planetoid may be the star that is mentioned in the Bible as "Wormwood" (also translated as "bitterness"); which when the "third angel" in the book of Revelation blew his trumpet, fell to the earth and poisoned one third of the earths waters. Another interesting fact is that "chernobyl" (as in the Nuclear power plant in "Russia" that had a meltdown) in Ukranian also means Wormwood. Main Source: "Beyond Pluto" by MichaaelD. Lemonick, p. 59, Time Magazine Sep. 28, 92 "#Object beyond Pluto", Compuserve article #110734 S14/News/Current Events by Roger Sinnott, 14-Sep-92 A Cosmic Awareness Channel from "Revelations of Awareness" Issue # 371 Bible, Revelation chapter 8 Verses 10 & 11 6.04: Project Blue Book ----------------------- On Sep 30 ,1947 Lt General Twining of ACM expressed his opinion that there was sufficient substance in reports to warrant a study on UFOs. On Dec. 23,1947 Project Sign was established to collect, collate, evaluate, and disseminate all information concerning UFO sightings and phenomena. Project sign completed it evaluations in Feb of 1949 and concluded "No definite and conclusive evidence is yet available that would prove or disprove the existence of these UFOs as real aircraft of unknown and unconventional configuration." Project Sign was changed to Project Grudge on Dec.16, 1948. Project Grudge recommended that the investigation and study of UFO reports be reduce in scope. In early 1950 UFO reports by the public increased. This prompted Project Grudge to be changed to Project Blue Book in march of 1952. Project Blue Book goals were to find out: 1: To find an explanation for all the reported sighting of UFO's. 2: To determine if the UFO posed any security threat to the United States. 3: To determine if UFO's exhibit any advanced technology which the U.S. could Utilize. When the project ended the Air Force concluded: 1: There is no evidence that any UFOs are "extraterrestrial vehicles" 2: No UFO has ever given any indication of a threat to the national security. 3: There is no evidence that UFO's represent technological developments or principals beyond present-day scientific knowledge. You can get the project Blue Book papers from Any Federal Repository which has copies of National Archives material (there are various scattered around the country). Or, you can go to the National Archives in Washington, DC. They're on microfilm, like the Census records that genealogists use. [I will finish researching this later, I had to return the book before I was done. :-(] Main Source: Project Blue Book: The Top Secret UFO Findings Revealed, By Brad Steiger, 1976 sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer) 6.05: Roswell Crash Incident ---------------------------- The Roswell Incident started with sightings of UFOs on June 24, 1947. In July 2, of the sane year Mac Brazel heard a loud crash. The next day he went out Horseback riding with a neighbor and came upon a field with debris scattered about. The debris field was 3/4 of a mile long and 300 feet wide. It was oriented in a northwest to southeast direction. There was a gouge in the northwest side of the debris field that was 500 feet long and 10 feet wide. The debris on the field mostly consisted of I-beams and parchment like, paper thin pieces of metal material. The material was very light in weight, a dull gray in color, and most pieces were 6 to 7 inches in length. Some pieces that were even thinner that paper could not be broken in half, cut or burned. Mac Brazel collected several pieces of the debris and went back to his ranch. On July 6, Brazel went into Roswell to report what he had seen and to show a piece of the debris to sheriff Wilcox. The sheriff decided to call the local air base. During this time Frank Joyce called in from the local radio station to see if anything newsworthy was happening around town. Brazel gave him the information about what he had found. Major Jesse A. Marcel and a few other military personal arrived from the base only a few minutes after the sheriff had finished talking to the people at the base. Brazel and the military personal left and went back to the Ranch. The next morning (July 7) they went to the crash sight. The military retrieved some of the debris and returned to Roswell. On July 8, the military came back and sealed off the area, They took Brazel into custody. That same day they found a second crash sight two and 1/2 miles southeast of the first. Barney Barnett and 4 archaeologists had stumbled onto the new sight a few minutes before the military had gotten there. At the sight was found a "pretty good sized metallic dull gray object" and 4 small alien bodies. They were 4 to 5 feet tall, with large pair shaped heads, small bodies and skinny arms and legs. They had two large eyes, no ears and no hair. Their skin was pinkish grey and leathery. They were wearing a one piece grey suits. The civilians were escorted out of the area when the military arrived. On July 9th the military escorted Brazel to the radio station , there he told Frank Joyce that he saw a weather balloon. He left again with the military and didn't get back to his ranch until around July 15. Later when asked about what had happened Brazel said he had given a oath and could not talk about it. The Incident remained closed and the public and UFO research organizations at large accepted the weather balloon story until 1970 when Jesse A. Marcel broke the silence and told his part in the story. Main source: UFO Crash at Roswell by Kevin D. Randle & Donald R. Schmitt Published 1991 by Avon Books === UFO Movies, Documentaries and TV Programs -------------------------------------------- = 7.00: TV Programs ------------ 7.01: E. T. Monitor (the Keystone Inspirational Network) -------------------------------------------------------- - A program that originates from Pennsylvania, it has a pre-recorded and a live section. The person who runs it sells packets of books by mail-order. He likes to think that he is presenting irrefutable proof not only of the existence of UFOs but also of the Government's Conspiracy to keep them secret and frequently features people like Randall Terry. Main Source: COSJOAA@YALEVM.BITNET NI: Arthur C. Clark's Mysterious World (Discovery channel) ---------------------------------------------------------- - an early 1980's half-hour show hosted by the man himself. The show was similar to "In Search Of", in theme and content, a few of which covered UFO's. Main Source: mcgrew@dropout.rutgers.edu (Charles Mcgrew) 7.02: Hard Copy (??) -------------------- - Belgian UFO's, 1990 - more European NI: In Search Of (A&E) ---------------------- - a late 1970's half-hour show, currently in syndication (on A&E, right now), hosted by Leonard Nimoy. Each show took on a different unusual phenomenon, and gave a thumbnail sketch of the story of it. The show's format was decidedly non-sceptical, with lines like "could it be that <'believer' side>?" and "some believe that ". UFO-related shows include "UFO", "UFO Australia", "UFO Captives", "Earth Visitors", and several others, along with various non-UFO things -- Loch Ness Monster, Bigfoot, Killer Bees, Atlantis, Reincarnation, DB Cooper, Shroud of Turin, and some fairly mundane things - Tornados, Volcanos, and Earthquakes. The Fox network show "Sightings" is very similar in theme, but often devotes significantly less time to a given subject. Main Source: mcgrew@dropout.rutgers.edu (Charles Mcgrew) 7.04: National Geographic (PBS) ------------------------------- - English Crop Circles, 1991 7.05: sightings (FOX) --------------------- - Crop circles 1992 - Mexico video Sightings, Sept 11, 1992 - NASA Shuttle UFO/(debated Ice chunk), July? 1992 7.07: Unsolved Mysteries (NBC) ------------------------------ - Eupen, Belgium UFO, 1991 - Cash/Landrum UFO, 1990 - 1965 Kecksburg, PA UFO, 1990 - Widthville, W VA UFO, 1992 = 7.08: UFO Videos, Movies, Documentaries ----------------------------------------- NI: The Bermuda Triangle ------------------------ - (1975) Based on Charles Berlitz's book of the same name. Something of a rambling discourse, which touches on the Bermuda Triangle, UFO's, the "Philadelphia Experiment". (A later "Nova" episode of the same name answers a lot of the BT stuff.) Main Source: mcgrew@dropout.rutgers.edu (Charles Mcgrew) NI: Chariots of the Gods ------------------------ - (1974) based on Eric von Daniken's book. Main Source: mcgrew@dropout.rutgers.edu (Charles Mcgrew) 7.09: Close Up -------------- - interview w/ two Rhode Island UFO enthusiasts 885-0366, 1992 MUFON Box 1122, Davisville, RI 02854 7.10: Communion --------------- -Based off the book Communion bu Whitley Strieber NI: Disappearance of Flight 412 ------------------------------- - (1974, non-documentary) Glenn Ford as a USAF officer who stumbles across a secret USAF project to study UFO's. Main Source: mcgrew@dropout.rutgers.edu (Charles Mcgrew) NI: Endangered Species ---------------------- - (1982, non-documentary) Robert Urich stumbles across the cattle-mutilation phenomenon, and a secret government unit studying it. Main Source: mcgrew@dropout.rutgers.edu (Charles Mcgrew) NI: Hangar 18 ------------- - (1980, non-documentary) NASA studies a crashed UFO at "Hangar 18", which malign governmental forces wish to destroy. Main Source: mcgrew@dropout.rutgers.edu (Charles Mcgrew) MD: Intruders --------------- - CBS miniseries June? 1992, Based off Budd Hopkins book Intruders NI: Mysteries from Beyond Earth ------------------------------- - (1975) rambling documentary of UFOs, witchcraft, Bermuda Triangle, psychic healing, etc... Main Source: mcgrew@dropout.rutgers.edu (Charles Mcgrew) NI: UFO ------- - (1956) the first UFO documentary, including real UFO footage from the early 1950's. A good introduction into the UFO phenomenon up until that time. Main Source: mcgrew@dropout.rutgers.edu (Charles Mcgrew) NI: UFOs are Real ----------------- - (1979) Well-above-average compilation of UFO film and photos, along with some additional information, e.g. the 1973 Coyne helicopter encounter, Gordon Cooper's letter to the UN in 1973, Billy Meier, and interviews with Wendell Stevens, Bruce Macabee, Stanton Friedman, Ted Phillips, Jesse Marcel (and the major points of the Roswell crash), Travis Walton, Betty Hill, Marjorie Fish, and James Harder. Main Source: mcgrew@dropout.rutgers.edu (Charles Mcgrew) 7.11: UFO Coverup Live ---------------------- - UFO film from Guatemala, 1988 (Note from plw@ssd.ray.com: most convincing footage I've seen) 7.12: UFO Documentary --------------------- - Jesse Marcel interview, 1982 MD: UFO Incident, The ----------------------- - NBC Oct 20, 1975, - the Betty Hill abduction story Based on the book "Interrupted Journey: Two lost hours aboard a flying saucer" by John Fuller 7.13: UFO, The Films Prove It ----------------------------- -A melange of television tapes, 1992 NI: Visitors from the Unknown ----------------------------- - (1991) A CBS documentary on several abductions, including the 1975 Travis Walton case, the 1980 Alan Godfrey case, and the 1988 John Salter (and his son) case. Main Source: mcgrew@dropout.rutgers.edu (Charles Mcgrew) === UFO Magazines and Publications (UFOzines) --------------------------------------------- [I will include the magazines from the UFO groups later] 8.00: The Circular ------------------ 58 Kings Rd., West End, Woking, Surrey GU24 9LW, England 8.01: The Cerealogist --------------------- 20 Paul St., Frome, Somerset, BA11 1DX, England 8.02: Connecting Link Magazine ------------------------------ Connecting Link Magazine 9392 Whitneyville Rd. Alto, MI. 49302-9694 8.03: CONTINUUM --------------- The official news magazine for ParaNet and MICAP. It is published quarterly and provides thought-provoking information and articles written by leading UFOlogists. This magazine provides global insight and reflects material carried over the world-wide ParaNet Information Service network. Subscriptions are $18.00/year and are available by sending checks for U.S. funds to: ParaNet, Box 172, Wheat Ridge, CO 80034-0172. 8.04: The Crop Watcher --------------------- 3 Selborne Court, Tavistock Close, Romsey, Hampshire, SO517TY, England 8.05: Earth ----------- 61 Ran elagh, Ave., Bradford, BD10 0HF, UK. 8.06: The Electronic Journal of the Astronomical Society of the Atlantic ------------------------------------------------------------------------ The Electronic Journal of the Astronomical Society of the Atlantic (EJASA) is published monthly by the Astronomical Society of the Atlantic, Incorporated. The ASA is a non-profit organization dedicated to the advancement of amateur and professional astronomy and space exploration, as well as the social and educational needs of its members. ASA membership application is open to all with an interest in astronomy and space exploration. Members receive the Journal of the ASA and the Astronomical League's REFLECTOR magazine. Members may also purchase discount subscriptions to ASTRONOMY and SKY & TELESCOPE magazines. For information on membership, you may contact the Society at any of the following addresses: Astronomical Society of the Atlantic (ASA) c/o Center for High Angular Resolution Astronomy (CHARA) Georgia State University (GSU) Atlanta, Georgia 30303, U.S.A. Phone: (404) 264-0451 leave your address and/or receive the latest Society news. Internet: asa@chara.gsu.edu Modem: ASA BBS: (404) 564-9623, 300/1200/2400 Baud. Back issues of the EJASA are also available from anonymous FTP at: chara.gsu.edu (131.96.5.29) 8.07: The Faithist Journal -------------------------- Kosmon Publishing 2324 Suffock Avenue Kingman, Arizona 86401 C. Benfield (President) Kasandra Kares (Editor) Publication is The Faithist Journal Founded in 1970 A non-profit organization which publishes "The Faithist Journal" (Bi-Monthly), magazines and books dealing with New Age topics, including UFOs. 8.08: Focus ----------- William L. Moore Publications & Research See: Fair Witness Project, Inc. 4219 West Olive Avenue Suite #247 Burbank, California 91505 Williarn L. Moore 213-463-0542 Publishing entity for Antares Publishing, The Fair Witness Project, Inc., and "Focus" magazine (which specializes in UFOs, New Age, Metaphysical, and Occult research; offers a substantial listing of books, government document reprints, papers, pamphlets, back issues of George Van Tassel's "Proceedings of the College of Universal Wisdom" newsletter, research files, folios, back issues of "Focus" (the Fair Witness Project newsletter), cassette tapes, and video tapes for sale.Discounts on various items are available to booksellers and other qualifie buyers."Focus" subscribers are entitled to a 25% discount on all items 8.09: Fortean Times ------------------- 1 Shoebury Road, London E6 2AQ UK. 8.10: Inner Light ----------------- Inner Light Publications Box 753 New Brunswick, New Jersey 08903 Publications Timothy Green Beckley (Publisher & Editor) Publication is Inner Light A diverse entity which publishes numerous UFO-related books, periodicals, tapes, etc., "UFO Review" magazine and the monthly "Inner Light" magazine; also sponsors numerous UFO conferences and symposiums throughout the United States. 8.11: International UFO Library Magazine ---------------------------------------- 11684 Ventura Blvd. #708 Studio City, CA 91604. 8.12: Magonia ------------- 5 James Terrace, London SW14 8HB, UK. 8.13: Orvotron Newsletter ------------------------- orvotron bi-monthly newsletter Solinus and Kortron We are pleased to send a "Love Copy" of the most current newsletter to anyone you think will be interested. Just pass your friend's name and address on to us and we will mail out the issue compliments of you. Back issues contain much information which is still relevant and may provide some clarity on subjects discussed in subsequent newsletters. Love donations (which should be made payable to Judith A. Wells) are greatly appreciated and go to Spirit's work to create Heaven on Earth. A subscription also entitles you to log-on the Spirit Bulletin Board Service, a computer/modem system with files on alternate energy, UFO/extraterrestrial happenings, politics, science, medical information, the conspiracy and much more. The files are updated frequently and we encourage you to use and contribute to this "library at your fingertips". You may access this information 24 hours a day by calling via computer 1-704-297-5973. For a year's subscription (six bimonthly issues) and userstatus on Spirit BBS please send $30.00 (USA) or $40.00 (all other countries) in check or money order (no cash please) made payable to: Judith A. Wells Phone - (704) 297-2342 Route 2, Box 309B FidoNet - 1:379/703 Vilas, NC 28692 BBS - 704-297-5973 , 8.14: Ovni Presence ------------------- CP 342, CH-1800, Vevey 1, Switzerland. 8.15: Revelations of Awareness ------------------------------ "Revelations of Awareness" published by Cosmic Awareness Communications (CAC). Revelations of Awareness is a Newsletter that covers UFO as they relate to channeling and the New Age movement. All the information given in the newsletter is information recorded from channeling sessions. The format of of the news letter begins with a question asked of the Cosmic Awareness, then replies are given by the Awareness through the rest of the news letter starting out with the phrase "This Awareness indicates..." The following Statement appears at the top of every Issue: Cosmic Awareness is the force that expressed Itself through Jesus of Nazareth, the Buddha, Krishna, Mohammed, Edgar Cayce and other great avatars who served as 'Channels' for the 'Heavenly Father' and who speaks again today as the world begins to enter the 'New Age' of spiritual consciousness and awareness. Since 1963 Cosmic Awareness has been communicating through carefully trained channels. This information is for those who desire to help in bringing in the new age. Throughout the thousands of 'Readings' given through these various channels, Cosmic Awareness tells us not to believe anything, but to question, explore, doubt, and discover for yourself, through your own channel what is the truth. Cosmic Awareness will only 'indicate' and 'suggest'. Neither C.A.C or any of the Interpreters is responsible for anything Cosmic Awareness states in any of these readings, nor does C.A.C. or the Interpreters necessarily agree with the statements of Cosmic Awareness. The interpreters interpret the energies as they see them in trance levels and are not personally responsible for what is said. This is entirely the responsibility of the editor. Members of C.A.C. are invited to send in questions of general interest to ask Awareness for possible publication in this newsletter. Paul Shockley, Interpreter. The Revelations of Awareness comes out every three weeks The memberships which are available (using the Honer system) are: Limited Income $30 per year $9 quarterly Individual $42 per year $12 quarterly Family $52 per year $20 quarterly Contributing $77 per year $25 quarterly Sponsoring $144 per year $40 quarterly Benefactor $500 per year $150 quarterly Patron $1000 per year $250 quarterly Endowing $5000 per year $1500 quarterly Outside USA Add $15.00 per year to cover postage (including Canada) To send off for information about the C.A.C. or to subscribe to their news letter write to: Cosmic Awareness Communications P.O. Box 115 Olympia, WA 98507 8.16: Swamp Gas Journal ----------------------- The Swamp Gas Journal Covers a variety of scientific UFO related Phenomena. It reviews articles, books and research publications put out by different researchers and organizations. The Swamp Gas Journal is free with limited distribution, but is available primarily through zine exchanges, regularly contributing Fortean info, or by providing two (2) International Postal Reply Coupons in lieu of a subscription (to cover postage). The Swamp Gas Journal is a ufozine published irregularly by: Ufology Research of Manitoba Box 1918 Winnipeg, Manitoba Canada R3C 3R2 The SGJ is also available on an experimental basis on internet by e-mail to: rutkows@ccu.umanitoba.ca 8.17: UFO Universe ------------------ GCR Plublishing Group, Inc. 1700 Broadway, 34th Floor New York, New York 10019 Publishes "UFO Universe" magazine. Global Communications Refer to: Inner Light Publications === UFO Book Publishers ----------------------- 9.00: Advent Publishing Company ------------------------------- P.O. Box 3748 Carson City, NV 89702 Publish book and the Phenox Project Reports. 9.02: Arnerica West Publishers ------------------------------ P.O. Box 6451 Tehachapi, California 93582 George Green Telephone Number : 805-822-9655 Publishes a wide variety of books and tapes dealing with New Age subjects and UFO phenomenon. 9.03: Arcturus Book Service --------------------------- 1443 S.E. Port St. Lucie Blvd. Port St. Lucie, Florida 34952, USA Robert Girard & Monica Williams-Girard Arcturus Book Service Catalog Maintains a listing of UFO-related books. Their goal is to provide a wide selection of books relating to the study of unexplained phenomena. Arcturus provides a publication; "Leading Edge, the bi-monthly newsletter of the Nevada Aerial Research Group. Subscriptions for monthly Arcturus Book Service Catalog available for $6.00 in the U.S., Canada, and Mexico; $12.00 in Europe and South America Arcturus pays for UFO-related books, manuscripts and is interested in being informed of all new titles released. 9.04: Condor Books, Inc. ------------------------ 351 West 54th Street New York, New York 10019 Al Weiss (Publisher) 212-586 -4432 Publishes numerous books dealing with the UFO phenomena. At one time, Condor Books published "UFO Universe" magazine;"UFO Universe" is now published by: GCR Publishing Group, Inc., 1700 Broadway, 34th Floor, New York, New York 10019. 9.05: Document Research Services -------------------------------- PO Box 10011 Berkeley, Ca. 94709-5011 They provide declassified govt. documents and an index of UFOs in the New York Times 1947-1987 Send SASE for a list of documents 9.06: Earth Star Publications ----------------------------- P.O. Box 117 Paonia, Colorado 81428 Ann Ulrich (Editor & Publisher) 303-527-3257 The Star Beacon A self-publishing service which will perforrn typesetting, layout, printing, and shipping of self-published books for a one-time fee. After initial fee is paid, the author keeps lOO% of any profits generated from the book. Ann Ulrich is associated with the UFO Contact Center International as one of its Associate Directors. 9.07: Eden Press ---------------- Box 399 Careywood, Idaho 83809 Desiree Eden 208-683-2439 The publishing arm of the Planetary Professional Citizens Committeee (PPCC), which is no longer in existence due to the death of its Director, Jerome Eden, in 1989. However, EDEN Press still pro- vides a wide range of books dealing with the UFO phenomenon. 9.08: JACO Book Publishers -------------------------- P.O. Box 3135 Prescott, Arizona 86302 John H. Andrews 602-778-0018 JACO Book Publishers provides many UFO and Extraterrestrial-related books. 9.09: The Library of the New Essenes of Inyo -------------------------------------------- P.O. Box 257 June Lake, California 93529 71448-7405 Nicholas Faust (Curator) Originally known as "The School of Thought" which had been started by Hope Troxell in 1960. It's original focus was UFO literature, especially that dealing with contactees. Hope Troxell died in 1979 and The School of Thought closed in 1980.In 1980 became The Library of the New Essenes of Inyo. It assumed Hope Troxell's UFO materials and continually added to it over the years. The Library also sells copies of Hope Troxell's published material. 9.10: Luna Ventures ------------------- P.O. Box 398 Suisun, California 94585 Publishes the Luna Ventures Catalog" which is a comprehensive listing of available newsletters, books, microfiche, magazines, etc. for sale. Luna Ventures will also accept manuscripts for publication. 9.11: The Pleiades Project -------------------------- P.O. Box 386 Atwood, Ca 92601 Randolph Winters :213-281-6282 Terra (Contact) Founded in: 1985 A one-man organization for the dissemination of the information received by Billy Meier from his Pleiadian contacts. Mr. Meier receives messages from his contacts of the Pleiades star formation. The Pleiades Project compiles these messages and offers them in audio and video formats. "Contact Terra" is a quarterly newsletter which contains updated information and news about Mr. Meier's contacts. The Meier Chronicles VHS/Beta - $59.00 (82 minutes) The Movie Footage VHS/Beta - $49.00 (1 hour) The Metal Analysis VHS/Beta - $39.00 each (45 minutes) The Entire Trilogy - $99.00 (save $188.00) Each audio cassette $20.00 plus postage & handling 9.12: UFO Audio-Video Clearing House ------------------------------------ P.O. Box 342 Yucaipa, Ca]ifornia 92399-0342 David Aaron (Director) 714-795-3361 Founded on May 18, 1988 and1232 members. Offers an updated listing of UFO radio & television programs on video and audio tape, going back to 1954. Video tapes are offered in Beta and VHS format. Over 50% of their available product is donated by members. 9.13: UFO Books --------------- P.O. Box 1053 - 514 First Street Florence, Arizona 85232 Christine (Stevens) Cox 602-868-4273 Christine Cox distributes UFO-related books, some of which were written and edited by Wendelle Stevens (See: UFO Photo Archives), who is her father. UFO Books also provides periodic flyers which contain UFO-related books, photos, and calendars for sale. 9.14: UFO Photo Archives ------------------------ P.O. Box 17206 Tucson, Arizona 85710 Wendelle C. Stevens UFO Journal Of Facts Offers UFO-related books, most of which concentrate on, and thoroughly investigate, individual cases. UFO Photo Archives gears its material for those who want more in-depth knowledge about individual cases instead of a broad overview of many cases. In addition to books, UFO Photo Archives also sells UFO calendars and posters. All books, posters, and calendars are sold through mail order only and must be prepaid, including postage. Their publication, "UFO Journal Of Facts" is a new magazine, filled with color pictures and reports, concentrating on factual UFO investigative reporting. 9:15: Worldwide UFO Newsclipping Bureau and Public Information Center 955 West ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- - Lancaster Road Suite 420 Orlando, Florida 32809 Provides a 16-20 page monthly report of worldwide UFO news clippings (all foreign news stories are translated into English). Subscription costs: $24.95 /6 months $47.50/ one year Special on Back Issues: all of 1988 for $39.95. Besides the newsclipping service, Worldwide UFO also offers UFO-related audio and video tapes (VHS format, approximately 2 hours in length) for sale at the following prices: Audio Tape - $ 4.00/ tape (buy two, get one free: no limit) Video Tape - $20.00/ tape (buy two, get one free: no limit) === Miscellaneous Information ----------------------------- 10.00: alt.alien.visitors archives (back issues) ------------------------------------------------ Occasionally I have seen requests for information on past articles in alt.alien.visitors. If you desire something, I have the entire newsgroup archive back to July 13, 1992. I access it frequently. I have no way to ftp it to another system for public access but would be glad to email portions of it upon request. The responses are not guaranteed to be correct or complete. You can email me at gvb@acd4.acd.com and I will do my best. gvb@TEFS1.acd.com (Gregg Brown) 10.01: A UFO Book List ------------------------------- I'd like to take this opportunity to remind people of my UFO bibliography file, and to solicit contributions and book comments for it. The file can be ftp'd from paul.rutgers.edu, directory pub/ufo, file bibliography.Z (compressed format). The file is organized by author, and also again by date-of-publication, and also includes Keith Rowell's excellent bibliography file (which is also worked into the above two parts). Many titles have comments from various people as to the value of the book; I would like any comments on any of the books from anyone, and also additional books for inclusion. Check out the UFO Bibliography that you can ftp at: paul.rutgers.edu The file is pub/UFO/bibliography.Z It has books by author, a second listing by date, and also the names of prominent authors in the field. For more information contact: mcgrew@dropout.rutgers.edu (Charles Mcgrew) 10.02: Big Foot (Sasquatch) --------------------------- Our research group is currently investigating reports and sightings of the animal known as "Bigfoot" or "Sasquatch". If you or somebody you know has had such a sighting, or come across what may be evidence supporting the existence of such an animal, please get in contact with us in one of the following formats: o Leave a private message in electronic mail: ai065@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Thomas Hill) o Call Thomas Hill at 216-362-6529. o Or write: Thomas E. Hill 16124 Richard Dr. Brook Park, OH 44142 Contact with us can be totally anonymous if you wish. We are especially interested in Ohio sightings but are by no means limited to investigations in that state. Please, serious responses only. 10.03: Free UFO Class --------------------- Penn State University has Free U classes that are offered to the public at no charge! They supply a classroom to those who wish to teach a subject and the public may attend them for free. One of the classes offered is a UFO class Organized and taught by Janet Smith, and Beth Combs. In the class they discuss every aspect of the UFO phenomenon such as the Billie Meier investigation, government cover-ups, Zecharia Sitchin who wrote the Earth Chronicles series, Mars probe, Mars Face and many other topics. The class also offers guest speakers who have done UFO research plus videos, movies and articles about various UFO phenomenon. The classes are held every Monday in room 207 of Sackett Building at Penn State University in State College, PA. The starting time is 7:00 pm, EDT (soon to be EST) and they ends sometime after 9:00 pm. The class will be held until December 7th. The class may continue after the holidays into next semester, but that depends on our level of interest. If someone has questions or would like to contribute to the group in some way, (ie. guest speakers, movies, different types of information, etc.) contact Janet Smith at JLS19@psuvm.psu.edu or write to her at: 123 Ramblewood Road, Pennsylvania Furnace, PA 16865. Home phone: (814) 237-6763, Work phone: (814) 863-0466. 10.04: Freedom of Information ----------------------------- In the US, you write to the agency you want to reach, addressed to the "Freedom of Information Officer". A list of agencies is available from the US Government Printing Office. Their order number is: 202-783-3238 The "US Government Manual" (1991/92), price $23 (they take MC/Visa orders over the phone). They will also send you a catalog of all manuals/documents available from the USGPO for free. Order at the same number. [I have more information on this, I will add it later.] Main Source: mcgrew@dropout.rutgers.edu (Charles Mcgrew) 10.05: Hidden Ancient Ruins --------------------------- The address is Mystic Mountain Adventures Dept. 100 11142 Manhattan Avnue, Ste. 43 Manhattan Beach, CA 90266 Ph# (310) 318-6567. 10.06: Inter Library Loans (ILL) -------------------------------- If you would like to research an the various UFO topics mentioned in this FAQ and you don't have a large bank account, go to your local library and ask about the Inter Library Loan System. The ILL lets you check out books, audio tapes, video tape, and get copies of magazine articles that your local library might not have. In many cases there is no charge for using ILL, this depend upon you local library. Almost all the book I have used to research this FAQ were ordered through ILL. Check it out. :-) 10.07: NASA Shuttle Footage --------------------------- NASA Select on Satcom 2, Transponder 13, carries the whole mission, live and anybody with a satellite dish can tune in. You can find the original uplink and shuttle audio on Transponder 5. This is the raw video with shuttle to ground audio communications on it. 10.08: UFO Related anonymous FTP Sites --------------------------------------- [Also See: 10.00: A Complete UFO Book List] phoenix UFO Pics ---------------- phoenix.oulu.fi (130.231.240.17) In /pub/ufo_and_space_pics NASA Pics Sites ---------------- NOTE: the material at these sites is exceedingly voluminous; I'd strongly suggest just getting the CD-ROMs instead of attempting to transfer scores of gigabytes of pix and other material. To access the online catalog of NASA material, CD-ROMS, et cetera: telnet nssdca.gsfc.nasa.gov login as "NODIS" no password Anonymous ftp sites (five): nssdca.gsfc.nasa.gov [128.183.10.4] This is a VAX/VMS box, so you must ftp-login as "anonymous". To get a dir listing into a file on your system: ftp> dir [...] file_on_your_system vab02.larc.nasa.gov lots of stuff, including Aliens of all colors, and UFO pix (though this seems to mirror a lot of what's at phoenix.oulu.fi and has some additional material). ames.arc.nasa.gov online copies of what appears to be all NASA's CD-ROMs, and lots of GIFs, *.img and *.jpg from most (all?) space missions since Apollo. iris1.ucis.dal.ca dunno; it appears to be down today (Saturday, 18-July-1992). ummts.cc.umich.edu | {changed to} | V archive.umich.edu apparently popular (and, hence, slow). Is supposed to have many NASA and Voyager data files. Main Source: thad@cup.portal.com (Thad Floryan) Bitnet: Fsdlk@alaska ( FAQ Part 2 of 4) Internet: Fsdlk@acad3.alaska.edu ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~ ........... ....... . . . ~ ~ . . . Nasha tai no kasei! . . ~ ~ ... ....... . . ~ ~ . . Prosperity and Long Life, To You. ~ ~ .... xisting . hantom . . ~ ~ . . ~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!rpi!batcomputer!reed!henson!news.u.washington.edu!raven.alaska.edu!news From: fxdlk@camelot.acf-lab.alaska.edu (A figment of your imagination) Subject: a.a.v. Frequently Asked Questions [Part 3 of 4] Message-ID: <1992Nov21.005943.17861@raven.alaska.edu> Keywords: FAQ Sender: news@raven.alaska.edu (USENET News System) Nntp-Posting-Host: cygnus.acf-lab.alaska.edu Organization: University of Alaska Computer Network Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 00:59:43 GMT Lines: 701 alt.alien.visitors Frequently Asked Questions This FAQ was last updated: 11/20/92 (New Additions: See 0.0: What's New) It currently takes up 143k (around 75 printed pages) in all Line width is about 75 char. (Part 3 of 4) === UFO Organizations ------------------ 11.00: Aerial Phenomenon Research: The Indiana Group ---------------------------------------------------- 18 Davis Drive Mt. Vernon, Indiana 47620 Francis L. Ridge (Director) 812-838-3120 / 812-838-9843 Publishers of : Indiana UFO Newsletter Founded in 1986 A statewide organization which attempts to immediately respond to UFO sightings 11.01: The Aetherius Society ---------------------------- 6202 Afton Place Hollywood, California 90028-8298 Detroit Branch 17670 West 12 Mile Road Southfield, Michigan 48076 313-552-9153 / 313-552-9159 Reverend Lesley Young (General Committeee) : 213~65-9652/ 213~67-HEAL (4325) Publishers of : The Aetherius Society Journal : Cosmic Voice Founded in 1960 The Hollywood, California office is the American headquarters for The Society which was founded in England in 1955. In the US, the Society was incorporated in 1960 as a non-profit religious, scientific, and educational organization. The Society is a metaphysical, channeling organization whose founder/president, Sir George King, is a Western Master of Yoga and who has been in contact with Extraterrestrial Intelligences for over 35 years. He acts as a channel for the dissemination of Higher Wisdom from These Sources. The Society's objective is to explain the presence of UFOs around the Earth and to make known knowledge given to their president by Advanced Beings who reside in this Solar System. This information is disseminated through books, pamphlets, cassettes and albums and two newsletters, "The Aetherius Society Journal" and "Cosmic Voice". Also, study courses in: "Metaphysical and Occult Sciences" and "Cosmic Revelations" to further spread the word and to explain the cosmic significance of messages received from the Advanced Beings. Regular meetings at the U.S. and England headquarters as well as by associated branches throughout the world. Prayer Circles are organized during a Spiritual Push (or Magnetization Period) at different holy mountain sites, when the giant Interplanetary Spacecraft is brought into Earth's orbit by a Cosmic Master. Helpers who attend these Power Circles send out the Spiritual energies from this Cosmic Master to help mankind. 11.02: Ancient Astronaut Society -------------------------------- 1921 St. Johns Avenue Highland Park, Illinois 60035-3105 Gene M. Phillips (Founder) :708-295-8899 Publication is Ancient Skies Founded in 1973. non-profit, tac-exempt organization operated for scientific, literary and educational purposes. The primary objectives of the Society are to search for evidence of whether Earth was visited in the remote past by intelligent beings from outer space and to determine whether a highly developed, technological civilization existed on Earth before our recorded history. The Society also provides complete study courses in: "Metaphysical and Occult Sciences" and "Cosmic Revelations" to explain the cosmic significance of messages received from Advanced Beings. 11.03: Ancient Truth Research Foundation ---------------------------------------- 6146 Eleanor Avenue #205 Los Angeles, California 90~036 Albert Rainey 213'464-5948 Publication is Cosmic Current News Interested in many New Age topics, including UFOs. 11.04: The Awareness Reserch Foundation, Inc. --------------------------------------------- DeSoto Square No. 29, 35 Ritter Road Hayesville, North Carolina 28904 Helen I. Hoag (Executive Director) 704-389-8672 New Age organization with many interests, including UFOs; investigates various metaphysical activities and issues findings through publication of various books. 11.05: Borderland Sciences Research Foundation (BSRF) ----------------------------------------------------- P.O. Box 429 Garberville, California 9544429 Contact : Tom Brown Telephone Number : 707-986-7211 Publication is : Journal of Borderland Research Founded in: 1945 Functions as clearinghouse, specializing in rare and unusual information. BSRF is an alternative scientific movement which deals with a variety of borderland subjects, including UFOs; a non-profit organization; its members are people who take an active interest in observing the physical, mental, and spiritual environment. In addition BSRF studies: Light & Color affects on people, Radionics, Dowsing, Free Energy, Orgone Energy, Hollow Earth Mysteries, Anomalies, Fortean Phenomena, Hypnosis, Photography of the Invisible, etc. and offers a catalog of available books, reports, and tapes. 11.06: BRITISH UFO RESEARCH ASSOCIATION (BUFORA) ------------------------------------------------ Commonly called BUFORA. It was formed in 1962 as a federation of eight regional UK UFO groups. These included the London UFO Research Organisation (LUFORO, founded in 1959) the largest UK group at the time and the British Flying Saucer Bureau (BFSB, founded in 1952) which was the oldest UK group. BUFORA publishes six issues per year of the A4 magazine UFO TIMES. Current annual membership subscription is 18 pounds sterling. Approx membership 500. Current senior officers include Stephen Gamble (Chairman) and John Spencer (Vice-chairman). Contact address : The Leys, 2c Leyton Road, Harpenden, Hertfordshire, AL5 2TL, Great Britain. Phone +44 (0) 582 763218. 11.07: California UFO --------------------- 1800 South Robertson Blvd Box 355 Los Angeles, California 90035 Vicki Cooper (Editor); Don Ecker (Researcher) Telephone Numbers : 213-273-9409 /818-951-1250 Publication : UFO Publishes the bi-monthly UFO" magazine. Additionally, this organization sponsors annual conferences which concentrate on a variety of UFO-related subjects. 11.08: Citizens Against UFO Secrecy (CAUS) ------------------------------------------ P.O. Box 218 c/o Mr. Lawrence Fawcett Coventry, Cormecticut 06238 [or] 471 Goose Lane Peter Gersten (Director) Coventry, Connecticut 06238 Lawrence Fawcett (Asst Director & Publisher) Barry Greenwood (Research Director & Editor) P.O.Box 176, Stoneham, MASS, 02180, USA Publication is : Just Cause Founded in : 1978 A non-profit organization to uncover all existing documentation relating to governrnent involvement in UFO investigations and research. To accomplish this, CAUS files numerous Freedom of Inforrnation Act (FOIA) lawsuits in an attempt to get the governrnent to release relevant documents.Their "Just Cause" quarterly newsletter carries events and provides updated UFO news from around the world. They published a book too -- "Clear Intent" 11.09: Committee for the Scientific Investigation of Claims of the Paranormal (CSICOP) ---------------------------------------------------- Refer to: The Skeptical Inquirer P.O. Box 229 Buffalo, New York 14215{)229 Paul Kurtz (Chairman - Skeptical Inquirer) Philip J. Klass (UFO Subcommittee) Lynda Harwood (Public Relations) 716-834-3222 716-834-0841 "The Skeptical Inquirer" is a non-profit, tax-exempt organization. CSICOP is headed by Paul Kurtz and investigates claims of the Paranorrnal, including UFOs and UFO-related activity.The committee's investigations, findings, commentaries, etc. are published in "The Skeptical Inquirern. 11.10: COMPUTER UFO NETWORK (CUFON) ----------------------------------- Bulletin Board system run by UFO Reporting and Information Service. Date of formation not known. Information director : Dale Goudie, SYSOP: Jim Klotz Based Seattle, Washington, USA. Board number +1 206 776 0382, parameters 300/1200/2400 bps 8 bit no parity 1 stop bit. 11.11: Contactee ---------------- P.O. Box 12 New Milford, New Jersey 07646 Ellen Crystall (Director) Studies UFOs by direct observation; quarterly newsletter, "Contactee" details activities.Tne primary goal of Contactee is to educate about world-wide contacts being made with UFOs and to disseminate information to all interested parties. Contactee also sells books and sponsors various conferences. Regular Member (those who claim to have had alien contact) and Auxiliary Member (those who do not claim UFO contact) membership fee is $20.00 per year and includes the newsletter. Contactee accepts articles for its newsletter. 11.12: Cosmic Awareness Communications -------------------------------------- P.O. Box 115 Olympia, Washington 98507 Vikki T. (Correspondence Secretary) Pulication is : Reveltions of Awareness A tax-exempt organization. Studies New Age subjects, including UFOs. This group is centered around the "channelings" of a "Force" which refers to itself as "Cosmic Awareness". CA believes that this "Force" has expressed itself through selected people in history including Jesus, the Buddha, Krishna, Mohammed, and Edgar Cayce, among others. Publication, "Revelations of Awareness, has published over 300 editions and details various New Age subjects. Subscribers receive a catalog listing all available back issues and subjects covered. Membership is $30.00 per year. Will accept memberships for three month periods ($3.00 per month), prepaid. Individual/Family $ 3.00/ month or $30.00/ year New Age-related (including UFOs) books and tapes available. 11.13: CSETI ------------ Dr. Steven Greer 704-274-5671 Asheville,N.C. 11.14: Delval UFO, Inc. ----------------------- 948 Almshouse Road Ivyland, Pennsylvania 18974 Anthony Volpe (President) 215-357-2909 Publication is the Awakening; the group was founded in 1973. A channeling, contactee UFO organization, founded in 1973.their publication "Awakening", is offered nine 9 times a year; they sell UFO-related books and tapes. 11.15: The Fair Witness Project, Inc. ------------------------------------- Parent Organization: William L. Moore Publications & Research 4219 West Olive Avenue Suite #247 Burbank, California 91505 213-463-0542 Publication is : Focus A non-profit corporation whose income is used to fund the research efforts of qualified persons selected by the Directors of the Fair Witness Project. They accept donations and will send an acknowledgement of that donation for tax purposes. 11.16: The Federation --------------------- The Federation is a group of people who feel it is high time we got off this rock and started exploring the great unknown of space. The Federation has drawn out in blue print form a drive system that is a a super semi conducting crystaline structure. To get more information on the Federation send a 3.5 floppy and they will place an info packet on it and send it back to you. You must have a mac that has 5.0 microsoftword or better.Send to this adrress: The Federation C/O Lady Rhavyn Po box 231772 Anchorage, Alaska 99523-1772 If you have any questions feel free to send to this account. ASLJL@ACAD2.ALASKA.EDU 11.17: Flying Saucer Information Center --------------------------------------- 7803 Ruanne Court Pasadena, Maryland 21122 James H. Wales : Update Founded in 1954 Acts as a clearing house for the distribution of UFO information to the general public. Laura Mundo began this organization in 1954. Group feels the Earth is in danger due to upcoming radical changes in the atmosphere (sunspot activity) and Space Beings are here to help. They will be able to either solve the problem or take selected Earth people to safe locations (inside their insulated spaceships) until the atmospheric activity calms down. When humans return to Earth after surviving the atmospheric instability, they will begin the Universal Way of Life, which is a standard way of life on other planets. Also believe Space People living on Earth today are to here to monitor us and help. 11.18: FORTEAN RESEARCH CENTER (FRC) ------------------------------------ This was founded in 1982 by Ray Boeche and deals with all aspects of Fortean Phenomena. The current Director is Scott Colbourn. The contact address for the Center is P.O.Box 94627, Lincoln, Nebraska, 68509, USA. The Center runs a Bulletin Board on +1 402 488 2587. 11.19: FUND FOR UFO RESEARCH (FUFOR) ------------------------------------ Formed in 1979, commonly called FUFOR. Not a membership organisation, but awards grants towards research activities. Funds raised primarily by donation. Chairman Bruce Macabee. Contact address : P.O. Box 277, Mount Rainer, Maryland, 20712, USA. 11.20: The Fund for UFO Research, Inc. -------------------------------------- P.O. Box 277 Mt. Rainier, Maryland 20712 Bruce Maccabee, PhD (Chairman) Publication is: Quarterly Report Founded in 1979 2000 Members A non-profit, tax-exempt organization based in Washington, D.. whose mission is to provide grants for scientific research and public education projects dealing with the UFO phenomenon. Since 1979 has raised more than $150,000.00 from more than 2000 contributors. Also sponsors and awards the annual Donald E. Keyhoe Journalism Award." The Fund sponsors such projects the release of U.S. Government documents concerning UFOs under the Freedom of Informatioon Act,computer-aided analysis of UFO photographs, research into major UFO sightings around the world, research into "Operation Majestic 12", psychological testing of people who reported being abducted by apparent aliens, international symposiums and conducts interviews and lectures. The Fund takes the position that many reported UFOs cannot be identified as conventional aerial vehicles or phenomena. Thus, UFO reports are potentially of enormous significance and merit serious scientific research. 11.21: Gulf Breeze Skywatch --------------------------- 904-433-2737 (Bruce and Ann Morrison) 11.22: Inner-Peace Prosperity Network (IPPN) -------------------------------------------- 12628 Black Saddle Lane Germntown, Maryland 20874-5001 Patrick O'Connell 301-972-1980 IPPN believes that extraterrestrials have already landed and established underground bases, mainly in the western and southwestern United States. "Trends & Predictions Analystn, is a compilation of UFO-related theories, news, and current events; newsletter (printed twice a year) also details available books, papers, and tapes for sale by IPPN. Membership rates: $ 4.00/ year (U.S. & Canada) $ 5 .00/ year (Foreign) $12.vO /3 years (IJ.S. & Canada) $15.00 / 3 years (Foreign) Membership includes the newsletter. IPPN also sells Name Lists of people who subscribe to New Age periodicals. IPPN gears the selling of these lists to those interested in selling New Age- related products. As of September 1990, the charge for these lists are: 1000 Narnes $20.00 2000 Names $40.00 3000 Narnes $60.00 IPPN also sells back-issues of "The New Atlantean Journaln, a defunct periodical dealing with New Age-related subjects, including UFOs. 11.23: Intercontinental UF Galactic Spacecraft-Research and Analytic Network (ICUFON) ------------------------------------------------------------ 35-40 75th Street Suite 4G Jackson Heights, New York 11372 Colman S. VonKeviczky (Director) 718-72-7948 A non-profit organization whose goal is to persuade the United Nations (and the world's governments) to establish an official World Authority for UFO Affairs (the WASA Project), to seek and establish contact with extraterrestrial galactic powers; maintains that the world's governments have known about UFOUs for several decades and that they are conducting covert warfare in an attempt to try to stop any invasion from outer space. ICUFON wants to open full dialogue with any and all extraterrestrial forces. ICUFON maintains an Archives Department which contains UFO cases, photographs, movie films, declassified military and governmental documentation from all over the world. 11.24: INTERNATIONAL COMMITTEE FOR UFO RESEARCH (ICUFOR) --------------------------------------------------------- Formed in 1979 as a UFOlogical 'United Nations'. The membership consists of representative organisations for various countries. Commonly called ICUR. Members include BUFORA (UK); Center for UFO Studies (USA); CISU (Italy); MUFON (USA); SUFOI (Denmark); Project UNICAT (USA) Project URD (Sweden); VUFORS (Australia). ICUR's objectives are to promote data exchange between groups and to help establish common standards and terminology. Officers are Chairman: Robert Digby (BUFORA, UK); Vice-Chairman: Walter Andrus (MUFON, USA); Secretary : Stephen Gamble (BUFORA, UK) and Treasurer : John Spencer (BUFORA, UK). Contact address is : P.O. Box 314, Penn, High Wycombe, Buckinghamshire, HP10 8DH, Great Britain. 11.25: Internationa1 Fortean Organization (INFO) ------------------------------------------------ P.O. Box 367 Arlington, VA 22210-0367 Raymond Manners (President & Journal Editor) Publication is INFO Journal Founded in 1965 by Ronald Willis A non-profit corporation established for the educational and scientific study of Fortean phenomena. INFO investigates the strange and unreasonable events that happen in this world, including UFOs, lost civilizations, physical anomalies, Atlantis, Bigfoot, vanished civilizations, etc. Today, INFO continues the work of Charles Fort to collect, record, and publish reports of strange occurrences. Their findings are published in the INFO Journal. INFO holds an annual convention, called FortFest, in the Washington D.C. area. Annual membership fee includes the "INFO Journal" is $12.00 in the U.S. and $16.00 for foreign countries. INFO maintains files on all of its investigations, cases, etc. Slides, books, and tapes are for sale and back issues of "INFO Journal" are also available. The INFO Research Service performs funded research for the media while the INFO Research Library is open to scholars. 11.26: INTRUDERS FOUNDATION ---------------------------- Organisation formed by abduction researcher Budd Hopkins to provide support and a forum for abductees to discuss their experiences. Contact address : PO Box 30233, New York, New York, 10011, USA. Phone and fax: +1 212-645-5278 11.27: Island Skywatch ---------------------- 164-22 77th Road Flushing, New York 11366 : Bill Knell (Director) 718-591-1854 (24-Hour Hotline) . The New York UFO Report : Island Publication is Skywatch Journal 1989 by Bill Knell A tax-exempt organization whose goal is the scientific and objective study of the UFO phenomenon. Membership ($25.00 per year) includes one year subscription to the "New York UFO Report" and the Island Skywatch Journal, one copy of "Hidden Truth: The UFO Story" (a two-hour video history about UFOs written by Bill Knell), the opportunity to attend free local meetings, free training as a UFO investigator, and the opportunity to investigate Island Skywatch cases.They offer a wide variety of books, audiotapes, video tapes, for sale. Bill Knell has cable TV UFO show "UFOs Over Long Island" on the Brookhaven Cable TV system every Thursday at 6:30 p.m. (channel 35).UFO Abductee Support Group offered as well. 11.28: J. ALLEN HYNEK CENTER FOR UFO STUDIES (CUFOS) ----------------------------------------------------- 2457 West Peterson Avenue Chicago, Illinois 60659 Contacts Mark Rodeghier (President) George Eberhart (Librarian & Archivist) 312-271-3611 Publications are : The Journal of UFO Studies and International UFO Reporter (IUR) Founded in 1973 by Dr. J. Allen Hynek A non-profit organization whose goal is to promote serious research into the UFO phenomena through the expertise of an international group of scientists, academians, and volunteers. This organization has a worldwide network of field investigators that interview witnesses, examine physical evidence and gather any other relevant information. The major purpose of CUFOS is to act as a clearinghouse - aplace where UFO experiences can be reported and researched. Dr. J. Allen Hynek, who was con- sidered one of the world's pre- eminent authorities on the UFO phenomenon, first became involved with UFOs as Scientific Consultant to the U.S. Air Force from 1948 to 1968, and was Scientific Director of CUFOS until his death in 1986. He coined the phrase "close encounters of the third kind" and acted as technical advisor to director Steven Spielberg on the movie of the same name. CUFOS maintains the world's largest repository of data about UFO phenomena, second only to the US Government! This material includes more than 50,000 cases of UFO sightings and a library of more than 5,000 books and magazines, which cover all aspects of the UFO phenomena. CUFOS promotes various activities, projects, publications, symposiums, conferences, seminars and field trips to various UFO-related locations and sells journals, books, audiocassette tapes, and other publications. The "International UFO Reporter (IUR)", published bi-monthly, reports on current sightings, news and articles on current UFO topics. CUFOS also publishes the annual "Journal of UFO Studies" which presents a collection of scholarly papers on the UFO phenomenon. A $25.00 contribution entitles a member to become an ASSOCIATE of CUFOS and to receive the "International UFO Reporter" for one year. The Center publishes the International UFO Reporter 11.29: The Massachusetts Center for the study of Aerial Phenomena ------------------------------------------------------------------ 43 Harrison Street Reading, Massachusetts 01867 Contact Jim Melesciuc 617-944 0686 A loose-knit organization comprised of researchers who wish to remain unaffiliated with any specific UFO group and concentrate efforts in individual fields of interest; many members do belong to other UFO groups, such as CAUS, MUFON, CUFOS, etc. 11.30: Multi-national Investigations Cooperative on Aerial Phenomena (MICAP) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Based in Denver, Colorado. Director is Micheal Corbin. They can be reached at +1 303-431-8796. P.O. Box 172, Wheat Ridge, CO 80034-0928 MICAP is an international membership group dedicated to the scientific exploration of the UFO phenomenon. Membership is $30.00 per year and includes a subscription to CONTINUUM. For application, call 303-431-8797, or write to MICAP at Box 172, Wheat Ridge, CO 80034-0172. 11.31: Mutual UFO Network, Inc. (MUFON) ---------------------------------------- 103 Oldtowne Road Seguin, Texas 78155099 Contact Telephone Number Publications Founded Number of Members Walter H, Andrus, Jr. 512-379-9216 Founded in May 31, 1969 with a membership of 2500 Originally based in Illinois it was called the Mid-west UFO Network, changing its name around 1972 to Mutual to represent its growing role as a national and international group. MUFON has local groups in each State within the USA and has representatives in many countries outside the USA. Current membership number is around 4000. MUFON publishes 12 issues per year of the A4 MUFON UFO Journal : MUFON Field Investigator's Manual. The annual membership fee is 25 US Dollars or 30 Dollars for overseas members. MUFON runs a bulletin board service, contact the office for details. MUFON is non-profit, international, scientific organization devoted to studying and researching the UFO phenomenon. MUFON sponsors and conducts worldwide conferences, seminars and symposiums. MUFON members believe that a concentrated scientific study by dedicated investigators and researchers will provide the ultimate answer to the UFO enigma. State Director oversees the activities of Field Investigators through State Section Directors. An International Co-ordinator and seven Continental Co-ordinators work with Foreign Representatives in each country to investigate UFO activity. MUFON is the "parent organization" for numerous, smaller UFO research groups across the United States and around the world. Since 1970 has sponsored an Annual International UFO Symposium where scientists, engineers, university professors, and authors lecture on their particular specialization to solving the UFO enigma. The copyrighted symposium proceedings are published annually for worldwide distribution. Back issues of symposium proceedings are available. Anyone interested is invited to join MUFON by submitting a membership application and dues for approval. Other MUFON Branches: New Zealand Director for MUFON, murrayb@kiwi.gen.nz (Murray Bott) PO Box 27117, Mt Roskill, Auckland 1030, New Zealand Phone: 64-9-6315825 11.32: Mutual UFO Network of North Carolina, Inc. (MUFON-NC) ------------------------------------------------------------ 602 Battleground Road Lincolnton, North Carolina 28092 George D. Fawcett (Staee Director) 704-735-5725 Founded in February 1, 1990; non-profit corporation whose goal is to investigate and research the UFO enigma. MUFON-NC accepts reports of sightings, visitations, etc. and will investigate those cases with the most merit. MUFON-NC holds quarterly meetings in North Carolina on the first Sunday of February, May, August and November on a rotating basis in different cities; meetings generally run from lpm until 6pm. To join: $10 self-addressed, stamped envelope with 45 cents postage to the above address; you get forms for both MUFON and MUFON- NC. Granville Angell (Treasurer) Robert H. Hair Route 2, Box 252D Vale, 314 Wilson Street North Carolina 28168 Eden, North Carolina 27288 704-462-2303 919-627-4184 11.33: National Investigations Committeee on UFOs (NICUFO) --------------------------------------------------------- 14617 Victory Blvd Suite 4 P.O. Box 5 Van Nuys, California 91411 Dr. Frank E. Stranges, PhD. (President) 818-989-5942 Publishes the UFO Journal : Inter-Space-Link-Confidential NL Founded in July 1967 A non-profit organization whose aim is to conduct research into, and provide education about, the fields of UFOs, Space, and Science phenomena. Members are available to provide lectures throughout the world. Monthly meetings, as well as two UFO seminars per year, are held at NICUFO headquarters in Van Nuys, California. One of the world's largest collections of UFO slides, books and tapes. For more information materials write: I.E.C. Book Department, P.O. Box 73, VVan Nuys, California 91408. Anyone interested in becoming a State Director should contact NICUFO. Annual membership fees are $25.00 ($30.00 foreign) and includes a subscription to the UFO Journal magazine, which is a quarterly publication. Also available is the Inter-Space-Link- Confidential-Newsletter for $60.00 per year. Based upon their experience, members may serve in one of the following positions: Consultant, State or Provincial Director, State Section Director, Foreign Representative, Field Investigator, Research Specialist, Amateur Radio Operator, Astronomer, Field Investigator Trainee, Translator, UFO News Clipping Service, Contributing Subscriber or Associate Member (under 18 years of age). MUFON trains its Field Investigators and provides them with the "MUFON Field Investigator's Manual". Amateur Radio Networks are used to receive and disseminate UFO sighting reports and current UFO information. The time and frequencies of these broadcasts are published in the "MUFON UFO Journal." 11.34: The National Sighting Research Center (NSRC) --------------------------------------------------- P.O. Box 76 Emerson, New Jersey 07630 Bob Sylvester (Co Director) Publishes the National Sighting Yearbook since 1988. A non-profit organization composed of 6 part-time research specialists with expertise in microcomputer-based data base management systems (DBMS), statistical analysis, micro telecommunications, and trend analysis. The NSRC acts as an information- gathering organization which compiles massive amounts of data and disseminates it in the form of computerized reports, including information in statistical and graphical form. The goals of NSRC are to provide the professional UFO investigator or researcher with a computerized, highly graphical database summary of all reported sightings of anomalous aerial phenomena within the United States and a clearinghouse for UFO sighting report data; periodically release other publications, in-depth reports requested by other researchers and organizations. 11.35: Nevada Aerial Research Group (NARG) ------------------------------------------ P.O. Box 81407 Las Vegas, Nevada 8918G-1407 Val Valerian Publishes the Leading Edge : NARG AMual Journal A worldwide, New Age organization with researchers and investigators 12 countries and 37 states. The primary goals of NARG are to provide information on developments in our civilization which affect all of this planet, to investigate all processes that impede evolution, and promote an increase in the awareness level of the mass human consciousness. The NARG investigates, radionics, psycotronics, mind control, alien interaction, gravitational and crystalline technologies, overt and covert intelligence operations, systems above and below the surface of the planet, conspiracies, advances in physics, planetary power structures, foreign technology, brain machines, implant technology, human abductions and animal mutilations. Leading Edge is only available from Arcturus Book Service, PO Box 831383, Stone Mountain, Georgia 30083-0023, 404-297-4624. Published 6 times a year.This is the source of the MATRIX materials. NI: New Zealand UFO Studies Centre ---------------------------------- New Zealand UFO Studies Centre Director: Dr J F De Bock (Phd) 136 Brooklands Road New Plymouth New Zealand Telephone: 64 6 7533968 11.36: North American Circle ----------------------------- PO Box 61144, Durham, NC 27715-1144 11.37: North American Institute for Crop Circle Research (NAICCR) ------------------------------------------------------------------ NAICCR was formed in 1990 after requests for information about North American crop circles had reached epidemic proportions. UFOROM associates, who had been regularly investigating reports and discoveries of UGMs (Unusual Ground Markings), including traces very similar to crop circles, responded to inquiries by formalising a sister group devoted to research into UGMs. NAICCR associates investigate UGMs rationally, and prepare reports on their findings. NAICCR distributes a list of known North American UGMs, based on information provided to NAICCR by co-operative researchers throughout the continent. A comparable list of British UGMs has never been available in this manner. NAICCR also publishes an annual report of North American UGM activity, with analyses and commentary. NAICCR will continue to function in the future at about the present level of activity, though it would be preferred if UGM cases would once again be studied as special cases of UFO cases, as was the case before tthat category of UGMs was raised to a separate category because of British research. NAICCR may perhaps merge back with UFOROM, if this is the case, since UFOROM had been investigating UGMs as a matter of course. NAICCR NAICCR Box 1918 [or] 649 Silverstone Avenue Winnipeg, Manitoba Winnipeg, Manitoba Canada R3C 3R2 R3T 2V8, Canada. 11.38: Northamptonshire UFO Research Centre (NUFORC) ---------------------------------------------------- This is a local group covering the county of Northamptonshire within England. Common name is NUFORC. Formed in 1986. Number of members about 20. Chief officers are Stephen Gamble (Chairman); Susan Pollock (Secretary) and Elsie Oakensen (Treasurer). Contact address : 30 Stonebridge Court, Lings, Northampton, Northamptonshire, England. 11.39: NORTHERN UFO NETWORK (NUFON) ----------------------------------- Formed in 1973, the Northern UFO Network or NUFON was a loose federation of local UFO groups throughout northern England. At the peak about 20 groups were members. A small newsletter called Northern UFO News was published by the group. Although the federation of groups no longer exists, Northern UFO News is still published by Jenny Randles. Bitnet: Fsdlk@alaska ( FAQ Part 3 of 4) Internet: Fsdlk@acad3.alaska.edu ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~ ........... ....... . . . ~ ~ . . . Nasha tai no kasei! . . ~ ~ ... ....... . . ~ ~ . . Prosperity and Long Life, To You. ~ ~ .... xisting . hantom . . ~ ~ . . ~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!rpi!batcomputer!reed!henson!news.u.washington.edu!raven.alaska.edu!news From: fxdlk@camelot.acf-lab.alaska.edu (A figment of your imagination) Subject: a.a.v. Frequently Asked Questions [Part 4 of 4] Message-ID: <1992Nov21.010043.17947@raven.alaska.edu> Keywords: FAQ Sender: news@raven.alaska.edu (USENET News System) Nntp-Posting-Host: cygnus.acf-lab.alaska.edu Organization: University of Alaska Computer Network Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 01:00:43 GMT Lines: 709 alt.alien.visitors Frequently Asked Questions This FAQ was last updated: 11/20/92 (New Additions: See 0.0: What's New) It currently takes up 143k (around 75 printed pages) in all Line width is about 75 char. (Part 4 of 4) 11.40: Omega Communications ---------------------------- P.O. Box 2051 Cheshire, Connecticut 06410 John W. White, M.A.T. (President) Sponsors public events (seminars, lectures, symposiums, etc) to promote discussion about the UFO experience. Since 1987, Omega Communications has produced an annual symposium, "The UFO Experience" where numerous researchers and contactees are invited to talk. These proceedings are published in audio and video format available for sale. Audio and videotapes of previous conferences are available. Audio tapes are $9.00 each while videotapes are $29.95 each . Each tape is approximately 90 minutes in length. Video tapes are available only in VHS format. 11.41: ParaNet (Paranormal Network) Information Service ------------------------------------------------------- ParaNet Information Service P.O. Box 172 Wheat Ridge, CO 80034-0172 Voice Phone - 303-431-8796 Data BBS Phone - 303-431-8797 Publication is The Continuum : Founded in 1986 History ParaNet started on January 1, 1986 in a bulletin-board system called "The Other Side" It was one of the first BBS that gathered together various information for the pourpous of research on the paranormal. Jim Speiser was the Director of ParaNet 1986-88 at the time and wanted to bring together the three factions of paranormal debate (the skeptics, the believers, and the undecided) for public discussion of paranormal. He created ParaNet as neutral ground for the exchange of information on the paranormal.In 1988 Speiser turned over the directorship to Michael Corbin. Current Status ParaNet's basic goles are reflected in its motto: "Answering Questions, Questioning Answers". ParaNet offers investigator's raw material, in the form of sighting reports, which comes from data supplied by the public. The network concept provides the investigators and its users with immediate, one-on-one contact, and instant access to a global communications medium. ParNet also keeps it users informed major, fast-breaking stories involving the paranormal. ParaNet can be accessed in six countries on three continents. The People of ParaNet ParaNet provides access to experts through their electronic system. Its research branch is headed by Robert B. Klinn, a veteran investigator who worked for the late Dr. J. Allen Hynek. ParaNet also provides a conference on the UFO abduction experience hosted by Dr. David Jacobs, a UFO historian and author. Many different groups and researchers of the paranormal use Parenet for information exchange and discussion of ideas. Among some of them are the Bay Area Skeptics, the South Shore Skeptics, Marge Christenson, T. Scott Crain, Dan Drasin, Stan Gordon, Barry Greenwood, Budd Hopkins, Linda Howe, Phil Imbrogno, Dr. David Jacobs, Dr. Donald Johnson, Philip Klass, Bruce Maccabee, Maj. James McGaha, Dr. Mark Rodeghier, Robert Schaeffer, Tracy Torme, and Dr. David Webb, Don Ecker, Vicki Cooper and and many others. The Future of ParaNet In the future ParaNet plans to expan their network to even more cournties, increasing public education and scientific-oriented research and investigation unequaled in the field. Their focus will be directed at bringing various credible existing organizations from around the world into a better orgonized research effort. ParaNet will also turn its attention to more investigative reporting. Paranet plans to acomplish this unser their new organization known as MICAP (Multi-national Investigations Cooperative on Aerial Phenomena). (see MICAP) MICAP will be a separate non-profit research/educational vehicle with investigative ability. Publications: CONTINUUM is a publication put out quarterly by ParaNet It costs $18.00 per year.It is a very informative and diverse publication. Internet Mailings: To get the current postings from ParaNet send a mail message to: infopara-request@scicom.alphacdc.com with the word "Subscribe" in the subject line. Information about ParaNet and MICAP can be obtained by phoning 303-431-8796, or by writing to them at P.O. Box 172, Wheat Ridge, CO 80034-0172. To access ParaNet via computer and modem, call 303-431-8797 and you will be guided through the registration process and be given choices of which level of membership you wish to acquire. ParaNet's files are available on floppy disks or hard copy. Their catalog is available for $10.00 and contains a full listing of all available files, books, and videos. Contact Michael Corbin at: ParaNet Information Service P.O. Box 172 Wheat Ridge, CO 80034-0172 11.42: Pennsylvania Association for the Study of the Unexplained (PASU) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- 6 Oakhill Avenue Greensburg, Pennsylvania 15601 Stan Gordon (Director) 412-838-7768 PASU Data Exchange Founded in 1981 A volunteer, non-profit scientific research unit conducts investigations of strange or unusual occurrences, with emphasis on UFOs and UFO-related activity. PASU members donate their time and equipment. PASU is a statewide clearinghouse for reports of UFO sightings and is comprised of individuals with training or experience in the fields of science, engineering, technology or medicine who act as field investigators. Monthly meetings are held to share information. PASU has on file thousands of cases from Pennsylvania that include UFO sightings, creature reports, unusual animal killings, unexplained photographs and other anomalies. PASU attempts to send field investigators directly to the scene of an occurrence to gather information and interview witnesses. The "PASU Data Exchange" newsletter contains information regarding investigations conducted into unusual incidents that have occurred in Penn. 11.43: PNET ------------ Based in Melbourne, Australia. Bulletin board system, echos some Paranet material. Sysop : Brian Evans, contact Brian by Internet mail for information: bevans@tanus.cec.edu.au 11.44: The Portland UFO Group (PUFOG) ------------------------------------- P.O. Box 998 Wilsonville, OR 97070 Jennifer Brown - Jacobs (Director) 503-538-0836 PUFOG Newsletter Founded in 1989 500 Members A non-profit UFO organization whose monthly seminars are open to the general public; maintain no membership and are unaffiliated with any other UFO organization. PUFOG is an information group that conducts seminars on the 3rd Sunday of each month at Mt. Hood Community College, Gresham, OR. These seminars present knowledgeable speakers on UFOs and related subjects. Those who attend their seminars pay an admission fee and receive the PUFOG newsletter. 11.45: Roundtown UFO Society ----------------------------- Roundtown UFO Society, PO Box 52, Circleville, Ohio 43113 Multi-national 11.46: Royal Priest Research ---------------------------- P.O. Box 10546 Sedona, Arizona 86336 Lyssa Royal 602-282-320S Publication is: The Prism Founded in 1975, an independent research group with no members. Lyssa Royal mixes generally- accepted research techniques skills with less provable methods, such as channeling. Thus far, their research has produced two books, "The Prism of Lyra - An Exploration of Human Galactic Heritage" (130 pages) and "Visitors From Within" (171 pages). Lyssa Royal organizes and conducts weekly sessions, private consultations, and special events. She offers tapes of her numerous channeling sessions which discuss various topics and extraterrestrial beings both physical and nonphysical. Each tape is 90 minutes and $12.00; complete set (9 tapes) is $75.00. "The Prism" is periodic newsletter which details news, list of recent channeling tapes, books, etc. 11.47: The Search for EXtraterrestrial Intelligence --------------------------------------------------- NASA HEADQUARTERS, WASHINGTON, D.C. Office of Space Science and Applications Michael Braukus (Phone: 202/358-1547) Ames Research Center, Mountain View, Calif. Michael Mewhinney (Phone: 415/604-9000) Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif. Mary Hardin (Phone: 818/354-5011) 11.48: Sirian Rainbow Lodge --------------------------- P.O. Box 2108 St. Petersburg, Florida 33731 Liah GoldenHawk (Co Founder) L. Baird (Bookkeeper) 813-822-8154 Pulbication is Solar Trek; founded in 1990. Primarily an extraterrestrial outpost program, provides information from the alien point of view. The Sirian Rainbow Lodge is the StarSystem Sirian Outpost; interested in sharing all types of positive ET Alien knowledge. ET & UFO Network where Contactees and others may share eexperiences, contacts and opinions. Focuses on believing and possibilities, rather than proving any theories; focuses mainly on occupants of UFOs and alien knowledge. The Lodge is led by the Bennu who is an alien of the Nordic type from StarSystem Sirius. To raise money, the Lodge sells books and booklets by the Bennu and "Solar Trek", the ET Alien Quarterly Journal. 11.49: SKYNET -------------- 257 Sycamore Glen Pasadena, California 91105 Ann Druffel (Project Co Ordinator) 213-256-8655 Publication is Skynet Guides; Founded in1965; 50 - 100 members. Established to serve as a tracking system for UFO reports in the Los Angeles, California area. Its original purpose was to receive UFO reports at the time that witnesses were viewing the objects, thus centering their efforts on real-time viewing, photographing, monitoring, rather than relying on after-the-fact analysis. Upon joining, members agree to contact other SKYNET members whenever an unusual sighting is occurring for members to view, photograph and monitor the object in real-time while not having to wait for an after-the-fact presentation. This contacting of other SKYnet members that a sighting is occurring is the only obligation of members. All calls from the public receive an in-depth phone interview by an assigned SKYNET official and if warranted, further field investigations are conducted. 11.50: SOCIE'TE' BELGE d'ETUDE des PHENOMENES SPATIAUX (SOBEPS) --------------------------------------------------------------- Commonly called SOBEPS and the leading group in Belgium. Senior Officers : President : Michel Bougard, Secretary : Lucien Clerebaut. Contact address 74 Avenue Paul Janson, B-1070, Bruxelles, Belgium. 11.51: Society for Scientific Exploration (SSE) ----------------------------------------------- Office of the Secretary P.O. Box 3818, University Station Charlottesville, Virginia 22903-0818 Laurence W. Fredrick (Secretary) 804-924-4905 : 804-924-3104 Publishes the Journal of Scientific Exploration and The Explorer . Established in 1982. A tax-exempt group that investigates various anomalies, including UFOs. Although its president Professor Peter Sturrock of Stanford University, all contact with SSE should be made through Laurence W. Fredrick. The goal of the SSE is to gain further understanding of anomalous phenomena (including UFOs) and to share this knowledge with the public. The Society considers anomalous phenomena to be incidents that appear to contradict existing scientific knowledge; regarded by the scientific community as being outside their established fields of inquiry. They use the "Journal of Scientific Exploration" as an avenue to discuss anomalous phenomena and present research results to the scientific and scholarly community; its members are drawn from practitioners of science who have acquired a first-hand knowledge and understanding of the scientific process. The Society holds annual international meetings and periodically scheduled regional meetings. To promote co-operation, and to accommodate other levels of activity and interest, the Society has created the categories of "Corresponding Member" and "Associate". "Associates" receive the "Journal of Scientific Exploration" (two issues a year) and "The Explorer" (two issues a year). An Associate may submit letters and other items for publication in the Newsletter, may submit articles for publication in the Journal (each article must be sponsored by a "Full Member"), and may attend Society meetings by arrangement with a "Full Member". A person wishing to become an "Associate" may do so by completing an Application Form and sending it with a check for the annual dues to the Secretary. "Full Membership" is reserved for those associated with major universities, government entities or corporate research institutions who have an established reputation in a traditional branch of science. "Emeritus Membership" provides the privileges of Full Membership to similarly qua]ified retirees at a lower annual rate. "Student Membership" is limited to graduate students enrolled in academic institutions. "Corresponding Membership" is open to members of designated organizations. A "Corresponding Member" receives, and is entitled to submit articles to the "Journa] of Scientific Exploration". 11.52: The Societv for the Investigation of the Unexplained (SITU) ------------------------------------------------------------------ P.O. Box 265 Little Silver, New Jersey 07739 Nancy Warth (Membership Secretary) 201-842-5229 Publication is Pursuit Founded in 1965 by Ivan T. Sanderson A non-profit, tax-exempt organization; collects data on unexplained events, promotes proper investigation of both individua] reports and general subjects, and reports significant data to its members. SITU studies unexplained events that orthodox science does not (or will not) investigate. SITU maintains reference files which include original reports, newspaper and other clipping correspondence, audio tapes, films, photographs, drawings, maps, etc. Copies of these items a available to members only. Membership fees include the magazine "Pursuit", which is published regularly. 11.53: System Ready ------------------- 7154 North University Drive Suite 116 Tarnarac, Florida 33321 Concentrates on building devices which can be used to detect UFOs. Their book, "Detecting UFOs" details these devices. 11.54: Transcendental Communications A Division of LAMAT Research ----------------------------------------------------------------- 444 North Amelia #9C San Dimas, California 91773 Don Grantharn (Director & Systems Operator) 714-599-6769 : 714-599-6270 (Operates at 300/1200/2400 BPS) : 714-599-5045 Transcendental Communications Newsletter A scientific, investigative organization interested in UFOs and related phenomena. Transcendental Communications is the largest UFO-related computer network bulletin board system (BBS) on the west coast. The aim of Transcendental Comrnunications is to get the word out to those interested in current UFO information; a clearinghouse for books, documents, publications, audio ar video tape interviews, seminars, documentaries and UFO films and footage. The main focus of Transcendental Communications is the operation of a BBS through which interested parties can participate in on-line conversation. read various reports, news items or articles, or leave messages for other members. Transcendental Communications publishes the "Transcendental Communications Newsletter" which outlines topics that have been discussed on the BBS and provides current UFO-related articles. FAX number available so that interested parties can send them copies of reports, inforrnation, etc. Basic Member Dues $13.50 System Member $39.50 Full Member $49.50 Newsletter for one year; list of publications, audio and video tapes; six months BBS access 11.55: UFO Contact Center International (UFOCCI) ------------------------------------------------ 3001 South 288th Street #304 Federal Way, Washington 98003 Aileen Bringle (Director) 206-946-2248 The Missing Link June 1981 A non-profit organization dedicated to helping people who have had traumatic, bizarre experiences or sightings of UFOs. A secondary goal of UFOCCI is to promote public awareness of the UFO contactee phenomenon. UFOCCI works with each contactee to help them understand their experiences via hypnosis, group meetings and open seminars. Each year, over the Labor Day weekend, UFOCCI conducts a conference called "Jorpah" (which means 'Cosmic Gathering') in which the past year's activities are summed up and discussed. These gatherings are held at different places throughout the country. The date and time of these conferences are announced in The "Missing Link" newsletter. UFOCCI holds monthly meetings the fourth Saturday of each month. Associate Directors (by State and Canada): Ak Thomas Wilson 845 West 70th Anchorage, Alaska 99518 ph:907-522-3 172 Az Helene CharboMeau P.O. Box 1369 Safford, AZ 85548-1369 ph:602-428-6437 Ray Jordan 3831 North Paradise Road Flagstaff, AZ 86004 ph:602-774-6334 Tom Dongo Box 2571 Sedona, AZ 86336 ph:602-282-562 1 Ca Mark Andrews 811 Victoria Costa Mesa, CA 92627 ph:714-645-7046 Michael & DoMa Farrner 123 Henshaw #402 Chico, CA 95926 ph:916-894-3327 Ron Rodriquez 3948 Berrywood Santa Maria, CA 93455 ph:805-937-8050 Allen Drake 13222 Louvre Street Pacoima, CA 91331 ph:818-896-3572 Robert Shiepe 2865 Corning Street Los Angeles, CA 90034 ph:213-836-8362 Co Jackie Blue P.O. Box 1015 Paonia, CO 81428 ph:303-527-4412 AM Ulrich P.O. Box 117 Paonia, CO 81428 ph:303-527-3257 De Cary Dickey P.O. Box 5535 Wilmington, Delaware 19808 ph:302-994-7509 Il Carolyn Baum-Hawtree 1732 New Lenox Road Joliet, llinois 60433 ph:815-726-1756 Io Jason Hooten 525 Avenue D Fort Madison, Iowa 52627 ph:319-372-5558 Ma Robert Poutenis Route 9 Box 586 Pownal, Maine 04069 Md Patrick O'Connell 12628 Black Saddle Lane Germantown, Maryland 20874 ph:301-972-1980 Mo Barbara Becker 6219 Enright Avenue St. Louis, Missouri 63130 Claudia Sanderson-Jones 606 N.E. 114th Street Kansas City, Missouri 64155 ph:816-734-9000 Ne Kristy Buckles 3701 NW Conifer Court Lincoln 68521 ph:402-489-3 162 Nv Valdemar Valerian P.O. Box 81407 Las Vegas, NV 89180-1407 ph:702-878-4380 Nj Linda Dudar 20 Jackson Avenue Washington 07882 ph:201-689-7144 Maryellen Kelly P.O. Box 1874 Champaign 61820 ph:217-359-9343 Katie Sandberg Route 4 Box 1065-42 West Plains 65775 ph:417-256-0945 Nm Mary Ellen Masters 504 Kiva Avenue Aztec 87410 ph:505-334-9841 Cliff Stone 1421 East Tilden Roswell 88201 505-625-0920 Pennsylvania: Terri Shupenko 731 East 10th Street Erie 16503 Dennis Viglo 326 College Street Youngsville 16371 814-563-4322 Tennessee: Herrnan L. Langley P.O. Box 422 Smyrna 37167 615-459-0165 Brent Raynes 326 Haggard Street Waynesboro 38485 615-722-5976 Tx Anne Bower 815 Peach Spring Houston 77088 713-931-0930 Harv Howard P.O. Box 904 Manchaca 78652 5 12-282-203 1 Judy Stryker 3409 Ruth Road Fort Worth 76118 Sunshine Williams P.O. Box 162485 Austin 78716 Donna Brown P.O. Box 337 Vidor 77670-0337 409-769-5828 Goldie King P.O. Box 4455 Pasadena 77501 713-475-2785 Donna Tietze P.O. Box 260 Friendswood 77546-0260 713-482-8641 Ut Kaye Studstrup 2114 East 6805 South Salt Lake City 84121 Wa Lozanna Elwood 3001 South 288th #304 Federal Way, 98003 ph:206-946-2248 Jarnes C. Van Avery 6226 110th Avenue N.E. Kirkland 98033 ph:206-889-2026 Wisconsin: Linda Houston N7576 Timber Drive, Rib Lake 54470 ph:801 -263-2551 Dr. Robert & Felicia Moore P.O. Box 825 Marshfield 54449 715-387-4639 Wy Sheri Gould 705 South Burritt, Buffalo 82834 307-684-2755 Canada: Shirle Klein Carsh 6973 -129th Street Surrey, B.C. V3W 9A9 604-597-5822 ?? Bill Hamilton III 249 North Brand Blvd Suite 651 Glendale 91203 Ph:818-547-6935 Heidi Duval & Henrietta Raines P.O. Box 12 Crested Butte 81224 11.56: UFO Fllter Center ------------------------ 618 Davis Drive Mount Vernon, Indiana 47620 Neil Gilchrist P.O. Box 764 Nelson, B.C. VlL 5R4 604-825-9292 Francis L. Ridge (Director) : 812-838-3120 / 812-838-9843 Publication is: UFO Intelligence Summary and was founded in 1971 A one-man effort which investigates UFO activity, mainly in the Indiana area. The goals of this group are to conduct a systematic computer study of UFO data from a six-state region: Indiana, Illinois, Missouri, Ohio, Kentucky, and Tennessee; this study covers sightings beginning before 1947 to the present. 11.57: UFO Information Retrieval Center (UFOIRC) ------------------------------------------------ 3131 West Cochise Drive #158 Phoenix, Arizona 85051-9501 Thomas M. Olsen (President) 602-997-1523 : 602-870-3178 Publication is: Reference for Outstanding UFO Sighting Reports Founded in: 1966 A non-membership organization which collects, analyzes, publishes and disseminates information about UFOs. UFOIRC also compiles statistics, conducts research programs, sponsors photo exhibits, maintains a 200-volume Library, and provides special educational services geared to children and students. UFOIRC publishes books, symposium proceedings, reprints of magazine articles, and a bibliography of currently available information on the UFO phenomenon. 11.58: UFO Investigators League -------------------------------- Box 753 New Brunswick, New Jersey 08903 Timothy Green Beckley Publishes: UFO Spotters Newsletter Started in 1990 A new organization under the auspices of Timothy Green Beckley who is striving to expand his international network of investigators who wish to investigate UFO cases in their areas. Members receive membership card. investigators certificate, field manual, and a subscription to the "UFO Spotters Newsletter". Membership is $20.00 per year. 11.59: THE UFO, PARANORMAL AND CONSPIRACY BBS --------------------------------------------- Internet Contact: elite@igc.apc.org (Elite Enterprises) Modem: 312/604-8161 (24 HOURS) 11.60: UFO REPORTING AND INFORMATION SERVICE (UFORIS) ---------------------------------------------- Information Director : Dale Goudie. Contact address : P.O. Box 832, Mercer Island, WA, 98040, USA. see also Computer UFO Network. Phone (voice) +1 206 721 5035 NI: UFO Research Australia -------------------------- UFO Research Australia PO BOX 2435, CAIRNS QLD 4870 AUSTRALIA Administrator: Vladimir Godic Research Director: Keith Basterfield Secretary: Pony Godic UFORA operate as a network of interested persons and groups, in al Australian States, sharing the information they acquire. Vladimir Godic co-ordinates general network administration and Keith Basterfield overall research. The aims of the network are: (A) To stimulate Australian research into the UFO phenomenon, on a without prejudice basis, in order to better unerstand the causes(s) of the phenomenon. (B) To aid research by promoting co-operation between interested parties. The philosophy of the network can be best summarised by the term "Middle of the Road". It is neither a collection of "avid believers" nor "confirmed sceptics". Since its inception the network has consistently argued that the UFO phenomenon is of interest to science, that it is amenable to study following scientific method, and that valuable information may be gained irrespective of the ultimate cause of the phenomenon. Results of research are published via a bi-monthly Research Digest, a periodical Journal, documents, catalogues and articles in a number of leading overseas UFO journals. There is no open membership of the network. However, individuals seriously interested in the UFO phenomenon are invited to contact UFORA. 11.61: UFO Study Group of Greater St. Louis ------------------------------------ P.O. Box 31544 St. Louis, Missouri 63131 John Schroeder (President) Helen Hanke (Secretary) 314-352-3058 Publishes the The UFO Enigma. A non-profit organization formed in 1968 to investigate UFOs and to collect and disseminate information germane to the UFO phenomena. They hold meetings at the Farm and Home building, 110 West Lockwood (at Gore), Webster Groves, Missouri at 2:00 p.m. on the second Sunday of the months September through May. This group operates in close cooperation with MUFON, CUFOS, and with numerous organizations around the world in order to coordinate UFO research and information. 11.62: Ufology Research of Manitoba (UFOROM) -------------------------------------------- UFOROM is a private, non-profit and volunteer organisation which is involved in rational discourse, investigation and research on UFOs and related phenomena. It was formed in 1975. All types of UFO-related phenomena have been studied by UFOROM, including traces, crash-retrievals, abductions and cattle mutilations. In addition, some UFOROM associates also study fortean and psychic phenomena. UFOROM publishes an annual survey of UFO activity in Canada, comparable to the Ferrughelli reports on American cases. Case data is provided by co-operative Canadian researchers across Canada. UFOROM is not open to general public membership. However, independent investigators and researchers throughout North America and particularly in Canada are associated with UFOROM by way of their contributions of case information and data from their own areas. Such contributions are welcomed and readily acknowledged by UFOROM. Although UFOROM does not publish a journal or newsletter for general distribution, associates frequently exchange information on an informal basis. This information is made available through articles and reports published in UFO magazines or books, written or edited by UFOROM associates. UFOROM is associated with an irregular ufozine titled the SWAMP GAS JOURNAL. [See UFO Publications section] It is available in hard copy through zine exchange or for a "cost" of one International Postal Reply Coupon per issue. As an experiment, the most recent issue also has been made available in electronic format via INTERNET by posting a request to: rutkows@ccu.umanitoba.ca UFOROM associates are involved with the J. Allen Hynek Center for UFO Studies (CUFOS), the Mutual UFO Network (MUFON) and various other organisations. UFOROM functions independently, but operates with an understanding of complete co-operation and information exchange with interested and serious researchers in their specialised areas of interest. UFOROM is devoted to the rational and objective study of UFOs and related phenomena, as well as other controversial phenomena such as crop circles. All views on these phenomena, including both proponent and contrary standpoints, are considered. In this regard, UFOROM associates tend to engage in dialogue with both "believers" and "debunkers". It is hoped that such attempts to "bridge the gap" between the two sides of the debate will encourage more constructive discourse. Correspondence for UFOROM can be snailmailed to: UFOROM Box 1918 Winnipeg, Manitoba Canada R3C 3R2 11.63: United Aerial Phenomena Agency (UAPA) ------------------------------------- P.O. Box 347032 Cleveland, Ohio 44134-7032 Allan J. Manak (Chairman) Rick R. Hilberg (Vice Chairman) Founded 1966 A non-profit organization dedicated to the investigation and study of UFOs and related subjects. Its two publications are "Flying Saucer Digest" (quarterly) and "Weirdology" (bi- monthly). UAPA sells a wide variety of books, maps, back issues, rare items, etc. A catalog is available for $1.00. 11.64: Universal Articulate Interdimensional Understanding of Science -------------------------------------------------------------- UNARIUS Academy of Sciences 145 South Magnolia Avenue El Cajon, California 92020-4522 Dr. Ernest L. Norman (Co Founder) Ruth E. Norman (Co Founder) Charles Spaegel (Vice President) 619-447-4170 Publishes the UNARIUS Light Magazine since1954. A non-profit, New Age organization which has pioneered the teaching of Past Life Therapy since 1954. This teaching is given to the student through a curriculum that attunes the truth seeker to the high frequency energy maintained by the authors, who are Advanced Spiritual Beings living on the Inner Planes. UNARIUS receives most of its information and instructions through channeling with the Higher Beings (Space Brothers). UNARIUS writes, publishes, and distributes a complete course of study describing the New Sciences of Life. This course material is covered over 100-plus texts of the UNARIUS Academy of Sciences; augmented by over 100 video programs. The course material covers missing piece's of man's prehistory, the enigma surrounding the dilemma of unresolved problems in science, politics and religion, and the future for mankind in the 21st century. Class sessions are held at the UNARIUS Center on Wednesdays & Sundays at 7:00 p.m.; class fee is S10.00. Some courses are also available on TV stations throughout California. All of the materials are directly related to the UNARIUS goal of achieving Higher Awareness. One of this group's main tenets is that there are superior extraterrestrial forces which control the Earth's destiny and which know the fate of mankind. With the teachings provided by UNARIUS, they feel that each person can become cosmically attuned to higher spiritual forces and can become aware of Reality and what is in store for humans. UNARIUS teaches that the Interplanetary Confederation, a coalition of 33 existing planets, is building 33 spacecraft that will form a giant city and will descend to Earth in the year 2001. This "building" or "city" will descend on land purchased for this purpose in the southern California area and will be a gathering spot for people to come and learn about Cosmic Awareness. In addition to students, interested parties can join UNARIUS for $50.00 per year. 11.65: Victorian U.F.O. Research Society Inc. (VUFORS) ------------------------------------------------------- AVUFORS is the largest UFO society in the Southern hemishpere and has been in existence since the 1950s. (membership approx. 400) Regular discussion nights are held and the Society publishes a quarterly magazine called The Australian U.F.O. Bulletin which details UFO related information from Australia and abroad. Membership: Overseas (non Australian) $US20 (Personal cheques cannot be accepted unless an additional $US5 is included to cover bank charges - We request you remit bank cheques or International Postal Orders) Membership entitles you to receive a copy of "The Australian UFO Bulletin", our quarterly magazine to members. The bulletin contains information from within Australia and overseas. Total number of members is currently around 400. History: The "Australian Flying Saucer Research Society (Victorian Branch)" was formed on the 17th of February, 1957 as a branch of the "Australian Flying Saucer Research Society" and later that year was reorganised as the "Victorian Flying Saucer Research Society" with Mr. Peter E. Norris L.L.B. as President. In 1968 the name was again altered - this time to the "Victorian U.F.O. Research Society". The current executive has been in place since 1978. The Society has held a dispassionate attitude on U.F.O.s, claiming it is a scientific problem deserving closer attention. Membership of this Society - which maintains the largest membership of any U.F.O. organisation in the Southern Hemisphere - is open to all who are genuinely interested in the subject. Significant cases studied: - The Frederick Valentich disappearance (1978). Frederick Valentich was a twenty year old member of the Royal Australian Air Force who disappeared on a solo private flight across Bass Strait after radioing that an object was hovering on top of his Cessna 182. - The Knowles Family Encounter. The case of a family on a car trip across the Nullarbor Plain in South Australia who were buzzed by a UFO that at one stage lifted the Knowles car into the air only to drop it to the road seconds later. Postal Address: Internet contact: P.O. Box 43 email: TCook@cmutual.com.au Moorabbin phone: +61-3-6076849 Victoria, AUSTRALIA 3189 fax : +61-3-6076198 === Disclaimer -------------- Disclaimer: Please Note that I don't claim that any of this research strictly as my own. It comes from many books, articles, electronic postings and people. I have tried to always include where the source of the information at the bottom of the sections when I could. === FAQ Requests ---------------- If you wish to request the current copy of this FAQ, Please include in your email message the maximum number of lines per message systems mail program can handle so I won't crash your mailbox. Also remember this is a big FAQ, make sure you have the disk space. Just so you know I don't plan on doing any major work on this FAQ till December, I need to catch up on other work. Send Request for FAQ's ONLY to: fxdlk@camelot.acf-lab.alaska.edu === FAQ Suggestions & Corrections --------------------------------- If you have any suggestions or would like to add something to the FAQ, PLEASE DO NOT RESEND ME A COMPLETE COPY OF THE FAQ WITH YOUR COMENTS MIXED IN. I already have the latest version. So please just slectively edit the approprate portions of the FAQ into your message, and include the section numbers. Also please send me any corrections you may have for the FAQ. If you or your orgionization is mentioned in the above FAQ and you feel I have misrepresented you please let me know so I can correct the problem. Send all corrections & suggestions to: Bitnet: Fsdlk@alaska ( FAQ Part 4 of 4) Internet: Fsdlk@acad3.alaska.edu ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~ ........... ....... . . . ~ ~ . . . Nasha tai no kasei! . . ~ ~ ... ....... . . ~ ~ . . Prosperity and Long Life, To You. ~ ~ .... xisting . hantom . . ~ ~ . . ~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12842 alt.alien.visitors:11234 sci.skeptic:34538 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!haven.umd.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: 1880s Encounter. Message-ID: <69926@cup.portal.com> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 92 18:52:17 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> Lines: 0 Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12843 alt.alien.visitors:11235 sci.skeptic:34539 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!haven.umd.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: <69927@cup.portal.com> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 92 18:53:09 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> Lines: 0 Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12844 alt.alien.visitors:11236 sci.skeptic:34540 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!sun-barr!olivea!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: <69928@cup.portal.com> Date: 21 Nov 92 02:54:53 GMT References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> Organization: The Portal System (TM) Lines: 17 Subject: 1800s Encounter: One time I was calling into the telephone talk show called The Herb Jepko Show and I told Herb that I was going to play a little trick on him so he said, "Go ahead, be my guest". I told him the following story; Once upon a time a person saw a light come down out of the sky and some people got out of a vehicle and come over and talked to him. What Herb, do you think that was. Herb answered that it sounded like any another story of a peson coming in contact with the beings from a UFO. I then told him the rest of the story and that is the beings had shining apparel and showed him some golden tables that had writing on them. Herb then said, "Oh but that was the angels of the Lord coming down and dealing with Joseph Smith". I then agreed with him and referred him to a small book by Joseph Smith that told of his experience. I've forgotten the name of the book but it had a name like Pearl of Great Price or Golden Jewels. Maybe some of you can remind me what the name of the book is. Herb Jepko's Show was broadcast from Salt Lake City. Utah. John Winston. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12845 alt.alien.visitors:11237 sci.skeptic:34542 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!sun-barr!olivea!uunet!noc.near.net!bigboote.WPI.EDU!parrot.WPI.EDU!drwho From: drwho@parrot.WPI.EDU (Eric Ant Von Laudermann) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Abort Message-ID: <1ekamjINNmtk@bigboote.WPI.EDU> Date: 21 Nov 92 03:33:39 GMT References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <69787@cup.portal.com> Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute Lines: 20 NNTP-Posting-Host: parrot.wpi.edu In article <69787@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >Dear Ex-aliens: It was mentioned that it would be good to have a >dictionary of another language. I was given some words used by another >planet called Legart. About one in a hundred of the words are the same >as ours. I remember one of the words that was the same was the word >abort. >John Winston Ah, but does it mean the same thing? Marge: "You speak English?" Alien: "No, we speak Betelgeusian, but by a staggering coincidence, the two languages are exactly the same." --The Simpsons Halloween Special #1 --E.V.L. (drwho@wpi.wpi.edu) # "Are you absolutely sure that you want to a.k.a.: The Eternal Newbie, # do this? [ny]" The Amazing Tubeman!, # No, but can I do it anyway? Murphy's Law Incarnate # Any similarities what I say and what I mean are purely coincidental. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!ames!data.nas.nasa.gov!mustang.mst6.lanl.gov!nntp-server.caltech.edu!magney From: kanga.caltech.edu!magney (Michael Agney) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Moon sightings Date: 20 Nov 1992 20:21:04 GMT Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena Lines: 17 Message-ID: <1ejhbhINN2oh@gap.caltech.edu> References: <1992Nov18.191231.27299@alf.uib.no> NNTP-Posting-Host: milhouse.caltech.edu Originator: magney@milhouse In article <1992Nov18.191231.27299@alf.uib.no> magnus@bark-fddi.ii.uib.no (Magnus Alvestad) writes: > Flash> looking at alien craft at the top of a crater? I > Flash> think armstrong said something like "..my god there's > Flash> hundreds of them". I'm not to sure because as i > No, no; he said 'Oh my god - it's full of stars!' - of course this was > cencored by the CIA. Dr Asimov, however, who was at that time involved > in a number of Top Secret projects, including the Philadelphia > project, later used it in his book '2001'. It's all there. > Ahem. Arthur C. Clarke wrote "2001". Of course, he might have been involved in secret projects too. -- | Michael Agney | Yd - gender neutral pronoun | | | (well, not quite) | | | Source: Stories by Alison | | magney@cco.caltech.edu | Tellure, back issues of Analog | Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:11239 alt.religion.kibology:4793 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!eff!world!kibo From: kibo@world.std.com (James "Kibo" Parry) Subject: Re: Mind Control of UFOs Message-ID: Organization: Two rooms filled with typography, in downtown Boston References: <1592.479.uupcb@homebase.com> <69882@cup.portal.com> Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 06:03:38 GMT Lines: 16 [alt.alien.visitors] In article <69882@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >Yey Sir: You people listen to this man Joseph. He's telling the truth. >So help me Bibo. >John Winston. For years, we in alt.religion.kibology have wondered who Bibo is; after all, all the other ?ibo names are taken. And here it is from the lips of John Underscore Hyphen Underscore Winston himself: "me Bibo." John, from now on, you're an official ibo. Feel allowed to change your fullanme from "John_-_Winston" to "John 'Bibo' Winston". -- K. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!olivea!decwrl!deccrl!news.crl.dec.com!dbased.nuo.dec.com!nntpd.lkg.dec.com!ryn.mro4.dec.com!est.enet.dec.com!randolph From: randolph@est.enet.dec.com (Tom Randolph) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: The Phobos II Incident Message-ID: <1992Nov20.204639.12225@ryn.mro4.dec.com> Date: 20 Nov 92 23:44:26 GMT References: <1992Nov18.195743.10689@ryn.mro4.dec.com> <1992Nov20.174353.16030@rtfm.mlb.fl.us> Sender: news@ryn.mro4.dec.com (USENET News System) Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation Lines: 118 In article <1992Nov20.174353.16030@rtfm.mlb.fl.us>, joshua@rtfm.mlb.fl.us (Joshua Geller) writes... >has richard hoagland actually been making these more-than-usually >bizarre claims? the only thing of his that I have read is 'monuments >of mars' which is (taken all in all) fairly restrained. >josh I'm not sure of the origin of this. I think it's off USENET, but I'm not sure. We have a grand total of two grainy photos shot from an altitude of 1000 miles from which Hoagland derived all this. -Tom R. randolph@est.enet.dec.com The "Message of Cydonia": First Communication from an Extraterrestrial Civilization? By Richard C. Hoagland* and Erol O. Torun @ [Copyright (C) 1989 All Rights Reserved] Abstract In 1976 an unmanned NASA Viking spacecraft successfully photographed the surface of the planet Mars. In the subsequent 13 years, a mystery has loomed . . . a mile-long, 1500-ft high humanoid "face" discovered in a northern Martian desert called "Cydonia." Initially dismissed by NASA as "a trick of light and shadow," new analysis presented here reveals a far more complex situation, and a far more significant conclusion: The "face" and its surrounding "enigmatic landforms" appear to be a carefully layed out, highly-sophisticated, redundantly encoded "mathematical and geometric CETI message" on the Martian landscape -- in the tradition of century-old proposals by Gauss, Lockyer, et al.. This paper presents the evidence whereby the authors have reached this "radical conclusion." We -- one of us a former NASA consultant, the other a geomorphologist -- detail the extensive geodedic and mathematical analysis of "the Face" we have conducted over the past several years: specifically, its geometric relationship to other, equally enigmatic objects in the immediate vicinity. This evidence includes multiple appearances of two specific mathematical constants: "e" and "pi," derived by angular measurement of the placement of key morphological objects around the "face" and the discovery of redundant angles and derived constants from that placement. We have also discovered the two constants -- "e" and "pi" -- "coded" in the geodedic siting latitude of the "complex" on the planet. It is this multiple, diversified, but converging geodedic, geometric and mathematical evidence that, in the authors' opinion, now robustly supports the "radical conclusion" presented above. The geometry and mathematical constants we have discovered at Cydonia appear to be a highly-specific communication of "embedded tetrahedral geometry." It's apparent purpose: the geometric prediction of a specific geodedic latitude -- 19.5 degrees N. and S. - - resulting from the location of the vertices of a "circumscribed tetrahedran" rotated inside a planetary or stellar sphere. This conclusion is reinforced by the geomorphological observation of a major "tetrahedral pyramid" at Cydonia -- connected geometrically (by a 19.5-degree angle offset to the local geodedic meridian) to equally obvious morphological representations of "spheres" at Cydonia itself. The purpose of all this appears to be to direct attention towards "something occurring at these two specific planetary latitudes." When examined by the authors, using published geodedic planetary maps from NASA and U.S Geological Survey sources, these latitudes are observed to be associated with a hitherto unknown planetary and stellar energy phenomenon -- blatantly emerging at these specific latitudes -- on astronomical objects all across the solar system, including the Sun. Further, the appearance of these "energy outpourings" seems to be modulated by the polarity of the planetary (or stellar) magnetic dipole moment -- raising, in the author's minds, the possibility that the "message" is attempting to direct us to a verifiable astrophysical manifestation of a basic, "unified field," connecting planetary angular momentum, gravity, and electromagnetism with surface energy release. The possibility that "the message" is directing us to, not merely energy transfer but energy generation, is also considered in this paper. Several convergent observations of the outer planets, most recently from Voyager 2, are presented to buttress our contention that we may be looking at a new astrophysically - significant form of energy. Evidence is also presented that some manifestations of this energy may be altering the local "gravitational space-time metric" -- consistant with current theoretical interpretations of tetrahedral mathematics by specialists, as "representative of higher-dimensional n-spaces." The implications of these "real world" geophysical manifestations of "unified field tetrahedral mathematics" -- specific, localized energy release on planetary surfaces, apparently unrecognized until the "Cydonia tetrahedral mathematics" were decoded by the authors -- are profound: ranging from a possible breakthrough in the centuries- long search for a Unified Field Theory connecting the four elemental forces of Nature; to possible technological applications of this knowledge -- including a new energy source, and possibly, ultimate control of gravity itself. We conclude by urging immediate verification of the "Cydonia Message," via the 1992 unmanned Mars Observer spacecraft, as well as detailed follow-up to our preliminary work presented here. * The Mars Mission: Box 981, Wytheville, VA 24382 @ The Defense Mapping Agency: McLean, VA 22102 (PAPER TO BE UPLOADED SHORTLY....) Contributed to KeelyNet by Lance Oliver (214) 324-3501 Best regards, Stefan Hartmann,c/o Workshop for Decentral Energy Research email to: leo@zelator.in-berlin.de ============================================================================ Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!csn!scicom!paranet!p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Michael.Corbin From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Phoenix Project Message-ID: <141134.2B0D4A28@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Date: 20 Nov 92 18:48:02 GMT Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26) Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/428.0 - Date: 21 Nov 92 02:06:18 PST Organization: BBS Lines: 40 I've been reading this sub for a while now. I've heard every possible explination for why the "Greys" are here. They range from, they're curious about us and just want to study us to they're here to eat us and take over the planet or they have already taken over the planet. Most of these are incorrect, except about the eating part. I am a 24 year old African-American male. I live in Oakland,California. What I am about to tell you is pure fact. It was 1982 and I was living near Shreveport,LA in a small town named Vivian. I went on a fishing trip with my father about 9 miles into the woods. I had just caught a small catfish when a bright twinkle caught my eye. I looked up and froze stiff and my mouth dropped open. I saw a black flying saucer shaped object. I don't know how many feet across it was but it was at least 200 feet. Then to my utter horror the thing started to decend. It then proceeded to land in a large clearing about 1/4 mile away. My father just stood there luaghing at me. He looked to be in some sort of shock. Anyway I left him and something made me run towards the ship. As I came to it there was a small man rounding the ship. But it looked like man, it looked just like one of the greys I've just now started to see on TV. Something told me to say something so I choked down my fear and said "Hello". The little grey man jumped and to my suprise said "Hi' how are you?". It spoke perfect english. After a few seconds of stareing at it I then said why are you here? The man said my name is Tral(like Al). "I am here to warn your governments about a great problem. The leaders on my planet are going to invade your planet and use your people like cattle. The "council" made a deal with a well known buisness leader on your plant 30 years ago. His name was Sanders, yes Col. Sanders the fried chicken king. He has made a dark deal to open a chain of fried human franchises across the galaxy. And your people are about to be slaughtered by the millions". I said this sound like bull to me. He said " No Earth man it is true. They will come in the year 2000. They love human meat they can find no other meat so tender and juicy, and add Col. Sanders eleven herbs and spices and they cannot resist. Beware human they ARE coming.." The ship left and I ran to my father who was sitting in the truck. He asked me what he said and I told him the wasen't gonna believ me. Thank you, Hitman P.S. All writing above this line utter bullshit. Get a life. Aliens are not comming to get us. You idiots are starting to sound crazy. None of you have ever met an alien and never will. Go out, see movie, have some sex geeks. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12849 alt.alien.visitors:11243 sci.skeptic:34556 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: <69951@cup.portal.com> Date: Sat, 21 Nov 92 06:28:12 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> Lines: 6 Dear Concerned Parties of the First Part: I believe you will find that the underscores (_ _) that are with my name are a result of how Portal chooses to identify a person and not something I dreamed up. I'll have to admit that was a pretty funny come back. It's saturday and I just got paid so how good can it get? John Winston. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12850 alt.alien.visitors:11244 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!spool.mu.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Cayce's Pyramid Message-ID: <69952@cup.portal.com> Date: Sat, 21 Nov 92 06:32:00 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) Distribution: world References: <64264@cup.portal.com> <69885@cup.portal.com> <69900@cup.portal.com> Lines: 2 Dear Folks: It saturday and maybe tomorrow I pump out some new information. John Winston. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12851 alt.alien.visitors:11245 alt.religion.kibology:4796 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology Subject: Re: Big Bird Message-ID: <69953@cup.portal.com> Date: Sat, 21 Nov 92 06:36:33 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) Distribution: world References: <67397@cup.portal.com> <69886@cup.portal.com> <69901@cup.portal.com> Lines: 3 Dear Big Bird Watchers: It's getting close to Thanksgiving and I assume that some of you are thinking about a different type of bird now. John Winston. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!wotan.compaq.com!twisto.eng.hou.compaq.com!sword.eng.hou.compaq.com!mccreary From: mccreary@sword.eng.hou.compaq.com (Ed McCreary) Subject: Re: The Phobos II Incident Message-ID: <1992Nov18.171957.6842@twisto.eng.hou.compaq.com> Keywords: Phobos II Sender: news@twisto.eng.hou.compaq.com (Netnews Account) Organization: Compaq Computer Corp. References: Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 17:19:57 GMT Lines: 34 In article davidj@wrs.com (David Jones) writes: >joseph.daniels%hombas@homebase.com (Joseph Daniels) >and usenet@news.cso.uiuc.edu (Net Noise owner) write: > >>You have a very impressive imagination if you can see all this in Viking >>pictures. There is no reason to think that anything on the surface of Mars >>is artificial except for Vikings 1 and 2 and the remains of early Soviet >>landers. > >Bzzzt! Wrong. There seems to be ample information to conclude that, indeed, >not only are there ancient ET cities on Mars, but underground cities as well >and, according to a U.S Army General (retired), that I was with, he said that >there is clear evidence of mechanical devices on the surface of Mars, and >that they are moving. Tell me, how many pictures did Viking take? How many >have been released to the the public (we paid for them didn't we?). Again, >the real issue is a government that lies to it's people. If they would only >tell the Truth... > Viking took hundreds if not thousands of photographs. All are archived and available for research. Most of them are available on a set of six CDROM's for 6$ a disk. I know, I have them. Other than a pile of dirt which in two pictures "kinda" looks like a pile of dirt, what evidence do you have? If there really were mechanical devices roaming mars, there would be some very excited scientist out there. -- ==== Ed McCreary ,__o mccreary@sword.eng.hou.compaq.com _-\_<, "If it were not for laughter, there would be no Tao." (*)/'(*) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!wotan.compaq.com!twisto.eng.hou.compaq.com!sword.eng.hou.compaq.com!mccreary From: mccreary@sword.eng.hou.compaq.com (Ed McCreary) Subject: Re: The Phobos II Incident Message-ID: <1992Nov19.202617.13265@twisto.eng.hou.compaq.com> Sender: news@twisto.eng.hou.compaq.com (Netnews Account) Organization: Compaq Computer Corp. References: <1992Nov18.195743.10689@ryn.mro4.dec.com> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 20:26:17 GMT Lines: 33 In article <1992Nov18.195743.10689@ryn.mro4.dec.com> randolph@est.enet.dec.com (Tom Randolph) writes: > >Oh, please. Been reading Hoagland, eh? Gawd, it just grows and grows. Last I >saw, he and someone else had formulated a unified field theory from the two >Viking photos of the Cydonia region. There seems to be no limit on the amount >of new scientific breakthroughs we can get out of those two grainy photos. Ha! And the Face is responsible for the crop-circles in England too. (Hoagland actually claims there are connected. He found a few angles that seem to match. Of course, you just have to keep looking until you find a pair you like...) > >How many pictures: thousands. How many released: all of them. They're available >on CD ROMs. Get them and look for yourself. But of course, this must be another >government lie... > Just to clarify, not all are available on CDROM, only a selection. I haven't gone through all of them yet, I've only had them a couple of weeks, but I'm almost certain that the two Cydonia pictures aren't on the disks. The two face pictures, 35a72 and 70a13, are from the early phase of the mission. The disks contain images from the later phases. All of the images are stored on tape at the National Space Science Data Center (NSSDC). I'm not sure how to go about get access to them, but it is possible. -- ==== Ed McCreary ,__o mccreary@sword.eng.hou.compaq.com _-\_<, "If it were not for laughter, there would be no Tao." (*)/'(*) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!wotan.compaq.com!twisto.eng.hou.compaq.com!sword.eng.hou.compaq.com!mccreary From: mccreary@sword.eng.hou.compaq.com (Ed McCreary) Subject: Re: The Phobos II Incident Message-ID: <1992Nov20.205856.12247@twisto.eng.hou.compaq.com> Sender: news@twisto.eng.hou.compaq.com (Netnews Account) Organization: Compaq Computer Corp. References: <1992Nov18.195743.10689@ryn.mro4.dec.com> <1992Nov20.174353.16030@rtfm.mlb.fl.us> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 20:58:56 GMT Lines: 27 In article <1992Nov20.174353.16030@rtfm.mlb.fl.us> joshua@rtfm.mlb.fl.us (Joshua Geller) writes: >has richard hoagland actually been making these more-than-usually >bizarre claims? the only thing of his that I have read is 'monuments >of mars' which is (taken all in all) fairly restrained. > >does anyone know his compu$erve address? I have heard rumors and second >hand reports attributing all sorts of wierdness and conspiracy theories >to him. it might be worth while to ask him about all of this stuff. > He does believe that there is a good chance that NASA is covering something up. He also believes that the "face" is tied into the crop-circles over in England. I finally broke down and bought the book just to read first hand what he's saying. I'm not very far into it, but he seems to shift between semi-accurate science reporting and almost psychotic ramblings. I on the other hand think that the "face" is pile of dirt. Hopefully the Mars Observer will be able to catch a frame or two of the same area. -- ==== Ed McCreary ,__o mccreary@sword.eng.hou.compaq.com _-\_<, "If it were not for laughter, there would be no Tao." (*)/'(*) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!wotan.compaq.com!twisto.eng.hou.compaq.com!sword.eng.hou.compaq.com!mccreary From: mccreary@sword.eng.hou.compaq.com (Ed McCreary) Subject: Re: Moon sightings Message-ID: <1992Nov20.210203.12523@twisto.eng.hou.compaq.com> Sender: news@twisto.eng.hou.compaq.com (Netnews Account) Organization: Compaq Computer Corp. References: <1723.479.uupcb@homebase.com> <2B0D1511.7AFC@tct.com> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 21:02:03 GMT Lines: 19 In article <2B0D1511.7AFC@tct.com> chip@tct.com (Chip Salzenberg) writes: >According to joseph.daniels@homebase.com (Joseph Daniels) : >>It was a little different when James Lovell on board the Apollo 8 >>command module came out from behind the moon and said for everybody >>to hear: 'PLEASE BE INFORMED THAT THERE IS A SANTA CLAUS.' Even >>though this happened on Christmas Day 1968, many people sensed a >>hidden meaning in those words." > >Oh, that's just priceless. Really! Ha! That's wonderful! Do you know if it's documented anywhere? I'd love to get a copy of it. -- ==== Ed McCreary ,__o mccreary@sword.eng.hou.compaq.com _-\_<, "If it were not for laughter, there would be no Tao." (*)/'(*) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!news.cso.uiuc.edu!uxa.cso.uiuc.edu!jbh55289 From: jbh55289@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Josh 'K' Hopkins) Subject: Re: Moon sightings 2/2 References: <1724.479.uupcb@homebase.com> Message-ID: Sender: usenet@news.cso.uiuc.edu (Net Noise owner) Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 18:09:21 GMT Lines: 24 Of course, we all know this is garbage, but I want to respond to two allegations included - the one below, and the allegation that we didn't go back to the Moon because we were sacred off. joseph.daniels@homebase.com (Joseph Daniels) writes: >Professor: But NASA had other missions after Apollo 11? >Armstrong: Naturally - NASA was committed at that time, and > couldn't risk panic on Earth. But it really was a > quick scoop and back again. Actually, the Apollo missions got longer and longer, up to a mission of three days on the surface by Apollo 17. The reason we didn't go back after that was funding cuts from a government and public that no longer cared, not fear of alien attack. I believe the Lunar Orbiter pictures are available to the public. If there are huge bases there please feel free to find them. Otherwise get a clue. -- Josh Hopkins jbh55289@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu "Why put off 'til tomorrow what you're never going to do anyway?" Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!jnielsen From: jnielsen@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (John F Nielsen) Subject: Re: Wake up to reality Message-ID: <1992Nov21.201400.21960@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> Sender: news@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Nntp-Posting-Host: magnusug.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Organization: The Ohio State University References: <1553.479.uupcb@homebase.com> <1992Nov17.164138.23670@tamsun.tamu.edu> Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 20:14:00 GMT Lines: 29 In article <1992Nov17.164138.23670@tamsun.tamu.edu> cjr6495@tamsun.tamu.edu (Opera_Ghost) writes: >In article <1553.479.uupcb@homebase.com> joseph.daniels@homebase.com (Joseph Daniels) writes: >>To: stancad@woods.ulowell.edu >>From: hombas!Joseph.daniels@uunet.ca >> >>ST|Wake up everybody! This is the real world...there are no UFOs... >> `---------------------------------------------------------------- > > >Really? Prove it. > >CJR > > That is not the point. You do not prove something's existance by not being able to disprove it's existance. I cannot disprove that a purple red wood with candy canes for leaves exists in Australia. However, that does not make it unreasonable to say that it does not exist. Without any proof an alien is in the same catagory as the purple redwood. john -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- John Nielsen MAGNUS Consultant ______ ______ __ __ jnielsen@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu /\ __ \ /\ ___\ /\ \/\ \ \ \ \/\ \\ \___ \\ \ \_\ \ Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!noc.near.net!news.cs.brandeis.edu!binah.cc.brandeis.edu!CORBISIER From: corbisier@binah.cc.brandeis.edu Subject: hypnosis experimentation proof Message-ID: <1992Nov21.203615.6541@news.cs.brandeis.edu> Sender: news@news.cs.brandeis.edu (USENET News System) Reply-To: corbisier@binah.cc.brandeis.edu Organization: Brandeis University Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 20:36:15 GMT Lines: 15 In article <1ef1ghINNhgv@gap.cal tech.edu>, Carl J Lydnick writes: :...REAL research has proven that "real" memories of things that :never happened can be produced via hypnosis. Please name your sources, i.e. experimenters, location, dates, where published, etc. I am in the process of studying memory, hypnosis and alien abduction, and to the best of my knowledge, there is no firm proof about hypnosis either for or against. I would be very interested in knowing about these alleged studies you refer to. Incidentally, what is "REAL" research? Or fake research for that matter? :) Barb Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12852 alt.alien.visitors:11253 sci.skeptic:34575 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cis.ohio-state.edu!rutgers!cmcl2!panix!carlf From: carlf@panix.com (Carl Fink) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Past Life regression - the proof (was GSI Day) Message-ID: <1992Nov21.214716.23311@panix.com> Date: 21 Nov 92 21:47:16 GMT References: <1ef1ghINNhgv@gap.caltech.edu> <1992Nov20.012457.15976@unislc.uucp> Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix, NYC Lines: 27 In <1992Nov20.012457.15976@unislc.uucp> erc@unislc.uucp (Ed Carp) writes: >[sarcastic skeptic post deleted to save electricity] >Have you ever done any *real* research, or are you just talking through >your hat? Ever read J. B. Rhine's studies on the Bridey Murphy case? >Ever read Ian Stevenson's stuff? If you haven't done any real research >into the field, I respectfully submit that your opinion is nothing more >than that - opinion, and a misinformed one, at that. [Pointlessly doubled signature deleted for space] Ed, there's no way to tell who you're talking to here - how can whoever it is answer you? You not only deleted his/her post, you failed to refer to his/her name. BTW - you are wrong. Have YOU ever done any research on this? "Bridey Murphy" is one of the best documented cases of cryptic memory being mistaken for reincarnation on record. Sorry. -- Carl Fink carlf@panix.com, C.FINK4(GEnie), or CF427620I@LIUVAX.BITNET "Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence" -- John Adams Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!haven.umd.edu!uunet!virgin!unhtel!morwyn!forrie From: forrie@morwyn.uucp (Forrest Aldrich) Subject: Re: A letter to Clinton/Gore References: <1992Nov18.074528.14279@netcom.co> <422800034@peg.pegasus.oz.au> Organization: Vision Graphics Dover, NH USA Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 19:10:01 GMT Message-ID: <1992Nov21.191001.4416@morwyn.uucp> Reply-To: morwyn.uucp!forrie@unhtel.unh.edu (Forrest Aldrich - SysAdmin) Lines: 39 From article <422800034@peg.pegasus.oz.au>, golight@peg.pegasus.oz.au has written: +-------------------- | Instead of your IMHO's why don't you get off your dorkus & write a | personal ltr to the Pressie yo self? +-------------------- It takes the work of many people to effectively deal with this sensitive issue. It would be far better for the 'Pressie' (nice terminology) to receive 1 _good_ serious letter to consider, rather than several letters which require editing and other work to consider. I'm sorry if you have a problem with this. +-------------------- | As for Jefferies post...good on'm....in addition we've got plenty | of secret government to get to ourselves....so let's get to work. +-------------------- I'm sure your suggestions will be welcomed and considered. But please... understand that a group effort is necessary, otherwise sit back and observe. You might learn something. +-------------------- | If half the population of the planet would stand-up and get on | with it...the rest would follow! +-------------------- Sigh. Forrest -- ----------- Forrest Aldrich ----------- ------- morwyn!forrie@unhtel.unh.edu ------- ---- ---- -- VISION GRAPHICS -- Dover, NH - USA -- ------------------------------------------------------ Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uunet.ca!canrem!dosgate!dosgate![roman.andruszko@canrem.com] From: "roman andruszko" Subject: alien.part1 ???? Message-ID: <1992Nov21.4962.11773@dosgate> Reply-To: "roman andruszko" Organization: Canada Remote Systems Distribution: alt Date: 21 Nov 92 17:44:57 EST Lines: 13 I must have missed the start of the "Alien.Part1" discussion that is still going on. Can somebody tell me what started the topic and maybe review what the issues are. Thanks. TTLY roman.andruszko@canrem.uucp ÛRoman Andruszko °°°°°°±±±±±±±±²²²²²²²²²²ÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛ ßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßß --- þ DeLuxeý 1.26b #7079 þ Now using Qmail DeLuxeý...and loving it! -- Canada Remote Systems - Toronto, Ontario World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044 Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12853 alt.alien.visitors:11256 sci.skeptic:34580 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: <69983@cup.portal.com> Date: Sat, 21 Nov 92 17:30:36 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> Lines: 4 Dear Folks: I have been reading all the comments of all people concerned and you people better watch out because I just may take you off my christmas present list. John Winston Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12854 alt.alien.visitors:11257 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Cayce's Pyramid Message-ID: <69984@cup.portal.com> Date: Sat, 21 Nov 92 17:34:27 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) Distribution: world References: <64264@cup.portal.com> <69885@cup.portal.com> <69900@cup.portal.com> Lines: 2 Dear Folk: Tomorrow I should have some time to do some more posting. John Winston. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!network.ucsd.edu!sdcc12!cs!jhussain From: jhussain@cs.ucsd.edu (Jabir Hussain) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: I know why thier here! Message-ID: <41403@sdcc12.ucsd.edu> Date: 21 Nov 92 21:28:19 GMT References: Sender: news@sdcc12.ucsd.edu Organization: CSE Dept., U.C. San Diego Lines: 17 Nntp-Posting-Host: magilla.ucsd.edu In article , hitmantt@terapin.com (Harold Herndon) writes: |> true. They will come in the year 2000. They love human meat they can find no |> other meat so tender and juicy, and add Col. Sanders eleven herbs and spices |> and they cannot resist. Beware human they ARE coming.." Sorry to disappoint you, dude, but McDonalds has been selling franchises all over the galaxy for years now. The colonel bit the big one after they tried his slogan "finger licking good" only to find out that most alien races do not have any fingers to lick in the first place, and the phrase "idsfy licking good" just doesn't have that ring... Last I heard from Tral (he drops by occasionally) they are going to start publication of "Weekly Galactic News" consisting entirely of articles by our very own JW. It seems the galactics like a good laugh as much as anyone else... Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12855 alt.alien.visitors:11259 alt.religion.kibology:4800 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology Subject: Re: Bigfootf spaceman? Message-ID: <69987@cup.portal.com> Date: Sat, 21 Nov 92 17:47:47 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) Distribution: world References: <67397@cup.portal.com> Lines: 4 Dear Serious Question Askers: I have not been hit upon by the large bird in question. In regards to whether I now anyhone but the unusual the answer is "Yes my wife". John Winston. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!csus.edu!netcom.com!payner From: payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne) Subject: Re: hypnosis experimentation proof Message-ID: <1992Nov22.032415.1997@netcom.com> Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) References: <1992Nov21.203615.6541@news.cs.brandeis.edu> Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 03:24:15 GMT Lines: 40 In article <1992Nov21.203615.6541@news.cs.brandeis.edu> corbisier@binah.cc.brandeis.edu writes: >In article <1ef1ghINNhgv@gap.cal tech.edu>, Carl J Lydnick writes: > >:...REAL research has proven that "real" memories of things that >:never happened can be produced via hypnosis. > >Please name your sources, i.e. experimenters, location, dates, where >published, etc. I am in the process of studying memory, hypnosis >and alien abduction, and to the best of my knowledge, there is no firm >proof about hypnosis either for or against. I would be very interested >in knowing about these alleged studies you refer to. I do not have a citation, but I do remember reading of some research about hypnosis. Subjects were flashed (I assume slides) images of the back of a car. The license plates were unreadable. It seems that the subjects would recall a license number under hypnosis. I do not recall if it was some or all. The conclusion I recall was that they would come up with the numbers in order to please the hypnotist. I am not trying to be vague, this is what I remember. >Incidentally, what is "REAL" research? Or fake research for that >matter? :) I would assume that this means peer reviewed and presumably cross-checked by parties with no vested interest in the outcome. Cold Fusion did not stand up too peer review. But then, research is still going on. But then, I do not speak for Carl, and may be wrong. >Barb Rich payner@netcom.com From: Donald.Pattee@iphase.infoserv.com (Donald Pattee) Sender: FredGate@iphase.infoserv.com Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!haven.umd.edu!uunet!infoserv!iphase!FredGate Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Auras Message-ID: <722328008.0@iphase.infoserv.com> Date: 20 Nov 92 21:21:18 EST Lines: 15 -> Date: Fri, 13 Nov 92 17:44:27 PST -> Dear Aura Watchers: I once interviewed a lady astronaut and she said that -> she could see the life force around a cell under the microscope and when -> the cell was dead the life force was not visible. She also said she -> could see the life force of this earth when she was in orbit. -> John Winston. -> * Origin: Gated from UUCP to iphase.fidonet.org by FredGate (1:112/28.0) I have the strange earry feeling that one might not be able to see the life force of the earth in the not-so-far-off future... Donald R.X>Pattee Vote for Insanity...You know it makes since. * Origin: StarLight Acres BBS (904)-829-1442 (1:112/7) Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12858 alt.alien.visitors:11262 sci.skeptic:34590 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!psinntp!wrldlnk!usenet From: "James F. Tims" Subject: Re: Past Life regression - the proof (was GSI Day) In-Reply-To: <20NOV199208014661@skyblu.ccit.arizona.edu> Message-ID: <2931457359.0.p00168@psilink.com> Sender: usenet@worldlink.com Nntp-Posting-Host: 127.0.0.1 Organization: Semper Excelsior Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 17:46:35 GMT X-Mailer: PSILink (3.2) Lines: 112 >DATE: 20 Nov 1992 08:01 MST >FROM: James J. Lippard [Reincarnation stuff ...] > >I recommend Paul Edwards' four-part series on "The Case Against Reincarnation" >in _Free Inquiry_ magazine, in which he addresses Stevenson's cases in the >fourth part. (Fall 1986, Winter 86/87, Spring 87, Summer 87) Edwards >also now has a book out on the subject. > >Jim Lippard Lippard@CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU >Dept. of Philosophy Lippard@ARIZVMS.BITNET I posted this in a previous life, but I think it's time to regress and fire it out there again. ------ I hope no one will mind my posting of the following letter to _Free Inquiry_ from Bob Silberg of West Hills, CA. No study of reincarnation can possibly be complete without having read: [The letter begins with a reference to a series of 4 articles on reincarnation, written by Paul Edwards and published in _Free Inquiry_ (approx.) Winter '86 - Summer '87]... As Paul Edwards has related, the purpose of karmic reincarnation is to process a soul (or self or spirit or ego or whatever) until it is fit for Nirvana. With each succeeding life, the soul is supposed to gain purity and moral strength, growing ever closer to the ideal. The traditional route leads from the lowest life-form (or lifestle) to the highest, with a life of luxury as the last stop before eternal bliss. If one leads an exemplary life as a street urchin, for example, one is likely to reappear as a United States Senator. I believe this concept is backward! Consider: If one wants to strengthen one's body by lifting weights, one doesn't begin with the heaviest weights and gradually reduce the load as strength increases. On the contrary, one starts light and easy, and steps up the challenge as the muscles grow more powerful. Similarly, if life is the soul's gym, the newer or weaker souls surely would not be given the monumental challenge of living with poverty, disease, and despair. No, they would be given lives of ease to begin with; and, if they did good jobs at those, then the load could be increased with the next go-round. The preference of reincarnating souls for lives of squalor, which Edwards noted in his fourth essay, is thus revealed as the equivalent of top athletes flocking to an advanced workout class. Logically, it follows that Shirley MacLaine, the rich, famous, talented, beautiful movie star, must have realy screwed up in her multitude of previous lives. Otherwise, she would surely be suffering a life of misery in the back alleys of Bombay or Beirut by now, pumping karma until she was fit for Paradise. Billy Joel, the rich, famous, successful rock star married to Christie Brinkley, must have a soul that is brand new. No one could have made such a mess of previous lives that he would be so coddled in his re-incarnation. Ironically, many people may be pursuing lives of kindness, tolerance, and generosity out of the mistaken notion that they will be rewarded by coming back as potentates or Club Med managers. We can now see that such behavior is likely instead to earn them tours as crack addicts, the better to build up their psychic pectorals. In view of Mr. Edwards's scholarly treatment of the issue, I can only assume that he omitted mention of this concept because of concern that some of our more short-sighted citizens might forgo the path to Glory in favor of temporary material comfort in the next life. Such misguided souls would lie, cheat, steal, or worse in an attempt to be sent to "remedial gym" next time, where they could sip pinia coladas with Morgan Brittany. In view of the numbers of people we have performing such activities already (lying, cheating, etc., I mean, not the imbibing with Ms. Brittany), it may indeed be best not to offer an incentive for more miscreants. However, I believe that we can trust this journal's readers to be discreet. In any case, I doubt that a bunch of self-confessed secular humanists would gain much of an audience among those who would put such knowledge to perverse ends. Bob Silberg West Hills, Calif. [end of letter] This, now most certainly the definitive work on reincarnation, should have our every ear, and both Mr. Silberg and _Free Inquiry_ our gratitude for clearing all this business up, once and for all. I pray that I have faithfully transcribed the text, and that I may unmend my ways (as slowly as possible) to, say...Monaco. Munich?! No more mister nice guy! 8^) -- jim tims "And if you're a miner, when you're too tired and old and sick and stupid to do your job properly, you have to go, whereas just the opposite applies with the judges." Beyond the Fringe Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12861 alt.alien.visitors:11263 alt.religion.kibology:4802 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!linac!att!cbnewsk!cbnewsj!att-out!pacbell.com!network.ucsd.edu!sdcc12!sdcc13!pashley From: pashley@sdcc13.ucsd.edu (Montykins) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology Subject: Re: Bigfootf spaceman? Message-ID: <41428@sdcc12.ucsd.edu> Date: 22 Nov 92 09:34:02 GMT References: <67397@cup.portal.com> <69987@cup.portal.com> Sender: news@sdcc12.ucsd.edu Followup-To: talk.religion.newage Organization: University of California, San Diego Lines: 20 Nntp-Posting-Host: sdcc13.ucsd.edu In article <69987@cup.portal.com>, John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >Dear Serious Question Askers: I have not been hit upon by the large bird >in question. In regards to whether I now anyhone but the unusual the >answer is "Yes my wife". >John Winston. The mind boggles. Then the mind rereads the posting. Then the mind tells the newsreading software to show the message again. Then the mind boggles anew. Question: How many of the mockers are _not_ reading this stuff in alt.religion.kibology? And a Serious Question for Mr._-_Winston: WHY are you posting to alt.religion.kibology in the first place? -Paul "Monty" Ashley (Boggle bogggle boggle) -- All just the opinions of pashley@sdcc13.ucsd.edu. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12862 alt.alien.visitors:11264 sci.skeptic:34594 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!spool.mu.edu!olivea!uunet!mcsun!sunic!hagbard!loglule!prosys!ath From: ath@linkoping.trab.se (Anders Thulin) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Dolphin-Aliens? Message-ID: <1992Nov22.080533.10145@linkoping.trab.se> Date: 22 Nov 92 08:05:33 GMT References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <69712@cup.portal.com> Organization: Telia Research AB, Teknikringen 2B, S-583 30 Linkoping, Sweden Lines: 24 In article stone@cwis.unomaha.edu (Travis Stone) writes: >John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >>Even now, friendly dolphins are being >>used to help heal mentally handicapped children. I have found these less >>fortunate kids relate more to the friendly dolphins than humans. > >Really? Interesting. When did he do this research? Where? >Whom did he do it with? Where did he publish his findings? Research on treating autistic children along these lines is done at Florida State University, unless my memory serves me wrong. I've seen the names of two therapists, but I can't quite recall them. One is a pychologist (Nathansson?), the other a professor (Betty S...?) This is off the top of my head - the article I read this in is at home. If someone's interested, drop me a line, and I'll try to find more specific info. -- Anders Thulin ath@linkoping.trab.se 013-23 55 32 Telia Research AB, Teknikringen 2B, S-583 30 Linkoping, Sweden Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!spool.mu.edu!sgiblab!sgigate!rutgers!igor.rutgers.edu!dropout.rutgers.edu!mcgrew From: mcgrew@dropout.rutgers.edu (Charles Mcgrew) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: The Phobos II Incident Keywords: Phobos II Message-ID: Date: 22 Nov 92 04:43:46 GMT References: <1992Nov18.143921.19479@ioe.ac.uk> Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J. Lines: 15 teexijd@ioe.ac.uk (IAN DAVENPORT) writes: Flame me if I'm wrong here, but wasn't the problem with Phobos II that the control center accidentally sent the craft a "switch off antenna" signal, realising then that the craft could not receive any "switch on antenna" signals they might send. ...actually, there were two phobos craft, and one was accidently disabled by its controllers (I don't remember the details offhand, but it was something like you describe.) The second craft successfully (and functioning) made it to Mars, and then whatever happened to it happened. Charles Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12865 alt.alien.visitors:11266 alt.religion.kibology:4803 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology Subject: Re: Big Bird Message-ID: <70026@cup.portal.com> Date: Sun, 22 Nov 92 06:45:04 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <67397@cup.portal.com> <69886@cup.portal.com> Lines: 15 Subject: Big Bird. Part 2. As I was saying before my psychic advisor suggested that I not go looking for this thing alone or at dark. I counldn't get anyone who would go with me so I struck out by myself. This place turned out to be up a certain canyon on Mission Peak near Fremont, Calif. It turned out to be that this nest was made out of a large tree that had been knocked down and then something had trampled down the large branches of the tree and had placed smaller pieces of branches on top of that. It finally looked like a nest. Around this nest were a bunch of bones as if something had been eating things and then throwing the bones out of the nest. Some of the bones were cattle and then there were also bones of living creatures that were smaller. It was not apparent whether they were dog bones or something young about our size. It was getting dark so I left. End Part 2. John Winston. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12867 alt.alien.visitors:11267 alt.religion.kibology:4805 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!usenet.coe.montana.edu!news.u.washington.edu!uw-beaver!boesch From: boesch@cs.washington.edu (Eric Boesch) Subject: Re: Big Bird Message-ID: <1992Nov22.163403.8513@beaver.cs.washington.edu> Sender: news@beaver.cs.washington.edu (USENET News System) Organization: professional xenobiologist, PhD, U. of Southeast Idaho, 1974 References: <70026@cup.portal.com> Date: Sun, 22 Nov 92 16:34:03 GMT Lines: 30 John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >Subject: Big Bird. Part 2. > As I was saying before my psychic advisor suggested that I not go looking >for this thing alone or at dark. I counldn't get anyone who would go with >me so I struck out by myself. [...] >It was getting dark so I left. I didn't always live in the city, you know, and I've seen this all before. Back in the summer of 1957, it was. A new family had moved into town. They had two small children, a boy and a girl. The mother was a school nurse and the father was a wildlife photographer. The father went exploring and found what he first thought was a burial ground. The old-timers told him to stay away, but he wouldn't do it. That man was my father -- Oh, sorry, I was getting carried away. Hi, I'm Eric. I'll be replacing you as the main character after you are eaten. Your psychic advisor doesn't stand a chance either. Psychic advisors are new-fangled, and this thing is ... old. You'd better get that sex scene over with quick; you don't have much time. In case you don't remember, your psychic advisor is a stunning female, 28, with long brown hair, and you are going to make Seventies Luv with her. Keep up the good work, and remember to narrate your dying breath, Eric "I have spent my whole life learning how this monster thinks" Boesch Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!ira.uka.de!math.fu-berlin.de!unidui!rrz.uni-koeln.de!Germany.EU.net!mcsun!sun4nl!hacktic!blackhl!stycx!peter From: peter@stycx.hacktic.nl (Author) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: underground facilities Message-ID: Date: Fri, 20 Nov 92 06:43:19 PST Organization: River of Doom. Running through Central Holland Lines: 17 I've been reading that there would be a number of underground facilities for use by aliens in Arizona and New Mexico. Notably these facilities would have been contructed underneath Native American Reservations. Is there anyone out there who happens to know which reservations? Also I would be interested to see if some of you, living in Arizona and New Mexico, who have more information on this. The thing sounds pretty wild to me, but I commited myself to an open mind and a 'bann' on the word impossible. Peter- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- peter@stycx.hacktic.nl (5W) Crawling out from the river of darkness into your own private pinball machine Call STYCX (Waffle 1.65) from 23:00 to 06:00 Central European Time Number +31-3404-59551 Newkid Intown the nastiest Sysop arround Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12869 alt.alien.visitors:11269 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cis.ohio-state.edu!rutgers!flop.ENGR.ORST.EDU!gaia.ucs.orst.edu!news.cs.indiana.edu!noose.ecn.purdue.edu!sparkyfs.erg.sri.com!csl.sri.com!nntp1.radiomail.net!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: UFOs and Newage Message-ID: <70027@cup.portal.com> Date: 22 Nov 92 15:29:01 GMT References: <64264@cup.portal.com> Organization: The Portal System (TM) Lines: 31 Subject: Wolf 359. In checking out the other planets and the people you will find that most of them are ahead of us in their developement. The people from Venus are 5,000 years ahead of us and in the 4th dimension. They are ahead of us because we wipe ourselves out every so often and start over again. There is one planet behind us and I'll now tell you what the space people have to say about it. Now, as we rise slowly above this planet's circle and again gaze out into the depths of utter darkness, we shall pick another place of interest. your music proclaims a somewhat martial air, so let us take a look at those who enjoy themselves in the practice of military tactics. Does this sound strange, my brothers and sisters? Well, knowing of evolution, it should not be so. We approach now one known to your astronomers as a little planet, and a very dim one. We shall go now to one known as Wolf 359 and here we find the pagentry and color, the way of life prevalent upon your planet during what you called your Middle Ages. For here, my brothers, we find a planet whose scale of evolution is no higher than this. One, who is actually behind you (behind the earth in evolution). We look down from our heights carefully so we won't attract their attention, and we look as we surround our craft with a heavy fog to simulate their cloud formations. We see castles and indeed, an evolution similar to that which transpired upon your planet in early days. Gallants mounted upon horses carrying their lances and going forth to meet perhaps, a dragon. A feudalistic world--one knowing naught but the power of might. Indeed, one which has yet much to learn. Yet, my brothers and sisters, how can we from loftier heights not look upon this budding one and realize, that all who have evolved have experieced similar moments? MAN's striving attempts again to ever reach upwards and outwards towards that goal which he knows exists in infinity. Source of Information, Star Wards by Richard Miller, page 55. John Winston. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12870 alt.alien.visitors:11270 sci.skeptic:34598 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Invisible Baby Message-ID: <70029@cup.portal.com> Date: Sun, 22 Nov 92 08:03:19 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> Lines: 27 Subject: Invisible Baby. Well folks, we have had invisible fish, and invisible space people so here we go with an invisible baby. It seems that a 26 year old woman has given birth to a baby who can disappear at will and crawl through walls! "We're obviously dealing with a ghost", said Dr. Margery Brandt, the child's pediatrician, told reporters in Amsterdam, Holland. The little girl vanishes and reappears when you hold her. She can float in midair. We've even seen her crawl through a wall. Paranormal researcher Benno Colson thinks the child is one of a handful of spirit entities brought into the material world by mistake. A key question now is whether the girl will retain her spirit powers or lose them as she grows older. I am aware of five other cases of supernatural birth. In each instance, they lost their abilities or disappeared altogether. It's almost as if they had some sort of self-limiting mechanism to compentate for the fact that they were born into the wrong world. "There is no telling what we might be able to learn from them," said Dr. Brandt. "I just hope it's all good." This is me (John Winston) speaking. There you have it folks. I have a friend who told me the story about the magic hoes who is now going to send a copy of the book that deals with the subject over to a person who has been elected as the president of a country in Africa. He thinks this president is interested in these subjects, especially the ability of a person to back into a wall and es cape. John Winston. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!uunet.ca!hombas!joseph.daniels From: joseph.daniels@homebase.com (Joseph Daniels) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Whitely Strieber Message-ID: <1829.479.uupcb@homebase.com> Date: 22 Nov 92 01:29:00 GMT Distribution: world Organization: Home Base BBS - St. Thomas, Ontario - 519-633-7253 Reply-To: joseph.daniels@homebase.com (Joseph Daniels) Lines: 11 To: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com From: joseph.daniels@homebase.com I read a letter from Whitley Strieber (author of "Communion" and "Transformation") a while back mentioning that he was fed-up with the entire UFO community. Can anyone please explain (or post) the details of what happened? --- . SLMR 2.1a . Do Firemen enjoy BBQ meat? Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!uunet.ca!hombas!joseph.daniels From: joseph.daniels@homebase.com (Joseph Daniels) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: 1800 Encounter. Message-ID: <1830.479.uupcb@homebase.com> Date: 22 Nov 92 01:38:00 GMT Distribution: world Organization: Home Base BBS - St. Thomas, Ontario - 519-633-7253 Reply-To: joseph.daniels@homebase.com (Joseph Daniels) Lines: 54 To: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com From: Joseph.Daniels@homebase.com Topic: Air Force Letter 200-2 Air Force Letter 200-2 (Regulation) USA by Joseph Daniels aka UFO JOE After a couple months of the Robertson Panel Meeting in January 1953 Air Force Regulation 200-2 went into effect. It mandated that: "the percentage of unidentified (UFOs) must be reduced to a minimum." This meant that explanations had to be found one way or another. In other words the Air Force was forcing it's personnel to debunk and explain away UFOs. 200-2 was complemented by Regulation JANAP-146, making the release of information about UFOs by military personnel a crime punishable by a fine of $10,000 and 10 years of imprisonment. Most citizens do not realize that it is illegal for military personnel to discuss UFOs. JANAP Directives Concern over military personnel releasing details of UFOs came to a head with the publication of a report by the Joint Army/Navy/Air Force Publication (JANAP). The JANAP Directive states that anyone discussing UFO sightings with the media or the public was liable to 10 years imprisonment and/or $10,000 fine. These directives came into force in February 1954. One Directive JANAP-146 relates to CIRVIS (Communication Instructions for Reporting Vital Intelligence Sightings). It states: "All persons aware of the contents of the service report are governed by the Communications Act of 1934 and amendments thereto, and espionage laws. CIRVIS reports contain information affecting the national defense of the United States within the meanings of the espionage laws, 18 US Code 793 and 794. The authorized transmission or revelation of the contents of CIRVIS reports in any manner is prohibited." These law clearly prevent most sightings from being reported to the public. Those that do are quickly "debunked" by quasi- scientific explanations that the general public are more than willing to accept. - Joseph Daniels --- . SLMR 2.1a . Can I put you on hold?... Bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz... Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12872 alt.alien.visitors:11273 alt.religion.kibology:4815 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!torn!nott!cunews!revcan!geovision!news From: news@geovision.gvc.com (News Administrator) Subject: Re: Big Bird Message-ID: <1992Nov22.184423.1029@geovision.gvc.com> Reply-To: pt@geovision.gvc.com Organization: Not officially GeoVision Systems Inc., Ottawa, Ontario References: <67397@cup.portal.com> <69886@cup.portal.com> <70026@cup.portal.com> Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 18:44:23 GMT Lines: 19 John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: > This place turned out to be up a certain canyon on Mission Peak near >Fremont, Calif. It turned out to be that this nest was made out of a large >tree that had been knocked down and then something had trampled down the >large branches of the tree and had placed smaller pieces of branches on top Isn't amazing how these new-age kooks never have cameras with them when they go looking for something like this. Or if they do, the pictures were ``stolen by the US Airforce Project Bluebook'' or some such hokey. To quote from the book "Mountain Bike", by William Nealy: ``If you find yourself among a buch of New Age kooks, a skull cap hastily constructed from aluminium foil will give the rider some protection from geek-wave radiation!'' -- Paul Tomblin, News Administrator Extraordinaire. (pt@geovision.gvc.com) I just administer the news, I don't make or state policy. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12874 alt.alien.visitors:11274 sci.skeptic:34607 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Alien Ships. Message-ID: <70056@cup.portal.com> Date: Sun, 22 Nov 92 15:38:31 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> Lines: 65 Subject: Aliens in Our Sky. I will now put down a list of some of the aliens that are seen in UFOs in our sky. 1. Grey Type A. Also known as Zeta Reticuli from the Zeta Reticulan star system (The Bernard Star) neighboring the Orion area. 2. Greysof the hawkish, abrupt, crude and blunt temperment. 3. The master race of reptilian=type aliens. They boss the greys around. 4. Tall greys from Orion. Usually about 7 to 8 ft. tall. They have large noses. These grey are less viscous towards humans than the smaller greys but are still considered hostile. 5. Grey type C. These are the shortest of the greys and tend to be about 3.5 ft. tall. They are just as hostile to humans as the Zetas. They are from a star system near the shoulder of Orion called Bellatrax. 6. Human type A. These are of a genetic base similar to humans of earth. They appear of normal height (5 to 6 ft. ) and tend to be fair-skinned with blonde hair. These entities have been abducted by the greys or are the offspring of abductees and have been trained by the greys as servants. These entities are totally subservient to the greys. 7. Human type B. These are aliens of similar genetics to earth humans. These are from the Pleiades and are also of the blond, fair skinned appearance. This type is of a genuine highly spiritual, benevolent variety and have a kinship toward humans and are the only aliens to be truly trusted by earth human at this time (except the other good guys). They had at one time offered to be of assistance to earth leaders in dealing with the alien situation here but were rebuffed and so have taken a kind of hands off approach for the time being. These aliens are supposedly the forefather of our race of humankind. 8. Human Type C. Beings from Sirius who are benevolent to earth people. 9. Good guys from Vega 10. " " " Arcturas. 11. Mt. Shasta - the Silver Fleet, Lemurian. 12. " " another Fleet I can't remember the name. Some of these people are formerly from Atlantis. 13. People from inside our Earth. 14. Jupiter - the Adamic Race. 15. Venus, about 5 races and colors. (nord or nordic people because they are blonde and look like Swedish people). 16. Venus 17. " 18. " 19. " 20. Mars (the forefathers of the Chinese race on Earth). 21. Aldeberon the makers of the generators and motors under the Great Pyramid of Egypt. Third planet from the star (sun) Aldeberon. 22. The Five Galaxy Cross from Legart and about 2 other planets in that system that contain a total of 9 billion people. They are about 17 light years away. Jarton is a person from there. 23. Five Galaxy Cross. 24. " " " 25, Shamballa. 26. Rainbow City at the South Pole. 27. The Seven Cities of Shan. 28. Crystal City- in orbit around the Earth-300 miles square. 29. The New Jerusaleum - 1500 miles square. 30. The other side of the Moon. 31. Satonians. 32. Wormwood- should be coming around soon. 33. Ashtar Command-many places many people, mostly of the 4th and higher dimensions. 34. A planetoid of the Meteorite Belt. What is left of Maldek after it blew up. 35. Clarion. 37. Satilites of some of our large planets. 38. Trandor-headquarters of the Solar Cross organization. There are over 100 places that people are coming from to observe Earth. John Winston. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!munnari.oz.au!metro!usage!syacus!steven From: steven@syacus.acus.oz.au (Steven Malikoff) Subject: Re: JW Message-ID: <1992Nov23.024909.22457@syacus.acus.oz.au> Organization: ACUS Australian Centre for Unisys Software, Sydney References: <3576@evil.demon.co.uk> Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 02:49:09 GMT Lines: 17 fis@evil.demon.co.uk (fis) writes: : I suggest we have a whip round so that we can hire someone to pay a visit : to Mr J Winston. : On their arrival their duty would be to shove the largest object in the : vicinity down his THROAT! : JOHN - YOU'RE DOING OUR HEADS IN, AND WE WISH YOU WERE DEAD. : fis@evil.demon.co.uk Well said. I never thought that a kill file would be so necessary, and have tolerated many different opinions on the net. However, the stupid postings of JW have incensed me to the point that the first (and only) pattern in my kill file has become *_-_*. Now, if only I could filter the threads that include his postings, too. Steve Malikoff. steven@syacus.acus.oz.au Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12875 alt.alien.visitors:11276 sci.skeptic:34612 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!sun4nl!hacktic!blackhl!stycx!peter From: peter@stycx.hacktic.nl (Author) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: Date: Sun, 22 Nov 92 08:11:34 PST References: <69899@cup.portal.com> Organization: River of Doom. Running through Central Holland Lines: 26 John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: > Dear Deep Thinkers: Here it is friday and we're still talking and > have not killed one another yet, so that is a step in the right > direction. Do you realize how many people have been killed in the > past just because they brought up the subjects we are talking about. > Free speech is a great gift. > John Winston. Well I think you are right, indeed a great number of people have been murdered for transcending the boundries of that what is considered to be normal, corresponding to majority opinion. Freedom of speech, yes that's a great thing, however I'masking myself how much did actually change? Let's face it, in our enlightened times, a person who deviates from the norm is to be considered disturbed and fit for treatment. How many good and honest people are unwilling to talk about experiences because of a justified fear to be ridiculed and the very real possibility finding themselves out of a job. Greetings Peter. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- peter@stycx.hacktic.nl (5W) Crawling out from the river of darkness into your own private pinball machine Call STYCX (Waffle 1.65) from 23:00 to 06:00 Central European Time Number +31-3404-59551 Newkid Intown the nastiest Sysop arround Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12876 alt.alien.visitors:11277 sci.skeptic:34613 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!sun4nl!hacktic!blackhl!stycx!peter From: peter@stycx.hacktic.nl (Author) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Past Life regression - the proof (was GSI Day) Keywords: Reality / Truth Message-ID: Date: Sun, 22 Nov 92 08:25:47 PST References: <1992Nov20.141825.18978@ntb.ch> Organization: River of Doom. Running through Central Holland Lines: 18 > ACIM says ALL material is illusion! I think that the notion that that what is manifest in the explicate order is essentially illusionary, is a very valid one. The cause of this illusion finds its origin in the way the biological brain percieves its surroundings. The interpretation of external stimuli is to be understood as a process matching these stimuli whitin the context of a premeditated world model. We all know that a model is an abstaction of that what is actual. It is than justified to say that the model is but an approximation of actuallity and therefor illusionary. It allows us to maintain ourselves within our every day environment but it most certainly does not provide us with a means to give a conclusive answer to what is actual and what is not. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- peter@stycx.hacktic.nl (5W) Crawling out from the river of darkness into your own private pinball machine Call STYCX (Waffle 1.65) from 23:00 to 06:00 Central European Time Number +31-3404-59551 Newkid Intown the nastiest Sysop arround Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!uwm.edu!rutgers!noao!amethyst!organpipe.uug.arizona.edu!helium!corleyj From: corleyj@helium.gas.uug.arizona.edu (Jason D Corley ) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: I know why thier here! Message-ID: <1992Nov23.051744.13297@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu> Date: 23 Nov 92 05:17:44 GMT References: Sender: news@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu Organization: University of Arizona UNIX Users Group Lines: 5 I think we should include this section in every alt.alien.visitors post from now on. But I think we should put it at the TOP!!! Jason The Dsylexia Si Your Freind Foundtaion Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!uwm.edu!rutgers!noao!amethyst!organpipe.uug.arizona.edu!helium!corleyj From: corleyj@helium.gas.uug.arizona.edu (Jason D Corley ) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Wake up to reality Message-ID: <1992Nov23.052256.13378@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu> Date: 23 Nov 92 05:22:56 GMT References: <1553.479.uupcb@homebase.com> <1992Nov17.164138.23670@tamsun.tamu.edu> <1992Nov21.201400.21960@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> Sender: news@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu Organization: University of Arizona, Tucson, AZ Lines: 19 In article <1992Nov21.201400.21960@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> jnielsen@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (John F Nielsen) writes: >In article <1992Nov17.164138.23670@tamsun.tamu.edu> cjr6495@tamsun.tamu.edu (Opera_Ghost) writes: > >I cannot disprove that a purple red wood with candy canes for leaves >exists in Australia. However, that does not make it unreasonable >to say that it does not exist. Without any proof an alien is in >the same catagory as the purple redwood. > >john PURPLE CANY-CANE REDWOODS are the secret 8TH signs of the APOCALYPSE that will come from the planet XTHLU in the constellation MICROSCOPII, as predicted by the great NOSTRADAMUS and confirmed by BUZZ ALDRIN'S communication with the GREYS in 1969!!!!!!!! I have PROOF I have READ it in a BOOK written by INSIDE SOURCES who dare not reveal their REAL NAMES because of the "MIBS" who are actually supercomplex ROBOTS serving their HIDEOUS MASTERS' DARK BIDDING on EARTH!!!!!!!! Jason Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12877 alt.alien.visitors:11280 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!sgiblab!cs.uoregon.edu!news.uoregon.edu!news.u.washington.edu!hardy.u.washington.edu!pul From: pul@hardy.u.washington.edu (Arbaline) Subject: Re: Astral 1. Message-ID: <1992Nov23.064213.5006@u.washington.edu> Sender: news@u.washington.edu (USENET News System) Organization: University of Washington References: <69613@cup.portal.com> <658249251DN5.62R@testsys.isis.org> Distribution: na Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 06:42:13 GMT Lines: 31 In article <658249251DN5.62R@testsys.isis.org> doug@uuisis.isis.org writes: >Well, ya know, what I can't figure is that if these guys in the flying >saucers are so smart, why haven't they figured out how to do e-mail >yet and got linked to the internet? >uuisis!testsys!doug They have! You can do a lot as an ET is you are willing to enter a human body (be a Walk-in) or incarnate in a human family from birth (be what they call a Crawl-in). Most ET's choose to help us from spiritual planes or stay in their ships, but there are a few bold, excitement craving ones who like to get down and dirty and live among us in human bodies. Many New-agers or Star-people are in this category. Most know who they are but a few don't yet. Living in the dense, evolving aura of Earth can make one temporarily forget their cosmic origins, if they weren't already an ET Master when they came to Earth. Now, the Galactic Confederation doesn't land or show their ships openly to the masses because we of Earth are not collectively ready for it, and they are not allowed to interfere. However, since the ET's in human form fall under Earth's karmic law, they are allowed to openly spread their wisdom, sometimes admitting their origin causing others to think they are weird, and other times being more subtle. Of course, remember that many of we of Earth have lots of wisdom too and most of the ETs here are still learning themselves, too. At least that's the way I see it. -|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|- | Walter D. "Cruiser1" Pullen - pul@hardy.u.washington.edu. | -|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|- | "If you seek to be one of the Chosen, simply choose yourself!" - Solara | -|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|- Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!destroyer!cs.ubc.ca!unixg.ubc.ca!kakwa.ucs.ualberta.ca!ersys!wowee!kellym From: kellym@wowee.ersys.edmonton.ab.ca (Kelly Martin) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. Message-ID: Date: 22 Nov 92 23:10:55 MST Distribution: world Organization: Not an Organization X-NewsSoftware: GRn 1.16f (10.17.92) by Mike Schwartz & Michael B. Smith Lines: 30 In article <92320.155010SWK105@psuvm.psu.edu> Stephen Kuhn writes: > From: Rob Farquhar, temp. using this account. [...] > I won't tell you which of these has life around it, that would be cheating. > But I know. You see, I was "picked up" for the first time several years ago, a > nd taken to a small world one-eighth of the way around the galaxy. It is inhabi > ted by the Darvosians, the "little grey men" of myth and legend. They are non- > hostile, and very interested in the development of other species. They were mos > t cooperative and instructing (by the way, faster-than-light travel makes human > s nauseous). They informed me of the existence of the twelve starfaring races > of the galaxy (those species which have developed ftl travel. They include: I have always been interested in the idea that some race of aliens are truly devoted to the development of other species. Can you elaborate on that quite a bit? Couldn't they help the human race along (albeit, very slowly I'd expect) to a higher level of consciousness? Just to imagine being taken away to a foreign world is fascinating. I've never claimed anything of the sort, but somehow I really wish I could. What is the purpose of taking you and then bringing you back, memory intact? I would have said, "I'd give my left nut to experience something like that!" but I'm afraid someone might take me up on it. I wanted to post this in email, but apparently you were using someone else's account. -- %"Vhuuut, you donna' like'a my zooop?"-Fred Flintstone, impersonating a chef % kellY Martin UUCP:kellym@wowee.ersys.edmonton.ab.ca (1:342/53.5@fidonet) Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:11282 alt.butt.harp:318 alt.religion.kibology:4828 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!doc.ic.ac.uk!sot-ecs!lm89 From: lm89@ecs.soton.ac.uk (McIlhoney L) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.butt.harp,alt.religion.kibology Subject: Daft Stuff (was something about spacecraft in bed) Keywords: duh Message-ID: <13657@ecs.soton.ac.uk> Date: 23 Nov 92 10:07:52 GMT References: <69492@cup.portal.com> <1e58smINNfvc@ariel.ucs.unimelb.EDU.AU> Sender: news@ecs.soton.ac.uk Lines: 29 Nntp-Posting-Host: herbert In <1e58smINNfvc@ariel.ucs.unimelb.EDU.AU> rab@ariel.ucs.unimelb.EDU.AU (Richard Alan Brown) writes: >Whenever I feel a little jaded (like now, when I've spent the day marking >first year exam papers.. ) I wander over to sci.skeptic, and there he >is, blathering about out of body experiences, and his world famous >astral-train. That man was born with an intellectual kick-me sign tatooed >to his forehead. He should post to alt.peeves, and see how long his new-age >jabbering lasts. Those people in sci.skeptic are mighty polite to him (why >*is* that), but there's one thing you can say for him, he's reliable. Hmm, I know the sort of thing you mean. Do you reckon he writes the lyrics for the B52s? As in ... "On a bus To another place, To the UFO and to outer space baby Is that you Bo Dean? It's me Bo Dean! The inter-dimensional Outer space Beam." Sorry, it's Monday morning and the weather in Southampton is crap, so you'll have to forgive me for this utter *@#$. -- Lawrence McIlhoney Esq., Department of Electronics University of Southampton, United Kingdom "Vegetable Rights E-mail lm89@uk.ac.soton.ecs and Peace!" Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!spool.mu.edu!uunet!pipex!warwick!str-ccsun!dct.ac.uk!ccdarg From: ccdarg@dct.ac.uk (Alan Greig) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Test Message-ID: <1992Nov23.100932.1670@dct.ac.uk> Date: 23 Nov 92 10:09:32 GMT References: <92325.175708K3032E2@ALIJKU11.BITNET> Organization: Dundee Institute of Technology Lines: 11 In article <92325.175708K3032E2@ALIJKU11.BITNET>, K3032E2@ALIJKU11.BITNET (Mutter Christoph Johannes) writes: > This is only a test? Nevermind (NIRVANA). Surely Lithium (Nirvana) ;-) -- Alan Greig Janet: Alan@UK.AC.DUNDEE-TECH Dundee Institute of Technology Internet: Alan@DCT.AC.UK Tel: (0382) 308810 Int: +44 382 308810 -- There is only one true conspiracy -- Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!spool.mu.edu!uunet!pipex!warwick!str-ccsun!dct.ac.uk!ccdarg From: ccdarg@dct.ac.uk (Alan Greig) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: JW Message-ID: <1992Nov23.102137.1673@dct.ac.uk> Date: 23 Nov 92 10:21:37 GMT References: <3576@evil.demon.co.uk> Organization: Dundee Institute of Technology Lines: 28 In article <3576@evil.demon.co.uk>, fis@evil.demon.co.uk (fis) writes: > I suggest we have a whip round so that we can hire someone to pay a visit > to Mr J Winston. > > On their arrival their duty would be to shove the largest object in the > vicinity down his THROAT! > > JOHN - YOU'RE DOING OUR HEADS IN, AND WE WISH YOU WERE DEAD. > > fis@evil.demon.co.uk It should be pointed out here as a public service announcement that 'fis' is a prick of astounding proportions and I'm not given to hyperbole. For those who have been fortunate enough to avoid him so far his normal topics of discussion include his hero worship of Adolph Hitler, Satan and unmitigated hatred for anyone and everyone else. Sexual fantasys concerning chickens tend to rate highly on his agenda as well. Sometimes known as njones (Neil Jones) which might actually be his real name... -- Alan Greig Janet: Alan@UK.AC.DUNDEE-TECH Dundee Institute of Technology Internet: Alan@DCT.AC.UK Tel: (0382) 308810 Int: +44 382 308810 -- There is only one true conspiracy -- Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12879 alt.alien.visitors:11285 sci.skeptic:34622 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.unomaha.edu!cwis!stone From: stone@cwis.unomaha.edu (Travis Stone) Subject: Re: Invisible Baby Message-ID: Sender: news@news.unomaha.edu (UNO Network News Server) Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <70029@cup.portal.com> Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 14:20:36 GMT Lines: 8 Tell me something, John-O: How often do you oil that spring attached to the cuckoo that pops out of your forehead? Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12880 alt.alien.visitors:11286 sci.skeptic:34625 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!rosevax!aquarius!grante From: grante@aquarius.rosemount.com (Grant Edwards) Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: <1992Nov20.221948.25518@rosevax.rosemount.com> Sender: news@rosevax.rosemount.com (USENET News administrator) Nntp-Posting-Host: aquarius Reply-To: grante@aquarius.rosemount.com (Grant Edwards) Organization: Rosemount, Inc. References: <1992Nov19.170547.15348@rhrk.uni-kl.de> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 22:19:48 GMT Lines: 17 kring@efes.physik.uni-kl.de (Thomas Kettenring) writes: : In article <1992Nov18.175221.17658@rosevax.rosemount.com>, grante@aquarius.rosemount.com (Grant Edwards) writes: : >Sorry, there have been plenty of double-blind tests whose protocols were : >approved by astrologers in advance. The results were ALL negative. : : Could you please give references, if possible? I think this belongs in the : FAQ... : I'll work on digging up some references. If anybody out there has any references handy, e-mail them to me, and I'll compile them. -- Grant Edwards |Yow! You can't hurt me!! I Rosemount Inc. |have an ASSUMABLE MORTGAGE!! | grante@aquarius.rosemount.com | Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12882 alt.alien.visitors:11287 sci.skeptic:34631 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!sdd.hp.com!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!cs.uiuc.edu!m.cs.uiuc.edu!cs.uiuc.edu!mcgrath From: mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu (Robert McGrath) Subject: Re: Past Life regression - the proof (was GSI Day) Message-ID: <1992Nov23.153921.25216@m.cs.uiuc.edu> Sender: news@m.cs.uiuc.edu (News Database (admin-Mike Schwager)) Reply-To: mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu Organization: University of Illinois, Dept of Computer Science References: <1egiutINNgkq@pith.uoregon.edu> <1992Nov20.012854.16274@unislc.uucp> Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 15:39:21 GMT Lines: 74 EC writes in part: | There are lots of books and articles dealing with past-life research. I refer | you to Ian Stevenson's "Twenty Cases Suggestive of Reincarnation" and "The | Search for Bridey Murphy" which was written (if memory serves) by a Boston | psychologist who originally set out to debunk the theory, and became a believer. | -- | Ed Carp | | Have you ever done any *real* research, or are you just talking through | your hat? Ever read J. B. Rhine's studies on the Bridey Murphy case? | Ever read Ian Stevenson's stuff? If you haven't done any real research | into the field, I respectfully submit that your opinion is nothing more | than that - opinion, and a misinformed one, at that. | -- | Ed Carp As other folks have already pointed out, Ian Stevenson's stuff and the Bridey Murphy case are VERY well known. Have YOU ever done any *real* research and read ANY psychology textbook on hypnosis? It doesn't look like it. Anyway, your call for rational examination of evidence is well taken, but becomes rather diluted by your later postings, such as: | | Unless backed up by a sizeable body of evidence. If I say that I have been | to location X, and seen Y, and ten people also go to location X and agree | that they see Y, I'd think that's pretty convincing evidence that what we | have here is a factual record. | -- | Ed Carp If you are claiming this has been done, then cite the record. So far as I know, even this trivial level of confirmation hasn't been established for most cases. This is due to the undeniable fact that, in most cases, "each subject who has undertaken this regression *knows* that the images they are seeing or remembering are _NOT_ produced due to a vivid imagination - they are memories."(quoting Mark Aggar) This belief is, of course, a "cognitive illusion", as it is well established that one's estimate of the accuracy of a recollection is uncorrelated with the actual accuracy of the memory. Again, read something about psychology (something written in the last 20 years, that is). | | James J. Lippard (lippard@skyblu.ccit.arizona.edu) wrote: | | : Regression subjects do not *know* that their recollections are not | : produced due to vivid imagination, confabulation, or cryptomnesia. | : Further, many subjects who believe that this is the case have had their | : recollections investigated and the sources have been found to be novels, | : stories told to them as children, and so forth (e.g., Bridey Murphy). | | Bridey Murphy was *not* out of a novel or a story told to them when | they were a child. That hypothesis was pure speculation. | -- | Ed Carp ...which shows that you haven't done your homework. You really shouldn't hang your hat on the BM case, as it is very well known to be a classic case of forgotten childhood memories being recalled as previous lives. (I wouldn't recommend hanging your hat on ANY of Rhine's cases, as most have been discarded or debunked long ago. This is no reflection on the character of the Rhines, as they were nice people. Their data is simply out of date.) I support your call for doing some reasearch on this topic before dismissing it out of hand. Perahps you will take your own advice and examine the well known criticisms of the cases you cite as evidence, and examine what psychologists have learned about memory and hypnosis. You may not be aware of the research that underlies the terms that JJL used ("imagination, confabulation, or cryptomnesia"), but there is some pretty gosh-durned interesting science about these things that has been done in the past 25 years. Check it out. Robert E. McGrath Urbana Illinois mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!caen!uunet!pipex!demon!cix.compulink.co.uk!asm332 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors From: asm332@cix.compulink.co.uk (Sean Eaton) Subject: FAQ Frequency. Cc: asm332@cix.compulink.co.uk Reply-To: asm332@cix.compulink.co.uk Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 15:49:00 +0000 Message-ID: Sender: usenet@gate.demon.co.uk Lines: 14 Considering the size of the FAQ, would it be better to post it once a month instead of every two weeks ? Any additions or amendments could be posted to the net on their own when they're written and the full FAQ, integrating those amendments, could be published when the next full-posting was due. Most newsgroups that have a FAQ publish it on the first day of each month. If there was an ftp site willing to carry it then it would eliminate having to post it network-wide every time someone asks "Is there a FAQ ?" (Phoenix.oulu.fi perhaps ?) -Sean. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12883 alt.alien.visitors:11289 sci.skeptic:34635 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!sun-barr!olivea!spool.mu.edu!news.nd.edu!mentor.cc.purdue.edu!noose.ecn.purdue.edu!samsung!balrog!ctron.com From: smith@ctron.com (Lawrence C Smith) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Alien Ships. Message-ID: <6006@balrog.ctron.com> Date: 23 Nov 92 16:01:10 GMT References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <70056@cup.portal.com> Sender: usenet@balrog.ctron.com Reply-To: smith@ctron.com Followup-To: talk.religion.newage Organization: Cabletron Systems, Inc. Lines: 96 Nntp-Posting-Host: glinda In article <70056@cup.portal.com>, John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >Subject: Aliens in Our Sky. > I will now put down a list of some of the aliens that are seen in UFOs in >our sky. This stuff belongs in rec.arts.sf.misc, John. >...kinship toward humans and are the only aliens to be truly trusted by earth >human at this time (except the other good guys). That's good to know, especially that we should trust the other good guys, too. >10. " " " Arcturas. Not Arcturus, huh? >11. Mt. Shasta - the Silver Fleet, Lemurian. I've always loved lemurs, their fur looks sooo soft... >12. " " another Fleet I can't remember the name. Some of these people >are formerly from Atlantis. Really? Is there anyone _currently_ from Atlantis? >13. People from inside our Earth. From Pellucidar, no doubt. _Lovely_ place to visit astrally, have you tried it, John? Spent a couple years there one weekend... >14. Jupiter - the Adamic Race. Good swimmers, that Adamic Race. They don't mind the cold or the lack of oxygen, either. >15. Venus, about 5 races and colors. (nord or nordic people because they are >blonde and look like Swedish people). That's funny, with a surface temperature of around 800 degrees, I'd expect they'd all be black - burned black. >20. Mars (the forefathers of the Chinese race on Earth). No, the forerunners of the Chinese came from the Moon, and it's pronounced "Ma Gong". And Earth is "Du Gong". This was all explained by Otis Adelbert Kline. >21. Aldeberon the makers of the generators and motors under the Great Pyramid >of Egypt. Third planet from the star (sun) Aldeberon. Not Aldebaran? >26. Rainbow City at the South Pole. Never observed by any antarctic expedition, I take it. >28. Crystal City- in orbit around the Earth-300 miles square. Not that anyone noticed it. Must be invisible? Yes, that's the ticket! Yeah...it's..._cloaked_ - like a Klingon! >30. The other side of the Moon. Now _there's_ a clever and inventive place to have aliens come from. Someone should write a movie script about it! "Let's see, Plan 8 didn't work, so what shall we try next?" >31. Satonians. But not the Satinians, who can't be coaxed out of bed... >32. Wormwood- should be coming around soon. I've been expecting them any day... >34. A planetoid of the Meteorite Belt. What is left of Maldek after it blew up. Funny, the astronomers that still hold with that theory call it "Marduk". >35. Clarion. The software company?! >38. Trandor-headquarters of the Solar Cross organization. It's "Trantor", and it's the capital of the _whole_galaxy_. Criminy, John, if you're going to plagerize Asimov, at least do it right. >There are over 100 places that people are coming from to observe Earth. Christ, the galaxy must be _boring_. Larry Smith (smith@ctron.com) No, I don't speak for Cabletron. Need you ask? - Liberty is not the freedom to do whatever we want, it is the freedom to do whatever we are able. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12884 alt.alien.visitors:11290 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: UFOs and Newage Message-ID: <70101@cup.portal.com> Date: Mon, 23 Nov 92 08:02:21 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) Distribution: world References: <64264@cup.portal.com> <69579@cup.portal.com> Lines: 9 Dear People: I might add that Mr. Miller is a person who took a ride on a flat bottomed flying saucer in the past. He put down a lot of information by ESP (except he called it tensor beam) and put this in a book called Star Wards. He and his group got so much trouble from certain people that the Solar Cross Group (which consists of his friends and others) choose not to deal with the subject of UFOs any more very much. They are a very good group and I know some of their people in San Jose, Calif. John Winston. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12885 alt.alien.visitors:11291 alt.religion.kibology:4832 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology Subject: Re: Big Bird Message-ID: <70104@cup.portal.com> Date: Mon, 23 Nov 92 08:18:16 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <67397@cup.portal.com> <69886@cup.portal.com> <70026@cup.portal.com> <1992Nov22.184423.1029@geovision.gvc.com> Lines: 5 Dear People: Can anyone enlighten me on the proper spelling of the word Forengi, the type of people who are shown on Star Trek the Next Generation who are traders. For some reason or another when I hear the comment from the Kiboites I think of these type people. John Winston. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12886 alt.alien.visitors:11292 sci.skeptic:34638 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: <70100@cup.portal.com> Date: Mon, 23 Nov 92 07:50:45 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> Lines: 8 Dear Humans: Boy that comment of Walter D. P. was so good he should go out and etch it on a rock so future generations would know that one person had his head screwed on right during our generation. To answer the question about how the space people use the word abort, they mainly use it the same way we do and use it to show when you stop a missile firing. I'm glad someone put the information down about order 200-2. We're getting some good comments. Keep it up. John Winston. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Auras Message-ID: <70102@cup.portal.com> Date: Mon, 23 Nov 92 08:09:47 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <722328008.0@iphase.infoserv.com> Lines: 5 Dear Aura Watchers: I believe you will find this earth is going to last for quite a while and have an aura. If it should blow up it will go to pieces and come back together as a part of some other planet or sun. Nothing dies as far as I have been told. John Winston. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12887 alt.alien.visitors:11294 sci.skeptic:34639 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!Don_-_Showen From: Don_-_Showen@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Past Life regression - the proof (was GSI Day) Message-ID: <70103@cup.portal.com> Date: Mon, 23 Nov 92 08:15:52 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Nov20.141825.18978@ntb.ch> Lines: 17 I find it absolutely amazing how several someones can negate and deny their spirituality by saying reincarnation does not exist and be proud of it! I thought all the Nazis had reincarnated into Scientology, but I guess it does make since some would come back as alleged scientests. Since reincarnation has been a natural law, long, long before science. It is up to Science to prove it does not exist. I have been assisting folks to remember their other lives for over twenty years. I use biofeedback and ,excuse the unscientific term, love. I used to do skeptics but no matter how many past lives they would remember they always negated their own experience afterwards so basically I found it a waste of time to deal with them. No one but you is going to hold you accountable for what you have done in your other lives, so do not worry they will not put you on trial. Go ahead notice your other lives, that is where your richness and depth is. To me the only purpose of science is to affirm and exploit our connection to creation. Don Showen Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12888 alt.alien.visitors:11295 sci.skeptic:34644 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!jvnc.net!netnews.upenn.edu!grip.cis.upenn.edu!jmv From: jmv@grip.cis.upenn.edu (Jean-Marc Vezien) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Past Life regression - the proof (was GSI Day) Message-ID: <98875@netnews.upenn.edu> Date: 23 Nov 92 17:39:31 GMT References: <1992Nov20.141825.18978@ntb.ch> <70103@cup.portal.com> Sender: news@netnews.upenn.edu Followup-To: talk.religion.newage Organization: GRASP Lab Lines: 49 Nntp-Posting-Host: grip.cis.upenn.edu In article <70103@cup.portal.com>, Don_-_Showen@cup.portal.com writes: > I find it absolutely amazing how several someones can negate and deny their > spirituality by saying reincarnation does not exist and be proud of it! I > thought all the Nazis had reincarnated into Scientology, but I guess it > does make since some would come back as alleged scientests. As a scientist and a skeptic, I take this as a personal insult. Although I wasn't involved in the discussion so far, NOTHING has been said that could relate any of the speakers to Nazis. Please precise your accusations, or fuck the hell off. >Since > reincarnation has been a natural law, long, long before science. It is > up to Science to prove it does not exist. Here we go again. Could you please wake up for a minute (I know reality is harsh, but facing it once in a while is an healthy exercise). YOU HAVE TO PROVE YOUR CLAIMS, SCIENCE (whatever the entity could be - I prefer to refer to scientists) DOESN'T HAVE TO ( and for that matter cannot) DISPROVE THEM. I have been assisting folks to > remember their other lives for over twenty years. I use biofeedback and > ,excuse the unscientific term, love. I used to do skeptics but no matter > how many past lives they would remember they always negated their own > experience afterwards so basically I found it a waste of time to deal with > them. No one but you is going to hold you accountable for what you have > done in your other lives, so do not worry they will not put you on trial. > Go ahead notice your other lives, that is where your richness and depth > is. To me the only purpose of science is to affirm and exploit our > connection to creation. Aside from the typical New Age crap you're so found of, could you please substanciate ONE of the "past lives experiences" you've witnessed ? Other than some vague recollection of events ? No you can't, and that's all this whole thing is about. On the contrary, numerous studies have shown that some "past lives memories" are nothing but childhood recollections, or pieces of imagination. This doesn't disprove your hypothesis, it simply warns us to be careful before jumping into the twilight zone. > > Don Showen JM. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12889 alt.alien.visitors:11296 sci.skeptic:34647 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!news.service.uci.edu!ttinews!avatar!sorgatz From: sorgatz@avatar.tti.com (sorgatz) Subject: Re: Tea. Message-ID: <1992Nov23.181053.12280@ttinews.tti.com> Sender: usenet@ttinews.tti.com (Usenet Admin) Nntp-Posting-Host: avatar.tti.com Organization: Transaction Technology Inc. References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <69757@cup.portal.com> Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 18:10:53 GMT Lines: 19 In article <69757@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >Dear Deep Thinkers: How about all of you people coming over to my >house 100,000 years from now. We'll laugh about all of this and >drink some bubble up and eat some rainbow stew? >John Winston. THAT'S IT! NOW I KNOW WHO YOU ARE! "John Winston"...HA! "Rainbow stew"?? ..don't you mean venison chili?!! Ok Ok...in case the rest of you haven't yet caught on...he's actually KEN KESEY!! NOW IT ALL MAKES SENSE...sure! Never trust a Prankster... ..hey Ken, pass that IT-290 would ya? -Avatar-> (aka: Erik K. Sorgatz) KB6LUY +-------------------------+ TTI(sorgatz@soldev.tti.com) * Think Eco, not EGO! * 3100 Ocean Park Blvd. Santa Monica, CA 90405 +-------------------------+ (OPINIONS EXPRESSED DO NOT REFLECT THE VIEWS OF CITICORP OR ITS MANAGEMENT!) Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12890 alt.alien.visitors:11297 sci.skeptic:34648 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!cs.uiuc.edu!m.cs.uiuc.edu!cs.uiuc.edu!mcgrath From: mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu (Robert McGrath) Subject: Re: Past Life regression - the proof (was GSI Day) Message-ID: <1992Nov23.182041.28924@m.cs.uiuc.edu> Sender: news@m.cs.uiuc.edu (News Database (admin-Mike Schwager)) Reply-To: mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu Organization: University of Illinois, Dept of Computer Science References: <1992Nov20.141825.18978@ntb.ch> <70103@cup.portal.com> Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 18:20:41 GMT Lines: 55 In article <70103@cup.portal.com>, Don_-_Showen@cup.portal.com writes: |> I find it absolutely amazing how several someones can negate and deny their |> spirituality by saying reincarnation does not exist and be proud of it! Better get used to it, son. |> I |> thought all the Nazis had reincarnated into Scientology, but I guess it |> does make since some would come back as alleged scientests. I seem to recall that it the Nazi's were awfully fond of reincarnation theory, along with a lot of other bogus ideas. Please discard your own "nazi"-ism before insulting others with that label. |> Since |> reincarnation has been a natural law, long, long before science. I guess I must have moved out of the jurisdiction of this law! Please do not attempt to impose your personal religious beliefs on me in the guise of "natural law" or anything else. (I note that "natural law" is another concept favored by radical rightists. Just who was it that was supposed to be nazi-like?) |> It is |> up to Science to prove it does not exist. Science has "proved" that. You just don't understand the "proof". Try to get outside your own preconceptions. |> I have been assisting folks to |> remember their other lives for over twenty years. I use biofeedback and |> ,excuse the unscientific term, love. I used to do skeptics but no matter |> how many past lives they would remember they always negated their own |> experience afterwards so basically I found it a waste of time to deal with |> them. No one but you is going to hold you accountable for what you have |> done in your other lives, so do not worry they will not put you on trial. |> Go ahead notice your other lives, that is where your richness and depth |> is. To me the only purpose of science is to affirm and exploit our |> connection to creation. Science has many purposes, including the revelation of the beauty and complexity of nature. Many feel that THIS is where the richness and depth of life lies, rather than in embracing discredited superstitions, no matter how attractive. I sorry that you are upset by the fact that some people think that reincarnation is a theory with no factual basis. I'm sure noone who holds this opinion bears you any personal ill will. I wish you would have the grace to tolerate people who do not share your religion. -- Robert E. McGrath Urbana Illinois mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12891 alt.alien.visitors:11298 sci.skeptic:34649 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!csus.edu!netcom.com!sheaffer From: sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer) Subject: Re: Greys, Good or Bad Message-ID: <1992Nov23.181003.18637@netcom.com> Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) References: <69561@cup.portal.com> Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 18:10:03 GMT Lines: 14 The only good Grey is a DEAD Grey! They're vicious, woman-raping, child-eating varmints! -- Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - sheaffer@netcom.com Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized! "Beware when the great God lets loose a thinker on this planet. Then all things are at risk. It is as when a conflagration has broken out in a great city, and no man knows what is safe, or where it will end." - Emerson: Essay, "Circles" Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!olivea!stratus!florida!lpb From: lpb@florida.swdc.stratus.com (Len Bucuvalas) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Clari news bulletin Message-ID: <8576.18309@stratus.SWDC.Stratus.COM> Date: 23 Nov 92 18:21:21 GMT References: Sender: news@SWDC.Stratus.COM Lines: 35 In article aw2s+@andrew.cmu.edu (Andrew Todd Weinstein) writes: >I got this newsclip from yesterday on clari.news.headlines > > >[ The F-B-I is looking into allegations the national security was put >at grave risk because of lax security at a NASA research center in >Mountain View, California. An internal review suggests the facility was >left open to spies.] > >Does this have anything to do with ufo info and the govt. coverup of it, >or does this involve something else, any opinions?? The San Jose Mercury News did report that the FBI was afraid of........ "hostile intelligence forces." So let's revu this logically. 1) Of all nucler powers USA has chosen USSR (now Russia again) as the single threat to USA freedom 2) Iron Curtain is eliminated 3) Is it Lockheed or McDonnel-Douglas that has an aerospace research facility built just outside Moscow? So I ask you here (are you listening MJ12,CIA,FBI,NASA,Bush)....just what ARE these "hostile intelligence forces"?????? hmmmmmm???????? Len -- *@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@* The accountability of government has gone to the point where the very use of the law is the instrument of illegality. -- Ralph Nader @ Harvard Law School, 1/15/92 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!olivea!stratus!florida!lpb From: lpb@florida.swdc.stratus.com (Len Bucuvalas) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: I know why thier here! Keywords: The Sky is Falling Message-ID: <8577.21924@stratus.SWDC.Stratus.COM> Date: 23 Nov 92 18:30:40 GMT References: Sender: news@SWDC.Stratus.COM Lines: 25 Obfuscated fertilizer deleted... > Thank you, > Hitman > > >P.S. All writing above this line utter bullshit. Get a life. Aliens are not >comming to get us. You idiots are starting to sound crazy. None of you have >ever met an alien and never will. Go out, see movie, have some sex geeks. hmmmmmm....sounds like ve have a classic case of paranoid denial complicated mit de schitzophrenic transferrance of obsessive-compulsive anal-retentive behavior. hmmmm...I suggest zat you sign ze papers undt go for ze ride in ze ufo. Zick-Mund ;^) -- *@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@* The accountability of government has gone to the point where the very use of the law is the instrument of illegality. -- Ralph Nader @ Harvard Law School, 1/15/92 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!morale From: morale@jec303.its.rpi.edu (Enrique Morales) Subject: Re: Moon sightings Message-ID: Nntp-Posting-Host: jec303.its.rpi.edu References: <1992Nov18.191231.27299@alf.uib.no> Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 18:40:02 GMT Lines: 33 magnus@bark-fddi.ii.uib.no (Magnus Alvestad) writes: >>>>>> On Wed, 18 Nov 1992 11:32:14 GMT, coakley@cch.coventry.ac.uk >>>>>> (Cpl.Flash ) said: > Flash> looking at alien craft at the top of a crater? I > Flash> think armstrong said something like "..my god there's ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > Flash> hundreds of them". I'm not to sure because as i ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >No, no; he said 'Oh my god - it's full of stars!' - of course this was >cencored by the CIA. Dr Asimov, however, who was at that time involved ^^^^^^^^^ >in a number of Top Secret projects, including the Philadelphia >project, later used it in his book '2001'. It's all there. >-Magnus Gosh!!! Where do you people get your info from??? First you reach silly conclusion fron a bad quote, then to top it off you attrubute the quote to the wrong author. Dr Asimov, may he rest in peace, did not write that. Arthur C. Clarke did in _his_ 2001:A Space Oddissey. You can't connect a simple book with its author. How are you going to prove/disprove the existence of aliens??? Sheeezzzz..... Enrique Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12892 alt.alien.visitors:11302 alt.religion.kibology:4835 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!olivea!bu.edu!dartvax!coos.dartmouth.edu!csquared From: csquared@coos.dartmouth.edu (C Squared) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology Subject: Re: Big Bird Message-ID: <1992Nov23.182821.2929@dartvax.dartmouth.edu> Date: 23 Nov 92 18:28:21 GMT References: <70026@cup.portal.com> <1992Nov22.184423.1029@geovision.gvc.com> <70104@cup.portal.com> Sender: news@dartvax.dartmouth.edu (The News Manager) Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH Lines: 10 Originator: csquared@coos.dartmouth.edu In article <70104@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >Dear People: Can anyone enlighten me on the proper spelling of the >word Forengi, the type of people who are shown on Star Trek the Next >Generation who are traders. For some reason or another when I hear the >comment from the Kiboites I think of these type people. >John Winston. That would be Forengif. C Squared | Whatf dof If knowf? Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12893 alt.alien.visitors:11303 sci.skeptic:34658 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!olivea!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!csus.edu!netcom.com!anson From: anson@netcom.com (Anson Kennedy) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Greys, Good or Bad Message-ID: <1992Nov23.190459.27082@netcom.com> Date: 23 Nov 92 19:04:59 GMT References: <69561@cup.portal.com> <1992Nov23.181003.18637@netcom.com> Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) Lines: 14 sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer) writes: > The only good Grey is a DEAD Grey! They're vicious, woman-raping, > child-eating varmints! Not only that, but they smell bad, too. -- Anson Kennedy anson@netcom.com Secretary of the Georgia Skeptics (but don't even THINK I speak for them!) "If you don't watch the violence, \ "If I had been the Virgin Mary, you'll never get desensitized to it." \ I would have said 'No.'" -Bart Simpson \ -Margaret "Stevie" Smith (1902-1971) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!noc.near.net!news.cs.brandeis.edu!binah.cc.brandeis.edu!CORBISIER From: corbisier@binah.cc.brandeis.edu Subject: Our Friend, John_-_Winston Message-ID: <1992Nov23.204110.10682@news.cs.brandeis.edu> Sender: news@news.cs.brandeis.edu (USENET News System) Reply-To: corbisier@binah.cc.brandeis.edu Organization: Brandeis University Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 20:41:10 GMT Lines: 21 John, I realize that you're getting flamed by what seems to be a vast majority of people posting to this BBS. I do not intend to do the same, although I _do_ think that some of your postings are irrelevant to the subject of a.a.v. If you would be so kind, would you mind posting answers to any or all of the following questions: 1. Where do you get your information? 2. How do you think things like "invisible fish" relate to the subject of U.F.O.'s? 3. What kind of a job do you have where you have _time_ all day to copy all this information to post? Please realize that this is not intended to make fun of you. These are questions that I truly wonder about, and I'm sure I can't be the only one. Thank you, Barb Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12895 alt.alien.visitors:11305 sci.skeptic:34666 alt.fan.lemurs:153 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!cs.utexas.edu!asuvax!ncar!noao!amethyst!organpipe.uug.arizona.edu!argon!corleyj From: corleyj@argon.gas.uug.arizona.edu (Jason D Corley ) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic,alt.fan.lemurs Subject: Re: Greys, Good or Bad Message-ID: <1992Nov23.210754.21572@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu> Date: 23 Nov 92 21:07:54 GMT References: <1992Nov23.181003.18637@netcom.com> <1992Nov23.190459.27082@netcom.com> Sender: news@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu Organization: University of Arizona, Tucson, AZ Lines: 9 In article <1992Nov23.190459.27082@netcom.com> anson@netcom.com (Anson Kennedy) writes: >sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer) writes: > >> The only good Grey is a DEAD Grey! They're vicious, woman-raping, >-Bart Simpson \ -Margaret "Stevie" Smith (1902-1971) And they eat lemurs for BRUNCH on every WEDNESDAY which is a SACRED DAY for them. Jason "Frank, bring me a ball-peen hammer and your skull." Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12896 alt.alien.visitors:11306 sci.skeptic:34667 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!asuvax!ncar!noao!arizona.edu!skyblu.ccit.arizona.edu!lippard Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Past Life regression - the proof (was GSI Day) Message-ID: <23NOV199214512468@skyblu.ccit.arizona.edu> From: lippard@skyblu.ccit.arizona.edu (James J. Lippard) Date: 23 Nov 1992 14:51 MST References: <1egiutINNgkq@pith.uoregon.edu> <1992Nov20.012854.16274@unislc.uucp> <1992Nov23.153921.25216@m.cs.uiuc.edu> Distribution: world,local Organization: University of Arizona Nntp-Posting-Host: skyblu.ccit.arizona.edu News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41 Lines: 39 In article <1992Nov23.153921.25216@m.cs.uiuc.edu>, mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu writes... >EC writes in part: >| There are lots of books and articles dealing with past-life research. I refer >| you to Ian Stevenson's "Twenty Cases Suggestive of Reincarnation" and "The >| Search for Bridey Murphy" which was written (if memory serves) by a Boston >| psychologist who originally set out to debunk the theory, and became a believer. >| -- >| Ed Carp >| >| Have you ever done any *real* research, or are you just talking through >| your hat? Ever read J. B. Rhine's studies on the Bridey Murphy case? >| Ever read Ian Stevenson's stuff? If you haven't done any real research >| into the field, I respectfully submit that your opinion is nothing more >| than that - opinion, and a misinformed one, at that. >| -- >| Ed Carp >As other folks have already pointed out, Ian Stevenson's stuff and >the Bridey Murphy case are VERY well known. Have YOU ever done any >*real* research and read ANY psychology textbook on hypnosis? It >doesn't look like it. I'm glad you posted this followup. I thought I remembered Carp making the above statement about the author of _The Search for Bridey Murphy_, but couldn't find it at the time I posted my criticisms of another Carp message. His memory does not serve him correctly; the author of _The Search for Bridey Murphy_ was a Pueblo, Colorado businessman and amateur hypnotist, not by a Boston psychologist. Perhaps he meant to refer to Dr. Milton V. Kline's anthology of papers, _A Scientific Report on "The Search for Bridey Murphy"_ (1956), but I believe that anthology is skeptical. (I could be wrong--Kline is the hypnosis researcher who claimed to the CIA that he could create a "Manchurian candidate" assassin for them, but all attempts to do so were a complete failure. This is discussed in Gordon Thomas's 1989 book, _Journey into Madness: The True Story of Secret CIA Mind Control and Medical Abuse_.) Jim Lippard Lippard@CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU Dept. of Philosophy Lippard@ARIZVMS.BITNET University of Arizona Tucson, AZ 85721 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!math.fu-berlin.de!uniol!tpki.toppoint.de!galki.toppoint.de!ulrich From: ulrich@galki.toppoint.de (Ulrich Gall) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Cayce's Pyramid Message-ID: Date: Mon, 23 Nov 92 20:03:50 GMT References: <64264@cup.portal.com> <69885@cup.portal.com> Distribution: world Organization: private UUCP site, Kiel, Germany Lines: 13 John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: > > Dear Folk: Tomorrow I should have some time to do some more posting. > John Winston. You are definitely out of shapes - just 10 postings today, not counting this really good one. -- Ulrich C. Gall, Seebrooksberg 2, W-2300 Klausdorf, Germany Tel.: +49-431-790292, EMail: ulrich@galki.toppoint.de Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!sun4nl!hacktic!blackhl!stycx!peter From: peter@stycx.hacktic.nl (Author) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: JW Message-ID: <6a6ouB2w165w@stycx.hacktic.nl> Date: Mon, 23 Nov 92 06:41:04 PST References: <3576@evil.demon.co.uk> Organization: River of Doom. Running through Central Holland Lines: 21 fis@evil.demon.co.uk (fis) writes: > I suggest we have a whip round so that we can hire someone to pay a visit > to Mr J Winston. > > On their arrival their duty would be to shove the largest object in the > vicinity down his THROAT! > > JOHN - YOU'RE DOING OUR HEADS IN, AND WE WISH YOU WERE DEAD. > > fis@evil.demon.co.uk > Well fis I'm strongly getting the feeling that you should find another newsgroup to free yourself of your obvious emotional problem. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- peter@stycx.hacktic.nl (5W) Crawling out from the river of darkness into your own private pinball machine Call STYCX (Waffle 1.65) from 23:00 to 06:00 Central European Time Number +31-3404-59551 Newkid Intown the nastiest Sysop arround Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!spool.mu.edu!sdd.hp.com!usc!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!ringer!lonestar.utsa.edu!sbooth From: sbooth@lonestar.utsa.edu (Simon E. Booth) Subject: Re: Our Friend, John_-_Winston Message-ID: <1992Nov24.051923.26585@ringer.cs.utsa.edu> Sender: news@ringer.cs.utsa.edu Nntp-Posting-Host: lonestar.utsa.edu Organization: University of Texas at San Antonio References: <1992Nov23.204110.10682@news.cs.brandeis.edu> Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1992 05:19:23 GMT Lines: 6 pardon me is this is a FAQ, but who is this John Winston character? (besides somone who apparently plagarizes sci-fi novels) Simon Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:11310 alt.religion.kibology:4846 talk.religion.newage:12901 Organization: Sophomore, Mechanical Engineering, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!uwm.edu!linac!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!cis.ohio-state.edu!news.sei.cmu.edu!fs7.ece.cmu.edu!crabapple.srv.cs.cmu.edu!andrew.cmu.edu!ml5a+ Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology,talk.religion.newage Message-ID: Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1992 01:42:25 -0500 From: Mark Beirne Lively Subject: Re: Big Bird In-Reply-To: <1992Nov23.182821.2929@dartvax.dartmouth.edu> References: <70026@cup.portal.com> <1992Nov22.184423.1029@geovision.gvc.com> <70104@cup.portal.com> <1992Nov23.182821.2929@dartvax.dartmouth.edu> Lines: 5 Ferengi, just like sounds. -I remember the the glory days when we sat with the king. Dining on meh yams and washing it down with red rum. ML5A@andrew.cmu.edu Bear aka the Lord High Rulebender Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!uunet.ca!hombas!joseph.daniels From: joseph.daniels@homebase.com (Joseph Daniels) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Underground Alien Facilities Message-ID: <1877.479.uupcb@homebase.com> Date: 24 Nov 92 02:26:00 GMT Distribution: world Organization: Home Base BBS - St. Thomas, Ontario - 519-633-7253 Reply-To: joseph.daniels@homebase.com (Joseph Daniels) Lines: 144 To: peter@stycx.hacktic.nl (Author) AU|I've been reading that there would be a number of underground facilities |for use by aliens in Arizona and New Mexico. Notably these facilities |would have been contructed underneath Native American Reservations. Is |there anyone out there who happens to know which reservations? Also I |would be interested to see if some of you, living in Arizona and New |Mexico, who have more information on this. `--------------------------------------------------------------------- Here is a file I found on InfoNet that might answer some of your questions. UFO skeptic, Jacques Vallee is interrogating the Ex-Naval Intelligence Officer, Bill Cooper. (Vallee's questions are in Capitals and Cooper's answers are not. Valle is quite skeptical and is trying to make Cooper 'slip up', but in my opinion Cooper does a good job of answering all the questions.) * * * THE BILL COOPER BRIEFING from the book "Revelations" by Jacques Vallee I've read your recent interview (in the MUFON Journal) where you say you don't believe in MJ-12, so it made me wonder why you wanted this meeting. - Bill Cooper THE INTERVIEW WAS DONE BEFORE I MET JOHN LEAR, BUT I WILL GRANT YOU THAT MY POSITION HASN'T CHANGED THAT MUCH. I BELIEVE THERE IS A UFO PHENOMENON WHICH IS PHYSICAL IN THE USUAL SENSE, BUT IT CAN MANIPULATE SPACE AND TIME IN WAYS I CERTAINLY DON'T UNDERSTAND; PERHAPS THERE ARE PEOPLE AROUND WHO UNDERSTAND IT. - Jacques Vallee They do, but go on... I FURTHER BELIEVE, AS DO YOU, THAT THE U.S. GOVERNMENT MUST HAVE BEEN STUDYING IT FOR YEARS. THAT DOES NOT MEAN THAT MJ-12 IS REAL. THERE IS A HALL OF MIRRORS ONE ENTERS AS SOON AS THE INTELLIGENCE COMMUNITY IS INVOLVED, AND WE'RE RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF IT. THEN I TALKED TO LINDA HOE AND FRED BECKMAN, BOTH OF WHOM RECOMMENDED THAT I LISTEN TO JOHN LEAR, WHO IS AN IMPRESSIVE FELLOW, AND HE SAID I SHOULD TALK TO YOU, AND HERE I AM. I became involved in the UFO question as a Naval Intelligence Man. In the period of 1971-72 I was ordered to brief several high-level officers about the contents of certain documents that were given to me. Those briefings had to do with the fact that a number of UFOs have been captured by the military and that their occupants have been working along with our scientists. We have entered into a treaty with them. YOU ARE GOING A LITTLE TOO FAST FOR ME. FIRST OF ALL, WHAT WAS YOUR POSITION IN THE NAVY? I was under Admiral Clarey, as a member of the Intelligence briefing team. WERE THE DOCUMENTS CLASSIFIED, AND AT WHAT LEVEL? They were classified Top Secret/S.I. WAS THERE A CODE WORD ATTACHED TO THEM? MAJIC, with a "J", was the code word. I am sure they changed it now. HOW LONG WAS THE BRIEFING, AND WHERE WAS IT GIVEN? There were several briefings, all of which took place at the Headquarters for Pacific Operations on the island of Hawaii. The building overlooks Pearl Harbor. The first briefing was a two- and-a-half-hour general overview, then there were periodic updates as new information came to light. WHY WERE THESE OFFICERS BEING BRIEFED? Because in their operational capacity, they had and immediate need to know. One, they might be required to recover some crashed disks in the future. Two, the UFOs might be misconstrued as offensive Soviet devices and fired upon, so they had to be aware of their existence. WERE THERE INSTANCES WHEN THE UFOS POSED A REAL THREAT? During the Vietnam War a UFO shot down a B-52. There were also cases when our troops were attacked by things they first thought were helicopters. There was some speculation at the time that the Russians must have entered the war on the North Vietnamese side, so it became a pretty serious matter. DID THE NAVY EVER PICK UP A DISK AFTER THAT? There was an incident in which I was an actual witness, involving the recovery of a craft that was later listed as a Soviet sub. I was in the command center when it happened, and I can assure you it was real. HAVE YOU YOURSELF EVER SEEN AN ALIEN? No. HAVE YOU EVEN SEEN PART OF A CRASHED DISK? No, but I know two different men who were assigned to guard crashed disks and who have spoken to me. HAVE YOU EVER SEEN UFOS YOURSELF? Once, in the late summer of 1966, I was on watch on board a submarine, the USS Tiru, SS-416, on the way to Seattle, and three of us saw a disk as large as an aircraft carrier rising out of the sea two and a half miles away on the port side. It rose and was lost in the clouds, then it came back down again. DID IT DISTURB THE OCEAN? Not really, the water would glide around it, as if it was drawn by a force field. WERE THERE BRIEFINGS GIVEN TO HIGH-ECHELON OFFICERS BEFORE 1971? There must have been, given the information in the documents. The text stated that the first secret project was established at Eisenhower's orders in 1953. Ike asked Rockefeller to help him in setting up an organization that could conduct a study without government agencies or Congress being aware of the situation. Rockefeller established it under the "Jasons", an elite intellectual group. The task force was composed of twelve men, including Kissinger, Dulles, Brzezinski, George Bush, and eight others, who became known as the the MJ-12 under operation Majority. WHERE DID THEY MEET? At a place called the Country Club. This way they could mention it openly without anyone knowing what they were talking about. It was a piece of land in Maryland which Rockefeller had set aside for the Jasons. It was only accessible through the air. >>> Continued to next message --- . SLMR 2.1a . InfoNet London (519)649-1453 Hit ^C and enter HELP at $ Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!uunet.ca!hombas!joseph.daniels From: joseph.daniels@homebase.com (Joseph Daniels) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: underground facilitie 2/4 Message-ID: <1878.479.uupcb@homebase.com> Date: 24 Nov 92 02:26:00 GMT Distribution: world Organization: Home Base BBS - St. Thomas, Ontario - 519-633-7253 Reply-To: joseph.daniels@homebase.com (Joseph Daniels) Lines: 147 >>> Continued from previous message AND THE INFORMATION THAT WAS KEPT SECRET HAD TO DO WITH UFOS SPECIFICALLY? With UFOs and with the Aliens. There are four types of aliens. There are two kinds of "Grays", including one race, not commonly seen, that has a large nose. Then there are the "Nordic" types, tall blonde Aryans, and finally the "Orange" ones. WHERE DO THEY COME FROM? I remember seeing several points of origin mentioned: Orion, the Pleiades, Betelgeuse, Barnard's star and Zeta Reticuli. YOU MENTIONED WE HAD A TREATY WITH THEM? Since 1964. WHY WOULD THEY GO TO THE TROUBLE OF ENTERING INTO A TREATY WITH US, SINCE THEIR TECHNOLOGY IS FAR AHEAD OF OURS? JOHN LEAR MENTIONED A BILLION YEARS. They needed the government to keep their presence secret. Remember, we had one of the Aliens in our custody. Our radar affected their navigation system and threw their craft off- balance. HOW ARE THEIR SHIPS POWERED? With a small nuclear reactor the size of a football. They use a space-time fold. I'm not a physicist, so I don't understand that. Apparently they have the ability to cloak themselves, to go invisible. WHAT KIND OF METAL DO THEY USE? In the early days it was pure magnesium. We couldn't duplicate it at the time, but now we could duplicate it in space, that's why there is so much interest in growing crystals in orbit. They use alloys that we can create on Earth but not with the same pliable structure. Do you know any of the astronauts? Ask any of the Apollo astronauts about the moon. What they saw there. There is an Alien base on the dark side of the moon. WHAT HAPPENED TO THE ALIEN THAT WAS CAPTURED? He died in 1952 after being ill for one year. The government tried to save him. They broadcast messages into space, asking that his people come and help. The result of that was the Holloman landing, on April 25, 1964, when another Alien came to work with our scientists. He gave us lots of information. The Aliens were desperate to have their presence on Earth kept secret. We agreed to that, in exchange for their technology. The Aliens were given permission to conduct abductions. They said they needed to do them on medical grounds. They were supposed to give MJ-12 the list of the humans they abducted. Then we began to realize they lied to us. WHERE ARE THE ALIENS NOW? At Area-51. Everybody thinks it is under control of the Air Force, because it's at Nellis Air Force Base in Nevada. But in reality Area-51 is under the Navy. The Navy has operational control of field activities on this project. That also includes Area-2, which was originally built as an underground storage area for the Atomic Energy Commission. WHAT ABOUT GROOM LAKE? Groom Lake is at Nellis, same thing. There is an Alien Technical Group at Nellis, and there is another one near Dulce, New Mexico, on an Indian reservation. HOW DO WE KNOW THAT'S TRUE? That's what the documents stated. It turns out there is a large magnetic anomaly where the base is. Perhaps ground-penetrating radar would show what's inside, allegedly it is all honeycombed with tunnels. The document explains how to get in, where the doors are. IS IT GUARDED? No, it's not guarded. That would only attract attention, they would have to explain what it is. But once you go in, you never come out. I can take you there if you want. WHAT WERE THE TWO DOCUMENTS THAT YOU USED FOR THE BRIEFINGS? CAN YOU DESCRIBE THEM? The thickest one was a book, about three-quarters of an inch thick, called "Grudge/Blue Book Report Number 13". People think Blue Book was under the Air Force, but it wasn't. Blue Book was under Grudge, which in turn was assigned to the Air Force to run. It had to do with abductees and implants. WHAT WAS THE OTHER DOCUMENT? It was an outline on Operation Majority, which also covered Blue Book. HAS ANYONE ELSE SEEN THESE DOCUMENTS? There is a man named Bill English who is in hiding near Albuquerque, and who has seen the same things I did. He is afraid for his life. They have already tried to kill him twice. The government blew up a van in which he was riding with two other fellows. They died, and he's lucky to have escaped. The only reason nothing happens to me is that I talk to people, I disseminate all the information I have. You must realize that for a long time I kept it all inside, because I thought it was in the interest of the country, and I had a high sense of duty. I don't have that sense anymore. It's all wrong. Too many people have been killed because of this. It's completely illegal, and we have been betrayed by the Aliens. We live under immense danger now. HOW DID THIS OTHER MAN, BILL ENGLISH, GET TO SEE THE DOCUMENTS? He was a captain in the U.S. Army, Special Forces. He was assigned as an information analyst at a British base. The document came in the regular pouch. He was not supposed to see it, it was an error in routing. So he was kicked out. Attempts were made on his life. He was ridiculed. Some people even said he was on LSD! WHAT DID YOU THINK OF THE 'COVER-UP" DOCUMENTARY, RELEASED BY SELIGMAN? It was part of the damned contingency plan, a deliberate attempt by the government to confuse people. Perhaps I shouldn't say this, but some of the participants are informers for the government. WHAT WAS THE PURPOSE OF THE DOCUMENTARY, THEN? To lead people away from the truth. All the Majestic-12 documents that Moore has presented were obvious fakes. It was done to discredit the people associated with that research. The whole thing read like a chapter in his book about the Roswell crash, there was nothing new in it. The pictures of Aliens were not right. And Majestic-12 was not formed by Truman, as they implied. DO YOU THINK IT IS EASY TO FOOL PEOPLE? >>> Continued to next message --- . SLMR 2.1a . InfoNet London (519)649-1453 Hit ^C and enter HELP at $ Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!uunet.ca!hombas!joseph.daniels From: joseph.daniels@homebase.com (Joseph Daniels) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: underground facilitie 3/4 Message-ID: <1879.479.uupcb@homebase.com> Date: 24 Nov 92 02:26:00 GMT Distribution: world Organization: Home Base BBS - St. Thomas, Ontario - 519-633-7253 Reply-To: joseph.daniels@homebase.com (Joseph Daniels) Lines: 151 >>> Continued from previous message The truth is so incredible...Look at this magnificent ship. (They were aboard the Queen Mary) Imagine the Queen Mary sailing past an island where the population was still living in the Stone Age. What would they say about it? That's our situation with respect to alien craft. PRECISELY. THE QUEEN MARY DOESN'T BOTHER TO ENTER INTO A TREATY WITH THE KING OF EVERY LITTLE ISLAND. AGAIN, BILL, I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY THE ALIENS WOULD NEED A FORMAL TREATY WITH US, IF THEY ARE SO ADVANCED. IT SEEMS TO ME THEY WOULD JUST IGNORE US COMPLETELY. They need to make sure the government would keep their existence from the public. I HAVE HEARD FROM JOHN, AND ALSO FROM LINDA HOWE, THAT THE NAME OF ALLEN HYNEK WAS MENTIONED IN REPORT-13? Mentioned? He was the co-author of the damned thing!!! Hynek was completely involved in it, in the study of the abductions and the implants. He even made the statement that one person in forty has been abducted and has received an implant. Of course, many more people have simply been abducted. The scary part is, what if the people who are in the government have all been implanted already? ALL I CAN TELL YOU IS THAT I KNEW HYNEK VERY WELL, AND THAT WHAT YOU SAY ABOUT HIM MAKES NO SENSE TO SOMEONE WHO KNEW THE MAN'S CHARACTER. And all I can tell you is what was in that document. Hynek's name was on the cover, and inside there were pictures of the Holloman landing, photos of Aliens, autopsy tables, and details of Project Red-light, where we actually try to fly their craft, and Project Snowbird, a cover for Red-light using conventional technology, and so on. By the way, their craft don't crash when they are disabled, they settle in the impact crater where the dirt has been pushed aside. THERE IS A CONTRADICTION HERE. BLUE BOOK, FROM WHAT I SAW, WAS MOSTLY A PUBLIC RELATIONS PROJECT. THERE WAS NO FOLLOW-UP ON CASES, IN FACT. HYNEK KEPT COMPLAINING ABOUT THAT. There was no follow-up because they already knew what those things were. But they still had to explain then to the public. One of the documents said specifically that he cases they can't explain should be referred to Philip Klass, who works in cahoots with the intelligence community. You know, things are never what they seem to be anymore. WHAT DO YOU THINK IS THE PURPOSE OF THE IMPLANTS? Nobody knows. When an attempt is made to remove them, the person dies. WAIT A MINUTE. IF THIS HAS BEEN GOING ON SINCE 1953, MANY OF THE IMPLANTED PEOPLE MUST ALREADY HAVE DIED OF PERFECTLY NATURAL CAUSES. IT WOULD BE A SIMPLE MATTER TO REMOVE THE IMPLANT DURING THE AUTOPSY AND STUDY IT. DON'T YOU THINK A PATHOLOGIST WOULD NOTICE IT AND BE INTRIGUED ENOUGH TO TAKE IT APART? (No Answer) BILL, IF WHAT YOU'RE TELLING ME CAN BE PROVEN, WE WILL HAVE TO RECONSIDER EVERYTHING WE KNOW ABOUT THIS PROBLEM. I HAVE NO QUESTION THAT YOU ARE TELLING ME WHAT YOU BELIEVE, AND IF YOU SAY YOU HAVE SEEN THIS REPORT-13, I AM WILLING TO TRUST YOU. BUT THE FACT THAT HYNEK'S NAME WAS ASSOCIATED WITH IT MAKES ME THINK THAT IT WAS A COMPLETE FABRICATION. I have seen the report myself and Hynek's name is on it. SO WHAT DO YOU THINK SHOULD BE DONE NOW? The information should be disseminated to the public, as widely as possible. DO YOU THINK THE PRESIDENT KNOWS? Yes, Bush must know, as a former member of MJ-12. Previous presidents were only told what THEY wanted them to know. The President would have to blurt it out in the middle of a press conference, before they were aware that he was going to say anything. Don't you see? If the information was released, the intelligence community would collapse. Nobody would ever trust those people again. As you know, Reagan classified everything about UFOs. Nobody who does any work with the government can talk about the subject, even if they do unclassified work. YOU CAN'T POSSIBLY MEAN THAT! FOR ONE THING, IT WOULD VIOLATE THE FIRST AMENDMENT. FOR ANOTHER, NO ONE WOULD OBEY SUCH AN ORDER. THE GOVERNMENT HASN'T EVEN DEFINED WHAT A UFO IS! IT WOULD BE LIKE YOUR ASKING ME TO KEEP SECRET WHAT WE HAD FOR DINNER TONIGHT, OR WHAT WE SAID TO EACH OTHER. YOU COULD NEVER FORCE ME TO DO IT. I HAVEN'T AGREED TO IT IN ADVANCE. FURTHERMORE THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO KNOW WHAT WE HAD FOR DINNER TONIGHT, SO I COULDN'T KEEP IT A SECRET EVEN IF I WANTED TO! Reagan ordered that no one doing any kind of business with the U.S. government must discuss UFOs. LET'S TALK MORE ABOUT THE ALIENS. WHY ARE THEY COMING HERE IN THE FIRST PLACE? There is a document about Project Aquarius that deals with the history of the Aliens and their interaction with Homo sapiens for the last twenty-five thousand years. This interaction culminated with the Basque culture and the Assyrans. But Project Aquarius was closed. Their planet has turned into a desert following a war they had with another race. They have been devastated, they are in evolutionary decline, their digestive system is atrophied. They come here in search of new genetic material. THAT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE! The government believes it! HOW LONG DO THE ALIENS LIVE? They told us they lived four hundred and fifty years. The live Alien who was left on Earth after Holloman was named Krll. He gave lots of information, scientific data, some of which was published in the open scientific literature under the name O. H. Krill, after being sanitized. Very advanced stuff. Krill is still alive. Their biology is well-understood. They are air-breathing creatures like us, although the heart is connected to their lungs as a single organ. Their digestive system is atrophied. They are chlorophyll-based, plant-like, if you will. They absorb nourishment through the skin, and they excrete through the skin too. WHAT ABOUT THEIR BRAINS? They have two brains, separated by a bone partition, but going into the same spinal cord. DO YOU KNOW ANY DOCTOR WHO MIGHT HAVE ATTENDED THE ALIENS OR DONE AN AUTOPSY? Look up the name Dr. Guillermo Mendoza. He nursed the one Alien who died. He was a biologist, not an M.D. By the way, they did feed the Alien ice cream, which he could eat in small quantities through a membrane in his mouth, and he did like strawberry. And he was partial to Tibetan music. That part of the Seligman "Cover-Up" documentary was true. HOW DO THEY COMMUNICATE? >>> Continued to next message --- . SLMR 2.1a . InfoNet London (519)649-1453 Hit ^C and enter HELP at $ Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!uunet.ca!hombas!joseph.daniels From: joseph.daniels@homebase.com (Joseph Daniels) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: underground facilitie 4/4 Message-ID: <1880.479.uupcb@homebase.com> Date: 24 Nov 92 02:26:00 GMT Distribution: world Organization: Home Base BBS - St. Thomas, Ontario - 519-633-7253 Reply-To: joseph.daniels@homebase.com (Joseph Daniels) Lines: 26 >>> Continued from previous message Among themselves, they communicate telepathically. They use a translation device with us. When they first came, they contacted our scientists in binary code. You know, I'm not a religious man. But if you look at the Bible. The Angels could be the Nordic types and the Grays could well be the demonic ones. After all, the Bible talks about a pact with the Devil in the last days, after Israel is reinstated. Leading to Armageddon. WHAT DID THE ALIENS HAVE TO SAY ABOUT THAT? The information they gave us wasn't just scientific data. They provided much on the occult side. They claimed that had a lot to do with our religion. They spoke about witchcraft and cults on Earth. SO WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO ABOUT ALL THAT? I am going to get the information out. I have resigned from my job. To begin with, I'm organizing a symposium at Anaheim. The profits will be used to build up a reward fund for those who want to come up and reveal what they know. Then I'll take the symposium to all the major cities. --- . SLMR 2.1a . InfoNet London (519)649-1453 Hit ^C and enter HELP at $ Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!uunet.ca!hombas!joseph.daniels From: joseph.daniels@homebase.com (Joseph Daniels) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: CONTACT NOTES Message-ID: <1881.479.uupcb@homebase.com> Date: 24 Nov 92 02:35:00 GMT Distribution: world Organization: Home Base BBS - St. Thomas, Ontario - 519-633-7253 Reply-To: joseph.daniels@homebase.com (Joseph Daniels) Lines: 11 Does anyone have information about transcripts from the teachings of the Pleiadians to Billy Miejer? There are thousands of pages covering all branches of science. There are also over 800 pages of transcripts from UMMO Aliens in France. I am interested in examining the contents of these Alien transcripts. Thanks. --- . SLMR 2.1a . InfoNet London (519)649-1453 Hit ^C and enter HELP at $ Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!spool.mu.edu!agate!boulder!csn!scicom!paranet!p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Michael.Corbin From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Penn State Ufo Discussion Group Message-ID: <141178.2B116D42@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Date: 23 Nov 92 22:31:01 GMT Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26) Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/428.0 - From: JLS19@psuvm.psu.edu > Date: 20 Nov 92 16:40:56 GMT > Organization: Penn State University > Message-ID: <92325.114057JLS19@psuvm.psu.edu> > Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Janet, I would be interested in any proceedings. Please let me know concerning this. Michael Corbin -- Michael Corbin - via ParaNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!spool.mu.edu!agate!boulder!csn!scicom!paranet!p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Michael.Corbin From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Underground Facilities Message-ID: <141179.2B116D42@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Date: 23 Nov 92 22:40:02 GMT Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26) Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/428.0 - From: peter@stycx.hacktic.nl (Author) > Date: 20 Nov 92 14:43:19 GMT > Organization: River of Doom. Running through Central Holland > Message-ID: > Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors > I've been reading that there would be a number of underground facilities > > for use by aliens in Arizona and New Mexico. Notably these facilities > would have been contructed underneath Native American Reservations. Is > there anyone out there who happens to know which reservations? Also I > would be interested to see if some of you, living in Arizona and New > Mexico, who have more information on this. The stuff that you refer to is highly unreliable insofar as whether there are underground "alien" bases located in these places. One of the most controversial and most-talked about is Dulce, New Mexico located on the Colorado-New Mexico border. Allegedly Paul Bennewitz discovered this base along with other persons who claim to have independent corroboration to its reality. But, there has never been any proof that there is even an underground facility there. Dulce has had numerous reports of lights and a couple of cattle mutilations around the place, but remember that this area is close to where a lot of mutilations and sightings occurred (Colorado-New Mexico). I know of several people who have been to the Dulce area, but none of them have ever found anything. > The thing sounds pretty wild to me, but I commited myself to an open > mind > and a 'bann' on the word impossible. As Joe Nickell once said, "While we should be open to new ideas, we should not wish to become as open as, say, a refuse can." From Secrets of the Supernatural. Nuff said. :-) Mike -- Michael Corbin - via ParaNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!spool.mu.edu!agate!boulder!csn!scicom!paranet!p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Michael.Corbin From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Jw Message-ID: <141180.2B116D42@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Date: 23 Nov 92 22:42:03 GMT Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26) Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/428.0 - From: steven@syacus.acus.oz.au (Steven Malikoff) > Date: 23 Nov 92 02:49:09 GMT > Organization: ACUS Australian Centre for Unisys Software, Sydney > Message-ID: <1992Nov23.024909.22457@syacus.acus.oz.au> > Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors > fis@evil.demon.co.uk (fis) writes: > : I suggest we have a whip round so that we can hire someone to pay a > visit > : to Mr J Winston. > : On their arrival their duty would be to shove the largest object in > the > : vicinity down his THROAT! > : JOHN - YOU'RE DOING OUR HEADS IN, AND WE WISH YOU WERE DEAD. > : fis@evil.demon.co.uk > Well said. > I never thought that a kill file would be so necessary, and have > tolerated > many different opinions on the net. However, the stupid postings of JW > have incensed me to the point that the first (and only) pattern in my > kill > file has become *_-_*. Now, if only I could filter the threads that > include > his postings, too. With the persistence that this fellow has, I wonder sometimes if he doesn't have an "agenda." Perhaps it is wiser to just ignore him altogether. Has anyone ever asked him for a bio and then checked it thoroughly? Mike -- Michael Corbin - via ParaNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!spool.mu.edu!agate!boulder!csn!scicom!paranet!f10.n2403.z2.FIDONET.ORG!Andre.Eichner From: Andre.Eichner@f10.n2403.z2.FIDONET.ORG (Andre Eichner) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. Message-ID: <141184.2B11B95A@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Date: 19 Nov 92 18:57:00 GMT Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26) Organization: FidoNet node 2:2403/10 - FidoNet Berli, Berlin 41 Lines: 22 Monday November 16 1992, Stephen Kuhn writes to All: SK> From: Rob Farquhar, temp. using this account. Hi Rob! SK> travel. They include: The Abercan, a reptilian race reminiscent of hooded [...] SK> eating legs, and walking legs Sounds interesting!What is the source? Is there a real source or is it your last dream? cheers Andre -- Andre Eichner - via ParaNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Andre.Eichner@f10.n2403.z2.FIDONET.ORG Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!spool.mu.edu!agate!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!cis.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!ohstpy!vancleef From: vancleef@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Renaming a.a.v. Message-ID: <14772.2b11997e@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu> Date: 24 Nov 92 02:54:53 EST Organization: The Ohio State University, Department of Physics Lines: 6 Perhaps we should change the name of this newsgroup to 'alt.john.winston'? -Garrett Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!spool.mu.edu!agate!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!cis.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!ohstpy!vancleef From: vancleef@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Message from Aldebran Message-ID: <14773.2b1199e8@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu> Date: 24 Nov 92 02:56:40 EST Organization: The Ohio State University, Department of Physics Lines: 12 Please decode this sequence. It is from the Stellar League. SU iikJJJ 19876 The code sequence is 8902 I got this from a secret contact. -Garrett Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.unomaha.edu!cwis!stone From: stone@cwis.unomaha.edu (Travis Stone) Subject: Re: Renaming a.a.v. Message-ID: Sender: news@news.unomaha.edu (UNO Network News Server) Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha References: <14772.2b11997e@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu> Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1992 14:11:40 GMT Lines: 13 vancleef@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu writes: >Perhaps we should change the name of this newsgroup to 'alt.john.winston'? >-Garrett The way the daft bugger keeps flooding the place with his tabloid bilge makes Garrett's suggestion seem like a more viable alternative with each passing day... T.R. Stone Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!ppontis.oit.iupui.edu!IPAP400 From: IPAP400@indyvax.iupui.edu (Pat Pontis) Subject: Re: Renaming a.a.v. References: <14772.2b11997e@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu> Sender: nobody@ctr.columbia.edu Organization: Integrated Technologies IUPUI Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1992 17:27:59 GMT Message-ID: Lines: 12 X-Posted-From: ppontis.oit.iupui.edu NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu In article <14772.2b11997e@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu> vancleef@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu writes: >From: vancleef@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu >Subject: Renaming a.a.v. >Date: 24 Nov 92 02:54:53 EST >Perhaps we should change the name of this newsgroup to 'alt.john.winston'? > >-Garrett > > > Good Idea! JW is a lot more fun than some on this group! Pat Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!sgiblab!sgigate!odin!slugo.corp.sgi.com!rodb From: rodb@slugo.corp.sgi.com (Rod Beckwith) Subject: Re: Renaming a.a.v. Message-ID: <1992Nov24.182519.28390@odin.corp.sgi.com> Sender: news@odin.corp.sgi.com (Net News) Nntp-Posting-Host: slugo.corp.sgi.com Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc. References: <14772.2b11997e@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu> Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1992 18:25:19 GMT Lines: 45 This idea has already been preposed months ago, face it folks, John_-_Winston is here to stay. Bandwidth burning, noise generation, & tabloid exploitation have become a new Olympic event for the next Olympiad. Hands down we have a GOLD medalist here in a.a.v.:-) Mr. Corbin could be right, but the hidden agenda has been exposed! JW is just practicing for the Olympic trials. =========================================================================== ===== On the lighter side: BTW has anyone taken the Clinton letter to fruitation? Has it been sent yet? Has Henry Winkler been contacted? Did anyone in the Bay Area catch the Michael Craznee(sp) show last night @ 1000pm on KGO radio? His guest was one of the masterminds behind the SETI Project. KGO seems to always get the same guy to do this show, he must give a discount. They had a few callers that mentioned UFOS & where pelted as usual with the rhetoric so prevalent in NASA. A few chuckles then off to the next caller. I am in the process of calling KGO & see if they can get someone on the pro side of this issue on the show. Someone like Dr. Richard Haines, George Knapp, etc. Let you all know how it turns out. Rod -- Rod Beckwith |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Datacom I/S |"The great obstacle of progress is not ignorance, rodb@corp.sgi.com|but the illusion of knowledge." |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$  Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12902 alt.alien.visitors:11325 sci.skeptic:34724 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!uknet!comlab.ox.ac.uk!oxuniv!jdporter From: jdporter@vax.oxford.ac.uk Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Abort Message-ID: <1992Nov20.121428.10284@vax.oxford.ac.uk> Date: 20 Nov 92 12:14:28 GMT References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <69787@cup.portal.com> Organization: Oxford University VAX 6620 Lines: 10 In article <69787@cup.portal.com>, John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: > Dear Ex-aliens: It was mentioned that it would be good to have a > dictionary of another language. I was given some words used by another > planet called Legart. About one in a hundred of the words are the same > as ours. I remember one of the words that was the same was the word > abort. > John Winston Yes, but what did it mean? Oh yes, and where is Legart, by the way? Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12905 alt.alien.visitors:11326 sci.skeptic:34740 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!saimiri.primate.wisc.edu!sdd.hp.com!swrinde!emory!ogicse!das-news.harvard.edu!spdcc!rdonahue From: rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Alien Ships. Message-ID: <1992Nov24.204155.4598@spdcc.com> Date: 24 Nov 92 20:41:55 GMT Article-I.D.: spdcc.1992Nov24.204155.4598 References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <70056@cup.portal.com> Organization: insert anything here Lines: 21 John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >Subject: Aliens in Our Sky. > I will now put down a list of some of the aliens that are seen in UFOs in >our sky. >1. Grey Type A. Also known as Zeta Reticuli from the Zeta Reticulan star >system (The Bernard Star) neighboring the Orion area. Dear John: some minor points for you. 1) Barnard's Star is nowhere near Zeta Ret. 2) Neither of them are in Orion 3) Orion isn't a place, it's a projection on to an area of the sky. 4) Bellatrix is a B2III star - it won't live long enough to form planets, let alone planets that evolve into intelligent life. Nice try - have Elvis give you better driections next time 'K? BBC Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:11327 alt.drugs:36057 alt.psychoactives:1816 alt.zines:255 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!stanford.edu!hsdndev!news.cs.umb.edu!pbreton From: pbreton@ra.cs.umb.edu (Peter Breton) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.drugs,alt.psychoactives,alt.zines Subject: Crash Collusion 'zine Message-ID: <1992Nov24.220842.6518@cs.umb.edu> Date: 24 Nov 92 22:08:42 GMT Sender: news@cs.umb.edu (USENET News System) Organization: University of Massachusetts at Boston Lines: 8 Originator: pbreton@ra.cs.umb.edu Nntp-Posting-Host: ra.cs.umb.edu Issue #2 of CRASH COLLUSION is now out and available for $2 from Wesley Nations PO Box 49223 Austin TX 78765 It contains articles about UFOs, Forteana, and hallucinogens, including a list of companies that sell ethnobotanicals. The editor plans to publish another issue in January, and is willing to swap or trade with contributors or Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12906 alt.alien.visitors:11328 sci.skeptic:34743 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!caen!uunet!orca!javelin.sim.es.com!pashdown From: pashdown@javelin.sim.es.com (Pete Ashdown) Subject: Re: Alien Ships. Message-ID: Organization: Evans & Sutherland Computer Corp. References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <70056@cup.portal.com> Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1992 22:41:59 GMT Lines: 21 John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >13. People from inside our Earth. The short ones with pointy little red caps? >21. Aldeberon the makers of the generators and motors under the Great Pyramid >of Egypt. Third planet from the star (sun) Aldeberon. No, you are WRONG on this one John. Aldeberon got nuked by the Death Star, I saw it happen. >There are over 100 places that people are coming from to observe Earth. >John Winston. No Wookies? -- What's the frequency, Kenneth? DISCLAIMER: My writings have NOTHING to do with my employer. Keep it that way. Pete Ashdown pashdown@slack.sim.es.com ...uunet!slack.sim.es.com!pashdown Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12912 alt.alien.visitors:11329 sci.skeptic:34766 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!munnari.oz.au!yoyo.aarnet.edu.au!news.adelaide.edu.au!spam!jaskew From: jaskew@spam.ua.oz (Joseph Askew) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Greys, Good or Bad Summary: Two more days until Unemployment! Message-ID: <1862@spam.ua.oz> Date: 25 Nov 92 05:37:08 GMT References: <1992Nov23.181003.18637@netcom.com> Organization: Statistics, Pure & Applied Mathematics, University of Adelaide Lines: 22 In article <1992Nov23.181003.18637@netcom.com> sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer) writes: > The only good Grey is a DEAD Grey! They're vicious, woman-raping, > child-eating varmints! So they aren't all bad then? BTW which is worse, a little man from outer space who rapes women or one that doesn't? (just think what they *do* rape then) Besides, it shows that they have a lot in common with Humanity - they like our women and children! A definite good sign. Joseph Askew -- Joseph Askew, Gauche and Proud Barbarian horns draw out the northern wind; jaskew@spam.maths.adelaide.edu Paler than water lies the Thistle Pass; Disclaimer? Sue, see if I care Sky swallows up the road to Kokonor; One China One Korea One Eire32 Moonlight, a thousand miles along the Wall. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!rsoft!mindlink!a499 From: Robert_Salesas@mindlink.bc.ca (Robert Salesas) Subject: Re: Cayce's Pyramid Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1992 06:11:38 GMT Message-ID: <17733@mindlink.bc.ca> Sender: news@deep.rsoft.bc.ca (Usenet) Lines: 24 > John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: > > Msg-ID: <69984@cup.portal.com> > Posted: 22 Nov 92 01:34:27 GMT > > Org. : The Portal System (TM) > > Dear Folk: Tomorrow I should have some time to do some more posting. > John Winston. Phew! I was getting worried! Please, John, always keep us informed like this, it _really_ makes us feel soooooo much better to know that your posts won't suddenly come to an end. Rob -- \------------------------------------------------------------------------/ \ Robert Salesas | Internet: Robert_Salesas@mindlink.bc.ca / \ Eschalon Development Inc. | CIS: 76625,1320 Tel/Fax: 604-520-1543 / \------------------------------------------------------------------------/ Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!destroyer!cs.ubc.ca!unixg.ubc.ca!kakwa.ucs.ualberta.ca!ersys!wowee!kellym From: kellym@wowee.ersys.edmonton.ab.ca (Kelly Martin) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Astral 1. Message-ID: Date: 24 Nov 92 20:48:08 MST References: <69613@cup.portal.com> <658249251DN5.62R@testsys.isis.org> <1992Nov23.064213.5006@u.washington.edu> Distribution: na Organization: Not an Organization X-NewsSoftware: GRn 1.16f (10.17.92) by Mike Schwartz & Michael B. Smith Lines: 51 In article <1992Nov23.064213.5006@u.washington.edu> pul@hardy.u.washington.edu (Arbaline) writes: > In article <658249251DN5.62R@testsys.isis.org> doug@uuisis.isis.org writes: > >Well, ya know, what I can't figure is that if these guys in the flying > >saucers are so smart, why haven't they figured out how to do e-mail > >yet and got linked to the internet? > >uuisis!testsys!doug > > They have! > > You can do a lot as an ET is you are willing to enter a human body (be > a Walk-in) or incarnate in a human family from birth (be what they > call a Crawl-in). Most ET's choose to help us from spiritual planes or > stay in their ships, but there are a few bold, excitement craving ones > who like to get down and dirty and live among us in human bodies. What sort of lives do you think these people might lead? Supposing that this is possible, I would think that "human-aliens" among us (if such people do exist) would purposely choose to lead an extremely traumatic or difficult life. What better way to learn human nature than to experience it at its worst? Comments on this topic are appreciated. > Many New-agers or Star-people are in this category. Most know who they > are but a few don't yet. Living in the dense, evolving aura of Earth > can make one temporarily forget their cosmic origins, if they weren't > already an ET Master when they came to Earth. Now, the Galactic What is to differentiate an "alien in a human body" from a regular person? You must agree that there must be no physical difference, or they would surely be discovered. What is it then? A more 'advanced' soul? I doubt it. There must be something, if this theory is to seem reasonable. > Confederation doesn't land or show their ships openly to the masses > because we of Earth are not collectively ready for it, and they are > not allowed to interfere. However, since the ET's in human form fall > under Earth's karmic law, they are allowed to openly spread their > wisdom, sometimes admitting their origin causing others to think they > are weird, and other times being more subtle. Of course, remember that > many of we of Earth have lots of wisdom too and most of the ETs here > are still learning themselves, too. At least that's the way I see it. What do you mean, 'karmic law'? Do you suppose that they might have certain unusual abilities (especially mental or paranormal)? I mean, even if one does not know exactly whom he is or why he is here, there must be some way to differentiate between himself and a 'regular person.' Let's get some input on the subject! -- %"Vhuuut, you donna' like'a my zooop?"-Fred Flintstone, impersonating a chef % kellY Martin UUCP:kellym@wowee.ersys.edmonton.ab.ca (1:342/53.5@fidonet) Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12913 alt.alien.visitors:11332 sci.skeptic:34774 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!pipex!warwick!str-ccsun!dct.ac.uk!mcsdc1al From: mcsdc1al@dct.ac.uk Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Alien Ships. Message-ID: <1992Nov25.114326.1797@dct.ac.uk> Date: 25 Nov 92 11:43:26 GMT References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <70056@cup.portal.com> Organization: Dundee Institute of Technology Lines: 45 In article , pashdown@javelin.sim.es.com (Pete Ashdown) writes: > John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: > >>13. People from inside our Earth. > > The short ones with pointy little red caps? Grow up, man. There are creatures we know nothing of. It makes perfect sense to believe that once, thousandsof years ago, a whole race descendedto escape natural disasters such as a flood (the great flood as described in the bible?) and remain there. You shouldn't dismiss this possibillity so easily. We're not talking about Hobbits here but the possibillity of a whole race, possibly even new species existing that we still know nothing of. > >>21. Aldeberon the makers of the generators and motors under the Great Pyramid >>of Egypt. Third planet from the star (sun) Aldeberon. > > No, you are WRONG on this one John. Aldeberon got nuked by the Death Star, I > saw it happen. > While I would have to question the Aldeberon thing, there can be little doubt that the pyramids in Egypt, along with The Nazca Plains, are evidence of the existence of extraterrestrial life. >>There are over 100 places that people are coming from to observe Earth. >>John Winston. > > No Wookies? What is this, kindergarten? > -- > What's the frequency, Kenneth? > > DISCLAIMER: My writings have NOTHING to do with my employer. Keep it that way. > Pete Ashdown pashdown@slack.sim.es.com ...uunet!slack.sim.es.com!pashdown Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12914 alt.alien.visitors:11333 sci.skeptic:34776 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!caen!uunet!mcsun!uknet!str-ccsun!dct.ac.uk!mcsdc1al From: mcsdc1al@dct.ac.uk Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Alien Ships.y Message-ID: <1992Nov25.121316.1798@dct.ac.uk> Date: 25 Nov 92 12:13:16 GMT References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <70056@cup.portal.com> Organization: Dundee Institute of Technology Lines: 124 In article <70056@cup.portal.com>, John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: > Subject: Aliens in Our Sky. > I will now put down a list of some of the aliens that are seen in UFOs in > our sky. > 1. Grey Type A. Also known as Zeta Reticuli from the Zeta Reticulan star > system (The Bernard Star) neighboring the Orion area. I and a friend believe that we have seen these Aliens. We both used to have some really heavy UFO experiences because his village is the local epicentre for psychic activity. A Scottish King died when crossing a river there and it's a totally freaky place. Anyway, you'd often get objects flying over in formation, both day and night. The locals have photographic evidence, but naturally don't wish to be regarded as freaks or liars. One evening were up on a small hill and we heard a low humming noise. From the south came this large shape in the air. The sky was kind of dusky and there were no lights on the craft. It seemed metallic and rounded. We saw it come down behind a row of trees near the town cemetery and went running to see. The object we saw was standingon a flat patch of ground, not touchingit but only a few feet over. For some reason we ran away. When we got back to his home we realised that it had gotten dark very quickly but just assumed ithad become cloudy. Then we saw that it was past 11 o'clock although it had only been seven-ish when we firstsaw the craft. 4 hours were missing. That night we both had the same dream. The next day we astounded each other by telling it bit by bit exactly to each other. We had been inside the ship, which was like a TARDIS. It was as big as a house inside but from the outside it had looked the size of a helicopter. There were no sci-fi banks of lights and computers. It seemed very oganic, with plants and indoor waterfalls inside. We couldn't see anyone as yet, but were watching a wall. A quiet voice was speaking to us inside our heads and it told us to watch the wall. Then the wall started to flash like a strobelight. It flashed for about 20seconds and then stopped. Wecant decide what this was. Our conclusion was that either we were being studied or it was giving us knowledge. Both of us have since had flashes of telepathy or stuff like seeing in perfect vision, like very very sharp and far brighter and clearer than normal(third eye vision?). Next a single figure came in. He was about 3-3.5 feet tall and wore a costume like a Jawa in Star Wars only itwas white. when we saw his face it was greyish and reminded me of an insect or a dolphin without the nose. He had oriental eyes that seemed to smile. This figure didn't do anything or say anything but just looked at us. We did not talk to us. There both our dreams ended. We can only conclude that all this actually happened in the 4 hours we lost. > 2. Greysof the hawkish, abrupt, crude and blunt temperment. > 3. The master race of reptilian=type aliens. They boss the greys around. > 4. Tall greys from Orion. Usually about 7 to 8 ft. tall. They have large > noses. These grey are less viscous towards humans than the smaller greys > but are still considered hostile. > 5. Grey type C. These are the shortest of the greys and tend to be about 3.5 > ft. tall. They are just as hostile to humans as the Zetas. They are from a > star system near the shoulder of Orion called Bellatrax. > 6. Human type A. These are of a genetic base similar to humans of earth. > They appear of normal height (5 to 6 ft. ) and tend to be fair-skinned with > blonde hair. These entities have been abducted by the greys or are the > offspring of abductees and have been trained by the greys as servants. > These entities are totally subservient to the greys. > 7. Human type B. These are aliens of similar genetics to earth humans. These > are from the Pleiades and are also of the blond, fair skinned appearance. > This type is of a genuine highly spiritual, benevolent variety and have a > kinship toward humans and are the only aliens to be truly trusted by earth > human at this time (except the other good guys). They had at one time > offered to be of assistance to earth leaders in dealing with the alien > situation here but were rebuffed and so have taken a kind of hands off > approach for the time being. These aliens are supposedly the forefather of > our race of humankind. > 8. Human Type C. Beings from Sirius who are benevolent to earth people. > 9. Good guys from Vega > 10. " " " Arcturas. > 11. Mt. Shasta - the Silver Fleet, Lemurian. > 12. " " another Fleet I can't remember the name. Some of these people > are formerly from Atlantis. > 13. People from inside our Earth. > 14. Jupiter - the Adamic Race. > 15. Venus, about 5 races and colors. (nord or nordic people because they are > blonde and look like Swedish people). > 16. Venus > 17. " > 18. " > 19. " > 20. Mars (the forefathers of the Chinese race on Earth). Sorry John, Martians were the forefathers of the Samoan race. > 21. Aldeberon the makers of the generators and motors under the Great Pyramid > of Egypt. Third planet from the star (sun) Aldeberon. > 22. The Five Galaxy Cross from Legart and about 2 other planets in that system > that contain a total of 9 billion people. They are about 17 light years > away. Jarton is a person from there. > 23. Five Galaxy Cross. > 24. " " " > 25, Shamballa. > 26. Rainbow City at the South Pole. > 27. The Seven Cities of Shan. > 28. Crystal City- in orbit around the Earth-300 miles square. Er, John shurely some mistake here. If there werea city in orbit wouldn't it be well known and documented? Or is there a cover-up in operation? I doubt it because an object 300 miles across would be clearly visible with a small telescope. Please elaborate. > 29. The New Jerusaleum - 1500 miles square. > 30. The other side of the Moon. > 31. Satonians. > 32. Wormwood- should be coming around soon. > 33. Ashtar Command-many places many people, mostly of the 4th and higher > dimensions. > 34. A planetoid of the Meteorite Belt. What is left of Maldek after it blew up. > 35. Clarion. > 37. Satilites of some of our large planets. > 38. Trandor-headquarters of the Solar Cross organization. > There are over 100 places that people are coming from to observe Earth. > John Winston. Time travel and space travel? Maybethere are over 100 times that people are coming from to observeEarth. Xref: icaen alt.folklore.science:4076 alt.alien.visitors:11334 alt.fan.douglas-adams:4208 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.science,alt.alien.visitors,alt.fan.douglas-adams Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!kpearce From: kpearce@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (BULLDAWG) Subject: Re: Blue Lint from the Dryer Message-ID: <1992Nov25.133838.16868@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> Keywords: Better late then never..... Sender: news@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Nntp-Posting-Host: bottom.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Organization: The Ohio State University References: <1992Nov13.182917.22107@berlioz.nsc.com> <1992Nov15.021935.20368@alf.uib.no> <1992Nov15.161736.25926@cs.mun.ca> Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1992 13:38:38 GMT Lines: 29 It's because detergent manufacturers put a flourescent dye (which is slightly blue) in the suds to make clothes "brighter." Grandma would call it "bluing." Ken In article <1992Nov15.161736.25926@cs.mun.ca> kirsten@irma.cs.mun.ca (Kirsten Starcher) writes: >In article <1992Nov15.021935.20368@alf.uib.no> bjornts@ii.uib.no (Bjoern Tore Sund) writes: >>In article <1992Nov13.182917.22107@berlioz.nsc.com>, nelson@desktop.nsc.com (Taed Nelson) writes: >>|> It seems that whenever I wash and then dry my clothes that the "lint" (AKA >>|> "fluff") that gets caught in the "lint trap" is _always_ some shade of blue. >>Now, _anyone_ with a certain level of education (i.e. who has read Douglas >>Adam's Hitch-hiker trilogy) would now, and be able to recognize this as the >>first trials of interstellar contact from the super-intelligent shade of blue >>of the planet - eh - eh - (What's the name again folks?). > >I don't think it says what the planet is, but the color is known as a >Hooloovoo... > > >............................................................................. >.Kirsten Starcher...............................Your breath is steaming up... >.kirsten@irma.cs.mun.ca.........................my contact lenses............ >.kirsten@morgan.ucs.mun.ca................................................... >.................Memorial University, St. John's, Newfoundland............... >...This posting brought to you by the letters f, y, v, and the number i...... >............................................................................. Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:11335 alt.conspiracy:20182 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!csus.edu!netcom.com!garys From: garys@netcom.com (Gary Stollman) Subject: INVASION!!! Message-ID: <1992Nov25.143247.21934@netcom.com> Summary: What is going on lately... Keywords: stollman,invasion,ufos,clones Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1992 14:32:47 GMT Lines: 21 Well, I know it has been a while since I last posted, but I have been involved. God and his angels have been taking care of my problems, so there really hasn't been a heck of a lot to complain about!! I have been going out with Joan a lot lately, and that has been keeping me pretty busy. The only thing of notice was when we were going up to her apartment one night last week, the elevator went by itself to the fourth floor without our having to push the button which is quite impossible, and nobody else had pushed the button on that floor. I haven't been working on my book lately, but I hope to change that soon. The angel of my old girlfriend is still working at the bookstore, and I introduced myself to her two weeks ago, but as I have been busy with Joan, I haven't had the time to get to know her yet. But I am sure going to try!!! -- Gary Stollman Internet: garys@netcom.com GEnie: G.STOLLMAN ----------------------------------------------------------------- The world is your playground. Keep it clean! ----------------------------------------------------------------- Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12915 alt.alien.visitors:11336 sci.skeptic:34781 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!caen!uunet!news.encore.com!bcacciol@encore.com From: bcacciol@encore (Forklift of Pain) Subject: Re: Alien Ships. Reply-To: bcacciol@encore.com Organization: none Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1992 14:55:54 GMT Message-ID: References: <1992Nov25.114326.1797@dct.ac.uk> <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <70056@cup.portal.com> Sender: news@encore.com (Usenet readnews user id) Nntp-Posting-Host: wizard.encore.com Lines: 33 In article <1992Nov25.114326.1797@dct.ac.uk>, mcsdc1al@dct.ac.uk writes: > In article , pashdown@javelin.sim.es.com (Pete Ashdown) writes: > > John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: > > > >>13. People from inside our Earth. > > > > The short ones with pointy little red caps? > > Grow up, man. There are creatures we know nothing of. It makes perfect sense > to believe that once, thousandsof years ago, a whole race descendedto escape Uh huh. Yes. Perfect sense. Please continue... > While I would have to question the Aldeberon thing, there can be little doubt > that the pyramids in Egypt, along with The Nazca Plains, are evidence of the > existence of extraterrestrial life. > Yes. Little doubt. You are correct, sir. Pyramids by excra, exa, er, EXTRA-terrestrial life (had to clear my throat there). I did not know that. > > What is this, kindergarten? No, this is the Internet, as much as it resembles a first-grade class with a substitute teacher. Though some believe it was created by the Rosicrucians (of which there can be little doubt, I tell you). bc Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!olivea!spool.mu.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!doc.ic.ac.uk!uknet!str-ccsun!dct.ac.uk!mcsdc1al From: mcsdc1al@dct.ac.uk Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Message-ID: <1992Nov25.154246.1824@dct.ac.uk> Date: 25 Nov 92 15:42:45 GMT Organization: Dundee Institute of Technology Lines: 14 Think I saw a UFO over Dundee on Monday evening at 4.40pm over the Tay. It started with a bright pinpoint of light over the Tay. I was sitting staring out of the window and noticed it and thought it was just a bright star (it was almost completely dark outside). Then it started to move from it's stationary position with increasing speed towards the city centre along the Tay. I then thought it was a plane because they come over quite often towards Dundee Airport, but I was confused about how it had been standing still, like a star. Then it made a wide turn and swept back far closer to my position and I was able to see that the object was quite flat and didn't seem to have wings or tail. All the time it had a single white light shining, similar to craft I have seen before. Did anyone else in Dundee/area see this object? Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!olivea!spool.mu.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!doc.ic.ac.uk!uknet!str-ccsun!dct.ac.uk!mcsdc1al From: mcsdc1al@dct.ac.uk Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: ^^^DUNDEE UFO^^^^ Message-ID: <1992Nov25.160345.1827@dct.ac.uk> Date: 25 Nov 92 15:03:43 GMT References: <1992Nov25.154246.1824@dct.ac.uk> Organization: Dundee Institute of Technology Lines: 17 In article <1992Nov25.154246.1824@dct.ac.uk>, mcsdc1al@dct.ac.uk writes: > Think I saw a UFO over Dundee on Monday evening at 4.40pm over the Tay. > > It started with a bright pinpoint of light over the Tay. I was sitting staring > out of the window and noticed it and thought it was just a bright star (it was > almost completely dark outside). Then it started to move from it's stationary > position with increasing speed towards the city centre along the Tay. I then > thought it was a plane because they come over quite often towards Dundee > Airport, but I was confused about how it had been standing still, like a star. > Then it made a wide turn and swept back far closer to my position and I was > able to see that the object was quite flat and didn't seem to have wings or > tail. All the time it had a single white light shining, similar to craft I > have seen before. > > Did anyone else in Dundee/area see this object? > > Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12917 alt.alien.visitors:11339 sci.skeptic:34790 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!stanford.edu!CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU!csd-d-3.Stanford.EDU!amorgan From: amorgan@csd-d-3.Stanford.EDU (Crunchy Frog) Subject: Re: Alien Ships. Message-ID: <1992Nov25.174653.8754@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> Originator: amorgan@csd-d-3.Stanford.EDU Sender: news@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU Organization: /usr/lib/news/organizatoin References: <70056@cup.portal.com> <1992Nov25.114326.1797@dct.ac.uk> Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1992 17:46:53 GMT Lines: 23 In article <1992Nov25.114326.1797@dct.ac.uk> mcsdc1al@dct.ac.uk writes: >In article , > pashdown@javelin.sim.es.com (Pete Ashdown) writes: .. deleted .. >While I would have to question the Aldeberon thing, there can be little doubt >that the pyramids in Egypt, along with The Nazca Plains, are evidence of the >existence of extraterrestrial life. Oh really? While I was reading a book by Martin Gardner about this sort of stuff, he was talking about some other book which claimed more or less what you say. Mr. Gardner made a remark which I thought was fairly interesting. He said (more or less) "This person has no difficultly believing that Stonehenge was built by people, or that Hadrians wall was, or the castles of England. Oddly enough all these structures were built by white people. Of course, if Africans or Mexicans have huge constructions in their countries it must be because extra-terrestrials helped them. Dark skinned people couldn't possibly do it by themselves." Why are the pyramids and Nazca lines evidence for ETs? C Frog Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!caen!uflorida!mailer.cc.fsu.edu!loligo!djordan From: djordan@loligo.cc.fsu.edu (Danny Jordan) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Viewing Great Wall From Space [was Re: Monuments of Mars] Message-ID: <1992Nov24.072631.25556@mailer.cc.fsu.edu> Date: 24 Nov 92 07:26:31 GMT References: <1992Nov17.044222.12323@odin.corp.sgi.com> <1992Nov17.181120.8910@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu> <1992Nov17.184218.20539@yang.earlham.edu> Sender: news@mailer.cc.fsu.edu (Usenet News File Owner) Organization: Plan 9 From Outer Space Lines: 16 Nntp-Posting-Host: loligo.cc.fsu.edu In article <1992Nov17.184218.20539@yang.earlham.edu> aarons@yang.earlham.edu writes: >Actually, the Great Wall of China *can* be seen with the naked eye. I have >seen a normal (i.e. no magnification, flash (just kidding on the last >one!)) photograph of Earth from space, and it did show the Great Wall, >although it was quite dim. Of course, we all know that it wasn't built >with space people in mind.....(unless there's something I don't know about) Actually you cannot see the great wall from space what you are seeing are centuries of sediment that has built up on one side of the wall since it was built. -- ==================================================================== = Don't let 'em kid ya folks = Danny Jordan = It's all just lines of paper! = djordan@loligo.cc.fsu.edu = --R. Crumb = One Nation Under God...Or Else ===================================================================== Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:11341 alt.conspiracy:20186 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!jnielsen From: jnielsen@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (John F Nielsen) Subject: Re: INVASION!!! Message-ID: <1992Nov25.184531.24465@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> Keywords: stollman,invasion,ufos,clones Sender: news@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Nntp-Posting-Host: magnusug.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Organization: The Ohio State University References: <1992Nov25.143247.21934@netcom.com> Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1992 18:45:31 GMT Lines: 25 In article <1992Nov25.143247.21934@netcom.com> garys@netcom.com (Gary Stollman) writes: > >Well, I know it has been a while since I last posted, but I have been >involved. God and his angels have been taking care of my problems, so >there really hasn't been a heck of a lot to complain about!! I have been >going out with Joan a lot lately, and that has been keeping me pretty >busy. The only thing of notice was when we were going up to her apartment >one night last week, the elevator went by itself to the fourth floor >without our having to push the button which is quite impossible, and >nobody else had pushed the button on that floor. I haven't been working Impossible?? Couldn't someone have pushed the button on the 4th and then decided the elevator was too slow so they took the stairs. I normally take the stairs up to 5 floor here because I can eaisly beat the elevator. Also, sometimes elevators mess up. john -- John Nielsen MAGNUS Consultant ______ ______ __ __ jnielsen@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu /\ __ \ /\ ___\ /\ \/\ \ \ \ \/\ \\ \___ \\ \ \_\ \ Back off man, I'm a Scientist! \ \_____\\/\_____\\ \_____\ Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12919 alt.alien.visitors:11342 sci.skeptic:34795 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.unomaha.edu!cwis!stone From: stone@cwis.unomaha.edu (Travis Stone) Subject: Re: Alien Ships. Message-ID: Sender: news@news.unomaha.edu (UNO Network News Server) Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <70056@cup.portal.com> Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1992 18:42:38 GMT Lines: 7 Jeez, Johnny---how could you leave out the Lectroids from Planet Ten? John Whorfin, John Big-Boote~, John Small Berries, John O'Connor and the rest (not to mention Buckaroo Banzai) are gonna be REALLY cheesed off at YOU, boy... Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12920 alt.alien.visitors:11343 sci.skeptic:34797 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!caen!uunet!paladin.american.edu!news.univie.ac.at!chx400!sparc2!news From: milsom@ntb.ch (Paul Milsom) Subject: Re: Past Life regression - the proof (was GSI Day) Message-ID: <1992Nov25.173319.29565@ntb.ch> Sender: usenet@ntb.ch (Mr. Usenet) Reply-To: milsom@ntb.ch (Paul Milsom) Organization: Neu-Technikum Buchs References: <2931457359.0.p00168@psilink.com> Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1992 17:33:19 GMT Lines: 85 I'm replying to Jim Tims's posting of Bob Silberg's letter. I think that Bob failed to see the point in some places: >Consider: If one wants to strengthen one's body by lifting >weights, one doesn't begin with the heaviest weights and >gradually reduce the load as strength increases. On the >contrary, one starts light and easy, and steps up the challenge >as the muscles grow more powerful. This analogy is a clever trick, but it doesn't work. Let's take a similar example: To learn to swim, you have first to sit in one inch of water, then two. You should only attempt over six inches of water if you are an accomplished swimmer! - Ever heard of being thrown in at the deep end? >Similarly, if life is the soul's gym, the newer or weaker souls >surely would not be given the monumental challenge of living with >poverty, disease, and despair. No, they would be given lives of >ease to begin with; and, if they did good jobs at those, then the >load could be increased with the next go-round. But when you're thrown in at the deep end, there is no easy way out - sink or swim. There is also no way out for the souls in the lowest levels of humanity. They can't say, "OK, I give up, I'll go back to being a senator". >No, they would be given lives of ease to begin with; and, if they did >good jobs at those, then the load could be increased.. - And if they always did *bad* jobs, they would end up as .. God? >Logically, it follows that.. - Only if I accept the premise in the first place, which I don't. >Shirley MacLaine, the rich, famous, talented, beautiful movie star, must >have really screwed up in her multitude of previous lives. >Billy Joel, the rich, famous, successful rock star married to >Christie Brinkley, must have a soul that is brand new. No one >could have made such a mess of previous lives ... There is a Sufi wisdom which maintains that the ultimate luxury is to have someone envy you. Sounds like these people mentioned have got just that. What Bob doesn't see here: it is exactly this kind of life that is the most difficult to lead without succumbing to material temptation. This is the real test of a soul. The ultimate barrier for one branch of spiritual learning is one's own spiritual pride. "- Now I know it all.." >Ironically, many people may be pursuing lives of kindness, >tolerance, and generosity out of the mistaken notion that they >will be rewarded by coming back as .. It is their *motives* that count, not their deeds, so these fail anyway. I personally don't believe that the social or material standing is raised with each life. I believe we decide how much we can take before we come. >Such misguided souls would lie, cheat, steal, or worse These "sins" in themselves may not be evil. It depends on the motive. If you are stealing from people who can easily afford it when there is *no other way* to save a person in need, I think it's a good thing. If you are lying to save someone from being raped/killed, what's wrong with that? I would just like to add that even if not every past life regression is "true", what does it matter? People like Don can help others in this life anyway. (I'm not knocking Don here) If these people believe that they are reliving real lives (I accept that some "memories" are not from past lives), it often helps them tremendously. -"Now I understand my fear of men" .. "So that's why I've always been suspicious of my wife" .. The truth is, it doesn't matter anyway, does it? The main thing is, we all get to Heaven in the end! Yippee! Love and blessings, Paul. Paul Milsom milsom@ntb.ch Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12921 alt.alien.visitors:11344 sci.skeptic:34800 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!emory!gatech!ncar!noao!amethyst!organpipe.uug.arizona.edu!helium!corleyj From: corleyj@helium.gas.uug.arizona.edu (Jason D Corley ) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Alien Ships. Message-ID: <1992Nov25.192638.16482@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu> Date: 25 Nov 92 19:26:38 GMT References: <70056@cup.portal.com> <1992Nov25.114326.1797@dct.ac.uk> Sender: news@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu Organization: University of Arizona, Tucson, AZ Lines: 50 In article <1992Nov25.114326.1797@dct.ac.uk> mcsdc1al@dct.ac.uk writes: >In article , pashdown@javelin.sim.es.com (Pete Ashdown) writes: >> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >> The short ones with pointy little red caps? > >Grow up, man. There are creatures we know nothing of. It makes perfect sense >to believe that once, thousandsof years ago, a whole race descendedto escape >natural disasters such as a flood (the great flood as described in the bible?) >and remain there. You shouldn't dismiss this possibillity so easily. We're >not talking about Hobbits here but the possibillity of a whole race, possibly >even new species existing that we still know nothing of. > > Oh, you mean they wear GREEN caps. Ohhhh...... Look, the whole Hollow Earth theory is completely ludicrous. If indeed the Earth is hollow, then how do you explain its gravitational activity, calculated to several dozen decimal places with several dozen objects? We can measure the force of gravity and from that we can get the mass of the Earth. If the Earth is hollow, then the force of gravity would be less...but it isn't, so it ain't. Hate to be the shriveled carrot under your peach cobbler, but the world ain't hollow and there ain't nobody inside. > > >> >>>21. Aldeberon the makers of the generators and motors under the Great Pyramid >>>of Egypt. Third planet from the star (sun) Aldeberon. >> >> No, you are WRONG on this one John. Aldeberon got nuked by the Death Star, I >> saw it happen. >> > >existence of extraterrestrial life. No, no no no no no no no. The Pyramids in Egypt are evidence of the ingenuity and patience of the Ancient Egyptians (as well as their THRIVING slave labor trade), and the Nazca Lines are evidence of the religious devotion of the natives living there. These are not mysteries, they are anthropological truths, found through decades (and, in the case of the Pyramids, centuries) of research and extrapolation. Jason The Mad Mad Mad Mad Solipsistic Mad World ObCrackpottery: The MENACE of ROSS PEROT, GREY, has CLEARLY been AVERTED by the recent news of the DESTRUCTION OF THE EARTH by comet SWIFT-TUTTLE in 2112!!!!! ROSS obviously does not want to RULE a DOOMED PLANET!!!! Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!ulowell!woods.ulowell.edu!lewish From: lewish@woods.ulowell.edu Subject: Re: Wake up to reality^2 Message-ID: <1992Nov25.135219.1@woods.ulowell.edu> Lines: 21 Sender: usenet@ulowell.ulowell.edu (News manager - ulowell) Organization: University of Lowell References: <1553.479.uupcb@homebase.com> <1992Nov17.164138.23670@tamsun.tamu.edu> <1992Nov21.201400.21960@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1992 18:52:19 GMT In article <1992Nov21.201400.21960@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, jnielsen@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (John F Nielsen) writes: > In article <1992Nov17.164138.23670@tamsun.tamu.edu> cjr6495@tamsun.tamu.edu (Opera_Ghost) writes: >>In article <1553.479.uupcb@homebase.com> joseph.daniels@homebase.com (Joseph Daniels) writes: > That is not the point. You do not prove something's existance > by not being able to disprove it's existance. > > I cannot disprove that a purple red wood with candy canes for leaves > exists in Australia. However, that does not make it unreasonable > to say that it does not exist. Without any proof an alien is in > the same catagory as the purple redwood. > I Know a few theologists who would disagree with you. Disclaimer "This statement by no means suggests that I agree with either side of the discussion, I just disagree with you." Lewish@woods.ulowell.edu Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12922 alt.alien.visitors:11346 sci.skeptic:34804 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!tdonnell From: tdonnell@portal.hq.videocart.com (Tim Donnelly) Subject: Re: Past Life regression - the proof (was GSI Day) Message-ID: Organization: VideOcart Inc. References: <2931457359.0.p00168@psilink.com> Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1992 12:11:47 GMT Lines: 54 In response to the condensed article regarding reincarnation being backwards... X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3 There was a very famous sleeping prophet which I hope some of you have heard of named Edgar Cayce. He lived in the earlier 1900's and prophesized for almost 40 years. His prophecies, advice, and teachings covered every possible topic from _How to get rid of blisters_ to _What is the soul_. He is quite famous for his beliefs and explanantions of reincarnation. The previous mentioned article is very narrow and unaware of this mans accepted views on reincarnation. Basically, the previous explanantion of why we reincarnate is close enough to use. The one thing I would add is that according to Cayce our souls are basically a way for _God_ to grow, or what ever you want to call this higher power (Believe me I am far from a God or Jesus freak!). A soul is a small slice, or piece, of God which can grow through multiple life experiences. When this has grown to its most mature, pure form it strengthens and builds _God_. To continue, the big difference from this article and Cayce, is the way we continue to come back. We do not go from living in ditches, to a palace, then back to God. Our soul returns in whatever form (human only), at whatever time with whatever experiences planned, as it finds necessary to learn and expand some specific things or everything. For example I read of one old women whom had a life reading and was told that she was an advanced soul, but was returned to her current life in order to learn and understand the feeling of _family_. In past lifes she had often been a commanding, man and did not know the emotion and love of _family_. In this life she was a great mother and grand mother. One friend of mine who had a past life reading has had over 2,000 previous lifes, and one women I know (a psychic) has had less than 150. There are many books about Edgar Cayce, many about specific topics he prophesized about. Some of his other famous topics include the past civiliz- ation of Atlantis, Healing/Medicine, and the coming of new ages and cycles. By the way, we are near the end of a 40 year testing period as we fade in to the next age (each lasting 2,000 years). I believe we are going from the age of Pisces to Aquarius (or vice versa). Each age has a new leader (model) such as Christ in the latest age. Depending on how we respond to the test will depend on how we become introduced to the new age. Look at all of the incredible man made and natural events occuring lately, and the state of the nations! We will probably be ending the testing between 1996-1998 and will experience considerable natural and man made changes in our world. This will probably include nuclear war, reversing of the poles, new oceans and new lands (and disappearing ones also!). Please do not be narrow minded. It astounds me that people fight so hard to prove that the only existence is what we have right in front of us from one minute to the next - that we are limited to 5 senses only. What is everyone afraid of? Reading some of Edgar Cayces material may very well make you a believer, and give you insight as well as long term hope. Matthew Marsh From: Keith.Spears@f108.n282.z1.tdkt.kksys.com (Keith Spears) Sender: FredGate@tdkt.kksys.com Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!The-Star.honeywell.com!umn.edu!kksys.com!tdkt!FredGate Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: hypnosis experimentation Message-ID: <722719753.F00001@tdkt.kksys.com> Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1992 10:55:00 -0600 Lines: 24 RP>Subjects were flashed (I assume slides) images of the back of a car. >The license plates were unreadable. It seems that the subjects would >recall a license number under hypnosis. I do not recall if it was some >or all. The conclusion I recall was that they would come up with the >numbers in order to please the hypnotist. RP>I am not trying to be vague, this is what I remember. Without know precisely how the questions were phrased, though, it would be hard to take those results as conclusive of anything. Exact wording can make a big difference - if they asked "leading" questions, the answers may well have been meaningless. While I've never used hypnosis in connection with alien abductions (and therefore can't say much on the validity of implanting memories of such), I've noticed that people do occasionally take "past life regressions" as experiences that have truly happened, i.e. the regression incorporated into memory as an actual event. Not too often, though, and it's not something I've really documented. * OLX 2.1 TD * That is not dead which can eternal lie... * Origin: THE CITY LIGHTS <612-633-1366> <14.4> (1:282/108) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!csus.edu!netcom.com!sheaffer From: sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer) Subject: Re: Monuments of Mars Message-ID: <1992Nov25.231812.8441@netcom.com> Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) References: <1992Nov17.181120.8910@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu> <1992Nov18.125755.1488@dct.ac.uk> <1992Nov18.210532.21581@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu> Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1992 23:18:12 GMT Lines: 36 In article <1992Nov18.210532.21581@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu> corleyj@helium.gas.uug.arizona.edu (Jason D Corley ) writes: > >Yes, I have been corrected from several quarters so I will relent: >1. You can see man-made lakes from orbit, and >2. With certain photographic equipment and correct atmospheric >conditions you can see the Great Wall from a low orbit. Actually, I'm pretty sure you can see *all kinds* of man-made stuff from low earth orbit (just a few hundred KM). I wouldn't even rule out seeing major interstate highways, etc. Cities would be easily noted, even when not lit. How I suspect all this got started: A. The claim has often been made that "The Great Wall of China is the only man-made structure that would be visible to the naked eye from the moon." B. Then, somebody finally got around to (correctly) debunking that; the moon is roughly 1000 times more distant from the earth's surface than a spacecraft in low earth orbit. No, Virginia, you CANNOT see the Great Wall from there. C. Then somebody got even more confused, and changed this to "You cannot even see the Great Wall from space." Of course, at 1/1000 the lunar distance, you'll see it quite easily. -- Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - sheaffer@netcom.com Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized! "Beware when the great God lets loose a thinker on this planet. Then all things are at risk. It is as when a conflagration has broken out in a great city, and no man knows what is safe, or where it will end." - Emerson: Essay, "Circles" Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12926 alt.alien.visitors:11349 sci.skeptic:34819 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!jnielsen From: jnielsen@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (John F Nielsen) Subject: Re: Alien Ships. Message-ID: <1992Nov26.010208.28572@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> Sender: news@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Nntp-Posting-Host: photon.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Organization: The Ohio State University References: <70056@cup.portal.com> <1992Nov25.114326.1797@dct.ac.uk> Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1992 01:02:08 GMT Lines: 84 In article <1992Nov25.114326.1797@dct.ac.uk> mcsdc1al@dct.ac.uk writes: >In article , pashdown@javelin.sim.es.com (Pete Ashdown) writes: >> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >> >>>13. People from inside our Earth. >> >> The short ones with pointy little red caps? > The whole problem is even if all this stuff about aliens is true, you still need some type of proof to prove the point. Otherwise why should one believe you any more than anyone else? For example, someone may have had the idea that all objects fall at the same speed if you take out air resistance. It may be a nice idea, but if you cannot prove it, then that is all what it is, a nice idea. And, regardless of how honest a person may be, anectodotal evidence is worthless. If you had to accept anectodotal evidence then the whole idea of knowledge is worthless. Why should we accept your anectodotal evidence more than anyone else? >Grow up, man. There are creatures we know nothing of. It makes perfect sense >to believe that once, thousandsof years ago, a whole race descendedto escape >natural disasters such as a flood (the great flood as described in the bible?) >and remain there. You shouldn't dismiss this possibillity so easily. We're >not talking about Hobbits here but the possibillity of a whole race, possibly >even new species existing that we still know nothing of. > Just because it could possibly happen, that does not mean that it did happen. It's possible that there are invisible beings that jump around in the air causing our weather patterns, which have craftily made it so we can not detect them, but does that mean that they exist? Why makes your ideas more plausible than the next guys? >While I would have to question the Aldeberon thing, there can be little doubt >that the pyramids in Egypt, along with The Nazca Plains, are evidence of the >existence of extraterrestrial life. If extraterresterials made or helped make the pyramids why was not there any evidence of technology more advanced than of that time (like stainless steel bolts, power tools, anything of higher technological manufacture). I'd think if aliens were helping to build the objects they would at least use better stuff than primitive technology. Also, what would they need them for? Pretty things to look at? They would probably have already extensive navigating systems. > >>>There are over 100 places that people are coming from to observe Earth. >>>John Winston. That may very well be true, but if you cannot prove it with *something* *anything*, Your word is no better than mine. For example, if I have a theory that these little invisisble people fly around making our weather patterns how would you disprove it? You may counter that we could detect bodies in the air currents even if we could not see them. I would then counter with that they are so technologocally advanced that they figured out a way around it. You would then counter with something I would then counter with something else. The thing is, as long as I have to prove nothing then I can continue adding to the story ad infinitum with every attempt you make to show i am wrong. So, why is my little weather people any less believeable than the other theories? john -- John Nielsen MAGNUS Consultant ______ ______ __ __ jnielsen@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu /\ __ \ /\ ___\ /\ \/\ \ \ \ \/\ \\ \___ \\ \ \_\ \ Back off man, I'm a Scientist! \ \_____\\/\_____\\ \_____\ Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!jnielsen From: jnielsen@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (John F Nielsen) Subject: Re: Wake up to reality^2 Message-ID: <1992Nov26.011023.28771@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> Sender: news@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Nntp-Posting-Host: photon.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Organization: The Ohio State University References: <1992Nov17.164138.23670@tamsun.tamu.edu> <1992Nov21.201400.21960@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> <1992Nov25.135219.1@woods.ulowell.edu> Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1992 01:10:23 GMT Lines: 38 In article <1992Nov25.135219.1@woods.ulowell.edu> lewish@woods.ulowell.edu writes: > >In article <1992Nov21.201400.21960@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, jnielsen@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (John F Nielsen) writes: >> In article <1992Nov17.164138.23670@tamsun.tamu.edu> cjr6495@tamsun.tamu.edu (Opera_Ghost) writes: >>>In article <1553.479.uupcb@homebase.com> joseph.daniels@homebase.com (Joseph Daniels) writes: > >> That is not the point. You do not prove something's existance >> by not being able to disprove it's existance. >> >> I cannot disprove that a purple red wood with candy canes for leaves >> exists in Australia. However, that does not make it unreasonable >> to say that it does not exist. Without any proof an alien is in >> the same catagory as the purple redwood. >> > > >I Know a few theologists who would disagree with you. > >Disclaimer "This statement by no means suggests that I agree with either side >of the discussion, I just disagree with you." > Ok show me your point? If you are talking about FAITH, that is a whole other ballpark. Faith wouldn't be faith if there was proof. The whole idea of faith revolves around the fact that there is no proof, you have to have FAITH that whatever it is exists. But, that does not mean anyone else should believe you. john -- John Nielsen MAGNUS Consultant ______ ______ __ __ jnielsen@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu /\ __ \ /\ ___\ /\ \/\ \ \ \ \/\ \\ \___ \\ \ \_\ \ Back off man, I'm a Scientist! \ \_____\\/\_____\\ \_____\ Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!spool.mu.edu!sgiblab!adagio.panasonic.com!nntp-server.caltech.edu!magney From: kanga.caltech.edu!magney (Michael Agney) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Alien Ships. Date: 25 Nov 1992 22:15:30 GMT Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena Lines: 20 Message-ID: <1f0tu2INN4vl@gap.caltech.edu> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: krusty.caltech.edu Originator: magney@krusty In article pashdown@javelin.sim.es.com (Pete Ashdown) writes: > John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: > >21. Aldeberon the makers of the generators and motors under the Great Pyramid > >of Egypt. Third planet from the star (sun) Aldeberon. > > No, you are WRONG on this one John. Aldeberon got nuked by the Death Star, I > saw it happen. > No, no, no. It was ALDERAAN that got nuked by the Death Star. To paraphrase someone else, if you're going to plagiarize George Lucas, at least get it right. -- | Michael Agney | Yd - gender neutral pronoun | | | (well, not quite) | | | Source: Stories by Alison | | magney@cco.caltech.edu | Tellure, back issues of Analog | Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!mcsun!sun4nl!hacktic!blackhl!stycx!peter From: peter@stycx.hacktic.nl (Author) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Pictures of Alien (Roswell) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 24 Nov 92 10:46:54 PST Organization: River of Doom. Running through Central Holland Lines: 17 Hi, everyone. I was reading UFO Crash Secrets at Wright/Patterson Air Force base, by James W. Moseley. On the backcover of this book a picture apperently of one of the aliens recovered from the crash site. This picture seems to originate from the late Prof Zigel. At the end of page 82 of that book it is said that recently a third photo of a far superior quality is circulating among American UFOlogists. Does anyone have more information on that picture and possibly even has seen it. Please let me know. Greetings Peter ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- peter@stycx.hacktic.nl (5W) Crawling out from the river of darkness into your own private pinball machine Call STYCX (Waffle 1.65) from 23:00 to 06:00 Central European Time Number +31-3404-59551 Newkid Intown the nastiest Sysop arround Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!mcsun!sun4nl!hacktic!blackhl!stycx!peter From: peter@stycx.hacktic.nl (Author) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Underground Facilities Message-ID: Date: Wed, 25 Nov 92 09:52:06 PST References: <141179.2B116D42@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Organization: River of Doom. Running through Central Holland Lines: 22 > > > The thing sounds pretty wild to me, but I commited myself to an open > > mind > > and a 'bann' on the word impossible. > > As Joe Nickell once said, "While we should be open to new ideas, we should no > > Mike I couldn't agree more, the thing is however that one should never take something as unimportant or irrelevant before investigating it. One can say for oneself this or that conjecture is less likely, but one can only come to a more or less definite conclusion after at least doing some research. Greetings Peter ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- peter@stycx.hacktic.nl (5W) Crawling out from the river of darkness into your own private pinball machine Call STYCX (Waffle 1.65) from 23:00 to 06:00 Central European Time Number +31-3404-59551 Newkid Intown the nastiest Sysop arround Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12928 alt.alien.visitors:11354 sci.skeptic:34823 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: <70155@cup.portal.com> Date: Mon, 23 Nov 92 19:00:38 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> Lines: 7 Dear Combatants: Now in this corner we have Don Showen and the other is the great amazing Robert Sheaffer. Who will win? May it be a good fight and no cussing please, there may be women listening. I have been told that the book I was referring to in the 1880s encounter is called Pearl of Great Price and it is part of a larger book called Doctrine of Covenants. John Winston Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12929 alt.alien.visitors:11355 sci.skeptic:34824 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!spool.mu.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: <70202@cup.portal.com> Date: Tue, 24 Nov 92 06:12:10 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> Lines: 7 Dear Humans: After thinking about what I said about Mr. Sheaffer and Mr. Showen maybe I had better amend that a little. I have had the opportunity of meeting both of these gentlemen before and they are are true leaders of their ways of thinking. People do follow them. You can be sure that after these two discuss a subject no stone will be unturned to find the truth. John Winston Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12930 alt.alien.visitors:11356 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: UFOs and Newage Message-ID: <70203@cup.portal.com> Date: Tue, 24 Nov 92 06:31:33 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) Distribution: world References: <64264@cup.portal.com> Lines: 3 Dear People: Yes Siree bob, here we are starting another week. John Winston. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12931 alt.alien.visitors:11357 sci.skeptic:34825 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: <70204@cup.portal.com> Date: Tue, 24 Nov 92 06:33:50 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> Lines: 3 Dear Folks: Remember today is tuesday and tomorrow is OOBE wednesday. Same time same space craft. John Winston. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12932 alt.alien.visitors:11358 alt.religion.kibology:4879 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology Subject: Re: Big Bird Message-ID: <70205@cup.portal.com> Date: Tue, 24 Nov 92 06:38:45 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <70026@cup.portal.com> <1992Nov22.184423.1029@geovision.gvc.com> <70104@cup.portal.com> <1992Nov23.182821.2929@dartvax.dartmouth.edu> Lines: 4 Dear People: I think your making fun of my spelling of the word Forengi. Maybe I have instulted the Forengi and should beg their forgiveness that is if they were a real people. John Winston. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12933 alt.alien.visitors:11359 sci.skeptic:34826 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: <70255@cup.portal.com> Date: Tue, 24 Nov 92 19:16:55 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> Lines: 6 Dear Folks: The people from Legart use the word abort to mean, to stop a mission or a firing of a missle among other things. Legart is a planet I think in the Libra constellation (if I remember right). It's about 17 light years away according to our scientist but they (the space people from Legart) say it is only about 14 light years away. John Winston. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12934 alt.alien.visitors:11360 alt.religion.kibology:4880 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology Subject: Re: Big Bird Message-ID: <70256@cup.portal.com> Date: Tue, 24 Nov 92 19:33:02 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <70026@cup.portal.com> <1992Nov22.184423.1029@geovision.gvc.com> <70104@cup.portal.com> <1992Nov23.182821.2929@dartvax.dartmouth.edu> <70205@cup.portal.com> Lines: 2 Dear Folks: That should have been insulted. John Winston. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12935 alt.alien.visitors:11361 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: UFOs and Newage Message-ID: <70257@cup.portal.com> Date: Tue, 24 Nov 92 19:34:41 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) Distribution: world References: <64264@cup.portal.com> Lines: 2 Dear Folks: I have nothing to say and no time to say it in. John Winston. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12936 alt.alien.visitors:11362 sci.skeptic:34827 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: <70292@cup.portal.com> Date: Wed, 25 Nov 92 06:18:21 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> Lines: 3 Dear Folk: Tomorrow is Thankgiving. Have a good one. I'm a genuine card carrying vegetarian so remember WE TURKEYS SHALL OVERCOME. John Winston. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12937 alt.alien.visitors:11363 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: UFOs and Newage Message-ID: <70293@cup.portal.com> Date: Wed, 25 Nov 92 06:20:54 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) Distribution: world References: <64264@cup.portal.com> Lines: 3 Dear Folks: If I can get some time maybe I'll try to tell you about the Mysterious Rock Circles of Mt. Shasta. John Winston Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12938 alt.alien.visitors:11364 alt.religion.kibology:4881 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology Subject: Re: Bigfootf spaceman? Message-ID: <70294@cup.portal.com> Date: Wed, 25 Nov 92 06:22:38 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) Distribution: world References: <67397@cup.portal.com> Lines: 2 Dear Folks: Soon I'll try to put down something about Dinosaurs Today. John Winston Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!Don_-_Showen From: Don_-_Showen@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: CONTACT NOTES Message-ID: <70297@cup.portal.com> Date: Wed, 25 Nov 92 08:03:49 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) Distribution: world References: <1881.479.uupcb@homebase.com> Lines: 21 I have the transcripts from the Pleiades contact. They are really hard to read since they are translated from German. I am really grateful to Wendell Stevens for his time and trouble in publishing them in a more readable form. As far as the UMMO aliens I have not seen reference to them in what I have read. Although I think Wendell has published a book on that contact. So my suggestions are to contact Meiers at his center in Switzerland. Or to order Wendells two books. UFO Contact from Planet UMNO Vol 1 & 2 which contain halftones, sketches, and diagrams. I would write first to see if he still has any, UFO Photo Archives, P.O. Box 17206, Tucson, Az. 85710, USA I think Meiers group is called The Samjase Silver Star Center in Switzerland. I have seen the address but do not have it available right now. I hope this helps. Don Showen Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12940 alt.alien.visitors:11366 sci.skeptic:34831 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: <70328@cup.portal.com> Date: Wed, 25 Nov 92 19:10:30 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> Lines: 6 Dear Folks: It's OOBE wednnesday and I'm about to blast off. I have just been told by Sharula through her newsletter that during the 25th of Nov. (thanksgiving night) is the proper time to watch the running of the River STYX in the Great Pyramid of Egypt. I'll be going there tomorrow night by OOBE. Come along if your like. John Winston. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12941 alt.alien.visitors:11367 sci.skeptic:34832 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!uunet!mnemosyne.cs.du.edu!nyx!mporter From: mporter@nyx.cs.du.edu (Mitchell Porter) Subject: Re: Alien Ships. Message-ID: <1992Nov26.031734.6608@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> Sender: usenet@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu (netnews admin account) Organization: University of Denver, Dept. of Math & Comp. Sci. References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <70056@cup.portal.com> <1992Nov25.114326.1797@dct.ac.uk> Date: Thu, 26 Nov 92 03:17:34 GMT Lines: 8 mcsdc1al@dct.ac.uk writes: >While I would have to question the Aldeberon thing, there can be little doubt ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^! >that the pyramids in Egypt, along with The Nazca Plains, are evidence of the >existence of extraterrestrial life. Not to mention the Great Wall of China, the Golden Gate Bridge, Ayers Rock, Disneyland, Stonehenge, Hyde Park and the Dallas School Book Depository. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12942 alt.alien.visitors:11368 sci.skeptic:34835 alt.slack:4735 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic,alt.slack Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!spool.mu.edu!uunet!mnemosyne.cs.du.edu!nyx!mporter From: mporter@nyx.cs.du.edu (Mitchell Porter) Subject: Re: Alien Ships. Message-ID: <1992Nov26.034253.7366@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> Sender: usenet@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu (netnews admin account) Organization: University of Denver, Dept. of Math & Comp. Sci. References: <70056@cup.portal.com> <1992Nov25.114326.1797@dct.ac.uk> <1992Nov25.174653.8754@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> Date: Thu, 26 Nov 92 03:42:53 GMT Lines: 26 amorgan@csd-d-3.Stanford.EDU (Crunchy Frog) writes: >Oh really? While I was reading a book by Martin Gardner about this >sort of stuff, he was talking about some other book which claimed more >or less what you say. Mr. Gardner made a remark which I thought was >fairly interesting. He said (more or less) "This person has no difficultly >believing that Stonehenge was built by people, or that Hadrians wall was, >or the castles of England. Oddly enough all these structures were built >by white people. Of course, if Africans or Mexicans have huge >constructions in their countries it must be because extra-terrestrials >helped them. Dark skinned people couldn't possibly do it by themselves." >Why are the pyramids and Nazca lines evidence for ETs? >C Frog Indeed. As the Book of the SubGenius tells us about the Xists: These benign space monsters have walked among us throughout history, investigating and sometimes resisting the omnipervasive presence of JHVH-1 and His Minions (of whom they themselves number!). The extinction of the dinosaurs, the rise and "fall" of Atlantis shortly thereafter, the erection of the Pyramids, Stonehenge and other monuments which *no slopeheads alone could possibly build*, all these events and more are so inextricably interwoven with the invisible background wars between the Xists, JHVH-1, and the Elder Gods, that all the "Ancient Astronaut" fossils in the world offer only the barest of clues. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12943 alt.alien.visitors:11369 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!caen!uunet!munnari.oz.au!ariel.ucs.unimelb.EDU.AU!werple.apana.org.au!news From: alfa@werple.apana.org.au (Glenn Durden) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: UFOs and Newage Date: 26 Nov 1992 14:47:04 +1100 Organization: werple public-access unix, Melbourne Lines: 14 Message-ID: <1f1hboINN7m3@werple.apana.org.au> NNTP-Posting-Host: werple.apana.org.au John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >Subject: Lone Pine Pyramid. >Part 3. [loads of garbage deleted] > I will be glad to tell or show anyone who is interested in the pyramid where >it is as long as they can prove to me that they are part of the group that >built it So let me get this straight... if they can prove they built it, you'll kindly show them where it is. Wouldnt they know already???? Xref: icaen alt.folklore.urban:56305 alt.alien.visitors:11370 alt.religion.kibology:4885 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.urban,alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!wupost!uunet!world!kibo From: kibo@world.std.com (James "Kibo" Parry) Subject: Re: Send Kibo pelts to Nike Message-ID: Keywords: Kibo Organization: Two rooms filled with typography, in downtown Boston References: <49940@shamash.cdc.com> Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1992 04:20:08 GMT Lines: 10 In article <49940@shamash.cdc.com> dternes@duke.cdc.com (David Ternes) writes: > >Are kibos cool grey before or after they're waxed? I thought "cool grey" was what Doritos tasted like on other planets. Or was that the Celestial Seasonings tea with the saucer people on the box? -- K. Xref: icaen sci.physics:32585 alt.sci.physics.new-theories:2442 sci.optics:1610 alt.alien.visitors:11371 alt.religion.kibology:4886 Newsgroups: sci.physics,alt.sci.physics.new-theories,sci.optics,alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!wupost!uunet!world!kibo From: kibo@world.std.com (James "Kibo" Parry) Subject: Re: Will irreversibility permit quantum connection communication? Message-ID: Followup-To: alt.religion.kibology,alt.sci.physics.new-theories Organization: Two rooms filled with typography, in downtown Boston References: Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1992 04:25:49 GMT Lines: 16 In article sarfatti@well.sf.ca.us (Jack Sarfatti) writes: >so that the quantum connection signal induced by absorption at the first >polarizinf bean splitter in the transmitter Mach-Zehnder interferometer >appears to be > >p(e'+') - p(0'-') = sin2@[||||cos(666+phi-arg-arg) OH NO!!!! HE'S GOT A POLARIZINF BEAN SPLITTER!!!! KEEP THAT AWAY FROM MY GARBANZO SALAD!!!! Have you been holding your head in one of those space-inverted tetrion beams at the "Star Trek: Federation Science" museum exhibit again? Or maybe you're "Bigfootf"'s secret love child? -- K. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12946 alt.alien.visitors:11372 sci.skeptic:34847 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!spool.mu.edu!uunet!pipex!warwick!str-ccsun!dct.ac.uk!mcsdc1al From: mcsdc1al@dct.ac.uk Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Alien Ships. Message-ID: <1992Nov26.101436.1848@dct.ac.uk> Date: 26 Nov 92 10:14:36 GMT References: <70056@cup.portal.com> <1992Nov25.114326.1797@dct.ac.uk> <1992Nov25.192638.16482@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu> Organization: Dundee Institute of Technology Lines: 71 In article <1992Nov25.192638.16482@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu>, corleyj@helium.gas.uug.arizona.edu (Jason D Corley ) writes: > In article <1992Nov25.114326.1797@dct.ac.uk> mcsdc1al@dct.ac.uk writes: >>In article , pashdown@javelin.sim.es.com (Pete Ashdown) writes: >>> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >>> The short ones with pointy little red caps? >> >>Grow up, man. There are creatures we know nothing of. It makes perfect sense >>to believe that once, thousandsof years ago, a whole race descendedto escape >>natural disasters such as a flood (the great flood as described in the bible?) >>and remain there. You shouldn't dismiss this possibillity so easily. We're >>not talking about Hobbits here but the possibillity of a whole race, possibly >>even new species existing that we still know nothing of. >> >> > Oh, you mean they wear GREEN caps. Ohhhh...... > Look, the whole Hollow Earth theory is completely ludicrous. If > indeed the Earth is hollow, then how do you explain its gravitational > activity, calculated to several dozen decimal places with several > dozen objects? We can measure the force of gravity and from that > we can get the mass of the Earth. If the Earth is hollow, then > the force of gravity would be less...but it isn't, so it ain't. > Hate to be the shriveled carrot under your peach cobbler, but the > world ain't hollow and there ain't nobody inside. >> No one said the Earth is hollow. That would be a ludicrous thing to suggest because we know it to be untrue. What I was really suggesting was that there is a possibility that there are undiscovered species on this planet, maybe even ancestors to Homo Sapiens that have evolved differently through enviromental change. There's no reason at all why there couldn't be a thousand species of animal living hundreds of miles below the Earth's surface. >> >>> >>>>21. Aldeberon the makers of the generators and motors under the Great Pyramid >>>>of Egypt. Third planet from the star (sun) Aldeberon. >>> >>> No, you are WRONG on this one John. Aldeberon got nuked by the Death Star, I >>> saw it happen. >>> >> >>existence of extraterrestrial life. > > No, no no no no no no no. The Pyramids in Egypt are evidence of the > ingenuity and patience of the Ancient Egyptians (as well as their > THRIVING slave labor trade), and the Nazca Lines are evidence of the > religious devotion of the natives living there. These are not > mysteries, they are anthropological truths, found through decades > (and, in the case of the Pyramids, centuries) of research and > extrapolation. > I explained the pyramid thing to a guy last night, well partly at least. I don't have the time to put a full and detailed posting on the subject and frankly I wouldn't anyway because you never know who's reading. The pyramids were built by aliens aided by the Egyptians, using sound to construct them. The Nazca lines were ORIGINALLY runways for UFOs. After alien activity and research in the area stopped the Nazca indians added to the lines creating pictures in the plains. They even learned how to fly from the aliens allowing them to see their work. > Jason > > Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12947 alt.alien.visitors:11373 sci.skeptic:34848 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!Sirius.dfn.de!chx400!sparc2!news From: milsom@ntb.ch (Paul Milsom) Subject: Re: Alien Ships. Message-ID: <1992Nov26.111000.23147@ntb.ch> Keywords: Pyramids Sender: usenet@ntb.ch (Mr. Usenet) Reply-To: milsom@ntb.ch (Paul Milsom) Organization: Neu-Technikum Buchs References: <1992Nov25.192638.16482@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu> Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1992 11:10:00 GMT Lines: 7 The pyramids were not built by slaves, but by paid workers. The construction is well documented and understood. No aliens are mentioned. Paul. Paul Milsom milsom@ntb.ch Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!destroyer!cs.ubc.ca!unixg.ubc.ca!kakwa.ucs.ualberta.ca!ersys!wowee!kellym From: kellym@wowee.ersys.edmonton.ab.ca (Kelly Martin) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: CONTACT NOTES Message-ID: Date: 26 Nov 92 01:19:17 MST Distribution: world Organization: Not an Organization X-NewsSoftware: GRn 1.16f (10.17.92) by Mike Schwartz & Michael B. Smith Lines: 21 In article <1881.479.uupcb@homebase.com> joseph.daniels@homebase.com (Joseph Daniels) writes: > Does anyone have information about transcripts from the teachings of the > Pleiadians to Billy Miejer? There are thousands of pages covering all > branches of science. > > There are also over 800 pages of transcripts from UMMO Aliens in France. > I am interested in examining the contents of these Alien transcripts. > Thanks. I'd like to see something like this too, though probably not all of the 800 pages! Someone could weed through it and pull out interesting pieces, as long as they don't become read out of context. A 'summary' is a bit too subjective, because many people might read the transcripts a different way. > . SLMR 2.1a . InfoNet London (519)649-1453 Hit ^C and enter HELP at $ -- %"Vhuuut, you donna' like'a my zooop?"-Fred Flintstone, impersonating a chef % kellY Martin UUCP:kellym@wowee.ersys.edmonton.ab.ca (1:342/53.5@fidonet) Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!sybus.sybus.com!myrddin!palan!tct!mechanic!Lauren.Podolak From: Lauren.Podolak@mechanic.Fidonet.org (Lauren Podolak) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Space Craft From Oth Message-ID: <94.2B14B52E@mechanic.Fidonet.org> Date: Tue, 17 Nov 92 19:31:00 PDT Organization: Mechanic: The Usenet<->Fidonet Gateway oF St. Pete Florida Lines: 19 WD> 4 light years an hour, hmmm that works out to Warp 32.73 according to WD>my formula. Captain Kirk and Scotty must be green with envy... Actually the method given for Warp calculations vis-a-vis StarTrek is not valid since Capt Kirk and crew frequently went as far away as 15,000 lightyears which would have taken more than 5 years at warp 10..... an exponential series would probably work better, like ( x ! ).... Lauren ___ X OLX 2.1 TD X Who said that Interstellar Empires don't exit? -- Internet: Lauren.Podolak@mechanic.Fidonet.org UUCP: ...!myrddin!tct!mechanic!Lauren.Podolak Note: Mechanic is a free gateway between USENET & FIdonet. For information write to chief@mechanic.fidonet.org Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!sybus.sybus.com!myrddin!palan!tct!mechanic!Lauren.Podolak From: Lauren.Podolak@mechanic.Fidonet.org (Lauren Podolak) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Re^2: alien info.wan Message-ID: <95.2B14B530@mechanic.Fidonet.org> Date: Tue, 17 Nov 92 19:36:02 PDT Organization: Mechanic: The Usenet<->Fidonet Gateway oF St. Pete Florida Lines: 17 RB>>Is it a ufology requirement that one know nothing of elementary RB>astronomy? RB>Is it an astronomy requirement that one be a pompous ass? Dont you think though that people who insist on referring to constellations as actual coordinated stellar systems as being uninformed? ___ X OLX 2.1 TD X Unable to locate Coca Cola -- Operator Halted! -- Internet: Lauren.Podolak@mechanic.Fidonet.org UUCP: ...!myrddin!tct!mechanic!Lauren.Podolak Note: Mechanic is a free gateway between USENET & FIdonet. For information write to chief@mechanic.fidonet.org Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!spool.mu.edu!agate!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!cleveland.Freenet.Edu!cc203 From: cc203@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (David R. Stepien) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: UFO March on Washington Date: 26 Nov 1992 16:07:09 GMT Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA) Lines: 37 Message-ID: <1f2sndINN5k7@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> Reply-To: cc203@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (David R. Stepien) NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu This is for real - folks! ______________________________________________________________________________ OPERATION RIGHT TO KNOW Send a message to Congress & the White House to end Disinformation & Secrecy regarding the U.S. Government's Contact with Off-World Civilizations Documented Evidence of the reality of UFOs is overwhelming, including evidence the U.S. military retrieved a crashed flying saucer in New Mexico in 1947. Our Government's policy of withholding and confusing the facts of extraterrestrial contact is WRONG and MUST END. We demand full disclosure of government UFO secrets and an open, public inquiry into the phenomena. We believe that the government's policy of tightly restricting UFO data, however well-intentioned it originally may have been, causes far more harm than simply telling the truth. DEMONSTRATION, MARCH & RALLY Date: July 5, 1993, Monday (a Federal holiday) Time: Afternoon Place: Whlte House sidewalk Rally at the Ellipse Sponsored by: Operation Right to Know Join Operation Right To Know and recieve our 8 page newsletter that keeps our membership informed as to our activities. The membership fee is $15.00 to be sent to Operation Riqht To Know at P.O. Box 2911, Hyattsville, MD, 20784. For more information call or write Ed Komarek at Rt. 3 Box 1076, Thomasville, CA, 31792, Phone 912-377-7098, or Elaine Douglass at 1801 Clydesdale, Suite 501 Washington, DC, 20009. ______________________________________________________________________________ Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!csus.edu!netcom.com!payner From: payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne) Subject: Re: Space Craft From Oth Message-ID: <1992Nov26.162041.2268@netcom.com> Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) References: <94.2B14B52E@mechanic.Fidonet.org> Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1992 16:20:41 GMT Lines: 25 In article <94.2B14B52E@mechanic.Fidonet.org> Lauren.Podolak@mechanic.Fidonet.org (Lauren Podolak) writes: >WD> 4 light years an hour, hmmm that works out to Warp 32.73 according to >WD>my formula. Captain Kirk and Scotty must be green with envy... > >Actually the method given for Warp calculations vis-a-vis StarTrek is >not valid since Capt Kirk and crew frequently went as far away as 15,000 >lightyears which would have taken more than 5 years at warp 10..... > >an exponential series would probably work better, like ( x ! ).... Factorials are not exponential by the usual usage of the word, that is, they are not power series of any base. And factorials grow much faster. >Lauren >Internet: Lauren.Podolak@mechanic.Fidonet.org >UUCP: ...!myrddin!tct!mechanic!Lauren.Podolak >Note: Mechanic is a free gateway between USENET & FIdonet. > For information write to chief@mechanic.fidonet.org > Rich payner@netcom.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!caen!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!csus.edu!netcom.com!payner From: payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne) Subject: Re: hypnosis experimentation Message-ID: <1992Nov26.162740.2609@netcom.com> Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) References: <722719753.F00001@tdkt.kksys.com> Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1992 16:27:40 GMT Lines: 42 In article <722719753.F00001@tdkt.kksys.com> Keith.Spears@f108.n282.z1.tdkt.kksys.com (Keith Spears) writes: >RP>Subjects were flashed (I assume slides) images of the back of a car. > >The license plates were unreadable. It seems that the subjects would > >recall a license number under hypnosis. I do not recall if it was some > >or all. The conclusion I recall was that they would come up with the > >numbers in order to please the hypnotist. > >RP>I am not trying to be vague, this is what I remember. > >Without know precisely how the questions were phrased, though, it would >be hard to take those results as conclusive of anything. Exact wording >can make a big difference - if they asked "leading" questions, the >answers may well have been meaningless. More to the point, have not the results of hypnosis been assumed accurate, with no basis? It seems that the accuracy could be quite easily tested, by experiments like the one above. One of these days I will see if I can look this up. >While I've never used hypnosis in connection with alien abductions (and >therefore can't say much on the validity of implanting memories of >such), I've noticed that people do occasionally take "past life >regressions" as experiences that have truly happened, i.e. the >regression incorporated into memory as an actual event. Not too often, >though, and it's not something I've really documented. I just read a post in sci-skeptic where the poster was talking about reincarnation and past lives. It seems many do believe that these things are real. If they are planted memories essentially no different from actual memories, then they would indeed seem real. Not that I am clear on what the difference(s) between real and planted memories are. > * OLX 2.1 TD * That is not dead which can eternal lie... > * Origin: THE CITY LIGHTS <612-633-1366> <14.4> (1:282/108) Rich payner@netcom.com Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12949 alt.alien.visitors:11380 sci.skeptic:34860 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!spool.mu.edu!olivea!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: <70347@cup.portal.com> Date: 26 Nov 92 16:13:08 GMT References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> Organization: The Portal System (TM) Lines: 32 Subject: Two Year Old. Well we've been talking about weird babies. Now let us progress to a weird two year old. We have a young lady who thinks she is the present day living breathing personification of a movie star that died on Oct. 6th 1989. Her name is Belinda Condon. Incredibly, she has the same flashing eyes as Bette Davis. She even speaks the motion picture star's most famous lines spontaneously, although she has only just begun to talk. "She grabs at cigarettes and holds them, sniffing at the smoke like she loves it," said the child's mother, Sue Condon of Lexington, Ky. USA. Bette Davis was a chain smoker and our little Belinda seems to be as crazy about cigarettes as she was. Once she looked around our living room and said, "What a dump, " just like that line from the Bette Davis movie. She likes to play dress up and wear hats with veils and clunky high heels. And she's always walking around with her hands in the back pockets of her jeans, her head thrown back just like the famous star. Sue and her husband Buddy say their daughter has never seen a Bette Davis movie and has never even heard the star talked about. Yet her uncanny resemblance to the actress is so noticeable that strangers always remark on it. The Condons say their daughter -who usually speaks just a few baby words-ocasionally breaks into lines from Davis movies. Once, she awoke from a nap, stood up in her crib and said, "Oh Jerry, we have the stars, let's not ask for the moon"- famous words Davis spoke in her movie, Now, Voyager. Mostly it's Belinda's eyes that really startle people. They are exactly like Bette Davis' eyes. They are enormous and they protrude slightly and she uses them very day she will be just as famous. This is your truly, (J W) speaking now. What do you think? John Winston. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12950 alt.alien.visitors:11381 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: UFOs and Newage Message-ID: <70352@cup.portal.com> Date: Thu, 26 Nov 92 10:21:07 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) Distribution: world References: <64264@cup.portal.com> Lines: 39 Subject: The Mysterious Mt. Shasta Rock Circles. A few years back I read a book that talked about the fact that scientists have found some circles on the sides of Mt. Shasta that nobody up till then could figure out. This area is on the north side of Mt. Shasta a certain distance from the top of the mountain. They appear as round areas made from rock, say about 30 feet across, if I remember right. They look like a rock wall just near the surface and they extend down into the ground. Inside of these areas is a layer of large stome then small stone and then soil. There are walk areas between the circles. I have seen pictures of these circles on some shots taken of the mountain taken by high altitude air craft and these are in the book. The book is called Mount Shasta, Home of the Ancients Edited by Bruce Walton, Health Research PO Box, 70, Mokelumme Hill Calif. 95245. I don't know whether that address is still good or not. I bought my book at the San Jose Book Shop. 1231 Kentwood Ave. San Jose, Calif. 408-446-0590. It also states that a psychic person contacted some of the middle sized people who are in the mountain (not the White Robed Men or the little people but the middle sized people, maybe 3.5 feet tall). These people said that before the white people came to this country they built these rock circles. They built them to be gardens that are protected by rocks so that they could grown their vegetables and other things and the brush and trees wouldn't crowd in on their plants. The circles are connected by walk paths made of stone. Now that the white man (and I, JW am a white man with a little bit of American Indian blood in me) has been on the mountain they no longer take care of the gardens but only come out ever so often each year during some of their ceremonies. I made a trip into the area looking for these circles one time during the Harmonic Convergence but didn't locate them. I believe that if a person would go to the National Geological Survey in Menlo Park, Calif. and get the photographs of the area then he or she could find them. Let me know if you find them. I once contacted the author Mr. Bruce Walton and asked him some questions about the mountain and he said that he didn't believe any of the stories in the book, he just edited the stories and since that time he had become a born again christian (like ex-president Jimmy Carter) and is no longer interest in Mt. Shasta. John Winston. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12951 alt.alien.visitors:11382 sci.skeptic:34862 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!torn!nott!bnrgate!bmerh85!bcarh1eb!zenith89 From: zenith89@bcarh1eb.bnr.ca (Chris VanFleet) Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: <1992Nov26.185037.2976@bmerh85.bnr.ca> Sender: news@bmerh85.bnr.ca (Usenet News) Reply-To: zenith89@bcarh1eb.bnr.ca () Organization: Bell-Northern Research, Ltd., Ottawa, CANADA References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <70347@cup.portal.com> Date: Thu, 26 Nov 92 18:50:37 GMT Lines: 12 In article <70347@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >Subject: Two Year Old. > Well we've been talking about weird babies. Now let us progress to a weird >two year old. > We have a young lady who thinks she is the present day living breathing >personification of a movie star that died on Oct. 6th 1989. Her name is >Belinda Condon. Incredibly, she has the same flashing eyes as Bette Davis. > ...(deleted)... > This is your truly, (J W) speaking now. What do you think? >John Winston. Which tabloid newspaper did you copy from this time John? ...CPV Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!peora!tarpit!tous!bilver!dona From: dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) Subject: Re: CONTACT NOTES Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1992 18:03:44 GMT Message-ID: <1992Nov26.180344.10513@bilver.uucp> References: <1881.479.uupcb@homebase.com> Lines: 23 In article <1881.479.uupcb@homebase.com> joseph.daniels@homebase.com (Joseph Daniels) writes: >Does anyone have information about transcripts from the teachings of the >Pleiadians to Billy Miejer? There are thousands of pages covering all >branches of science. > >There are also over 800 pages of transcripts from UMMO Aliens in France. >I am interested in examining the contents of these Alien transcripts. >Thanks. > >--- > . SLMR 2.1a . InfoNet London (519)649-1453 Hit ^C and enter HELP at $ > Just a word of advice - UMMO is largely held to be a hoax of some magnitude. I suggest you read "Revelation" by Jacques Vallee, for starters. -- <*> Don Allen <*> 1:363/81.1 - Fidonet #1 - Homebody BBS dona@bilver.uucp - Internet 1:363/29.8 - Fidonet #2 - Gourmet Delight 88:4205/1.1 - MUFON Network 1:3607/20.2 -- Odyssey - Alabama UFO Net NSA grep food: Aviary, Ed Dames, Los Alamos - Majestic - Jason - RIIA - UN Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12952 alt.alien.visitors:11384 sci.skeptic:34865 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!pipex!warwick!str-ccsun!dct.ac.uk!mcsdc1al From: mcsdc1al@dct.ac.uk Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Dayy Message-ID: <1992Nov26.190733.1900@dct.ac.uk> Date: 26 Nov 92 19:07:33 GMT References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <70202@cup.portal.com> Organization: Dundee Institute of Technology Lines: 13 In article <70202@cup.portal.com>, John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: > Dear Humans: After thinking about what I said about Mr. Sheaffer and > Mr. Showen maybe I had better amend that a little. I have had the > opportunity of meeting both of these gentlemen before and they are > are true leaders of their ways of thinking. People do follow them. > You can be sure that after these two discuss a subject no stone > will be unturned to find the truth. > John Winston WINSTON! Is there no end to your impertinence? Nobody cares about your totally sad dribblings...why don't you do something constructive with your imagination? Whycan't you keep it to yourself? Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12953 alt.alien.visitors:11385 sci.skeptic:34866 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!spool.mu.edu!uunet!pipex!warwick!str-ccsun!dct.ac.uk!mcsdc1al From: mcsdc1al@dct.ac.uk Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Alien Ships. Message-ID: <1992Nov26.200619.1902@dct.ac.uk> Date: 26 Nov 92 20:06:19 GMT References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <70056@cup.portal.com> <1992Nov26.031734.6608@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> Organization: Dundee Institute of Technology Lines: 22 In article <1992Nov26.031734.6608@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>, mporter@nyx.cs.du.edu (Mitchell Porter) writes: > mcsdc1al@dct.ac.uk writes: >>While I would have to question the Aldeberon thing, there can be little doubt > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^! THERE IS NO DOUBT. >>that the pyramids in Egypt, along with The Nazca Pl ains, are evidence of the >>existence of extraterrestrial life. > Not to mention the Great Wall of China, the Golden Gate Bridge, Ayers Rock, > Disneyland, Stonehenge, Hyde Park and the Dallas School Book Depository. I'll tell you one thing, your posting certainly doesn't prove the existence of intelligent life. I will not disclose my full knowledge on the net. Why don't you e-mail me and I might fill you in. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12954 alt.alien.visitors:11386 alt.religion.kibology:4894 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!caen!uunet!gatech!concert!samba!sunSITE!jem From: jem@sunSITE.unc.edu (Jonathan Magid) Subject: Re: Big Bird Message-ID: <1992Nov26.213703.475@samba.oit.unc.edu> Sender: usenet@samba.oit.unc.edu Nntp-Posting-Host: sunsite.unc.edu Organization: University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill References: <70026@cup.portal.com> <1992Nov22.184423.1029@geovision.gvc.com> <70104@cup.portal.com> Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1992 21:37:03 GMT Lines: 17 In article <70104@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >Dear People: Can anyone enlighten me on the proper spelling of the >word Forengi, the type of people who are shown on Star Trek the Next >Generation who are traders. For some reason or another when I hear the >comment from the Kiboites I think of these type people. >John Winston. As far as I know, Kibo is the only type person around here... I don't watch a lot of star trek, but I think the Forengi are more of trader/peddler people than font designers. jem. -- Jonathan Magid jem@sunSITE.unc.edu sunSITE Administrator Virtual pizza Delivery (tm)::faxed in 30 cycles or less or you get it ----------------------------------------FREE!!!----------------------- Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!caen!destroyer!cs.ubc.ca!unixg.ubc.ca!kakwa.ucs.ualberta.ca!access.usask.ca!mizar.cc.umanitoba.ca!rutkows From: rutkows@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Chris Rutkowski) Subject: Swamp Gas Journal Message-ID: Summary: A new issue of the SGJ is posted Keywords: UFO, ufozine, crop circles, skeptic, believers Sender: news@ccu.umanitoba.ca Nntp-Posting-Host: ccu.umanitoba.ca Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Canada Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1992 21:51:55 GMT Lines: 788 Volume 6 The SWAMP GAS JOURNAL ISSN 0707-7106 Number 3 ********************* November 1992 This is the second issue of the SGJ which will be available in both online and hardcopy format. The response to the last issue was overwhelming, to say the least. It seems that there is a need for an electronic version of this zine, so from now on, as long as is feasible, the SGJ will be available via email. However, photos or graphics pages will not be included in the electronic version; they will be available in hardcopy only. (No, I do NOT want to hear about .gif and .pif files!) UFOs, LITs, LATERs, BOLs and WYSIWYG With regard to those pesky flying things, a recent story in TIME magazine (August 31, 1992, p.44) reported that: "UFO sightings are down, and the saucer spotters are getting skeptical. What on earth is going on?" This was most interesting, especially to ufologists who tabulate UFO activity. The UFOROM Canadian UFO Survey, for example, found that numbers of UFO reports increased during the past two years. Similarly, Paul Ferrughelli's annual report on American cases also found an increase. What HAS decreased is the media's interest in carrying stories about UFOs. This is not suprising, since the ridicule curtain (as named by Allen Hynek) is still in effect. Furthermore, the vocal efforts of CSICOP and independent skeptics' groups (that have absolutely NOTHING to do with CSICOP, obviously) have caused many editors to think twice before doing an article on paranormal phenomena. An article by Don Berliner in a recent issue of IUR (Vol.17, #5, Sept/Oct 1992, pp. 16-18), titled "Why the Press Acts That Way", enumerates the various reasons why ufology is not taken seriously by the media. The TIME article went on to describe a UFO investigator named Philip Mantle as one of "a new breed of UFOlogists who do not believe that UFOs come from outer space." Where has TIME been all these years? They interview New Agers wearing pyramid hats, and then interview Philip Klass, and they think they have a complete overview of ufology! In terms of sighting numbers, Ferrughelli's latest National Sighting Yearbook 1991 (60 Allen Drive, Wayne, NJ 07470) lists the following totals: 1987 - 170; 1988 - 291; 1989 - 268; 1990 - 194; and 1991 - 201. Report numbers dropped slightly in the early '90's, but numbers are still above the 1987 figure. In Canada, UFOROM's annual survey actually records many more cases per capita than the USA, and numbers hover steadily around 175 cases per year. Where's the drop in numbers that TIME describes? The article points to the Belgium wave, where 2000 sightings were recorded in 1991, but there have been only 50 in 1992 so far. In Britain, the article cites a similar number this year, compared to hundreds per year in the 1980's. But any ufologist worth his or her salt would have been able to explain the mechanics of flaps and waves, not to mention historical trends. So, the TIME article is not only wrong, it's not even well-researched. THE CIRCLE GAME Let's talk circles. For years now, I've been commenting upon the suspicious similarities between crop circles and classic UFO physical traces. I've pointed out that flattened areas of crushed vegetation have been found WITHOUT associated UFO activity throughout recorded history. In Canada, classic UGM cases include Langenburg in 1974 and Rossburn in 1977, both predating the British wave. And even Doug and Dave admitted getting their ideas to make their hoaxes from the Tully saucer nests in Australia back in 1967. Furthermore, I have said all along that the vast majority of crop circles are likely hoaxes. My own investigations and research, as well as consultation with others in this field, suggested that the Meaden vortex theory was not tenable, nor were theories concerning mating hedgehogs, lightning and whatever. My observations were that, although it is difficult to PROVE a particular site is a hoax, the likelihood of this being so is very strong. In recent issues of circle- and ufozines, some people seem to have arrived at similar conclusions. In particular, a recent article in the AFU (Sweden) Newsletter (No.36, Jan-Dec.1991) by Clas Svahn echoes many comments that are quietly circulating among cerealogists fearful of exposing the Emperor's new clothes. Svahn has visited the British circle sites several times over the past few years, and his observations are very interesting. He says: "MONEY has become the number one concern for many of the circle 'researchers'. Selling dubious books, postcards and other circle paraphernalia tend to be more important than investigating the real phenomenon (hopefully, there is one). "It is not very reassuring to note that speculations and wishful thinking are taking more and more space in books and magazines dealing with the crop circles. Instead, one would like to see more soberness and objectivity from the different groups involved." In a review of recent books, Svahn notes that all authors: "treat the phenomenon as if it was 100 percent genuine. Of course, they acknowledge the Bower and Chorley 'intermezzo', but [none] seem to realize that today there is no way to distinguish between 'real' circles and hoaxes ... While the research is getting out of hand, the researchers become more and more like New Age phophets ..." Svahn's article includes personal observations of circle sites, and commentaries about the actions of specific cerealogists. His most poignant comment is emphasized in the original: "Most researchers tend to hold on to their pet theories without taking others' criticisms seriously. During my visits to England - and from the few reports I have investigated here in Sweden - I HAVE BECOME MORE AND MORE DISAPPOINTED AND UNCERTAIN OF THERE BEING A REAL PHENOMENON BEHIND THE CIRCLES." Is he alone in his opinions? Definitely not. In a major British circlezine, the CROP WATCHER, editor Paul Fuller has a few biting comments about the current state of cerealogy. In CW #12 (July/Aug 1992), Paul writes: "Even the paranormally-inclined cerealogists have admitted that 1992 produced fakes galore, with few prepared to stick their necks out and claim that a single [NB!] British circle qualified as 'genuine'. In some ways, this restrained response could be construed as an over-reaction to last summer's hoax revelations, but in reality the awful truth has dawned on cerealogists everywhere - that most modern crop circles really are man-made hoaxes and that if there ever was a 'genuine' phenomenon in the first place it has now been utterly swamped by a smokescreen of wishful thinking and media-inspired mythology. Sad words indeed but a fact which most researchers now seem to be accepting with some reluctance." Paul notes that "leading cerealogists accept that they have lost the crop circle battle and that it is time to flee the sinking ship." He observes that some prominent cerealogists are emigrating to the USA, possibly for this reason. In fact, as obvious on a recent TV episode of Sightings, Colin Andrews is now based in Connecticut. As for the remaining "meteorologically-caused" circles, Terence Meaden, that theory's main proponent has now stated that: "Anything other than a simple circle is definitely a hoax", and he has now restricted the number of 'genuine circles' to "fewer than a dozen a year". Paul further notes: "It remains to be seen whether Meaden's meteorological theory can survive such trauma." Later in the issue, there appears a map of England, showing the locations of "Known Crop Circle (Groups of) Hoaxes". I can't reproduce it here, but to give readers a flavour for what's on it, the editor notes that "there are so many known hoaxers that we couldn't squeeze them all in!" Good old Doug and Dave, who got all the publicity, are on there wih their small number of formations. In North America, arch-skeptic Rob Day has publicly admitted he was responsible for some of the recent crop circles in Alberta. A farmhand who had used a garden tractor to make a UGM was caught by Roy Bauer and Grant Cameron here in Manitoba. At least one set of hoaxers has admitted to making some circles in the American Midwest. Given the proliferation of hoaxes and the obvious contamination of crop circle/UGM data, cerealogists had better take more care to ensure their investigations are truly objective and unbiased. Obviously, though, this caution is not confined to cerealogy. In no less a controversial subject as crash/retrievals, Barry Greenwood defends his publication JUST CAUSE in Number 33 (Sept.1992) of that zine: "Recently, we have received comments from several pro-UFO readers questioning the relevancy and value of what we have published in the last couple of years. We have apparently not been pro-ET enough ... We could very likely double our subscription rolls by reporting titillating stories of underground alien bases, of simple verbal accounts claiming knowledge of UFO technology, of what has become so very trendy now - alien/human SEX! Actually, it would not be enough to report such information - we would have to advocate it on a soapbox. Then, we would likely be invited onto numerous media programs to give the public what it craves - sensation. "As one UFO pundit told us recently, printing sensible information is not the road to fame and fortune. Trying to be balanced and careful seem to be undesireable traits to some. So be it. We exist to inform, not to put on a Wild-West show." Howdy, pardners. Are you cowpokes listening? Perhaps the most significant issue here is that all the comments reprinted here are from zines that are ostensibly "pro" as opposed to "skeptical" in the CSICOP sense. Despite repeated claims that ufology and cerealogy are running rampant without any peer review, there has always been a great deal of constructive and rational discussion within the Fortean community. It isn't as common as "Wild-West" shows, but it IS out there. I have always advocated an open and non-confrontational approach to discussions in the fields of so-called "pseudoscience". Very often, "balanced" forums or debates between skeptics and "believers" degrade into arguments on semantics or the nature of science. Innocent viewers/listeners/observers who are desperate for understandable information about UFOs only get more confused and turn back to traditional sources of information - the tabloid media. Throughout my 15 years of involvement in Fortean research, I have always tried to encourage discussion between the two camps of "believers" and "skeptics". Usually, I've failed. Normally, "believers" consider me to be a skeptic, while ardent skeptics think my fence-sitting makes me an irrationalist. I often comment that sitting on the fence can be very painful, not only from the pickets, but also because you get things thrown at you from both sides. The trouble is that, in my opinion, one cannot be truly impartial and objective unless meaningful dialogue is shared between opposing parties, and such dialogue should be solicited or precipitated whenever possible. I find it amazing that I am one of a few ufologists who reads the Skeptical Inquirer, and I am also one of the few skeptics who reads IUR and the MUFON Journal. Conferences are a sore point, too. I received an invitation to the second Las Vegas UFO Conference, featuring talks by Wendelle Stevens, Jaime Shandera and Stanton Friedman. At a cost of about $500 (CDN), I couldn't attend. CSICOP conferences are similar in format; both factions usually feature presentations of "the converted preaching to the converted". The two groups meet with cross-purposes, and no useful dialogue talks place. But can you imagine a joint CSICOP/MUFON meeting? I can't, either. If such a meeting were to take place, it would likely degenerate into a shouting match, and possibly a barroom brawl. The situation would be similar to a radio debate for which I was invited to be the spokesman for the "pro" side of UFOs, crop circles, etc. My opponent was a member of a regional skeptics' group (which had ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with CSICOP, of course). I was astounded at the vigour with which I was verbally attacked. I was taken aback when my opponent read from a transcript of a previous interview I had given, in order to show how irrationalists such as myself contradict ourselves at every opportunity. After listening intently, I pointed out that nothing in my statement was contradictory, and he grudgingly agreed, having been caught in his own trap. After all, I sometimes never contradict myself in the course of a discussion. The unfortunate part of the "debate" was that because there was a constant stream of offensive and defensive verbiage flowing, only three telephone calls from listeners were taken. Even the radio host admitted that he was completely confused by the semantic arguments. Listeners were wanting to get good information about sensational subjects, but were completely turned off by the presentation. How did I advocate the "pro" side? I didn't, deliberately. I had explained that I represented UFOROM and had been investigating UFOs and related phenomena for about 15 years. At no time did I claim that the aliens were here, raping our Streibers and stealing our children. I spoke from experience, describing facts without any deliberate interpretation. On crop circles, my opponent insisted they were all caused by hoaxers. I pointed out that that was a definite possibility, but we had only caught one hoaxer in Canada in three years. Furthermore, there still exists a possibility that winds can make SOME crop circles. I may not think much of Meaden's theory, but many scientists (defined variously) think it may have some merit. My opponent insisted that these were trivial arguments, and that his view was completely correct. The skeptical view is that since hoaxers are the most PROBABLE explanation, then that is the CORRECT explanation. My caution is that there are so many categories and kinds of UGMs, a blanket statement of any kind is improper. There ARE cases which are caused by hedgehogs, just as some are caused by hoaxers. ABDUCTIONS? A similar hassle would be created for an all-sides meeting to discuss UFO abductions. In one corner would be skeptics such as Robert Sheaffer and Philip Klass (author of "UFO Abductions - A Dangerous Game"). In the other corner would be researchers such as John Mack, David Gotlib and, of course, Budd Hopkins. Both sides would need to put their dukes up. The skeptical standpoint is that abductions do not take place, and the experiences are little more than dreams or hallucinations fueled by the popular media. The "pro" UFO standpoint, which is the one adopted by most UFO buffs and proclaimed at UFO conferences, is that the aliens are abducting us for nefarious or possibly benevolent reasons. But Mack and Gotlib are clinicians who are engaged in the treatment and counseling of individuals who appear to have had traumatic experiences that are represented by images of aliens. Thousands of such cases DO exist; this is not the issue. WHY people are reporting the experiences is the real issue. Imagination fueled by tabloid tales? Certainly some cases are, but even if this is so, there is still the problem of determining why such cases are multiplying. What is the mechanism responsible? Why would people unconsciously generate such experiences and hold to them so intensely? There is no other comparable experience in the history of psychology or sociology that has grabbed such a foothold in the public mind. So, the problem is NOT to determine if aliens are abducting humans, but rather to determine WHY the cases exist at all, and to understand the psychological/sociological mechanisms behind the stories, IF there is no physical or paraphysical cause. BOO! Fear-mongering. That's what discussions about cattle mutilations and satanism are said to be. I was accused of being a fear-mongerer for simply describing a meeting I had attended. Now, I really didn't want to get into this argument in the SGJ, but it's relevant to this discussion. In the course of my investigations into Fortean phenomena, I have been asked to look into a few mute cases here in Manitoba. None were extremely interesting. One carcass I examined near Teulon in 1977 was badly picked over by the time I got to the scene, and I never did get a chance to see the others. I have spoken to various veterinarians, and opinion seemed to vary. At the time, I heard a number of bizarre anecdotes, including one about a perfectly square patch of hide removed from a carcass found in Alberta in the 1970's. Jerry Clark of CUFOS recently wrote a relevant editorial for IUR which related his views on mutes. He pointed out that the link between UFOs and mutes was virtually non-existent, somewhat contradicting Linda Howe's stance. (Stigmatist Tom Adams also supports the UFO link). A popular book by Daniel Kagan, titled Mute Evidence, is often recommended by debunkers. Kagan spent some time talking with a number of vets and government officials, and came to the conclusion that mutes were a non-issue. Mute proponents, however, have pointed out that Kagan's credentials and expertise are somewhat dubious, implying he was not a credible authority and his conclusions were unjustified. In the mid-1970's, mute cases were popping up everywhere. Tommy Roy Blann (does anybody know where he is these days?) even prepared a confidential report for RCMP in Alberta, in which he provided them with background information for their investigations into Canadian cases. Tommy was pro-UFO, and the RCMP at the time were seriously considering the possibility that satanic cults were involved. In 1992, more mutes were reported in Alberta, but this time, newspaper accounts have the RCMP denying any satanic links. Recently, I had been invited to contact individuals in the employ of both civic and provincial family services, because of my involvement in local UFO cases. It seems that these individuals have encountered, in their opinions, clear cases of ritual or satanic abuse in the course of their work. They had heard of the alleged connection between child abuse and UFO abductions, and wanted my opinion. They explained that they had encountered "many cases" of ritual abuse, but that it was very difficult to gather enough evidence that would be accepable in a court of law. That is why, they suggested, debunkers' arguments that there has never been any proof of ritual abuse or satanic cult activity are technically correct, yet clinically false. The problem is that, by strict definitions of proof and falsifiability employed by debunkers in their analyses of unusual phenomena, sociological and psychological phenomena sometimes fall outside the definitions. It has been pointed out by other writers that Freudian psychology and stock market analyses both fail in tests of "scientific" definitions because they rely a great deal upon interpretation and subjective opinions on the part of researchers in those fields. So, in terms of "rigourous" proof, cases of ritual abuse may be factual according to social workers and criminologists, but are spurious and unsubstantiated to scientific objectivists. The day after I met with the individuals from family services and the social agencies, I was involved in a public debate on UFOs and related matters. Hence, when I was asked if satanic cults had anything to do with cattle mutilations, I replied that there might be some connection. I was immediately branded a "fearmonger" by my opponent, who obviously had never discussed the matter with social workers and who probably would never do so. In no way was I trying to scare the audience with gruesome tales of satanists killing cattle and drinking blood; I only replied to the question with information I had received the day before. It is quite true that many social caseworkers believe that ritual abuse exists in our society. Indeed, my cynical nature makes me fairly certain that "sick" people with an affinity for such activity live in our midst. The complexity of the issue is best described in a new book by David K. Sakheim and Susan E. Devine, titled: Out of Darkness - Exploring Satanism and Ritual Abuse (Lexington [MacMillan], 1992). Sakheim and Devine present a survey of various views on the subject, written by social workers, police, psychologists and victims. This is about as balanced of a work as I have ever seen. The various authors caution that the sensationalist version of rampant satanism is clearly fiction, but note that there is some evidence that ritualistic acts do occur in our society. The problem of finding "conclusive proof" is a major concern, and obviously parallels ufology in this regard. In fact, UFO abductions are mentioned several times in the the book, in the context of evidence for alleged child abuse and screen memories. Perhaps the most revealing chapter is about dealing with "nihilists" - those who deny that such phenomena exist at all. Indeed, the infamous SKEPTICAL INQUIRER article on the non-existence of satanism is examined and refuted. Another complication is the creation of a new skeptical group, called the False Memory Syndrome Association (3508 Market St., Suite 128, Philadelphia, PA 19104). The executive director of the group, Dr. Pamela Freyd, is sending reams of information to social workers involved in abuse cases, in an effort to stop proliferation of the acceptance of "remembered memories" such as child abuse, ritual abuse and, yes, UFO abductions. Freyd points out that in many cases where an adult "remembers" early abuse, investigation shows that no such events had ever occurred. Cynical case workers are quick to point out that the FMS group includes many people who have had work published by Prometheus Books, and are therefore CSICOP debunkers at heart. However, the FMS group's warnings should be heeded. The lesson is there, too, for researchers involved with UFO abductions. If debunkers wish to get into long diatribes with ritual abuse investigators, arguing about the existence of cultists, let them do so. It is beyond the abilities of most UFO/mute/trace investigators to properly deal with this subject. Rationally, it would seem that ufologists should remain apprised of the subject, but refer incidents to more appropriately-trained individuals. This material is clearly out of the league of most UFO buffs, and should stay there. INSOLUBLE MISERIES By now, many of you will have seen my appearance as a "U.F.O. Researcher" on the Unsolved Mysteries segment aired on November 4th, 1992. The segment concerned the strange story of Stefan Michalak, who claimed he was injured by an encounter with a saucer-shaped craft in May, 1967. Long ignored by most ufologists, the case may very well be one of the best on record. According to his story, Michalak was doing some amateur prospecting near the resort town of Falcon Lake, Manitoba, Canada, examining the many rock outcroppings for signs of quartz. The area is part of the Canadian Shield, quite rugged and covered with evergreens. Numerous lakes and swamps exist there, and the forests are protected by Federal and Provincial programs. Around noon, Michalak heard the sounds of agitated geese on a pond below his perch on a rocky plateau. He looked up to see two red cigar-shaped objects flying slowly through the sky. One descended toward him, and appeared to land about 150 feet away in a clearing. After it landed, it appeared to change colour from red to orange to silver, as it "cooled down". It was now a classic flying saucer, about 35-40 feet in diameter, with a dome on its upper surface. The other object in the sky flew away. Over the next hour, Michalak observed the object from a hiding spot behind a large rock formation. He sketched the object and puzzled over its nature. He couldn't see any markings on the side, and he didn't believe in "little green men" at the time. He concluded it was an experimental American aircraft which had landed for repairs. His theory seemed correct when he heard some high-pitched voices coming from the craft. A door opened in its side, and brilliant purple lights flooded out of the portal. He decided to sarcastically ask the Americans if they needed help fixing their ship, so he cautiously walked toward the vehicle and shouted his offer for assistance. The voices ceased abruptly. Edging closer, he reached the side of the craft and poked his head into the opening. He noticed that its walls were about eight inches thick, and had a honeycombed appearance. Inside the ship, he could see what he described as a myriad of small flashing lights, like those on a computer panel. Stepping back, he found that when he touched the side of the craft with his rubberized work glove, the glove had melted from intense heat. Suddenly, the door closed and the craft rotated counterclockwise. In front of him was some sort of "exhaust" grille. A blast of hot gas shot out of the grille, striking him in the chest and knocking him on his back. His shirt was set on fire, and he struggled to remove it. The craft quickly ascended and flew out of sight. As the Unsolved Mysteries segment showed, a dazed Michalak staggered back to civilization with his fantastic story. The story of the investigation is itself a fantastic tale. Michalak was beleaguered by reporters, UFO buffs, loonies and other characters all wanting the REAL story or to give him their own advice on how to deal with the aliens. Much has been published about the Michalak case, some of it inaccurate and contrived. An excellent series of articles had appeared in Canadian UFO Report in the late 1960's and early 1970's, but it did not receive much attention outside of Canada. After I had reopened the case files in the late 1970's, I wrote a series of articles about it for FLYING SAUCER REVIEW, whose editors were astounded that a full report on the case had never seen international print before. Yet, I have found the Michalak case recounted in various versions in many books and zines, often repeating claims of radiation sickness and alien death rays. I had re-opened the case because the original team of investigators had broken up, and the case files were unavailable. I re-interviewed Michalak and his family, and tracked down several hundred pages of government documents about the case. Dr. Berthold Schwarz was invaluable in his assistance in tracking down much of the information, especially the medical reports. The case had been investigated by the RCMP, RCAF, USAF and Edward Condon's Colorado UFO Project (which listed it as "Case 22": unexplained). The incident had been debated several times in the Canadian House of Commons because the public wanted to know what the government had learned about the injury to a Canadian citizen. An official announcement was made that the files would never be made public because of a danger to "the public interest". This, of course, fueled the belief that the craft had been an alien spaceship. The government was obviously covering up the affair, and the whole thing smacked of conspiracy. It didn't help when a UFO buff asked the Mayo Clinic for Michalak's medical records, and the response was that Michalak had never been there. Of course, Michalak had the bills to prove his stay there had been real. Another often-repeated story is that Michalak had some sort of radiation sickness or had radiation burns. This isn't supported by the medical reports. If the pattern of burns on his abdomen was caused by radiation, he would have had many other symptoms of this. The pattern was considered by dermatologists to have been caused by chemicals, more like an actual exhaust such as Michalak had described. Another story in circulation (particularly in the four-volume set of UFO books by Yves Naud) is that Michalak was suffereing from impurities in his blood, brought on by the UFO's radiative effects. Again, this is not supported by the medical evidence. In fact, it is often repeated that Michalak lost a great deal of weight and that his lymphocyte count was reduced, more symptoms of radiation poisoning. The trouble is that Michalak had not been to a doctor for many months before his experience, and there were no records of his pre-experience weight or blood count available for comparison. Michalak believed that he had lost weight the same way we all think we might have lost weight - he guessed and looked at his own bathroom scale. Considering he had severe nausea and vomiting, this wouldn't be too unusual. As a matter of fact, this is more evidence in support of his having ingested a chemical mixture of gases. Still, we're left with a curious case. Physiological and physical effects, an unchanging story over 25 years, and yet there are no definite answers to what happened to Michalak at Falcon Lake in 1967. If it was a hoax (and psychological testing suggests that Michalak didn't do it), then it is certainly one of the best on record. Why would a hoaxer physically harm himself and put up with 25 years of ridicule by making up a saucer story? Publicity? No. The Michalaks shy away from publicity. Money? No. The Michalaks haven't made a bankroll from the experience, as some might claim. Notoriety? No. In fact, the Michalaks have threatened to take action against some people mentioning the case in public because they just want to be left alone. ROUND AND ROUND AND ROUND IN THE CIRCLE GAME As mentioned earlier, Paul Fuller's recent editorial in the CROP WATCHER included a very cynical survey of British cereaology, pointing out that the "experts" were backpedalling on how many of their "real" formations had been created by hoaxers. During the preparation of this issue of the SGJ, another issue of the CROP WATCHER was received, with even more goodies. Issue 13 of the CROP WATCHER (3 Selbourne Court, Tavistock Close, ROMSEY, Hampshire SO51 7TY) includes another editorial in which Paul shows that vortex theorists now tend to believe that Doug and Dave were responsible for most of the early British circles during 1978 and 1991, as they had claimed. Furthermore, Doug and Dave are publishing a book about their hoaxing career, which will show in no uncertain terms how silly the crop circle "experts" have been. Paul laments: "Sadly, our attempts to uncover the truth simply met with insults and riducule by some of the other people who have since made six-figure sums of money by promoting themselves and Doug and Daves' hoaxes ... It is sad to see [ufology and cereaology] desecrated by a small group of stubborn, deceitful people who refused to listen to BUFORA's findings and who instead went out of their way to suppress evidence for more mundane explanations ... UFOlogy's name will be dragged through the mud yet again because these stupid, egotistical idiots decided that it didn't really matter what created the circles as long as they were the researchers most closely associated with the phenomenon by the public." And those are his kinder remarks. A few pages later, Paul reviews Pat Delgado's latest crop circle book: CROP CIRCLES - CONCLUSIVE EVIDENCE?. In his review, Paul notes instance after instance of Delgado's hyping of a formation as "real", when it had been shown to be a hoax by other researchers. Even the non-existence of the infamous Highland, Kansas, formation in 1991, (claimed by Linda Howe to have been covered up by the military), and long since shown to have never existed, is ignored by Delgado, who apparently includes it as a "real" site. In short, the issue is chock full of revelations about crop circle hoaxing, while at the same time Paul lauds the meteorological vortex hypothesis. [Sorry, Paul, I don't see the evidence for vortex-created circles to be any more solid than the evidence for alien-created circles.] But the commentary and discussion of cerealogists caught with their pants down makes the zine a must-read. Ufologists and cerealogists should pay heed to this zine in order to get accurate info on what is really occurring in the field (pun). And debunkers - get this zine because it deals with the issue and does your work for you much better than the minimal and trivial coverage in the SKEPTICAL INQUIRER. Further note: Paul notes that BUFORA was the lone voice in the wilderness, warning cerealogists not to get carried away with the circle scene in the late 1980's. UFOROM had advocated a rational approach to this, too, as soon as the hype started up. But who listens to us Canadians, anyway? UBI EST DATUM? Despite pleas for information about North American circles in 1992, NAICCR has not received much case data from researchers. The NAICCR preliminary reports have been posted several times, but very little information from other researchers has been received. For those who have sent me data: thank you, your contributions are gratefully credited. Despite rumours that some cerealogy "experts" are becoming more and more "proprietary", we hope that information exchange will be ongiong, unlike the British experience. Since I have been receiving a number of requests, here is the latest NAICCR preliminary list of rumoured or known North American UGMs and crop circles. ======================================================================= 1992 North American UGM List, November 1992 920426 Jonesboro, Georgia - a "formation" of crop circles, "exactly" like those found in 1991 in the same location, was discovered. No other data given. Source: Rosemary Ellen Guiley; Vance Tiede 9204?? , New Hampshire - UGMs were found following a small local flap of UFO reports. Source: Rosemary Ellen Guiley; Vance Tiede 920506 near Edmonton, Alberta - a "space cookie" UGM was discovered in a meadow. It is a perfect circle, 6 metres in diameter. Its depth varies from 5 cm to 31 cm. Grass is growing straight up both inside and outside the circle. No tracks were found leading to the area. The UGM is not a sinkhole. Source: Gordon Kijek 920525 Limerick, Pennsylvania - at least 12 "matted down" areas were found in a wheatfield north of Philadelphia. Three were circles about five feet in diameter, arranged in a triangle. One feature was "T-shaped". Soil samples taken by a UFO investigator "showed no irregularities". Geiger counter readings were also normal. Although a hoax was suspected by the UFO investigator, the owner of the field believes that the UGMs were caused by lodging, wind and fertilizer damage, and that "It happens every year". Source: Steve Bernheisel on FIDONET; UFO Newsclipping Service #275 920627 Raeford, North Carolina - a circle of flattened grass was found in a hay field following a CE2 UFO sighting. A loud noise, "like a freight train", was heard, and two witnesses ran to look out their front door. A object "the size of a swimming pool", "like orange windows lla around it", was in a field about 300 feet away from their house. When they went to call other witnesses, the object disappeared. Source: Patrick Kirol on FIDONET 9206?? , Massachusetts - a small area of flattened cattails was found in a marsh close to a major highway and reported as a crop circle. Source: Tom Randolph on DEC COM via INTERNET 920701 St. Adolphe, Manitoba - nine "horseshoe-shaped" patches of flattened grass were found on either side of a brook in a Winnipeg suburb. Because of recent storms and heavy rainfall, lodging was thought to be the cause. Source: Guy Westcott; NAICCR 920705 Hobbema, Alberta - two ovals of flattened barley were found in a field after unusual lights were observed descending to the ground. The largest UGM has a major axis of 47 feet. The crop is pushed away uniformly from the centers of the patches, but the centers are "clumped", like breaking waves. Barley inside the circles is "white", and devoid of colour. It was later suggested that the areas were due to spilled seeds and fertilizer, combined with lodging. Source: Gord Kijek 920715 St. Adolphe, Manitoba - a field beside a highway was discovered to have numerous patches of flattened crop, in irregular patterns. The formations were discovered by the same person who found case 920701. Investigation by NAICCR and interviews with the owner of the field established that the crop had been laid down by strong winds and heavy rain. The person who discovered the formations was convinced that aliens created the flattened patches. Source: NAICCR 920721 Friedensruh, Manitoba - a farmer found a triangular area of flattened/swirled grass which was surrounded by an electric fence. The dimensions were 31x27x17 feet. Local residents could not explain the phenomenon. However, NAICCR investigators found evidence that animals had trampled the site. Source: NAICCR 920799 Pilot Peak, California - according to the Phoenix Project, a number of "landing zones" were discovered near the site of an alleged underground alien base. Visits to the site by independent invesyigators have found only patches of grass trampled by deer and other animals. Two "landing zones" were claimed. Source: John Pickens on INTERNET via Paranet 920799 Miniota, Manitoba - it was reported that a crop circle was discovered in a field of oats. The circle is perfectly round and 32 feet in diameter. The oats are flattened and swirled in a clockwise fashion. The center of the circle is devoid of vegetation. Source: NAICCR 920801 Strathclair, Manitoba - a circle of flattened wheat was discovered in a field southwest of Strathclair. It was 28 feet in diameter. The wheat was flattened and swirled in a counterclockwise fashion. Source: NAICCR 920808 Strathclair, Manitoba - a flattened area of wheat in the shape of the symbol for Mars (a circle with an attached arrow pointing away from it) was discovered in a field southwest of Strathclair. The main circle was 28 feet in diameter, with no detectable eccentricity. The wheat was flattened counterclockwise. In the arrow, the wheat was flattened away from the circle. The arrow pointed on a bearing of 260 degrees. Source: NAICCR 920815 Ipswich, Manitoba - a flattened area of wheat in the shape of the symbol for Mars was discovered just east of Ipswich. The main circle was elliptical, with axes 26 and 24.5 feet. The wheat was flattened counterclockwise. The arrow pointed on a bearing of 65 degrees. A UFO was seen hovering over the site the night before the UGM was discovered. Source: NAICCR 920815 Strathclair, Manitoba - a flattened area of wheat was found near other crop circle UGMs. It was roughly 20 feet in diameter. Wheat was laid down in random clumps. Examination suggested the area was caused by lodging. Source: NAICCR 920815 Strathclair, Manitoba - a flattened area of wheat in the shape of the symbol for Mars was discovered west of Strathclair. The main circle was 24 feet in diameter. The wheat was flattened in a counterclockwise fashion. The arrow pointed on a bearing of 120 degrees. Source: NAICCR 920815 Estevan, Saskatchewan - two circles were found, sharing a tangent. Each diameter was 12 feet. A small path led from the tangent to a very small circle, within which was a "squashed porcupine". Source: Chad Deetken 920815 Kyle, Saskatchewan - a flattened ring was found, 12 feet in diameter with a core of standing wheat, 3.5 feet in diameter. In the center were "porcupine droppings". Source: Chad Deetken 920817 Brandon, Manitoba - a television station received an anonymous call that a crop circle had been found on the property of the Brandon airport. Explained easily as a parachuting target. Source: CKX-TV; Jeff Harland; NAICCR 920825 Guy, Alberta - fifteen circular marks were found in a field near Peace River, Alberta. Investigated by Gord Kijek of AUFOSG. Source: AUFOSG 920820 Milestone, Saskatchewan - a triplet of crop circles, touching each other in a line, were discovered in a wheat field. The dimensions of the affected area were 63x22 feet. All were swirled counterclockwise. A "squashed porcupine" was found inside the formation. Investigated by Chad Deetken. 9208?? Champagne, Illinois - crop formations were found. No other info. Source: NACCCS 920??? , Iowa - a number of "ice circles" were reported discovered. Investigated by Davina Riska? No other data. Source: Rosemary Ellen Guiley, NACCCS 920??? Troy, Illinois - circles were reported found in cattails. Discovered by Peter (Darren?) Bistrom (?). Reported to MUFON (?). Investigated at least two months after their discovery by George Wingfield. Source: Rosemary Ellen Guiley, NACCCS 920923 Albertville, Saskatchewan - a circle with a ring was discovered in an oat field. The ring was 35 feet in diameter, and the circle was about 16 feet in diameter. It was swirled counterclockwise, but the ceter of the swirl was off-center. The ring had a varying width of 15 to 27 inches. Source: Chad Deetken 920924 Albertville, Saskatchewan - a second circle with a ring was discovered in a wheatfield. Ring diameter: 22 feet; circle: 13 feet. Ring width: 8 inches. All were swirled counterclockwise. Source: Chad Deetken 920923 Melita, Manitoba - two circles were found in a wheat field, only a few feet apart. Reported to NAICCR. Investigated by Jeff Harland. 920930? Orillia, Ontario - one large oval patch of flattened corn was found in a field near Orillia. The area was 75 by 100 feet, on the south slope of a south-facing hill, only about 100 feet from a major highway. The corn was flattened and swirled in a counterclockwise direction. Reported to NAICCR. Source: Colin McKim. 921002 Nipawin, Saskatchewan - three circles were found in a wheatfield, spaced irregularly. All had diameters of about 8 feet and were swirled counterclockwise. Source: Chad Deetken ===================================================================== Are there others? Let us know. Zines received: IUR (International UFO Reporter), Vol. 17, #4,5 ARCTURUS BOOK CATALOG (1442 Port St. Lucie Blvd., Port St. Lucie, FL 34952), 1992, #10,11; GEO-MONITOR (Vince Migliore, 65 Washington St., Suite 400, Santa Clara, CA 95050), Vol. 2, #9,10,11; WINNICENTRICS (RASC Winnipeg Centre, 110 St. Paul's College, 930 Dysart Rd, University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada R3T 2M6), V. 50, #5,6; AFU NEWSLETTER (Box 11027, S-600 11 Norrkoping, Sweden), 1991; JUST CAUSE (Fawcett, Box 218, Coventry, CT 06238); MUFON JOURNAL (103 Oldtowne Road, Seguin TX 87155-4099), #293,294; UFO PARADOX (Eric Aggen, Jr., Box 12245, Parkville MO 64152; CROP WATCHER (Paul Fuller), #12,13; ORBITER (Box 652, Reading, MA 01867), #36; and a slough of others, including Jenny Randles' NORTHERN UFO NEWS, Jim Moseley's SAUCER SMEAR and HORIZON. Sorry, I don't have other addresses handy. WaHF: Leanne Boyd, Paul Fuller, Mike Strainic, Christian Page, Angela Mather, Peter Warren, Bob Girard, Chuck Muschweck (why, I don't know), Bill Bell, Pat Vince, Shannon McGinn, Melissa Craig, Steve Canada, Paul (the mad photocopyist) Cuttle [thx for all the stuff!], Linda Howe (or at least her form letter), Eric Herr (no, Eric, I don't have info on those cases you inquired about), Matteo Leone, Mary Ann Martini (the Pavarotti tapes were great! Thx!), Gord (best and most underrated ufologist in North America) Kijek, Mac Davidson (who wants to become a ufologist when he grows up), Vince Migliore, Greg Kennedy, France St-Laurent, Darren Hartigan, Janet Bord (UFO pix galore), Gary (best underrated Fortean writer in Britain) Lanham, Ed Wilson (yes, Ed, I will speak at the WoldCon in 1994), Lorne Goldfader (master of the fax machine), and Mrs. Victor Wilson. I want to make a special effort to emphasize that my review in the last SGJ of Jerry Clark's UFO Encyclopedia was meant to be very positive, and not negative as some had interpreted. An especially big hello to virtual correspondents Pamela Thompson and dAvid tHacker. Thanks also are due to Roy Bauer, Grant Cameron, Greg Kennedy, Vladimir Simosko - and Myra! If I have left anyone out, I'm sorry! I can only dig through my "IN" basket just SO far! Best "classic" letter received: "Gentlemen: We are on the verge of organizing the Philippines' first UFO Watch, an organization that will dedicate its knowledge and interest in ufology. In this respect, would you know the equipment used in tracking down incoming and landings as well as being able to pinpoint the presence of an alien ship? Also, can we represent your organization in the Philippines? We hope to hear from you soonest possible. Sincerely, Hernan Ramirez de Cartagena" ====================================================================== The Swamp Gas Journal is copyright (c) 1992 by Chris A. Rutkowski. Mail correspondence to: Box 1918, Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada R3C 3R2 Email correspondence to: rutkows@ccu.umanitoba.ca The Swamp Gas Journal, UFOROM and NAICCR are not affiliated with the University of Manitoba, and don't represent its ideas, opinions, etc. (Standard disclaimer) -- Chris Rutkowski - rutkows@ccu.umanitoba.ca Royal Astronomical Society of Canada University of Manitoba - Winnipeg, Canada Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12955 alt.alien.visitors:11388 sci.skeptic:34874 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!caen!uunet!psinntp!wrldlnk!usenet From: "James F. Tims" Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day In-Reply-To: <70292@cup.portal.com> Message-ID: <2931882216.1.p00168@psilink.com> Sender: usenet@worldlink.com Nntp-Posting-Host: 127.0.0.1 Organization: Semper Excelsior Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1992 15:55:53 GMT X-Mailer: PSILink (3.2) Lines: 15 God, I wish I could kill this thread. Unluckily, I'm no longer a UNIX honcho and I have to download everything in this newsgroup to my PC. Thanks for wasting my time and money with 5 consecutive content-free posts, John. Try leaving out the details of your upcoming schedule. Just stick to the REPORTS of your recent OBEs. Try "OBE.2001 - blah blah blah.", instead of "Tomorrow we are having an OBE." followed by "OBE-2002". Get it? If you have an OBE, let us know. Just don't bother us with the net equivalent of "I'm going to defecate tomorrow, like to come watch?" -jim Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!news.claremont.edu!nntp-server.caltech.edu!magney From: kanga.caltech.edu!magney (Michael Agney) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Alien Ships. Date: 27 Nov 1992 01:30:25 GMT Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena Lines: 33 Message-ID: <1f3tnhINN34l@gap.caltech.edu> References: <1992Nov26.200619.1902@dct.ac.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: piglet.caltech.edu Originator: magney@piglet In article <1992Nov26.200619.1902@dct.ac.uk> mcsdc1al@dct.ac.uk writes: > In article <1992Nov26.031734.6608@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>, mporter@nyx.cs.du.edu (Mitchell Porter) writes: > > mcsdc1al@dct.ac.uk writes: > >>While I would have to question the Aldeberon thing, there can be little > doubt > > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^! > THERE IS NO DOUBT. > >>that the pyramids in Egypt, along with The Nazca Pl > ains, are evidence of the > >>existence of extraterrestrial life. > > Not to mention the Great Wall of China, the Golden Gate Bridge, Ayers Rock, > > Disneyland, Stonehenge, Hyde Park and the Dallas School Book Depository. > > I'll tell you one thing, your posting certainly doesn't prove the existence of > intelligent life. And yours comes close to actively disproving it. I see no reason why the Pyramids or the Nazca lines could not have been made solely by human beings, nor do I see any reason why their construc- tion has to be motivated by aliens. If you have something to say about those things, please do email me. -- | Michael Agney | Yd - gender neutral pronoun | | | (well, not quite) | | | Source: Stories by Alison | | magney@cco.caltech.edu | Tellure, back issues of Analog | Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12956 alt.alien.visitors:11390 sci.skeptic:34875 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!paladin.american.edu!news.univie.ac.at!hp4at!mcsun!ieunet!ccvax.ucd.ie!h234_056 From: h234_056@ccvax.ucd.ie Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Astral 1. Message-ID: <1992Nov20.154304.49928@ccvax.ucd.ie> Date: 20 Nov 92 15:43:04 GMT References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <69613@cup.portal.com> Organization: University College Dublin Lines: 53 In article <69613@cup.portal.com>, John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: > Subject: Astral Projection. > I have had some requests to explain how astral projection is done so here > goes; Well now that we've got this far you should be able to do, !. Send > and receive thoughts. 2. Seal the aura (we haven't covered that one yet) and > 3. Call a flying saucer. If you haven't accomplished these things yet it > may take a while, say 10 or 20 years. Some people are born with these > abilities and can do them without being taught, other people can do them > with a little bit of instruction, others take quite a while to learn and > the last type of people are for sure they'll never learn and they usually > are right. > Your usually accomplish what you put your mind to do. Lately there has been > a lot of information about out of the body experiences. That is where you > are being operated on and while under anesthesia, are able to leave their > physical body and float up to the ceiling, looking back on your body while > the operation is being done. After the anesthesia dies off then you return > to your body. fter you return to your body and wake up in your physical > body you are able to tell everybody what was going on during the operation > even though you had your eyes closed. > In other cases people lay down to sleep and just before going to sleep leave > their physical body and float into the other room and see things, then > return. > Part of my training was to learn how to do astral projetion. To do this you > relax in a chair, or bed or in the lotus posture, if your studying Yoga. > Then let yourself go into sort of a trance. You let you astral or spiritual > body (your mind)leave your body and go to anywhere you might want to go. > Your astral body is connected to your physical body by what is called the > silver cord. Its sort of a thin piece of nearly invisible material that > stretches out between your physical body and your astral body. This all is > just a way of explaining it and it can be seen by a person with clairvoyant > vision. One of my teachers could go all the way to Venus by astral > projection. > Some people say that you should be careful that no one moves you while your > on an astral journey because it will kill you if they break the silver cord > but I've never been killed yet. I just wake up if someone shakes me. Some > people say you should have a teacher or Guru to accompany you on your trips > but I could never seem to get all that organized so I just went anyway. > After you get so far in all this business you'll find that the only real > Guru is your higher self and if you can understand that little statement > your pretty far advanced anyway. > When you first start all of this its nomal to have what is calld a snap > back. That is when you just leave your body and are going pretty good, then > realize what your doing, get afraid and you mind will snap back into your > body. Sometimes your astral body comes back into you physical body and > doesn't get aligned just right and you won't feel exactly right (sort of a > headache). All you have to do in a case like that is to go back into a > regular sleep for at least 5 minutes and you'll be feeling OK. > End Part 1. > John Winston. HOW DO YOU GO ABOUT MEETING A GURU, OR SOMEONE TO HELP YOU WITH ASTRAL PROJECTION ?? Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12957 alt.alien.visitors:11391 alt.religion.kibology:4895 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology Subject: Re: Bigfootf spaceman? Message-ID: <70364@cup.portal.com> Date: Thu, 26 Nov 92 18:40:57 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) Distribution: world References: <67397@cup.portal.com> Lines: 49 Subject: Dinosaurs Now. There is a subject that I have been reading about lately that I have not made any conclusion on at the present time and that is whether or not some dinoasaurs exist today. One has to be very careful in a study like this because some people think that they know something and if you come up with something that is different than what they believe then they will really give you a hard time. My friend Robert Stanley said that he checked with a group that had been investigating dinosaurs and when they didn't find what they were looking for they just made a scale model of the dinosaur and had a native swim inside the device as it came across the river and they photographed. In other words they couldn't find it so they photographed it anyway. So here we go on the first bit of information; African scientists claim they recently captured a live dinosaur. The 30-foot plant-eating reptile has a long neck and tail, and a body that size of a small elephant. The dinosaur's feet are shaped like dinner plates. The team of scientists who found the monster, whose origins on this planet date back some 65 million years, spent close to three years tracking the remarkable throwback, called Mokele-Mbembe by natives of Zaire. The researchers used modern video cameras, sonar devices, and old fashioned nets to track the dinosaur. They followed trails discoverd by natives of this equatorial African nation. these trails apparently were left by Mokele-Mbembe as it wandered through swamps and undergrowth. Dr. Frederich Manning, one of the explores, says sighting are recorded as far back as 1910. No specimen has been capatured before this one, however. To bring the dinosaur back alive, scientists disabled it with a tranquilizer gun, then placed it in a cage. It was transported this way out of the depths of the jungle to a special animal preserve. There the dinosaur was freed, but scientists keep it under constant video surveilance. This is possibly the most thrilling discovery of the century (they always say that in these articles JW.). Dinosaurs were believed to have been exstinct for millions of years, but now we have one in captivity. The scientist says he has not yet determined whether the dinosaur is male or female. It does not appear to be lonely, so we are assuming it does not have a mate, We have sent teams back to the area where this one was captured to try to track down another so we can breed them, but so far we have not found even a fresh set of footprints. Tissue samples of the giant reptile have been analyzed by researhers who say the dinosaur is approximately 100 years old. It has adapted very well to the animal reserve. It stays away from other animals, and seems perfectly content to hide in the bushes or roll in the mud during the heat of the day. At night, it looks for green leaves and fruit to eat. So there you have it folks. Is it true or false? John Winston. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12958 alt.alien.visitors:11392 sci.skeptic:34879 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: <70365@cup.portal.com> Date: Thu, 26 Nov 92 19:05:10 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> Lines: 3 Dear People: Today was Thankgiving. I had a great day and hope you did too. John Winston. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12959 alt.alien.visitors:11393 sci.skeptic:34881 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!sun-barr!olivea!uunet!virgin!unhtel!morwyn!forrie From: forrie@morwyn.uucp (Forrest Aldrich) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: <1992Nov26.205118.13723@morwyn.uucp> Date: 26 Nov 92 20:51:18 GMT References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <70347@cup.portal.com> Reply-To: morwyn.uucp!forrie@unhtel.unh.edu (Forrest Aldrich - SysAdmin) Organization: Vision Graphics Dover, NH USA Lines: 48 From article <70347@cup.portal.com>, John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com has written: [ ridiculous story, omitted ] +-------------------- | Once she looked around our living room and said, "What a dump, " just like | that line from the Bette Davis movie. She likes to play dress up and wear +-------------------- Er, isn't that line from "Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolfe", starring none other than Elizabeth Taylor?? +-------------------- | Bette Davis' eyes. They are enormous and they protrude slightly and she | uses them very | day she will be just as famous. +-------------------- They protrude because she's probably filling her pants; elegantly, like Bette did when she was a baby, too! +-------------------- | This is your truly, (J W) speaking now. What do you think? | John Winston. +-------------------- I think you've flipped your wig, John... a long time ago. That Thorazine isn't working. What in HELL does this nonsense have to do with UFOs and alien visitors? Absolutely NOTHING. The same thing goes for half the crazy anecdotal stuff you post here. Get with the program! There are a lot of us who are really interested in this subject, and do NOT benefit AT ALL from your stories. Please, John... it's time to quit. If you insist on posting this (IMHO) garabge, you need to find an appropriate group to fit the subject. This must cease. Enough is enough. Can someone tell me how to use a 'kill' file? I've never really had such a need up until this point. Forrest -- ----------- Forrest Aldrich ----------- ------- morwyn!forrie@unhtel.unh.edu ------- ---- ---- -- VISION GRAPHICS -- Dover, NH - USA -- ------------------------------------------------------ Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12960 alt.alien.visitors:11394 sci.skeptic:34884 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!ames!data.nas.nasa.gov!taligent!apple!netcomsv!netcom.com!jeffp From: A Freind Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Alien Ships. Keywords: Pyramids Message-ID: <1992Nov27.034952.12969@netcom.com> Date: 27 Nov 92 03:49:52 GMT References: <1992Nov25.192638.16482@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu> <1992Nov26.111000.23147@ntb.ch> Sender: jeffp@netcom.com (Jeff) Organization: BeHereNow Lines: 23 In article <1992Nov26.111000.23147@ntb.ch> milsom@ntb.ch (Paul Milsom) writes: > >The pyramids were not built by slaves, but by paid workers. The construction >is well documented and understood. No aliens are mentioned. > Paul. > I have read extensivley, and been to the Great Pyramid, and I would have to concure with Paul on this one. It's always possible that Kufu put his initails on it later, to make it look like his own, and the Sphynx is very likely much older than anyone ever previously guessed (and they are guesses by the way...), but I do agree that it is likely the workers were much better motivated than pure slavery can or normally would provide. Good evidence that the workers were well paid is available. Aliens could be involved on many subtle levels, regardless of any lack of physical evidence; but purely the ideas held within, and surrounding the design itself. Was it ever a tomb? That is the biggest question for me. It has everything to do with "Why was the pyramid built, if not for a tomb". And from the above concept we glean basic essoteric mystery of the pyramid, and all the related concepts relative to the secrets held in it's design and construction. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!ucla-cs!lanai.cs.ucla.edu!pierce From: pierce@lanai.cs.ucla.edu (Brad Pierce) Subject: Re: UFOs & Jimmy Carter Message-ID: <1992Nov27.051615.9629@cs.ucla.edu> Followup-To: alt.conspiracy,sci.skeptic,alt.alien.visitors Sender: usenet@cs.ucla.edu (Mr Usenet) Nntp-Posting-Host: lanai.cs.ucla.edu Organization: UCLA, Computer Science Department References: <1992Nov27.012349.9434@augean.eleceng.adelaide.edu.AU> Date: Fri, 27 Nov 92 05:16:15 GMT Lines: 10 In article <1992Nov27.012349.9434@augean.eleceng.adelaide.edu.AU> dabbott@augean.eleceng.adelaide.edu.AU (Derek Abbott) writes: |In one of Carter's election campaign speeches he said that he's seen a UFO |and that if he gets elected to become prez he'll make public all the govt |files on UFOs. |What ever became of this election promise? Did anything happen? Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uunet.ca!hombas!joseph.daniels From: joseph.daniels@homebase.com (Joseph Daniels) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: CONTACT NOTES Message-ID: <1968.479.uupcb@homebase.com> Date: 27 Nov 92 01:11:00 GMT Distribution: world Organization: Home Base BBS - St. Thomas, Ontario - 519-633-7253 Reply-To: joseph.daniels@homebase.com (Joseph Daniels) Lines: 34 From: joseph.daniels@homebase.com To: dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) DA|Just a word of advice - UMMO is largely held to be a hoax of some |magnitude. I suggest you read "Revelation" by Jacques Vallee, for |starters. `------------------------------------------------------------------ I just finished that book yesterday. His theories and hoaxes are harder to believe than the stories reported. For those of you that have NOT read the book, Vallee believes that most UFO reports are true actual physical events, but that they are "staged" by the various intelligence groups around the world to cover up other activities. For example if the economy is bad, then stage a huge UFO hoax to take people's attention off the recession. I have to say that I think the guy is caught between a rock and a hard place, because he admits time and time again in his book that these UFO happenings are "real" because he has researched them himself. He's seen the evidence and talked first hand to the witnesses, but on the other-hand he does not want to admit that there are any Aliens, so he's trying to sell this half-baked theory about the sightings and abductions as actual physical events that are staged by covert government agencies. It sounds convincing in the book but when you stand-back and think about it then it's quite absurd. Why didn't the US send a UFO to abduct Saddam Hussein instead of all those troops? Why didn't Bush have Clinton abdcuted by Aliens and told too drop out of the Presidential race? Why don't we send a UFO to Somalia with food? --- . SLMR 2.1a . InfoNet London (519)649-1453 Hit ^C and enter HELP at $ Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uunet.ca!hombas!joseph.daniels From: joseph.daniels@homebase.com (Joseph Daniels) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: OPERATION MAJESTIC-12 PRELIMINARY BRIEFING FOR Message-ID: <1969.479.uupcb@homebase.com> Date: 27 Nov 92 01:17:00 GMT Distribution: world Organization: Home Base BBS - St. Thomas, Ontario - 519-633-7253 Reply-To: joseph.daniels@homebase.com (Joseph Daniels) Lines: 146 From: Joseph.Daniels#homebase.com To: cc203@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (David R. Stepien) DRS| OPERATION RIGHT TO KNOW DRS|Documented Evidence of the reality of UFOs is overwhelming, including evide |the U.S. military retrieved a crashed flying saucer in New Mexico in 1947. |Government's policy of withholding and confusing the facts of extraterrestr |contact is WRONG and MUST END. `-------------------------------------------------------------------------- For those of you that are not aware of any government documents I have supplied a copy of one of the first...Enjoy! THE MJ-12 Document The MJ-12 (Majestic 12) Documents are Classified US Government Documents that have surfaced and have been verified by various experts to be authentic. Original criticism arose over small typing errors. It was discovered that top secret government typists are trained to insert small tying errors into each copy of a top secret document. By keeping a record of these "errors" a leaked document can be traced by it's errors to the original person who recieved it. Although all marks, letterhead, stamps etc. appear authentic the current controversy is over the format of the date. However other government documents from the same period show the same date format have aparently been found. The document is a breifing for the the president of the USA, Dwight Eisenhower. It describes a crashed flying saucer and dead aliens that were recovered in 1947. This is not the original document, but my best effort to dupicate it on my own word processor. - Joseph Daniels (UFO Joe) .pa TOP SECRET/MAJIC EYES ONLY NATIONAL SECURITY INFORMATION ************** * TOP SECRET * ************** EYES ONLY COPY ONE OF ONE BRIEFING DOCUMENT: OPERATION MAJESTIC 12 PREPARED FOR PRESIDENT-ELECT DWIGHT D. EISENHOWER: (EYES ONLY) 18 NOVEMBER, 1952 WARNING: This is a TOP SECRET - EYES ONLY document containing compartmentalized information essential to the national security of the United States. EYES ONLY ACCESS to the material herein is strictly limited to those possessing Majestic-12 clearance level. Reproduction in any form or the taking of written or mechanically transcribed notes is strictly forbidden. ************** * TOP SECRET * ************** T52-EXEMPT (E) .pa TOP SECRET/MAJIC EYES ONLY ************** * TOP SECRET * ************** EYES ONLY COPY ONE OF ONE PRESIDENT-ELECT EISENHOWER. DOCUMENT PREPARED 18 NOVEMBER, 1952. BRIEFING OFFICER: ADM. ROSCOE H. HILLENKOETTER (MJ-1) NOTE: This document has been prepared as a preliminary briefing only. It should be regarded as introductory to a full operations briefing intended to follow. * * * * * * OPERATION MAJESTIC-12 is a TOP SECRET Research and Development/ Intelligence operation responsible directly and only to the President of the United States. Operations of the project are carried out under control of the Majestic-12 (Majic-12) Group which was established by special classified executive order of President Truman on 24 September, 1947, upon recommendation by Dr. Vannevar Bush and Secretary James Forrestal. (See Attachment "A".) Members of the Majestic-12 Group were designated as follows: Adm. Roscoe H. Hillenkoetter Dr. Vannevar Bush Secy. James V. Forrestal* Gen. Nathan F. Twining Gen. Hoyt S. Vandenberg Dr. Detlev Bronk Dr. Jerome Hunsaker Mr. Sidney W. Souers Mr. Gordon Gray Dr. Donald Manzel Gen. Robert M. Montague Dr. Lloyd V. Berkner The death of Secretary Forrestal on 22 May, 1949, created a vacancy which remained unfilled until 01 August, 1950, upon which date Gen. Walter B. Smith was designated as permanent replacement. .PA ************** * TOP SECRET * ************** EYES ONLY COPY ONE OF ONE On 24 June, 1947, a civilian pilot flying over the Cascade Mountains in the State of Washington observed nine flying disc- shaped aircraft traveling in formation at a high rate of speed. Although this was not the first known sighting of such objects, it was the first to gain widespread attention in the public media. Hundreds of reports of sightings of similar objects followed. Many of these came from highly credible military and civilian sources. These reports resulted in independent efforts by several different elements of the military to ascertain the nature and purpose of these objects in the interest of national defense. A number of witnesses were interviewed and there were >>> Continued to next message --- . SLMR 2.1a . InfoNet London (519)649-6196 Hit ^C and enter HELP at $ Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uunet.ca!hombas!joseph.daniels From: joseph.daniels@homebase.com (Joseph Daniels) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: UFO March on Washingt 2/3 Message-ID: <1970.479.uupcb@homebase.com> Date: 27 Nov 92 01:17:00 GMT Distribution: world Organization: Home Base BBS - St. Thomas, Ontario - 519-633-7253 Reply-To: joseph.daniels@homebase.com (Joseph Daniels) Lines: 146 >>> Continued from previous message several unsuccessful attempts to utilize aircraft in efforts to pursue reported discs in flight. Public reaction bordered on near hysteria at times. In spite of these efforts, little of substance was learned about the objects until a local rancher reported that one had crashed in a remote region of New Mexico located approximately seventy- five miles northwest of Roswell Army Air Base (now Walker Field). On 07 July, 1947, a secret operation was begun to assure recovery of the wreckage of this object for scientific study. During the course of this operation, aerial reconnaissance discovered that four small human-like beings had apparently ejected from the craft at some point before it exploded. These had fallen to earth about two miles east of the wreckage site. All four were dead and badly decomposed due to action by predators and exposure to the elements during the approximately one week time period which had elapsed before their discovery. A special scientific team took charge of removing these bodies for study. (See Attachment "C".) The wreckage of the craft was also removed to several different locations. (See Attachment "B".) Civilian and military witnesses in the area were debriefed, and news reporters were given the effective cover story that the object had been a misguided weather research balloon. ************** * TOP SECRET * ************** EYES ONLY T52-EXEMPT (E) .pa ************** * TOP SECRET * ************** EYES ONLY COPY ONE OF ONE A covert analytical effort organized by Gen. Twining and Dr. Bush acting on the direct orders of the President, resulted in a preliminary concensus (19 September, 1947) that the disc was most likely a short range reconnaissance craft. This conclusion was based for the most part on the craft's size and apparent lack of any identifiable provisioning. (See Attachment "D".) A similar analysis of the four dead occupants was arranged by Dr. Bronk. It was the tentative conclusion of this group (30 November, 1947) that although these creatures are human-like in appearance, the biological and evolutionary processes responsible for their development has apparently been quite different from those observed or postulated in homo-sapiens. Dr. Bronk's team has suggested the term "Extra-terrestrial Biological Entities", or "EBEs" be adopted as the standard term of reference for these creatures until such time as a more definitive designation can be agreed upon. Since it is virtually certain that these craft do not originate in any country on earth, considerable speculation has centered around what their point of origin might be and how they get here. Mars was and remains a possibility, although some scientists, most notably Dr. Menzel, consider it more likely that we are dealing with beings from another solar system entirely. Numerous examples of what appear to be a form of writing were found in the wreckage. Efforts to decipher these have remained largely unsuccessful. (See Attachment "E".) Equally unsuccessful have been efforts to determine the method of propulsion or the nature of method of transmission of the power source involved. Research along these lines has been complicated by the complete absence of identifiable wings, propellers, jets, or other conventional methods of propulsion and guidance, as well as a total lack of metallic wiring, vacuum tubes, or similar recognizable electronic components. (See Attachment "F".) It is assumed that the propulsion unit was completely destroyed by the explosion which caused the crash. ************** * TOP SECRET * ************** EYES ONLY T52-EXEMPT (E) .pa ************** * TOP SECRET * ************** EYES ONLY COPY ONE OF ONE A need for as much additional information as possible about these craft, their performance characteristics and their purpose led to the undertaking known as U.S. Air Force Project SIGN in December, 1947. In order to preserve security, liason between SIGN and Majestic-12 was limited to two individuals within the Intelligence Division of Air Material Command whose role was to pass along certain types of information through channels. SIGN evolved into Project GRUDGE in December, 1948. The operation is currently being conducted under the code name BLUE BOOK, with liason maintained through the Air Force officer who is head of the project. On 06 December, 1950, a second object, probably of similar origin, impacted the earth at high speed in the El Indio - Guerrero area of the Texas - Mexican border after following a long trajectory through the atmosphere. By the time a search team arrived, what remained of the object had been almost totally incinerated. Such material as could be recovered was transported to the A.E.C. facility at Sandia, New Mexico, for study. Implications for the National Security are of continuing importance in that the motives and ultimate intentions of these visitors remain completely unknown. In addition, a significant upsurge in the surveillance activity of these craft beginning in May and continuing through the autumn of this year has caused considerable concern that new developments may be imminent. It is for these reasons, as well as the obvious international and technological considerations and the ultimate need to avoid a public panic at all costs, that the Majestic-12 Group remains of the unanimous opinion that imposition of the strictest security precautions should continue without interruption into the new administration. At the same time, contingency plan MJ-1949-04P/78 (Top Secret - Eyes Only) should be held in continued readiness should the need to make a public announcement present itself. (See Attachment "G".) >>> Continued to next message --- . SLMR 2.1a . InfoNet London (519)649-6196 Hit ^C and enter HELP at $ Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uunet.ca!hombas!joseph.daniels From: joseph.daniels@homebase.com (Joseph Daniels) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: UFO March on Washingt 3/3 Message-ID: <1971.479.uupcb@homebase.com> Date: 27 Nov 92 01:17:00 GMT Distribution: world Organization: Home Base BBS - St. Thomas, Ontario - 519-633-7253 Reply-To: joseph.daniels@homebase.com (Joseph Daniels) Lines: 65 >>> Continued from previous message ************** * TOP SECRET * ************** EYES ONLY COPY ONE OF ONE .pa ************** * TOP SECRET * ************** EYES ONLY COPY ONE OF ONE ENUMERATION OF ATTACHMENTS: *ATTACHMENT "A"........Special Classified Executive Order #092447. (TS/EO) *ATTACHMENT "B"........Operation Majestic-12 Status Report #1, Part A. 30 NOV '47. (TS-MAJIC/EO) *ATTACHMENT "C"........Operation Majestic-12 Status Report #1, Part B. 30 NOV '47. (TS-MAJIC/EO) *ATTACHMENT "D"........Operation Majestic-12 Preliminary Analytical Report. 19 SEP '47. (TS-MAJIC/EO) *ATTACHMENT "E"........Operation Majestic-12 Blue Team Report #5. 30 JUN '52. (TS-MAJIC/EO) *ATTACHMENT "F"........Operation Majestic-12 Status Report #2. 31 JAN '48. (TS-MAJIC/EO) *ATTACHMENT "G"........Operation Majestic-12 Contingency Plan MJ-1949-04P/78: 31 JAN '49. (TS-MAJIC/EO) *ATTACHMENT "H"........Operation Majestic-12, Maps and Photographs Folio (Extractions). (TS-MAJIC/EO) .pa ************** * TOP SECRET * ************** EYES ONLY COPY ONE OF ONE --- . SLMR 2.1a . InfoNet London (519)649-6196 Hit ^C and enter HELP at $ Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uunet.ca!hombas!joseph.daniels From: joseph.daniels@homebase.com (Joseph Daniels) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Swamp Gas Journal Message-ID: <1972.479.uupcb@homebase.com> Date: 27 Nov 92 01:28:00 GMT Distribution: world Organization: Home Base BBS - St. Thomas, Ontario - 519-633-7253 Reply-To: joseph.daniels@homebase.com (Joseph Daniels) Lines: 19 From: joseph.daniels@homebase.com To: rutkows@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Chris Rutkowski) CR|Volume 6 The SWAMP GAS JOURNAL ISSN 0707-7106 |Number 3 ********************* November 1992 `---------------------------------------------------------------------- Chris, I saw you recently on an episode of Unsolved Mysteries about the Michael Mikoloski (sp?) case in Manitoba. Your Journal is fantastic, it sure beats some of the "crap" I see posted here. How can I get back issues? I am located in London, Ontario...is there a local UFO group that you know of? I'd really like to get more involved. --- . SLMR 2.1a . Don't put Descarte before the horse. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12961 alt.alien.visitors:11401 sci.skeptic:34890 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!munnari.oz.au!bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au!cheops!pclink From: pclink@cheops.qld.tne.oz.au (Rick) Subject: Re: Alien Ships. Message-ID: <1992Nov27.074133.26286@cheops.qld.tne.oz.au> Organization: Telecom Australia, TNE Computer Support Services References: <70056@cup.portal.com> <1992Nov25.114326.1797@dct.ac.uk> <1992Nov25.192638.16482@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu> <1992Nov26.101436.1848@dct.ac.uk> Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1992 07:41:33 GMT Lines: 30 mcsdc1al@dct.ac.uk writes: >I explained the pyramid thing to a guy last night, well partly at least. I >don't have the time to put a full and detailed posting on the subject and >frankly I wouldn't anyway because you never know who's reading. > The pyramids were built by aliens aided by the Egyptians, using sound to >construct them. Please post an explanation, or at least a pointer to your sources. > The Nazca lines were ORIGINALLY runways for UFOs. After alien activity >and research in the area stopped the Nazca indians added to the lines creating >pictures in the plains. They even learned how to fly from the aliens allowing >them to see their work. All of the documentaries I've seen would seem to indicate that UFOs have VTOL capability. Why do they need runways? And the Nazca aliens learnt to fly? Did they use their knowldege? From observing an alien craft, did they experience major social/economic changes, have an industrial revolution, build a manufacturing base, manufacture flying machines, then slide back into barbarism? Rick. > >> Jason >> >> Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12963 alt.alien.visitors:11402 sci.skeptic:34896 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!psgrain!ee.und.ac.za!shrike.und.ac.za!pcu20.mtb.und.ac.za!stofberg From: stofberg@mtb.und.ac.za (Prof. Jacobus Stofberg) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Space Craft Without Pants Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1992 10:27:17 GMT Organization: University Of Natal (Durban) Lines: 34 Message-ID: References: <1992Nov11.151619.21039@engage.pko.dec.com> <69492@cup.portal.com> <16NOV199210204491@apsicc.aps.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: pcu20.mtb.und.ac.za In article esi102@cck.coventry.ac.uk (The Magician) writes: >From: esi102@cck.coventry.ac.uk (The Magician) >Subject: Re: Space Craft Without Pants >Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 10:11:37 GMT > >In article <69492@cup.portal.com>, John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes... >>Dear Space People Watchers: The people from other planets as far as >>I have been told will give a sun a name (some of them call our >>sun Shan) and we are considered to be the third orbit from our sun >>unless you count Vulcan so we are the number three orbit planet of >>the sun Shan, except they don't use the same words for your numbers. >>John Winston. The people in our solar system use a inter planetary >>language called Solar Max. It's sort of the same way we use Latin > >Solar Max ??? that does'nt have anything to do with Fantastic Max does it ? >you know.. that cartoon kid who travels the cosmos in a toy space ship >to save the galaxy, with his teddy bear robot ? > >>as an international language. I will now close with solar language >>and say goodbye and may God be with you. Adona Vasu Baragus. > >Diolch yn vawr ! > >is all I have to say. > >Tim. >esi102@uk.ac.cov.cck >Dreams fade, but nigthmares live forever. > q q Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12964 alt.alien.visitors:11403 sci.skeptic:34903 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!pipex!warwick!str-ccsun!dct.ac.uk!mcsdc1al From: mcsdc1al@dct.ac.uk Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Alien Ships. Message-ID: <1992Nov27.094507.1912@dct.ac.uk> Date: 27 Nov 92 09:45:07 GMT References: <70056@cup.portal.com> <1992Nov27.074133.26286@cheops.qld.tne.oz.au> Organization: Dundee Institute of Technology Lines: 48 In article <1992Nov27.074133.26286@cheops.qld.tne.oz.au>, pclink@cheops.qld.tne.oz.au (Rick) writes: > mcsdc1al@dct.ac.uk writes: > >>I explained the pyramid thing to a guy last night, well partly at least. I >>don't have the time to put a full and detailed posting on the subject and >>frankly I wouldn't anyway because you never know who's reading. >> The pyramids were built by aliens aided by the Egyptians, using sound to >>construct them. > > Please post an explanation, or at least a pointer to your sources. One source that is readily available is "Linda Goodman's Star Signs", part of which concentrates on the use of sound. My main source can not be named. > >> The Nazca lines were ORIGINALLY runways for UFOs. After alien activity >>and research in the area stopped the Nazca indians added to the lines creating >>pictures in the plains. They even learned how to fly from the aliens allowing >>them to see their work. > > All of the documentaries I've seen would seem to indicate that UFOs have > VTOL capability. Why do they need runways? And the Nazca aliens learnt to > fly? Did they use their knowldege? From observing an alien craft, did > they experience major social/economic changes, have an industrial > revolution, build a manufacturing base, manufacture flying machines, then > slide back into barbarism? > > Rick. > > The Nazca indians did not learn to fly or create UFOs. Rather, they saw that it was possible for large objects to leave the ground in controlled flight. This led them to experiment and eventually they developed a primitive form of hot air balloon which allowed them to plan their work properly. At the time when the earliest Nazca lines were created, there was a major UFO base there. The 'runways' were intended to be navgational. An interesting theory is that the original Nazce lines were a map of the cosmos. > >> >>> Jason >>> >>> Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12965 alt.alien.visitors:11404 sci.skeptic:34905 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!pipex!warwick!str-ccsun!dct.ac.uk!mcsdc1al From: mcsdc1al@dct.ac.uk Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Alien Ships. Message-ID: <1992Nov27.094921.1915@dct.ac.uk> Date: 27 Nov 92 09:49:21 GMT References: <1992Nov25.192638.16482@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu> <1992Nov26.111000.23147@ntb.ch> Organization: Dundee Institute of Technology Lines: 12 In article <1992Nov26.111000.23147@ntb.ch>, milsom@ntb.ch (Paul Milsom) writes: > > The pyramids were not built by slaves, but by paid workers. The construction > is well documented and understood. No aliens are mentioned. > Paul. > > Paul Milsom > milsom@ntb.ch Of course aliens aren't mentined in any documentation. Just the same as alien intervention in WW2 and Vietnam has never been widely documented. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12966 alt.alien.visitors:11405 sci.skeptic:34916 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: <70383@cup.portal.com> Date: Fri, 27 Nov 92 06:21:47 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> Lines: 10 Dear People of Good Will: Your commments have been of great interest to me. I have been trying to figure something out and maybe your can help me. As you probubly know Polaris the north group of stars is used as the position for our north pole or the north direction. As we progress in time it is said that we will slowly move in our rotation so another star will be used as the north star. The question is which star was the north star before Polaris and which star will be the next north star after Polaris (which is more than one star)? Please post your answer. John Winston. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!ira.uka.de!news.belwue.de!eratu.rz.uni-konstanz.de!v36.chemie.uni-konstanz.de!C43 From: c43@v36.chemie.uni-konstanz.de Subject: Alien visitors landed in lake of konstanz (Ger) Message-ID: <1992Nov27.115450.134362@eratu.rz.uni-konstanz.de> Sender: usenet@eratu.rz.uni-konstanz.de Reply-To: username@v36.chemie.uni-konstanz.de Organization: Univ.Konstanz,Konstanz,Germany Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1992 11:54:50 GMT Lines: 17 On 25 of Nov. 1992 we saw two alien starships landing in the lake of konstanz, between 11 and 11.30 pm cet. The starships landed between konstanz and bregenz. It was a wonderfull sight, we could feel a strong "force field" 10 min before we saw the first lightning in the sky. It was an oscilating flashlight, that blinded m our eyes. We cannot describe if it was a hurting or a calming feeling, but it was really wonderful. It was if when they ran down from the sky on a lumious street. Then they stood over the lake in about 5 meters and they threw out something that looked like a ball. That ball sank down in the lake, it is one of the deepest places in the lake, and the aliens started again their powerful rockets of their ships and disappeared in a flash of light and with a roaring sound. We couldn't stand the hurting light, so we had to look away and when we stared in the sky again, there was nothing left, the sky was empty. But we know, there were aliens at the lake of Konstanz and they left something back and someday they'll come back. Heinz, Alex, Andi Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12967 alt.alien.visitors:11407 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: UFOs and Newage Message-ID: <70384@cup.portal.com> Date: Fri, 27 Nov 92 06:24:42 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) Distribution: world References: <64264@cup.portal.com> Lines: 2 Dear Ones: Welcome back from Thanksgiving. I hope you had a good one. John Winston. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Penn State UFO Discussion Group Message-ID: <70385@cup.portal.com> Date: Fri, 27 Nov 92 06:33:45 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <92325.114057JLS19@psuvm.psu.edu> Lines: 4 Dear Big Time UFO Club Leaders: Boy that is very impressive, all of those guest and everything. I know you have put forth a lot of effort in this endeavor. Keep up the good work. John Winston. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Our Friend, John_-_Winston Message-ID: <70386@cup.portal.com> Date: Fri, 27 Nov 92 06:43:27 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Nov23.204110.10682@news.cs.brandeis.edu> <1992Nov24.051923.26585@ringer.cs.utsa.edu> Lines: 4 Dear Question Asker: I found your questions very interesting and will try to answer them but I have to get to work now. John Winston. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!malgudi.oar.net!caen!uunet!comp.vuw.ac.nz!waikato.ac.nz!aukuni.ac.nz!kcbbs!kc Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Our Friend, John_-_Winston Message-ID: <10292331.38013.5621@kcbbs.gen.nz> From: Robert_Sutton@kcbbs.gen.nz (Robert Sutton) Date: 27 Nov 92 10:33:33 GMT References: <1992Nov24.051923.26585@ringer.cs.utsa.edu> Organization: Kappa Crucis Unix BBS, Auckland, New Zealand Lines: 11 sbooth@lonestar.utsa.edu(Simon E.Booth) Tues 24 Nov 92 05:19:23 types-- >Pardon me is this a FAQ but who is this John Wilson character?. Well you might as well inquire who is God. *********************** ARE ETOI SPACESHIPS SHY OR ARE THEY JUST WAITING TO SEAL THE ROYALTY DEAL? **************************** Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!Germany.EU.net!Informatik.Uni-Dortmund.DE!meins.Informatik.Uni-Dortmund.DE!cp From: cp@meins.Informatik.Uni-Dortmund.DE (Christoph Peus) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Alien visitors landed in lake of konstanz (Ger) Date: 27 Nov 1992 15:41:54 GMT Organization: CS Department, Dortmund University, Germany Lines: 9 Distribution: world Message-ID: <1f5fk2INN5hc@fbi-news.Informatik.Uni-Dortmund.DE> References: <1992Nov27.115450.134362@eratu.rz.uni-konstanz.de> NNTP-Posting-Host: meins Dear Heinz, Alex, Andi, thank you very much for another "let us see if these a.a.v. guys are stupid enough to believe this garbage" posting ! You should inform yourself better next time to avoid those stuff even a 'Ufo believer' cannot believe. (excepted John_-_Winston of course ... ) Regards, Christoph Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!rutgers!concert!mercury!stern!ervin From: ervin@ncat.edu (Thomas Ervin) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Abort Message-ID: <1992Nov27.192750.28532@mercury.ncat.edu> Date: 27 Nov 92 19:27:50 GMT References: <1992Nov20.121428.10284@vax.oxford.ac.uk> Sender: usenet@mercury.ncat.edu (USENET News Sender) Reply-To: ervin@ncat.edu Organization: CSA LAB., NC A&T State University Lines: 1 Nntp-Posting-Host: stern.ncat.edu Test..... Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!waikato.ac.nz!aukuni.ac.nz!kcbbs!kc Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Potted Hypnotic Memories Message-ID: <10292332.39254.12226@kcbbs.gen.nz> From: Robert_Sutton@kcbbs.gen.nz (Robert Sutton) Date: 28 Nov 92 10:54:14 GMT References: <1992Nov26.162740.2609@netcom.com> Organization: Kappa Crucis Unix BBS, Auckland, New Zealand Lines: 12 payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne) Thu 26 Nov 1992 16:27:40 GMT types-- >Not that I am clear on what the difference is between real & planted >memories are. Maybe one can be aquired wholesale:-) ************************ ARE ETOI SPACESHIPS SHY? OR ARE THEY JUST WAITING TO SEAL THE ROYALTY DEAL. ************************* Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!destroyer!cs.ubc.ca!unixg.ubc.ca!kakwa.ucs.ualberta.ca!access.usask.ca!mizar.cc.umanitoba.ca!rutkows From: rutkows@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Chris Rutkowski) Subject: Re: Swamp Gas Journal Message-ID: Sender: news@ccu.umanitoba.ca Nntp-Posting-Host: ccu.umanitoba.ca Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Canada References: <1972.479.uupcb@homebase.com> Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1992 22:10:59 GMT Lines: 26 In <1972.479.uupcb@homebase.com> joseph.daniels@homebase.com (Joseph Daniels) writes: >CR|Volume 6 The SWAMP GAS JOURNAL ISSN 0707-7106 > Chris, I saw you recently on an episode of Unsolved Mysteries about > the Michael Mikoloski (sp?) case in Manitoba. Michalak. Read the SGJ issue! > Your Journal is fantastic, it sure beats some of the "crap" I see > posted here. How can I get back issues? The previous isue is also available. I will email it to you. David Thacker says he has put the issue before that one into Compu$erve somewhere. > I am located in London, Ontario...is there a local UFO group that you > know of? I'd really like to get more involved. In a word, no. There ARE some groups near you (well, TO), but some may not be etremely objective. You might try Bonnie Wheeler in Cambridge. Her group has regular meetings, with a WIDE range of interests. -- Chris Rutkowski - rutkows@ccu.umanitoba.ca Royal Astronomical Society of Canada University of Manitoba - Winnipeg, Canada Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Our Friend, John_-_Winston Message-ID: <70408@cup.portal.com> Date: Fri, 27 Nov 92 17:54:06 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Nov23.204110.10682@news.cs.brandeis.edu> Lines: 27 Subject: Answers to Questions. It has been asked how I manage to post so much and still have a regular job. In the back of my house I have a computer set up where I do my posting. From the computer it goes by phone to a communications company by the name of Portal and they send it to the net. It is a local call. When I get up in the morning I do a little posting and then when I get home. I post things to a floppy disk and then put them on the Net. My days off are Sunday and Monday and on those days I do quite a bit of posting. People wonder where I get the material that I post. Some of it comes from tabloid magazines. I realize that a lot of the information in these magazines is just a bunch of garbage but sometimes you can find a few pearls of wisdom in there especially if you read what is written by Brad Stieger and Stanton Friedman. Some of the material comes from channeled information from the space people. This material is sometimes in magazines like UFO Universe. I have a circle friends who collect and put me on to material. Jeff P. gives me information and also Kumar through the E-mail. One person sent me 103 K bytes at one time. Some of the information I take off the Net and rewrite it so it makes more sense in my opinion. I once had a Guru who is now dead who used to teach me a lot about the space people. I once was on the sides of Mt. Shasta and was given 2 spiritual masters who have given me guidance and information ever since. The space people give me guidance. I once live on Venus in a previous life and I and many other volunteered to come to earth to bring in the new age. I have even been taken aboard a space craft in the spirtual or astral form and been allowed to pilot a space craft for a while. That's all the time I have now to answer questions. John Winton. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: JW Message-ID: <70409@cup.portal.com> Date: Fri, 27 Nov 92 17:56:19 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <3576@evil.demon.co.uk> Lines: 3 Dear Ones: I have read all of your postings and will consider them very seriously. John Winston. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!spool.mu.edu!agate!ames!data.nas.nasa.gov!taligent!apple!netcomsv!netcom.com!payner From: payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Potted Hypnotic Memories Message-ID: <1992Nov28.024710.4102@netcom.com> Date: 28 Nov 92 02:47:10 GMT References: <1992Nov26.162740.2609@netcom.com> <10292332.39254.12226@kcbbs.gen.nz> Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) Lines: 22 In article <10292332.39254.12226@kcbbs.gen.nz> Robert_Sutton@kcbbs.gen.nz (Robert Sutton) writes: >payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne) Thu 26 Nov 1992 16:27:40 GMT types-- >>Not that I am clear on what the difference is between real & planted >>memories are. > >Maybe one can be aquired wholesale:-) Don't you need a reseller lisence for that? This does remind me of an interesting Science Fiction story I read some time ago. Wish I could remember what it was called. >************************ >ARE ETOI SPACESHIPS SHY? >OR ARE THEY JUST WAITING >TO SEAL THE ROYALTY DEAL. >************************* > Rich payner@netcom.com Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12973 alt.alien.visitors:11418 sci.skeptic:34948 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!haven.umd.edu!uunet!ogicse!news.u.washington.edu!hardy.u.washington.edu!pul From: pul@hardy.u.washington.edu (Arbaline) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Keywords: Vega Message-ID: <1992Nov28.090419.23858@u.washington.edu> Date: 28 Nov 92 09:04:19 GMT Article-I.D.: u.1992Nov28.090419.23858 References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <70383@cup.portal.com> Sender: news@u.washington.edu (USENET News System) Organization: University of Washington Lines: 32 In article <70383@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >I have been trying to figure something out and maybe your can >help me. As you probubly know Polaris the north group of stars is >used as the position for our north pole or the north direction. As we >progress in time it is said that we will slowly move in our rotation >so another star will be used as the north star. The question is which >star was the north star before Polaris and which star will be the >next north star after Polaris (which is more than one star)? Please >post your answer. >John Winston. Vega! Just as own planet Earth has an Arctic circle around the top of its upper hemisphere, so does the celestial sphere of stars have a similar invisible ring. As Earth's orbit wobbles through its 26,000 year precession cycle of the equinoxes, the point in space to which the north pole points varies around this ring. Presently, the north point points to the star Polaris, so we call it the north star, but it will seem to us to move gradually away from our true north point as time goes on. The only other major star on this ring is the very bright star Vega, but we have at least another 10,000 years to go. A few thoughts: Our true "north celestial star" should be whatever is at the center of the precession ring, not whatever star is at or near the present point on the ring (just as our north pole is at the center of the Arctic circle, not whatever point on the Arctic circle is presently perpendicular to the Earth Sun plane.) Also, it would be interesting to determine the exact year where Polaris is actually closest to being our North Star. It's within a 100 years of now, and with the Aquarian Age coming, it would be interesting to look into. -|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|- | Walter D. "Cruiser1" Pullen - pul@hardy.u.washington.edu. | -|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|- Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12974 alt.alien.visitors:11419 sci.skeptic:34949 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!psinntp!isc-newsserver!ritvax.isc.rit.edu!ENTPPH From: entpph@ritvax.isc.rit.edu Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: <1992Nov28.100943.20312@ultb.isc.rit.edu> Sender: news@ultb.isc.rit.edu (USENET News System) Nntp-Posting-Host: vaxc.isc.rit.edu Reply-To: entpph@ritvax.isc.rit.edu Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <70347@cup.portal.com>,<1992Nov26.205118.13723@morwyn.uucp> Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1992 10:09:43 GMT Lines: 22 In article <1992Nov26.205118.13723@morwyn.uucp>, forrie@morwyn.uucp (Forrest Aldrich) writes: >From article <70347@cup.portal.com>, >John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com has written: >[ ridiculous story, omitted ] >+-------------------- >| Once she looked around our living room and said, "What a dump, " just like >| that line from the Bette Davis movie. She likes to play dress up and wear >+-------------------- > > Er, isn't that line from "Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolfe", starring > none other than Elizabeth Taylor?? > > Forrest >-- If it is, Taylor is quoting/alluding to Bette Davis' line in that movie-- the title of which I can never remember--where she plays an unfaithful wife in the north woods of Wisconsin and comes to a bad end. Joseph Cotton played her husband, and David somebody her wealthy lover from Chicago. (David Bryant?) Erik Timmerman Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!spool.mu.edu!agate!dog.ee.lbl.gov!hellgate.utah.edu!csn!scicom!paranet!p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Michael.Corbin From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Contact Notes Message-ID: <141236.2B16D939@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Date: 28 Nov 92 01:25:01 GMT Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26) Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/428.0 - From: joseph.daniels@homebase.com (Joseph Daniels) > Date: 27 Nov 92 01:11:00 GMT > Organization: Home Base BBS - St. Thomas, Ontario - 519-633-7253 > Message-ID: <1968.479.uupcb@homebase.com> > Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors > I just finished that book yesterday. His theories and hoaxes are > harder to believe than the stories reported. For those of you that > have NOT read the book, Vallee believes that most UFO reports are > true actual physical events, but that they are "staged" by the various > intelligence groups around the world to cover up other activities. > For example if the economy is bad, then stage a huge UFO hoax to take > people's attention off the recession. I disagree with your assessment of what Vallee is trying to say. That can be a part of it, for example the discovery of the UMMO-cult being part of an eastern bloc intelligence network. However, he is saying that there appears to be a control mechanism of some sort involved in the phenomenon, but it operates from a background position, perhaps using people in some capacity, either knowingly or not, to execute its agenda. "It" being the control factor, whatever that is. Suffice it to say that whatever i s going on, it has many, many layers and no one is able to actually conceive just how complex it really is. There can be some action on the part of a covert intelligence group that could stage abductions or sightings for that matter utilizing some bizarre advanced technology like laser-generated holograms, and a host of other things involving drugs, mind control techniques and whatever to achieve a purpose. > I have to say that I think the guy is caught between a rock and a hard > place, because he admits time and time again in his book that these > UFO happenings are "real" because he has researched them himself. > He's seen the evidence and talked first hand to the witnesses, but on > the other-hand he does not want to admit that there are any Aliens, so > he's trying to sell this half-baked theory about the sightings and > abductions as actual physical events that are staged by covert > government agencies. > It sounds convincing in the book but when you stand-back and think > about it then it's quite absurd. Why didn't the US send a UFO to > abduct Saddam Hussein instead of all those troops? Why didn't Bush > have Clinton abdcuted by Aliens and told too drop out of the > Presidential race? Why don't we send a UFO to Somalia with food? I feel that Vallee is one of the most accurate thinkers studying this field. He is a scientist and has solid credentials. He does not get bogged down in the half-baked pseudo-religious/scientific cult-like thinking so prevalent in the field. He deals with actual case studies and hard data, drawing some theories from that. Mike -- Michael Corbin - via ParaNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!munnari.oz.au!bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au!uqcspe!cs.uq.oz.au!rhys From: rhys@cs.uq.oz.au (Rhys Weatherley) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: About John Winston and others ... Message-ID: <11218@uqcspe.cs.uq.oz.au> Date: 28 Nov 92 10:48:56 GMT Sender: news@cs.uq.oz.au Reply-To: rhys@cs.uq.oz.au Lines: 29 This should probably be posted once a week. A number of new people have joined, or have been passing through, a.a.v in the past few weeks so this bears repetition: There are a number of strange (for want of a better word) people who frequent this newsgroup. John Winston and Gary Stollman being the most recognisable to those who have "stuck it out". There is a simple strategy to deal with these people if you don't believe what they are sprouting: ignore them, or put them in your kill file. Too simple? If you believe what they say, fine - it's your right to believe whatever you want. But if not, don't add to the noise. Trying to get them to stop is fruitless. Also keep in mind that they could just be pranksters posting to get attention and to laugh at people who take them seriously or flame them. They could even be disinformation agents setting out to discredit the lot of us. Drawing attention to them just eggs them on to post more. Us long-timers (if I can call myself that :-) gave up long ago trying to get them to stop. I haven't checked the latest FAQ, but this should probably be put in if it's not there already. Back to our regularly scheduled ... whatever it is we discuss here. :) Rhys. -- Rhys Weatherley, University of Queensland, Australia. rhys@cs.uq.oz.au "I'm a FAQ nut - what's your problem?" Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12975 alt.alien.visitors:11422 sci.skeptic:34950 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: <70429@cup.portal.com> Date: Sat, 28 Nov 92 06:17:36 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> Lines: 3 Dear Folks: Thanks very much for the information about the North Star and Bette Davis. You are all a fount of Knowledge. John Winston. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12976 alt.alien.visitors:11423 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: UFOs and Newage Message-ID: <70430@cup.portal.com> Date: Sat, 28 Nov 92 06:25:35 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) Distribution: world References: <64264@cup.portal.com> <70384@cup.portal.com> Lines: 8 Dear Folks: At the present time I am making up a group to go into the underground city in Death Valley. I have two or possubly three who plan to go with me if all goes well. We will probubly drop by and see the pyramid or storehouse at Lone Pine, Calif. too. We may also drop by the Early Site of Man just outside of Barstow, Calif. John Winston. We will be gone from Dec. 26th till about the last day of Dec. John Winston. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Renaming a.a.v. Message-ID: <70433@cup.portal.com> Date: Sat, 28 Nov 92 06:39:38 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <14772.2b11997e@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu> <1992Nov24.182519.28390@odin.corp.sgi.com> Lines: 5 Dear People: Did I hear my name mentioned in vain? I agree with the comments mentioned about KGO and their selection of guest although I love the station and listen to it a lot. I even listen to Rush LImbaugh. Now that should get me a few flames. John Winston. Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:11425 alt.conspiracy:20242 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy Subject: Re: INVASION!!! Message-ID: <70434@cup.portal.com> Date: Sat, 28 Nov 92 06:43:18 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Nov25.143247.21934@netcom.com> <1992Nov25.184531.24465@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> Lines: 3 Dear Gary: Welcome back. They may call you a lot of things, but your not dull. John Winston. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: About John Winston and others ... Message-ID: <70435@cup.portal.com> Date: Sat, 28 Nov 92 06:47:50 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <11218@uqcspe.cs.uq.oz.au> Lines: 3 Dear Folks: I glad we have the right to listen to who ever we please. I appreciate this person giving us his oppinion. John Winston. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12977 alt.alien.visitors:11427 sci.skeptic:34953 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!nntp-server.caltech.edu!SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU!CARL From: carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU (Carl J Lydick) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Date: 28 Nov 1992 16:32:06 GMT Organization: HST Wide Field/Planetary Camera Lines: 26 Distribution: world Message-ID: <1f86u6INN32r@gap.caltech.edu> References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <70383@cup.portal.com>,<1992Nov28.090419.23858@u.washington.edu> Reply-To: carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU NNTP-Posting-Host: sol1.gps.caltech.edu In article <1992Nov28.090419.23858@u.washington.edu>, pul@hardy.u.washington.edu (Arbaline) writes: =A few thoughts: Our true "north celestial star" should be whatever is at =the center of the precession ring, not whatever star is at or near the =present point on the ring (just as our north pole is at the center of =the Arctic circle, not whatever point on the Arctic circle is =presently perpendicular to the Earth Sun plane.) Why ever would you care about something like that? The north star is useful for navigational purposes. For those, you want to know which way the Earth's axis is pointing NOW, not some average taken over many millenia. =Also, it would be =interesting to determine the exact year where Polaris is actually =closest to being our North Star. It's within a 100 years of now, and =with the Aquarian Age coming, it would be interesting to look into. Ah. That explains it. Well, if you want to base your superstitions on million-year averages, please feel free to do so. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Carl J Lydick | INTERnet: CARL@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU | NSI/HEPnet: SOL1::CARL Disclaimer: Hey, I understand VAXen and VMS. That's what I get paid for. My understanding of astronomy is purely at the amateur level (or below). So unless what I'm saying is directly related to VAX/VMS, don't hold me or my organization responsible for it. If it IS related to VAX/VMS, you can try to hold me responsible for it, but my organization had nothing to do with it. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!pipex!pavo.csi.cam.ac.uk!warwick!str-ccsun!dct.ac.uk!ccdarg From: ccdarg@dct.ac.uk (Alan Greig) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Potted Hypnotic Memories Message-ID: <1992Nov28.171119.1956@dct.ac.uk> Date: 28 Nov 92 17:11:19 GMT References: <1992Nov26.162740.2609@netcom.com> <10292332.39254.12226@kcbbs.gen.nz> <1992Nov28.024710.4102@netcom.com> Organization: Dundee Institute of Technology Lines: 21 In article <1992Nov28.024710.4102@netcom.com>, payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne) writes: > In article <10292332.39254.12226@kcbbs.gen.nz> Robert_Sutton@kcbbs.gen.nz (Robert Sutton) writes: >>payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne) Thu 26 Nov 1992 16:27:40 GMT types-- >>>Not that I am clear on what the difference is between real & planted >>>memories are. >> >>Maybe one can be aquired wholesale:-) > > Don't you need a reseller lisence for that? This does remind me of an > interesting Science Fiction story I read some time ago. Wish I could > remember what it was called. That's P.K. Dick I think. "We can remember it for you wholesale" or something like that. Made into the film with Arnie muscles going to Mars. Now what was the film called again? -- Alan Greig Janet: Alan@UK.AC.DUNDEE-TECH Dundee Institute of Technology Internet: Alan@DCT.AC.UK Tel: (0382) 308810 Int: +44 382 308810 -- There is only one true conspiracy -- Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12978 alt.alien.visitors:11429 sci.skeptic:34956 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!caen!uunet!munnari.oz.au!jabaru.cec.edu.au!csource!alfa From: alfa@csource.oz.au (glenn durden) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: Date: Sat, 28 Nov 92 21:27:21 +1100 References: <70365@cup.portal.com> Reply-To: alfa@csource.oz.au Organization: Unique Computing Pty Ltd, Melbourne, Australia Lines: 16 John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: > Dear People: Today was Thankgiving. I had a great day and hope you > did too. > John Winston. Ok, so it was thanksgiving in your country. You americans seem to forget this is a worldwide net, and that your local customs mean diddly-shit to people around the other side of the planet. GD (whats this got to do with a.a.v anyway?) ......................................................... glenn durden alfa@csource.oz.au Unique Computing Pty Ltd, Melbourne, Australia The opinions expressed above are that of the author only. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!spool.mu.edu!yale.edu!jvnc.net!netnews.upenn.edu!grip.cis.upenn.edu!jmv From: jmv@grip.cis.upenn.edu (Jean-Marc Vezien) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Potted Hypnotic Memories Message-ID: <99569@netnews.upenn.edu> Date: 28 Nov 92 19:52:58 GMT References: <1992Nov26.162740.2609@netcom.com> <10292332.39254.12226@kcbbs.gen.nz> <1992Nov28.024710.4102@netcom.com> <1992Nov28.171119.1956@dct.ac.uk> Sender: news@netnews.upenn.edu Organization: GRASP Lab Lines: 49 Nntp-Posting-Host: grip.cis.upenn.edu In article <1992Nov28.171119.1956@dct.ac.uk>, ccdarg@dct.ac.uk (Alan Greig) writes: > In article <1992Nov28.024710.4102@netcom.com>, payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne) writes: > > In article <10292332.39254.12226@kcbbs.gen.nz> Robert_Sutton@kcbbs.gen.nz (Robert Sutton) writes: > >>payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne) Thu 26 Nov 1992 16:27:40 GMT types-- > >>>Not that I am clear on what the difference is between real & planted > >>>memories are. > >> > >>Maybe one can be aquired wholesale:-) > > > > Don't you need a reseller lisence for that? This does remind me of an > > interesting Science Fiction story I read some time ago. Wish I could > > remember what it was called. > > That's P.K. Dick I think. "We can remember it for you wholesale" or > something like that. Made into the film with Arnie muscles going to Mars. > Now what was the film called again? Funny you can't remember it. It's called Total Recall :) :) JM. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!uunet!mcsun!sun4nl!hacktic!blackhl!stycx!peter From: peter@stycx.hacktic.nl (Author) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: CONTACT NOTES Message-ID: Date: Sat, 28 Nov 92 06:45:29 PST References: <1968.479.uupcb@homebase.com> Organization: River of Doom. Running through Central Holland Lines: 31 > I have to say that I think the guy is caught between a rock and a hard > place, because he admits time and time again in his book that these > UFO happenings are "real" because he has researched them himself. > He's seen the evidence and talked first hand to the witnesses, but on > the other-hand he does not want to admit that there are any Aliens, so > he's trying to sell this half-baked theory about the sightings and > abductions as actual physical events that are staged by covert > government agencies. > I think that your conjecture is valid, alle's claims are indeed very unlikely. After reading the Cooper/Vallee interview I must say that, in the light of that what you just said, it becomes likely to me that Vallee would play a role in a disinformation campaign. The scope of his claims make it possible to catch two birds with ones stone, first the his own 007 kind of story is sufficient to give sceptics a perfect weapon to do away with the whole subject, while by assuming the role of the critical interviewer he makes Cooper's claims the more unlikely. Along the lines of 'here we have a crackpot who is not even being taken serious by the other obvious crackpot. The whole thing is being turned over to laughers, what better method of keeping a coverup going. Nobody wants to become the target of ridicule and those of us who defy that prospect will not be listened to anyhow. Greetings Peter ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- peter@stycx.hacktic.nl (5W) Crawling out from the river of darkness into your own private pinball machine Call STYCX (Waffle 1.65) from 23:00 to 06:00 Central European Time Number +31-3404-59551 Newkid Intown the nastiest Sysop arround Xref: icaen alt.conspiracy:20253 sci.skeptic:34968 alt.alien.visitors:11432 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!sun4nl!hacktic!blackhl!stycx!peter From: peter@stycx.hacktic.nl (Author) Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,sci.skeptic,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: UFOs & Jimmy Carter Message-ID: <6DeyuB1w165w@stycx.hacktic.nl> Date: Sat, 28 Nov 92 06:35:41 PST References: <1992Nov27.051615.9629@cs.ucla.edu> Organization: River of Doom. Running through Central Holland Lines: 25 > |In one of Carter's election campaign speeches he said that he's seen a UFO > |and that if he gets elected to become prez he'll make public all the govt > |files on UFOs. > > |What ever became of this election promise? Did anything happen? > > Is this not a case in point for what Cooper claimed, let's face it if there is indeed secret government involvement along the lines described by him, than it would make very good sence that President Carter and candidte Carter would take a totally different approach. Maybe it would be a useful idea to begin a series of letters to former President Carter along the line of the 'letters to Clinton'. Realistically however I don't expect any form of reply. Just for the record I did not say that that what Cooper claims is actually true, but the Carter thing does come in support of these claims. Greetings Peter ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- peter@stycx.hacktic.nl (5W) Crawling out from the river of darkness into your own private pinball machine Call STYCX (Waffle 1.65) from 23:00 to 06:00 Central European Time Number +31-3404-59551 Newkid Intown the nastiest Sysop arround Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Our Friend, John_-_Winston Message-ID: <70477@cup.portal.com> Date: Sat, 28 Nov 92 18:57:13 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Nov23.204110.10682@news.cs.brandeis.edu> Lines: 20 1> Subject: Answers To Questions. Part 2. It was asked what connection do invisible fish have with UFOs. I was trying to show a progression of invisible fish, invisible space people and other dimensions. Before we can understand the space people we are going to have to realize that we are in a very low vibrational state and most of the space people are so much higher in freq. than us that we can't even see them. You will find that the frequency of our aura will be proportional to our soul developement and many people don't even believe that they have a soul. So that's why invisible fish are important. John Winston End Part 2. w ,(x Date: Sat, 28 Nov 92 19:04:07 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> Lines: 2 Deaar Folks: You people never fail to amaze me with your postings. John Winston. Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:11435 alt.conspiracy:20254 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!ohstpy!vancleef From: vancleef@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy Subject: Re: INVASION!!! Message-ID: <14820.2b18081e@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu> Date: 29 Nov 92 00:00:30 EST References: <1992Nov25.143247.21934@netcom.com> <1992Nov25.184531.24465@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> <70434@cup.portal.com> Organization: The Ohio State University, Department of Physics Lines: 10 In article <70434@cup.portal.com>, John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: > Dear Gary: Welcome back. They may call you a lot of things, but your > not dull. > John Winston. Finally, a comment with substance from JW :) -Garrett Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12981 alt.alien.visitors:11436 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!ohstpy!vancleef From: vancleef@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: UFOs and Newage Message-ID: <14821.2b1808b7@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu> Date: 29 Nov 92 00:03:03 EST References: <64264@cup.portal.com> <70384@cup.portal.com> <70430@cup.portal.com> Distribution: world Organization: The Ohio State University, Department of Physics Lines: 18 In article <70430@cup.portal.com>, John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: > Dear Folks: At the present time I am making up a group to go into > the underground city in Death Valley. I have two or possubly three > who plan to go with me if all goes well. We will probubly drop > by and see the pyramid or storehouse at Lone Pine, Calif. too. We > may also drop by the Early Site of Man just outside of Barstow, Calif. > John Winston. We will be gone from Dec. 26th till about the last > day of Dec. > John Winston. So basically you are telling us that we should expect a significant increase in the signal-to-noise ratio in this newgroup for five days! Thanks John, -Garrett Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!csus.edu!netcom.com!payner From: payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne) Subject: Re: Our Friend, John_-_Winston Message-ID: <1992Nov29.050124.9675@netcom.com> Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) References: <1992Nov23.204110.10682@news.cs.brandeis.edu> <70477@cup.portal.com> Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1992 05:01:24 GMT Lines: 37 In article <70477@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >1> >Subject: Answers To >Questions. Part 2. > It was asked what connection do invisible fish have with UFOs. I was >trying to show a progression of invisible fish, invisible space people and >other dimensions. Before we can understand the space people we are going to >have to realize that we are in a very low vibrational state and most of the >space people are so much higher in freq. than us that we can't even see >them. You will find that the frequency of our aura will be proportional >to our soul developement and many people don't even believe that they have a >soul. > So that's why invisible fish are important. >John Winston End Part 2. John, you have me confused. If I read this right, then these invisible fish must be at a higher "vibrational state" than most of mankind. I rather thought that the most primitive man was far more advanced than the most evolved fish. Then again, without knowing exactly what a "vibrational state" is, confused may not be the right word. >w > >,(x,< >0Roman 10cpi I'd suggest a mono-spaced font for posting to the net. Rich payner@netcom.com From: brian@hplvec.LVLD.HP.COM (Brian Wood) Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1992 18:42:44 GMT Subject: Re: Renaming a.a.v. Message-ID: <15840001@hplvec.LVLD.HP.COM> Organization: HP Mfg. Test Div., Loveland, CO Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!col.hp.com!news.dtc.hp.com!hpscit.sc.hp.com!scd.hp.com!hpscdm!hplextra!hpfcso!hplvec!brian Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors References: <14772.2b11997e@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu> Lines: 7 Since aliens seem to like to eat humans, I propose we eat Mr. Winston, who, if the truth be known, is really from the star cluster Sigret (which is near the conjunction of Zeta Reticuli and Barnard's Star). After all, "Winston tastes good, like a Sigret should." Brian Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!psuvax1!rutgers!igor.rutgers.edu!dropout.rutgers.edu!mcgrew From: mcgrew@dropout.rutgers.edu (Charles Mcgrew) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Pictures of Alien (Roswell) Message-ID: Date: 29 Nov 92 05:59:31 GMT References: Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J. Lines: 56 peter@stycx.hacktic.nl (Author) writes: Hi, everyone. I was reading UFO Crash Secrets at Wright/Patterson Air Force base, by James W. Moseley. On the backcover of this book a picture apperently of one of the aliens recovered from the crash site. This picture seems to originate from the late Prof Zigel. ... I dunno if we're talking about the same photo (since you don't describe it), but from Leonard Stringfield's "Status Report VI" (July, 1991 -- pg. 132): "Sensation and mystery were the names of the game when a real looking alien photo made its rounds in Europe in late 1990. First to burst on the scene was a black and white photo that surfaced from a Russian source which showed a front view of a chubby-faced dead 'alien' with slanting eyelids covering a pair of large eyes." According to Michael Hesemann, in Germany, who got an exclusive copy from a reliable Russian source, the photo had a 'Canadian connection', rumored to be a scientist who had sent a copy to the late Felix Zigel, In Russia. Zigel, a scientist known to the Western nations, was the Soviets' leading UFO researcher going back into the 1970's. I published some of his findings in 'Situation Red: The UFO Seige'" [Out of print, alas - CWM] Also, it was rumored that the alien in the photo had a Roswell connection. Suddenly, its aura of mystery became important. Hesemann, sensing its importance, trustingly sent three or four copies to American researchers for examination and, as always, copies were soon in the hands of everybody. As research pondered its significance, a few willing to accepti it as 'proof', another photo, in color, showing a face similar to the black and white copy, began to mushroom in Europe. I got a copy from Erik Olsen, a researcher in Copenhagen Denmark, in December 1990. When I called him to learn his source, he could only say that it came from England. The mystery was soon solved. When I called Christian Page in Canada, requesting data on the Carp crash case [dealt with separately in SR VI - CWM], we talked about other subjects, too, including alien photos such as the rib cage phony and the photo that was currently circulating showing the fat-faced alien. Page, disturbed that it was making news, came out forthright to say that he was the person who took the colored photo in 1979 at a Montreal exhibition. Said Page in his letter of May 30, 1991, quoted in part: ...The humanoid in the picture, despite its amazing realism, was simply a wax reproduction that I had photographed at the Pavillon de l insolite [sp? -CWM], in Montreal, one of the permanent exhibits built for the Universal Exposition in 1967. Page further stated that the dummy, real-sized, was dressed in a metallic suit (in reality, a scuba diver suit) and rested lengthwise under a plexiglass cylinder." ... does that help? Charles Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12982 alt.alien.visitors:11440 sci.skeptic:34976 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!gatech!pitt.edu!gvls1!tredysvr!cellar!revpk From: revpk@cellar.org (Brian 'Rev P-K' Siano) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Greys, Good or Bad Message-ID: Date: 29 Nov 92 04:43:43 GMT References: <1992Nov23.181003.18637@netcom.com> Sender: bbs@cellar.org (The Cellar BBS) Organization: The Cellar BBS and public access system Lines: 34 Compare and Contrast: Posted November 23, 1992: sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer) writes: > > The only good Grey is a DEAD Grey! They're vicious, woman-raping, > child-eating varmints! > From "Hangin' with Zontar on the Grassy Knoll" by Brian Siano, _The Humanist_, Nov./Dec. 1992, and on the stands since Oct. 1: "Aliens have to put up with a lot of prejudice these days. UFOlogists have dubbed then "Greys" because of their skin color-- they don't even try to use the more politically correct "Ashen Americans." And then there's those rotten stereotypes. _All_ aliens abduct humans for medical experiments. _All_ aliens enjoy mutilating cattle. Those Greys are _taking over our country_ with their superior technology. Their spaceships are smaller, faster, and more fuel-efficient than ours. The Greys are crafty, sinister, telepathic, inscrutable, and they all look alike. The Greys want our _women_." ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Brian "Rev. P-K" Siano revpk@cellar.org Servo: "Dianetics, by L. Ron Hubbard." Joel: "Why is my life messed up? Page 74." Servo: "When will this movie end? Page 155." Crow: "How much money can we get out of Tom Cruise? Page 85." "Mystery Science Theater 3000," during a volcano scene in "Hercules and the Moon Men." Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!spool.mu.edu!agate!garnet.berkeley.edu!ksanthan From: ksanthan@garnet.berkeley.edu (Kumaran Santhanam) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Who believes? Date: 29 Nov 1992 06:37:13 GMT Organization: University of California, Berkeley Lines: 16 Message-ID: <1f9oepINNjsi@agate.berkeley.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: garnet.berkeley.edu Just a question: Who really believes that we are being visited by aliens? I would like to gather more facts on the subject as well as weird information about the ancient world and such. Here's one to start it off: The Great Pyramid lies exactly on top of the center of gravity of the Earth's continents. Not only that, but also if you multiply the height of the Great Pyramid by 10^9, you get the mean distance between the Earth and the Sun. As a side note, the Area divided by twice the Height equals to PI. ***************************************************************************** * Kumaran Santhanam ksanthan@garnet.berkeley.edu * ***************************************************************************** * "DOS is nothing more than a boot sector virus" - Anonymous * ***************************************************************************** Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!uunet!uunet.ca!hombas!joseph.daniels From: joseph.daniels@homebase.com (Joseph Daniels) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Vallee Message-ID: <2010.479.uupcb@homebase.com> Date: 28 Nov 92 23:14:00 GMT Distribution: world Organization: Home Base BBS - St. Thomas, Ontario - 519-633-7253 Reply-To: joseph.daniels@homebase.com (Joseph Daniels) Lines: 22 To: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin) From: joseph.daniels@homebase.com (Joseph Daniels) MC|I disagree with your assessment of what Vallee is trying to say. That can b |part of it, for example the discovery of the UMMO-cult being part of an east |bloc intelligence network. `------------------------------------------------------------------------- Well, I think it's a well established fact that the intelligence community keeps close tabs on all UFO groups. Seems to me that in his last book he thought UFOs where a phsycic phenomenon. You're are right, there seems to be a lot of "freaks and weirdos" in the field, but are they "real" or are they intelligence agents spreading dis-information and making the entire study of UFOs a laughing matter, a stance the US has taken since the '50s? --- . SLMR 2.1a . Klaatu Barada Nikto! Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12983 alt.alien.visitors:11443 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!uunet!uunet.ca!hombas!joseph.daniels From: joseph.daniels@homebase.com (Joseph Daniels) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Underground Base Message-ID: <2011.479.uupcb@homebase.com> Date: 28 Nov 92 23:23:00 GMT Distribution: world Organization: Home Base BBS - St. Thomas, Ontario - 519-633-7253 Reply-To: joseph.daniels@homebase.com (Joseph Daniels) Lines: 56 To:John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com From: joseph.daniels@homebase.com JO|Dear Folks: At the present time I am making up a group to go into |the underground city in Death Valley. `----------------------------------------------------------------- THE BILL COOPER BRIEFING from the book "Revelations" by Jacques Vallee WHAT HAPPENED TO THE ALIEN THAT WAS CAPTURED? - Jacque Vallee He died in 1952 after being ill for one year. The government tried to save him. They broadcast messages into space, asking that his people come and help. The result of that was the Holloman landing, on April 25, 1964, when another Alien came to work with our scientists. He gave us lots of information. The Aliens were desperate to have their presence on Earth kept secret. We agreed to that, in exchange for their technology. The Aliens were given permission to conduct abductions. They said they needed to do them on medical grounds. They were supposed to give MJ-12 the list of the humans they abducted. Then we began to realize they lied to us. - Bill Cooper WHERE ARE THE ALIENS NOW? At Area-51. Everybody thinks it is under control of the Air Force, because it's at Nellis Air Force Base in Nevada. But in reality Area-51 is under the Navy. The Navy has operational control of field activities on this project. That also includes Area-2, which was originally built as an underground storage area for the Atomic Energy Commission. - Cooper WHAT ABOUT GROOM LAKE? Groom Lake is at Nellis, same thing. There is an Alien Technical Group at Nellis, and there is another one near Dulce, New Mexico, on an Indian reservation. - Cooper HOW DO WE KNOW THAT'S TRUE? That's what the documents stated. It turns out there is a large magnetic anomaly where the base is. Perhaps ground-penetrating radar would show what's inside, allegedly it is all honeycombed with tunnels. The document explains how to get in, where the doors are. - Cooper IS IT GUARDED? No, it's not guarded. That would only attract attention, they would have to explain what it is. But once you go in, you never come out. I can take you there if you want. - Cooper --- . SLMR 2.1a . Mulroney has the gift of GRAB! Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!tdonnell From: tdonnell@portal.hq.videocart.com (Tim Donnelly) Subject: Bette Davis toddler? Message-ID: Organization: VideOcart Inc. X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3 Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1992 03:18:04 GMT Lines: 9 Where did you find this information about the Bette Davis look alike toddler? It sounds like it is right from the pages of the Enquirer! The idea, and subject, of a past life introducing itself in a new one is very interesting. However, I find it difficult to accept or interpret this story the way it is presented. It sounds like propaganda. Matthew Marsh Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!tdonnell From: tdonnell@portal.hq.videocart.com (Tim Donnelly) Subject: Re: UFO March on Washington Message-ID: Organization: VideOcart Inc. X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3 References: <1f2sndINN5k7@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1992 03:44:00 GMT Lines: 23 Regarding the UFO march to demand disclosure of information... I would really like to believe that a march, a demand, or anything short of cracking the CIA/Government safes would make a difference. I am very frustrated, and have to wonder whats going on, with all of the obviouscover ups. However, I almost have to throw my hands up and give up on the hopes of finding any REAL truth from the government. If they do "release" anything, it is only going to be another piece of conspiracy. Two good examples would be the JFK and Vietnam/POW issues. The government realizes one day that even the "dumb" citizens are beginning to see through poorly planned cover ups so they announce an "uncovering" of hidden information, which we all draw to like flies, crying "Finally!". We only end up further bluffed. They just did this with this big exploration in Vietnam saying that they have confirmed that all POWs are definitely dead and gone. They even want to award Vietnam for their assistance! I know this is not a very constructive attitude. But it does say one thing: we really need to explore completely different routes to find the truth. Matthew Marsh Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12984 alt.alien.visitors:11446 alt.religion.kibology:4918 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!tdonnell From: tdonnell@portal.hq.videocart.com (Tim Donnelly) Subject: Re: Bigfootf spaceman? Message-ID: Organization: VideOcart Inc. X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3 References: <70364@cup.portal.com> Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1992 03:49:33 GMT Lines: 11 Anyone want to throw in some insight into the swimming sea monsters such as Lockness, Lake Champlain, etcetera? I believe we are dealing with the same species through out some large lakes. A number of questions come to mind though: Did others in the other lakes eventually die off? Are they truly prehistoric? How do they elude such extensive, modern day searching/monitoring? Matthew Marsh Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!uwm.edu!psuvax1!rutgers!ub!csn!scicom!paranet!p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Michael.Corbin From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: ParaNet Directory Message-ID: <141247.2B18318B@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Date: 29 Nov 92 01:38:01 GMT Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26) Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/428.0 - References: <1f9oepINNjsi@agate.berkeley.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: punisher.caltech.edu ksanthan@garnet.berkeley.edu (Kumaran Santhanam) writes: >Just a question: Who really believes that we are being visited by aliens? >I would like to gather more facts on the subject as well as weird information >about the ancient world and such. >Here's one to start it off: >The Great Pyramid lies exactly on top of the center of gravity of the Earth's >continents. Not only that, but also if you multiply the height of the Great >Pyramid by 10^9, you get the mean distance between the Earth and the Sun. As >a side note, the Area divided by twice the Height equals to PI. Wow! That all *is* pretty amazing. (heh heh) keith Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!torn!watserv2.uwaterloo.ca!mach1!kfisher3 From: kfisher3@mach1.wlu.ca (kevin fisher U) Subject: Re: Who believes? X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6] References: <1f9oepINNjsi@agate.berkeley.edu> Message-ID: Organization: Wilfrid Laurier University Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1992 16:41:17 GMT Lines: 25 Kumaran Santhanam (ksanthan@garnet.berkeley.edu) wrote: : Just a question: Who really believes that we are being visited by aliens? : I would like to gather more facts on the subject as well as weird information : about the ancient world and such. : : Here's one to start it off: : : The Great Pyramid lies exactly on top of the center of gravity of the Earth's : continents. Not only that, but also if you multiply the height of the Great : Pyramid by 10^9, you get the mean distance between the Earth and the Sun. As : a side note, the Area divided by twice the Height equals to PI. : How about this one: How was the Iron Pillar in Delhi made? The thing never rusts, contains no phosphors or sulpher. They say it can't be accurately dated, but is in the area of 1000+ years old. The question: How can any 'primitive' society sculpt an iron pillar that WILL NOT RUST (something I imagine would be very difficult to do today)?? -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Kevin Fisher ><> | "Thank you. You can't believe everything you kfisher3@mach1.wlu.ca | see and hear, can you?" - Hendrix, 'EXP' ________________________________________________________________________________ Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!news.service.uci.edu!ucivax!news.claremont.edu!nntp-server.caltech.edu!keith From: keith@cco.caltech.edu (Keith Allan Schneider) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Who believes? Date: 29 Nov 1992 17:21:27 GMT Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena Lines: 14 Message-ID: <1fau6nINNcm1@gap.caltech.edu> References: <1f9oepINNjsi@agate.berkeley.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: punisher.caltech.edu kfisher3@mach1.wlu.ca (kevin fisher U) writes: >How was the Iron Pillar in Delhi made? The thing never rusts, contains no >phosphors or sulpher. They say it can't be accurately dated, but is in the >area of 1000+ years old. The question: How can any 'primitive' society >sculpt an iron pillar that WILL NOT RUST (something I imagine would be very >difficult to do today)?? Iron rusts. If the pillar doesn't rust, then it isn't iron (or else it is painted of coated with something). We can make alloys today (such as stainless steel) that don't rust, but they aren't iron. keith Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!think.com!yale.edu!jvnc.net!darwin.sura.net!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!csus.edu!netcom.com!rkrouse From: rkrouse@netcom.com (Robert K. Rouse) Subject: Re: About John Winston and others ... Message-ID: <1992Nov29.175551.17986@netcom.com> Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) References: <11218@uqcspe.cs.uq.oz.au> Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1992 17:55:51 GMT Lines: 19 I personally enjoy the input of John Winston to this group and his ideas don't seem strange at all. I've read many of the things he discusses in books you can find in used book stores or from UFO contact notes. I'm glad that he is spreading this information. It is still the choice of the reader of what or what not to believe. I'm not afraid to hear any idea or theory no matter the source. -- ============================================================ "No creature that is intelligent and with the right values is an alien to me." John Salter ============================================================ Robert K. Rouse rkrouse@netcom.com ============================================================ Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!csus.edu!netcom.com!payner From: payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne) Subject: Re: About John Winston and others ... Message-ID: <1992Nov29.180321.18976@netcom.com> Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) References: <11218@uqcspe.cs.uq.oz.au> <1992Nov29.175551.17986@netcom.com> Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1992 18:03:21 GMT Lines: 27 In article <1992Nov29.175551.17986@netcom.com> rkrouse@netcom.com (Robert K. Rouse) writes: > I personally enjoy the input of John Winston to this group >and his ideas don't seem strange at all. I've read many >of the things he discusses in books you can find in >used book stores or from UFO contact notes. I'm glad that >he is spreading this information. It is still the choice >of the reader of what or what not to believe. I'm not >afraid to hear any idea or theory no matter the source. There is always the matter of inappropriate newsgroups. Many topics John responds to are cross-posted to sci.skeptic, alt.origins, and many other newsgroups where they do not belong. Posting from Portal, John cannot change the newsgroups line, but it would seem beyond his knowledge even then. >============================================================ > Robert K. Rouse rkrouse@netcom.com >============================================================ Rich payner@netcom.com Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!caen!spool.mu.edu!agate!ames!network.ucsd.edu!rutgers!igor.rutgers.edu!dropout.rutgers.edu!mcgrew From: mcgrew@dropout.rutgers.edu (Charles Mcgrew) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: UFO March on Washington Message-ID: Date: 29 Nov 92 18:56:55 GMT References: <1f2sndINN5k7@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J. Lines: 15 tdonnell@portal.hq.videocart.com (Tim Donnelly) writes: ...I know this is not a very constructive attitude. I'll say. You might want to let the folks at CAUS know about this too, so they can stop wasting their time... But it does say one thing: we really need to explore completely different routes to find the truth. ... do you have something in mind? How exactly are you going to find out about a cover up without interacting with the group doing your coverup? Charles Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!spool.mu.edu!news.cs.indiana.edu!noose.ecn.purdue.edu!ford.ecn.purdue.edu!unglenie From: unglenie@ford.ecn.purdue.edu (Robert J Unglenieks) Subject: Re: Who believes? Message-ID: <1992Nov29.200054.8504@noose.ecn.purdue.edu> Sender: news@noose.ecn.purdue.edu (USENET news) Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network References: <1f9oepINNjsi@agate.berkeley.edu> Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1992 20:00:54 GMT Lines: 30 Kumaran Santhanam writes: >Just a question: Who really believes that we are being visited by aliens? Not me. >The Great Pyramid lies exactly on top of the center of gravity of the Earth's >continents. Isn't the center of gravity of the continents in the earth's interior? Unless you're talking about from a flat map. But then what projection scheme is used? The earth is round you know....... >Not only that, but also if you multiply the height of the Great >Pyramid by 10^9, you get the mean distance between the Earth and the Sun. To what accuracy? I could pick any object in my living room and multiply by some factor like 10^10 or 10^11 and do a pretty good job of getting the mean distance between the earth and the sun. >As a side note, the Area divided by twice the Height equals to PI. If the Egyptians used large rolling disks to measure distances for the sides of the pyramids, then PI automatically enters into any calculations..... Rob U -- - Rob Unglenieks REAL race cars DON'T wear BOWTIES - - "It is the foreign element that commits our crimes. There is no - - native criminal class except Congress." [Samuel Langhorne Clemens] - - (Don't look at me, I DIDN'T vote for Clinton. Will Engineer For Food) - Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12985 alt.alien.visitors:11455 sci.skeptic:34990 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!wupost!emory!gatech!ncar!noao!amethyst!organpipe.uug.arizona.edu!argon!corleyj From: corleyj@argon.gas.uug.arizona.edu (Jason D Corley ) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Alien Ships. Message-ID: <1992Nov29.195552.13952@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu> Date: 29 Nov 92 19:55:52 GMT References: <1992Nov25.114326.1797@dct.ac.uk> <1992Nov25.192638.16482@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu> <1992Nov26.101436.1848@dct.ac.uk> Sender: news@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu Organization: University of Arizona, Tucson, AZ Lines: 46 In article <1992Nov26.101436.1848@dct.ac.uk> mcsdc1al@dct.ac.uk writes: >In article <1992Nov25.192638.16482@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu>, corleyj@helium.gas.uug.arizona.edu (Jason D Corley ) writes: >> In article <1992Nov25.114326.1797@dct.ac.uk> mcsdc1al@dct.ac.uk writes: >>>In article , pashdown@javelin.sim.es.com (Pete Ashdown) writes: >> Look, the whole Hollow Earth theory is completely ludicrous. If >> indeed the Earth is hollow, then how do you explain its gravitational >> activity, calculated to several dozen decimal places with several >> dozen objects? We can measure the force of gravity and from that >> we can get the mass of the Earth. If the Earth is hollow, then >> the force of gravity would be less...but it isn't, so it ain't. >> Hate to be the shriveled carrot under your peach cobbler, but the >> world ain't hollow and there ain't nobody inside. >>> > >No one said the Earth is hollow. That would be a ludicrous thing to suggest >because we know it to be untrue. What I was really suggesting was that there >is a possibility that there are undiscovered species on this planet, maybe even >ancestors to Homo Sapiens that have evolved differently through enviromental >change. There's no reason at all why there couldn't be a thousand species of >animal living hundreds of miles below the Earth's surface. > > > > The pyramids were built by aliens aided by the Egyptians, using sound to >construct them. > The Nazca lines were ORIGINALLY runways for UFOs. After alien activity >and research in the area stopped the Nazca indians added to the lines creating >pictures in the plains. They even learned how to fly from the aliens allowing >them to see their work. 1. We do not know for sure that there is no underground "differently-\ evolved" (how's THAT for political correctness?), that is true. Please reference the other follow-ups from people who pointed out, correctly, that if you make this claim, you must have proof. 2. I'm sorry. If you feel that THEY will get you if you post about the pyramids or the Nazca lines, and therefore remain silent, then I have no choice but to brand you a psychotic and return to believing the logical and extensively researched anthropological standpoint, which is that people build the Pyramids and the Nazca lines, and that they did it themselves, with nothing but ingenuity, slaves, and theological clarity. Did I mention hard work? OK, hard work too. What you say may or may not be true, but unless you can prove it, I have no choice but to assume it is untrue. Jason Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12986 alt.alien.visitors:11456 sci.skeptic:34991 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!ira.uka.de!rz.uni-karlsruhe.de!stepsun.uni-kl.de!sun.rhrk.uni-kl.de!efes.physik.uni-kl.de!kring From: kring@efes.physik.uni-kl.de (Thomas Kettenring) Subject: Re: Alien Ships. Message-ID: <1992Nov29.193305.1337@rhrk.uni-kl.de> Sender: news@rhrk.uni-kl.de Organization: FB Physik, Universitaet Kaiserslautern, Germany References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <70056@cup.portal.com> <1992Nov26.031734.6608@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> <1992Nov26.200619.1902@dct.ac.uk> Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1992 19:33:05 GMT Lines: 28 In article <1992Nov26.200619.1902@dct.ac.uk>, mcsdc1al@dct.ac.uk writes: >In article <1992Nov26.031734.6608@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>, mporter@nyx.cs.du.edu (Mitchell Porter) writes: >>mcsdc1al@dct.ac.uk writes: >>>While I would have to question the Aldeberon thing, there can be little >doubt >> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^! > >THERE IS NO DOUBT. > > >>>that the pyramids in Egypt, along with The Nazca Pl >ains, are evidence of the >>>existence of extraterrestrial life. OK, now we know that you don't doubt it, and that you are CONVINCED in capital letters. That means you either have very good evidence or you're closed-minded... > I will not disclose my full knowledge on the net. > Why don't you e-mail me and I might fill you in. Don't fill him in! He's from the CIA, I know him! :-) (Is there another possible reason for not posting it, beside paranoia?) -- thomas kettenring, 3 dan, kaiserslautern, germany "Every three months I tell all of the new recruits that they are supposed to stand here and not there to get their uniforms, but they just don't learn!" Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12987 alt.alien.visitors:11457 sci.skeptic:34992 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!ira.uka.de!rz.uni-karlsruhe.de!stepsun.uni-kl.de!sun.rhrk.uni-kl.de!efes.physik.uni-kl.de!kring From: kring@efes.physik.uni-kl.de (Thomas Kettenring) Subject: Re: Alien Ships. Message-ID: <1992Nov29.193839.1446@rhrk.uni-kl.de> Sender: news@rhrk.uni-kl.de Organization: FB Physik, Universitaet Kaiserslautern, Germany References: <1992Nov25.192638.16482@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu> <1992Nov26.111000.23147@ntb.ch> <1992Nov27.094921.1915@dct.ac.uk> Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1992 19:38:39 GMT Lines: 15 In article <1992Nov27.094921.1915@dct.ac.uk>, mcsdc1al@dct.ac.uk writes: >In article <1992Nov26.111000.23147@ntb.ch>, milsom@ntb.ch (Paul Milsom) writes: >>The pyramids were not built by slaves, but by paid workers. The construction >>is well documented and understood. No aliens are mentioned. > >Of course aliens aren't mentined in any documentation. Just the same as alien >intervention in WW2 and Vietnam has never been widely documented. I guess almost everybody will agree with you that the reason for not mentioning them is the same in all of these cases... -- thomas kettenring, 3 dan, kaiserslautern, germany ...and then the dragon ate the princess and the knight, and he lived happily ever after. -- Grandma Addams telling Wednesday a story (paraphrased) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!csus.edu!netcom.com!payner From: payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne) Subject: Re: Who believes? Message-ID: <1992Nov29.202117.28419@netcom.com> Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) References: <1f9oepINNjsi@agate.berkeley.edu> <1fau6nINNcm1@gap.caltech.edu> Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1992 20:21:17 GMT Lines: 28 In article <1fau6nINNcm1@gap.caltech.edu> keith@cco.caltech.edu (Keith Allan Schneider) writes: >kfisher3@mach1.wlu.ca (kevin fisher U) writes: > >>How was the Iron Pillar in Delhi made? The thing never rusts, contains no >>phosphors or sulpher. They say it can't be accurately dated, but is in the >>area of 1000+ years old. The question: How can any 'primitive' society >>sculpt an iron pillar that WILL NOT RUST (something I imagine would be very >>difficult to do today)?? > >Iron rusts. If the pillar doesn't rust, then it isn't iron (or else it is >painted of coated with something). We can make alloys today (such as >stainless steel) that don't rust, but they aren't iron. Also there is the minor point that the pillar is in the middle (figuratively speaking), and iron has little tendancy to rust in the absense of water. Desert artifacts exported to foreign cities often weather more in 20 years than they did in several thousand years of desert exposure. >keith Rich payner@netcom.com Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12988 alt.alien.visitors:11459 sci.skeptic:34993 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: <70509@cup.portal.com> Date: Sun, 29 Nov 92 07:52:03 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> Lines: 58 Subject: Do You Ever Wonder If You Are A Wanderer? Do you ever feel like this earth is not your home? Are you looking for something different. Well friend your not crazy. There could be a reason for that. So listen up and maybe we can find out the reason for your condition. First of all let me state your not crazy, the world is crazy. If you think what we consider to be normal normal in this world is normal then in my oppinion you should see a psychiatrist and as you know anyone who goes and sees a psychiatrist should have his or her head examined. We now will talk about two groups of undercover (so to speak) Space Brothers known as Star People and Wanderers. Both of these groups are extra-terrestrial beings, who have entered our incarnational cycle, to assist with the transformation into the Aquarian Age. The Space People and Wanderers are not native to our planet Earth, neither is any soul which is associated with the Earth at this time, or in times past. Each of us is on our own path, which we have chosen, it is just some of us are rebelling against who we are and we're not making progress. The idea of Star People was introduced by a book with the same title by Brad and Francie Steiger, in mid 1970's. Now that book is part of a five book series, Called the Star People Series. The other books are: "Revelation: The Divine Fire"; Gods of Aquarius"; "Reflectiions from an Angel's Eye" and "The Seed". The information on Star People, basically came through Mr. Steiger's search for paranormal phenomenon, since he is a author of over 200 books. He discovered, by working with individuals through regressional hypnosis, that certain people volunteered to come to the Earth, to spiritually uplift the planet, and had another world/dimension in the universe they called home. He discovered that the Star People were basically two kinds, Star Helpers, or eathlings who assisted the Star Seed in their work and Star Seed, which would be the extra-terrestrial souls volunteering to work here, to help create the Golden Age. In order for the Star Person to operate effectively on earth, they had to be disguised as a normal type of earthling, thus they had a regular bitth, just like anyone else. When they incarnated into the Earth, they had to obey the rules and regualtions of the earth, which included having a memory veil placed over their conciousness, where they totally forget their Star Heritage, so they can function as Earth people. Much of the work to help tranform our earth, requires helpers in the material levels, to be examples of the Light and Truth, so many volunteered. Mr. Steiger discovered in his analysis that many Star Seed had certain physical weaknesses or spiritual experiences. The physical ailments are due to the fact that the vibratory rate on their home worlds is much greater than the earth, thus the spirit of the Star Seed can not exactly fit in the gross level of earth bodies. In the Star People book, there is a very comprehensive list of physical/personality attributes. A few of these conditions include: Compelling eyes; lower than normal body temperature; an unexpected child (i.e,-Star Seed who wanted to get down here in a hurry); chronic sinusitis; hypersensitivity to electricity or electro-maagnetic forcefields; experinece a buzzing or audio tone in the ears prior to a psychic-spiritual event or warning of danger; have flying dreams; children and animals attracted to you; felt earth mother /father not real parents, had unseen companions as child, etc... The Star Seed usually learn of their identity through a series of spiritual experiences, or synchronicity, which activates their memory. But as Dr. Puharich mentioned at the Star People Festival, a very many Star Seed become depressed because they miss their homes and find the Earth life so difficult. However, this helps in another way for them to understand the conditions of their brothers and sisters here on Earth. So this is me (JW) talking. Are you or aren't you? It takes one to know one. End Part 1. John Winston. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12989 alt.alien.visitors:11460 alt.religion.kibology:4924 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology Subject: Good Message-ID: <70512@cup.portal.com> Date: Sun, 29 Nov 92 09:00:56 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) Distribution: world References: <67397@cup.portal.com> Lines: 69 Subject: The Man From Merry Ole England. We have been fooling around talking about Monsters and other things. I thought it was about time I to throw you people a bone with some meat on it and see how you do. At the present time there is a person from England who has come over here to the USA and is really showing us how to investigate UFOs. He seems to have the ability to cut through the unimportant information, the politics, religion and get down to the real truth. This illustrious man's name is Timothy Good and he is a researcher from London. He has been investigating the field of UFOs for 30 years. He has traveled the world as symphony musician and been privilileged to do resarch and interviews in all corners of the globe. He believes the documents, photos and medical evidence he has seen are so revealing and important that they had to be released to the public. To do so he has authored a book, Above Top Secret, one of the most thorough works of its kind ever attempted ( I haven't read it yet JW.) Good also serves as a magazine consultant. Tim's book looks at animal mutilations and has let him to many parts of the world. He has researched the Russian public investigators, events which they deny ever occurred and counts the number UFO students in China at over 20,000. Timothy Good names names and tells his truth of the UFO-ET picture; human ET/animal experiments, NASA contacts, fakes, a startling theory about George Adamski, norids, the Bible and the world-wide cover up are only part of his findings. Timothy Good's extensive researtch exposes manyu little known details of the UFO Story around the world. Now we go to the latest information about Tim in the news media. World leaders are meeting in secret with aliens from outer space but are afraid to tell us, says a leading expert on extraterrestrials (our man Tim). In fact, goverment officials from the United States, Great Britain, Russia and Australia have entered into an alliance with the aliens. I know from my research that former Soviet Premier Mikhail Gorgbachev discussed the subject with President Reagan at a summit in 1985. The news of alien contact has been withheld by leaders because they fear it might be too difficult to take. It could cause mayhem, particularly as we have reason to believe that some of our great religious leaders are extraterrestrial in origin. They hoope to soften us for the shockiong news with leaked information and disinformation. It appears from descriptions that there is more than one group of aliens-and that some are better disposed towards us than others. There are several different kinds of aliens who visit earth. Some are prgbably tourist, but there are others who have a vested interest in what is going on down here. The aliens are genetically linked with us (that is we may have a common ancestor), and they want to study our development. The aliens are far from infalible or superhuman. Their spaceships have crashed and their crews have been killed and captured. Contact with aliens was made as early a 1947, when a UFO crashed near Magdalena, New Mexico. As a result of the crash, the U.S. came into pocession of two frozen alien bodies, another alien seriously injured and a fourth in good health. U.S. Army Sergeant Melvin E. Brown, asigned to guard a hangar at Magdalena, discovered the two frozen alien bodies aboard a refrigerated truck. They were like humans, but they were not human. The heads were round, the eyes small and they had no hair.,Their eyes were oddly shaped, and they were quite small, with their heads large in proportion to their bodies than ours. Another witness backed up Brown's story, and said he'd seen two dead aliens, another badly injured and one who was unhurt at Magdalena. A third witness, a young boy, who was walking with his family at the time, reported seeing the saucer embedded in the side of a hill and three bodies about 5 feet tall nearby. A fourth creature sitting nearby recoiled in fear like we were going to attack it. All were cautioned by the military to forget what they'd seen. So there you have it. Would a person from England lie? Source of information: International UFO Library Magazine, Vol. 1, No. 3. July 1192. Page 67. Sun - December1, 1992. Page 25 dn 26. John Winston Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!garnet.berkeley.edu!ksanthan From: ksanthan@garnet.berkeley.edu (Kumaran Santhanam) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Strange facts Date: 29 Nov 1992 20:56:08 GMT Organization: University of California, Berkeley Lines: 26 Message-ID: <1fbap8INNnfm@agate.berkeley.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: garnet.berkeley.edu Here's another interesting fact: In the late 1800s a map was found in the possession of a Turkish admiral. This looked in a way like a map of the world, but was extremely distorted. Because of this supposed inaccuracy, the map was given to a museum and left on display. This map was really a copy of a copy of a copy...etc. The real age of the first one is unknown. However, experts have determined that the youngest it could be is late 1700s. Keep in mind that this is the absolute YOUNGEST and the original is thought to be many hundreds if not thousands of years old. Anyway, to get to the point...Nothing was really thought of this map until the late 1950s and early 1960s when satelite photography was invented. Many satelite photographs had been taken of the Earth during this time. Someone had the bright idea to compare this Turkish admiral's map with various satelite photographs. It turns out that the admiral's map matches EXACTLY a satelite photograph taken directly over Cairo, Egypt. This is not all, however. The admiral's map also happens to show the mountain ranges of Antarctica. These mountains can't be seen directly since they are buried under ice and snow. We only knew of their existence when sonar was developed. The person or persons who created this first map had to have done it from a great height (that of a satelite) and also had to have had advance imaging apparatus capable of scanning under the ice of Antarctica. ***************************************************************************** * Kumaran Santhanam ksanthan@garnet.berkeley.edu * ***************************************************************************** * "DOS is nothing more than a boot sector virus" - Anonymous * ***************************************************************************** Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!csus.edu!netcom.com!jeffp From: jeffp@netcom.com (Jeff) Subject: Re: Contact Notes Message-ID: <1992Nov29.203933.29647@netcom.com> Organization: BeHereNow References: <141236.2B16D939@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1992 20:39:33 GMT Lines: 32 In article <141236.2B16D939@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin) writes: >I feel that Vallee is one of the most accurate thinkers studying this field. He is a scientist and has solid credentials. He does not get bogged down in the half-baked pseudo-religious/scientific cult-like thinking so prevalent in the field. He deals with actual case studies and hard data, drawing some theories from that. > >Mike > Athough I do respect Mike and the work he does, even if he doesn't alway return my email;-)... I must disagree with his opinion here, and I am quite vocal about it. Vallee to me, is not to be trusted. I feel it is highly likely that he is an intelligence operative, and that is why his "research" conclusions can be highly contradictory and confusing. When I read his books, I get the impression of a highly logical person that understands compters, with an axe to grind (to persuade and confuse us), who is very narrow minded in his views of the makeup of reality and the possiblilies that "reality" would encompass. I don't trust his opinions for a nanosecond. If you want a believable author, read Goode, Lindemann, Stevens, or Howe. These people impress me as much more open, human, and unconstrained by a "logic" that is entirely anthropromorphic in nature. And, if Cooper is correct, and Project Grudge Report #13 was written by Hynek, then Vallee's early carrer ties with Hynek place his credibilty as highly suspect. Jeff- Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!jnielsen From: jnielsen@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (John F Nielsen) Subject: Re: Strange facts Message-ID: <1992Nov29.211313.20327@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> Sender: news@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Nntp-Posting-Host: magnusug.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Organization: The Ohio State University References: <1fbap8INNnfm@agate.berkeley.edu> Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1992 21:13:13 GMT Lines: 39 In article <1fbap8INNnfm@agate.berkeley.edu> ksanthan@garnet.berkeley.edu (Kumaran Santhanam) writes: >Here's another interesting fact: > >In the late 1800s a map was found in the possession of a Turkish admiral. This >looked in a way like a map of the world, but was extremely distorted. Because >of this supposed inaccuracy, the map was given to a museum and left on display. >This map was really a copy of a copy of a copy...etc. The real age of the first >one is unknown. However, experts have determined that the youngest it could be >is late 1700s. Keep in mind that this is the absolute YOUNGEST and the original >is thought to be many hundreds if not thousands of years old. Anyway, to get to >the point...Nothing was really thought of this map until the late 1950s and >early 1960s when satelite photography was invented. Many satelite photographs >had been taken of the Earth during this time. Someone had the bright idea to >compare this Turkish admiral's map with various satelite photographs. It turns >out that the admiral's map matches EXACTLY a satelite photograph taken directly >over Cairo, Egypt. This is not all, however. The admiral's map also happens to >show the mountain ranges of Antarctica. These mountains can't be seen directly >since they are buried under ice and snow. We only knew of their existence when >sonar was developed. The person or persons who created this first map had to >have done it from a great height (that of a satelite) and also had to have had >advance imaging apparatus capable of scanning under the ice of Antarctica. > >***************************************************************************** >* Kumaran Santhanam ksanthan@garnet.berkeley.edu * >***************************************************************************** >* "DOS is nothing more than a boot sector virus" - Anonymous * >***************************************************************************** What source did you get this from? And who compared the satellite photos? john -- John Nielsen MAGNUS Consultant ______ ______ __ __ jnielsen@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu /\ __ \ /\ ___\ /\ \/\ \ \ \ \/\ \\ \___ \\ \ \_\ \ Back off man, I'm a Scientist! \ \_____\\/\_____\\ \_____\ Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12992 alt.alien.visitors:11464 sci.skeptic:35000 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!torn!nott!cunews!infotax!cerianthus!uuisis!testsys!doug From: doug@testsys.isis.org (Doug Thompson) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Alien Ships. Message-ID: <727193345DN5.62R@testsys.isis.org> Date: Fri, 27 Nov 92 23:01:43 EST References: <70056@cup.portal.com> <1992Nov25.114326.1797@dct.ac.uk> <1992Nov25.192638.16482@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu> <1992Nov26.101436.1848@dct.ac.uk> Reply-To: doug@uuisis.isis.org Distribution: na Organization: DistNet Technical Support Lines: 9 In article <1992Nov26.101436.1848@dct.ac.uk> mcsdc1al@dct.ac.uk writes: > change. There's no reason at all why there couldn't be a thousand species of > animal living hundreds of miles below the Earth's surface. Well, actually there is one reason. It's called *lava* or *magma*. You know, the stuff that comes out of volcanoes? =Doug --- uuisis!testsys!doug Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!garnet.berkeley.edu!ksanthan From: ksanthan@garnet.berkeley.edu (Kumaran Santhanam) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Strange facts Date: 29 Nov 1992 22:34:51 GMT Organization: University of California, Berkeley Lines: 8 Message-ID: <1fbgibINNo2v@agate.berkeley.edu> References: <1fbap8INNnfm@agate.berkeley.edu> <1992Nov29.211313.20327@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: garnet.berkeley.edu I got that tidbit from "Chariots of the Gods" by Erik Von Daniken. I don't know the exact specifics behind it but that is the jist of it. ***************************************************************************** * Kumaran Santhanam ksanthan@garnet.berkeley.edu * ***************************************************************************** * "DOS is nothing more than a boot sector virus" - Anonymous * ***************************************************************************** Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!jnielsen From: jnielsen@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (John F Nielsen) Subject: Re: Strange facts Message-ID: <1992Nov29.224105.20973@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> Sender: news@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Nntp-Posting-Host: magnusug.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Organization: The Ohio State University References: <1fbap8INNnfm@agate.berkeley.edu> <1992Nov29.211313.20327@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> <1fbgibINNo2v@agate.berkeley.edu> Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1992 22:41:05 GMT Lines: 15 Ah, then you don't really know how valid that information is. The problem with a lot of this is that even if all what the people say about the aliens is true, the theories are conviently designed that none of them can be proved or disproved. So, there is no reason why someone should believe you over some other theory. Which then brings the beliefs into the realm of religion not science. And in that realm anything goes. john -- John Nielsen MAGNUS Consultant ______ ______ __ __ jnielsen@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu /\ __ \ /\ ___\ /\ \/\ \ \ \ \/\ \\ \___ \\ \ \_\ \ Back off man, I'm a Scientist! \ \_____\\/\_____\\ \_____\ Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!garnet.berkeley.edu!ksanthan From: ksanthan@garnet.berkeley.edu (Kumaran Santhanam) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Strange facts Date: 29 Nov 1992 22:45:48 GMT Organization: University of California, Berkeley Lines: 11 Message-ID: <1fbh6sINNo6c@agate.berkeley.edu> References: <1992Nov29.211313.20327@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> <1fbgibINNo2v@agate.berkeley.edu> <1992Nov29.224105.20973@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: garnet.berkeley.edu You are right. These tidbits are not perfectly founded on indisputable facts and there is a shadow of doubt. I wish I had more concrete evidence to help substantiate these claims. Hopefully, some day, the evidence will come. In the meantime, though, I think it's interesting to merely ponder these strange and unusual things. ***************************************************************************** * Kumaran Santhanam ksanthan@garnet.berkeley.edu * ***************************************************************************** * "DOS is nothing more than a boot sector virus" - Anonymous * ***************************************************************************** Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cis.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!jnielsen From: jnielsen@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (John F Nielsen) Subject: Re: Strange facts Message-ID: <1992Nov29.225433.21039@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> Sender: news@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Nntp-Posting-Host: magnusug.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Organization: The Ohio State University References: <1fbgibINNo2v@agate.berkeley.edu> <1992Nov29.224105.20973@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> <1fbh6sINNo6c@agate.berkeley.edu> Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1992 22:54:33 GMT Lines: 23 In article <1fbh6sINNo6c@agate.berkeley.edu> ksanthan@garnet.berkeley.edu (Kumaran Santhanam) writes: >You are right. These tidbits are not perfectly founded on indisputable facts >and there is a shadow of doubt. I wish I had more concrete evidence to help >substantiate these claims. Hopefully, some day, the evidence will come. In >the meantime, though, I think it's interesting to merely ponder these strange >and unusual things. > I was never saying they had to be perfectly founded on indisputable facts. Such a thing does not exist. True it may be interesting to read about different theories and fantasize about what could have happened. And, it may even be possible that some of them is true. But, so far none have made any strides above the level of religion. And, as a religion if you have faith in it, then fine. But that does not mean anyone else has to believe you. john -- John Nielsen MAGNUS Consultant ______ ______ __ __ jnielsen@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu /\ __ \ /\ ___\ /\ \/\ \ \ \ \/\ \\ \___ \\ \ \_\ \ Back off man, I'm a Scientist! \ \_____\\/\_____\\ \_____\ Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12994 alt.alien.visitors:11469 alt.religion.kibology:4925 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!spool.mu.edu!agate!dog.ee.lbl.gov!network.ucsd.edu!sdcc12!sdcc13!pashley From: pashley@sdcc13.ucsd.edu (Montykins) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology Subject: Re: Big Bird Message-ID: <41707@sdcc12.ucsd.edu> Date: 29 Nov 92 22:52:16 GMT References: <1992Nov23.182821.2929@dartvax.dartmouth.edu> <70205@cup.portal.com> <70256@cup.portal.com> Sender: news@sdcc12.ucsd.edu Followup-To: talk.religion.newage Organization: University of California, San Diego Lines: 11 Nntp-Posting-Host: sdcc13.ucsd.edu In article <70256@cup.portal.com>, John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >Dear Folks: That should have been insulted. Don't worry, it will be. -Paul "Monty" Ashley (You know what's fun? You take a Casio Keyboard and set it to percussion. Then you watch Comedy Central and make your own rim shots! Oh boy! Do I need a life or _What_?) -- All just the opinions of pashley@sdcc13.ucsd.edu. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!garnet.berkeley.edu!ksanthan From: ksanthan@garnet.berkeley.edu (Kumaran Santhanam) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Strange facts Date: 29 Nov 1992 23:03:29 GMT Organization: University of California, Berkeley Lines: 11 Message-ID: <1fbi81INNoav@agate.berkeley.edu> References: <1992Nov29.224105.20973@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> <1fbh6sINNo6c@agate.berkeley.edu> <1992Nov29.225433.21039@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: garnet.berkeley.edu Don't worry....I'm not asking anybody else to believe it....I'm not sure I really believe it either. However, I think it's interesting to just bring these kinds of things up and gather more unusual information. I'm not much of a believer in faith questions (I'm also atheist). These kinds of facts just intrigue me. ***************************************************************************** * Kumaran Santhanam ksanthan@garnet.berkeley.edu * ***************************************************************************** * "DOS is nothing more than a boot sector virus" - Anonymous * ***************************************************************************** Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!math.fu-berlin.de!news.netmbx.de!zelator!leo From: leo@zelator.in-berlin.de (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Re: Pictures of Alien (Roswell) Organization: Puplic-Access-Xenix-System Date: Sun, 29 Nov 92 02:28:33 GMT Message-ID: <69B9KQF@zelator.in-berlin.de> References: Lines: 40 In peter@stycx.hacktic.nl (Author) writes: >Hi, everyone. I was reading UFO Crash Secrets at Wright/Patterson Air >Force base, by James W. Moseley. On the backcover of this book a picture >apperently of one of the aliens recovered from the crash site. This >picture seems to originate from the late Prof Zigel. At the end of page >82 of that book it is said that recently a third photo of a far superior >quality is circulating among American UFOlogists. >Does anyone have more information on that picture and possibly even has >seen it. Please let me know. >Greetings Peter >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >peter@stycx.hacktic.nl (5W) >Crawling out from the river of darkness into your own private pinball machine >Call STYCX (Waffle 1.65) from 23:00 to 06:00 Central European Time >Number +31-3404-59551 Newkid Intown the nastiest Sysop arround Hi, on 130.231.240.17 in pub/ufo_and_space_pics there is a picture called alien_47.jpg ! This is only a well made doll, but a few UFO freaks stated it was real !! This is the picture that is circulated ! Best regards, Stefan Hartmann, c/o Ingenierbuero Gatz & Hartmann. email to: leo@zelator.in-berlin.de -- ************************************************************* * Stefan Hartmann This is how to contact me: * * EMAIL: leo@zelator.in-berlin.de * * Phone : ++ 49 30 344 23 66 FAX : ++ 49 30 344 92 79 * *************************************************************